I'm swapping my rear coils to leafs, i know what you guys think about that and i should buy a yj, four link it, blah blah blah. I was wondering what i should do as far as performance and ride? Sua or soa? Thanks for the input!!!

SOA with 5.5" BDS lift springs. Level the front out with lift blocks. /facepalm

well i'm not wanting that much lift. i wanna keep it low.

well i'm not wanting that much lift. i wanna keep it low.

me thinks that was sarcasm.

SOA without the lift kit typically nets about 5.5", plus or minus spring sag due to wear and tear. Also a shackle flip would help soften the ride a bit, as the axle would be able to move back and up.

Remember in your particular scenario the net lift is the sum of the thickness of your axle tube, spring pack, and sping perches.

You might experience some axle wrap (aka spring wrap), but is correctable with a stinger type arm to keep the axle from twisting under load. Nth Degree makes a stinger that is designed specifically to treat axle wrap.

I think blocks on the front axle is not the way to go as it drastically increases bump steer and pinion rotation when under a load. As the pinion is rotated up under a load the caster will change to a more negative value which would reduce handling, especially under full articulation. Sure, you could correct for this by lowering the pinion angle so that under load the caster is within acceptable tolerances, but then you have to worry about driveline vibrations.

My advice would be to level the front with shackles and correct the steering geometry with a properly adjusted drag link, track bar, and drop pitman arm.

why are we talking bout steering and front tech when he wants to swap REAR coils to leafs? or did i miss somethin? and why does he immediately get flamed for mentioning swapping in rear leafs? i see ALOT of buggies and truggies with rear leafs and front coils, mostly IMO cuz so much time n cash goes into makin the front flex mad (with bulletproof steering) that by the time u get to the rear u just go with dirt simple. to the OP, go soa out back, with a GOOD traction bar. take stock leafs, add a main, and get 5.5" from it. it will flex real nice, and with a solid traction bar, the springs will live. i personally love to see tj's with leafs, lets me know we dont all need cushy/car ride jeeps :flipoff2:

why are we talking bout steering and front tech when he wants to swap REAR coils to leafs? or did i miss somethin? and why does he immediately get flamed for mentioning swapping in rear leafs? i see ALOT of buggies and truggies with rear leafs and front coils, mostly IMO cuz so much time n cash goes into makin the front flex mad (with bulletproof steering) that by the time u get to the rear u just go with dirt simple. to the OP, go soa out back, with a GOOD traction bar. take stock leafs, add a main, and get 5.5" from it. it will flex real nice, and with a solid traction bar, the springs will live. i personally love to see tj's with leafs, lets me know we dont all need cushy/car ride jeeps :flipoff2:

Because he started a thread earlier asking if he should replace the coils in the rear, and after pretty much the whole site told him it was a bad idea and counter productive.

Because most buggies haven't used leaf springs since....the mid 90s?

Because leafs in the rear suck compared to a proper 4-link coiled setup

Because you have it backwards and tons of fine jeeps use leafs in the front and coil the rear to keep the front simple because the steering linkages unless you are running full hydro bind the suspension flex anyways. And because a 4-link coiled setup puts nearly all of its power to the road instead of the parasitic power loss from leaf springs.

And because if he searched he would find so much info on this topic he would be reading for days...... ;)

why are we talking bout steering and front tech when he wants to swap REAR coils to leafs? or did i miss somethin? and why does he immediately get flamed for mentioning swapping in rear leafs? i see ALOT of buggies and truggies with rear leafs and front coils, mostly IMO cuz so much time n cash goes into makin the front flex mad (with bulletproof steering) that by the time u get to the rear u just go with dirt simple. to the OP, go soa out back, with a GOOD traction bar. take stock leafs, add a main, and get 5.5" from it. it will flex real nice, and with a solid traction bar, the springs will live. i personally love to see tj's with leafs, lets me know we dont all need cushy/car ride jeeps :flipoff2:

He got flamed because he posted this same shit last week, and it was determined that he doesn't need to go to leafs, and he sure as shit doesn't need to go SOA. ..and he doesn't search for himself about anything. ...and his screen name is 'jeeps4jesus.' Isn't that enough?

He got flamed because he posted this same shit last week, and it was determined that he doesn't need to go to leafs, and he sure as shit doesn't need to go SOA. ..and he doesn't search for himself about anything. ...and his screen name is 'jeeps4jesus.' Isn't that enough?

why is my screen name being assaulted here? does it bother you that i profess to be a follower of Christ? if you have a problem with my Jesus take it up with Him and i promise if you search you'll be forever changed. just like if i searched here i would be probably be more knowledgeable. I do know that i asked about running leafs a few weeks ago, i have never asked about SOA compared to SUA. we are all interested in the same thing as a hobby, so why not be more helpful for the better of the sport. if my posts bother you so much then don't read them and if you have nothing informative to say then don't post.

i would honestly love to 4 link the rear but i don't even no where to begin to start that. i sure don't want to have to spend 2 grand or more on a system from clayton, bds, re, etc. i want to keep a lcg and i don't know anything about the 4 link setup. i like the leafs because it is cheap and i only wheel my jeep if i'm lucky 4 or 5 times a year because i'm constantly offshore.

why is my screen name being assaulted here? does it bother you that i profess to be a follower of Christ? if you have a problem with my Jesus take it up with Him and i promise if you search you'll be forever changed. just like if i searched here i would be probably be more knowledgeable. I do know that i asked about running leafs a few weeks ago, i have never asked about SOA compared to SUA. we are all interested in the same thing as a hobby, so why not be more helpful for the better of the sport. if my posts bother you so much then don't read them and if you have nothing informative to say then don't post.

i would honestly love to 4 link the rear but i don't even no where to begin to start that. i sure don't want to have to spend 2 grand or more on a system from clayton, bds, re, etc. i want to keep a lcg and i don't know anything about the 4 link setup. i like the leafs because it is cheap and i only wheel my jeep if i'm lucky 4 or 5 times a year because i'm constantly offshore.


I won't get into the blue in the tech forum, feel free to search out these conversations in ChitChat if you really give a shit about my relationship with your Jesus.

As for the red, THIS is why you don't get your answers. SEARCH.

LucasFury is the tough guy of the newbie forum. :flipoff2:

wow. so much for "the only stupid question is the one not asked". and to the think i come to this forum for answers to my questions. hey guys did u ever stop to think if ppl didnt ask these questions, your holy grail of a SEARCH function would be completely useless? its not like he asked "is my dana35 axle good for wheelin?". so he asked b4, and everyone told him not to do it. but he wants to do it cuz its dirt simply cheap and he knows how (unlike the coveted 4 link). why cant we just answer his question instead of chastising him cuz its not what u all would do? maybe it makes no sense to u, but i dont know a fawkin thing bout 4 links either, except that i dont want one cuz i dont have the equipment to do it. on my junk, if i cant do it(due to money or skills), it doesnt get done. btw, i dont back him cuz of jesus, i havent been to church since my mom made me go. im probably making myself the a$$hole of this forum, but thats ok. no one else has a problem expressing their opinion.

wow. so much for "the only stupid question is the one not asked". and to the think i come to this forum for answers to my questions. hey guys did u ever stop to think if ppl didnt ask these questions, your holy grail of a SEARCH function would be completely useless? its not like he asked "is my dana35 axle good for wheelin?". so he asked b4, and everyone told him not to do it. but he wants to do it cuz its dirt simply cheap and he knows how (unlike the coveted 4 link). why cant we just answer his question instead of chastising him cuz its not what u all would do? maybe it makes no sense to u, but i dont know a fawkin thing bout 4 links either, except that i dont want one cuz i dont have the equipment to do it. on my junk, if i cant do it(due to money or skills), it doesnt get done. btw, i dont back him cuz of jesus, i havent been to church since my mom made me go. im probably making myself the a$$hole of this forum, but thats ok. no one else has a problem expressing their opinion.

. <-------- You see that dot? Thats the world's smallest violin and its playing a sad tune for this failure of a thread.

You have been here long enough to know better by now. The SUA vs SOA debate has been hashed out numerous times. This may be the non-hardcore forum, but this is still pirate4x4, not jeepsunlimited and it is considered college level wheeling. Hence this guy needs to take some fucking responsibility and initiative and do some of the leg work and research himself.

And lets look at this logically for a second.

SOA reguires
-Welder
-cutting tools, grinders and or torches
-measuring tape
-angle finder
-basic understanding of geometry

4-link requires
-Welder
-cutting tools, grinders and or torches
-measuring tape
-angle finder
-basic understanding of geometry

One may seem harder then the other but its not. If you can use a measuring tape and weld, then you can 4-link your junk. Oh and being the asshole on this forum doesn't mean you are the guy that just happens to voice their opinions. Alot of guys do that here, some are right, some are wrong, some are just that....opinions. The assholes tell people what they need to hear and correct info, because its the right thing to do, even while taking grenades from a bunch of people who don't know anybetter and going against the "Populist Mob". Trust me I know.

If hes gonna go SOA then his rig will sit way to high in the rear to match any type of short arm lift in the front. Hence if he goes SOA in the rear he will have to go SOA or Long arm in the front. If he goes SOA he will need a new driveshaft, SYE, etc etc. The cost snowballs quickly past just doing a long arm in the first place because now you have to adress the front too, either setup will cost ALOT of cash.

If he goes SUA in the rear then theres no point in not using any of the quality short arm lift kits on the market that don't require any cutting or welding as they are entirely bolt on.

If he uses ANY leaf spring in the rear, he will need to run a trac bar to avoid wheel hop, something that anybody running leafs that perform worth a damn has had to deal with. Oh and those cost more money, cutting and welding...

If he goes a long arm kit, he can still leave entire front end alone and just use a lower lift spring in the rear until hes ready. And there are entire bolt on Long arm kits on the market.

And hence why the whole forum told him, its not worth it to go from coils to leafs and why nobody except me (because I'm sick at the moment with the flu) has spent anymore then a minute or two replying to this thread. The OP probably already left this forum, not that I blame him, more then likely hes not ready to be here in the first place and went to find some hack over on JU to agree with him and provide him his mis-information.

no i'm still here and after reading the previous post i'm going to look more into the 4 link. thanks for the all the info!

LucasFury is the tough guy of the newbie forum. :flipoff2:

Hah! I should sigline that. I bet I'd catch a ton of shit from the tough guys of the hardcore forum, haha.


no i'm still here and after reading the previous post i'm going to look more into the 4 link. thanks for the all the info!

Everything BlackSheep said is true, and is exactly the reason I gave you shit. ..You're making the right choice with the additional research.

if my posts bother you so much then don't read them and if you have nothing informative to say then don't post.


Hey man, I am going to help you..I checked this thread like 5 times and wasnt going to respond..But I have something "informative" for you...Here is some advice, you don't go making friends by trying to slam the guys who are trying to give you some advice ( who if you also look around here on non-hardcore are the ones busting their balls helping people out) Blacksheep and Lucasfruy are not spreading rhetoric, they are giving you sound advice from their experience and are very informative...Your 60 posts have not been as "Informatve" as there combined 3000...Check your emotional baggage at the door before you come on here..Your the one who asked" SOA or SUA" not them..I can google that and get over 11,200 hits literally..Somethings are hard to SEARCH, Google, or Research..Sometimes your caught up lookin into other areas and you have to ask a newb/dumb /obvios question so you research other things at the same time..( Though I dont think that is your case)..Now you can ask for more detail in those areas, or if you dont understand something, but dont go bustin their balls for your laziness...And if you only wheel 4-5 times a year, leave it alone becaue your not going to have alot of time to work on it or wheel it when its done..Unless you just want some poser pics to show everyone it just sitting and looking pretty..

This thread should have been posted in HARDCORE too!!!

J4J,
Everybody has opinions...

I recently finished a leaf swap on my TJ. Why? Because I could, because it's different, and why not... Still ended up building a long arm setup up front. To keep it low, I did SUA with 2" XJ packs. There's really no other benefits to being SUA vs SOA although some argue that SUA isn't as susceptible to axle wrap. Haven't wheeled it yet so who knows if this combo will actually work...

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/red_smoke/Cummins%20project/2-1-10/P9230270.jpg

...Your 60 posts have not been as "Informatve" as there combined 3000...

Heh if you want to get technical, I have close to 4700 posts. :flipoff2: Some are less informative then others, some are down right silly.

Ok I'm gonna shut up now....

...Blacksheep and Lucasfruy are not spreading rhetoric, they are giving you sound advice from their experience and are very informative...

This thread should have been posted in HARDCORE too!!!
Aww, you warmed my cockles. :flipoff2:
..and I agree, P4X4JHC4L!

J4J,
Everybody has opinions...

I recently finished a leaf swap on my TJ. Why? Because I could, because it's different, and why not... Still ended up building a long arm setup up front. To keep it low, I did SUA with 2" XJ packs. There's really no other benefits to being SUA vs SOA although some argue that SUA isn't as susceptible to axle wrap. Haven't wheeled it yet so who knows if this combo will actually work...

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/red_smoke/Cummins%20project/2-1-10/P9230270.jpg

OK, see, now if this is what he wanted to accomplish, I'd tell him to go for it and have him go through a full build thread so we could all help him out however he needed us. ...But it's not, so I didn't.

I dig it, let us know what you think of it once you get it moving.

Heh if you want to get technical, I have close to 4700 posts. :flipoff2: Some are less informative then others, some are down right silly.

Ok I'm gonna shut up now....

Hah, gotta love ShitShat. Now I have to resort to posts like this to pad my count!

blacksheep, thank u for that VERY GOOD answer to his question. im impressed by your knowledge, seriously. i even learned something reading that, which is why i come to pirate. i just wish i didnt have to beat it out of u.

J4J, see.... that was easy. :shaking:

Hah, gotta love ShitShat. Now I have to resort to posts like this to pad my count!

Meh, if you value a high post count, thats all cool, theres some guys on this site with over 30k posts. For me personally I find high post counts to be guys who spend too much time on the internet :laughing:. I'd turn mine off if given the option. It's caused me nothing but grief in the tech forums from guys sending me IMs claiming that I'm just trying to pad my post count. Oh well :(.

blacksheep, thank u for that VERY GOOD answer to his question. im impressed by your knowledge, seriously. i even learned something reading that, which is why i come to pirate. i just wish i didnt have to beat it out of u.

J4J, see.... that was easy. :shaking:

Don't get used to it, it was a freebie. :flipoff2: I'm just too sick at the moment to maintain my vigilance. :laughing:

The OP had decided to go to rear leafs and wanted to know what would be better- SOA or SUA. Given the fact that SOA results in 5.5" of lift and that would really make the front suspension a lot more difficult to match, plus we've learned on a later post that he doesn't want to go that high. I think a SUA is the correct answer. As far as an absolute need for an antiwrap bar- I disagree. I run SUA RE XD rear springs, with 37's and a 6.0- depending on road or trail conditions, it either spins the tires, or grabs tight and goes. I've NEVER had wheel hop.