This is probably a repost because its that damn good. This is pictures and comments from the surgeon on a wound from an AR-15. Very informative about .223 wounds and rifle wounds in general. I only read the first page of posts but I was amazed.

35%: http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=17111.0

yup... thats why i scoff at people when they say that a 5.7x28 round is just as powerful as a .22...

velocity is a hell of a drug...

I sure don't have any desire to get on the wrong end of one. Despite the nay sayers they can be a decent deer round too.

17 hmr ballistic tip hornady point blank range to the calf of the leg. 17 grain bullet can do some serious damage.

Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.

One of the times we tried fun targets we got a block of ice.

Shot it with the .45, and it took a chunk off the side.
Shot it with the .357 mag, and it snowed.

High velocity can do wonders to your energy/foot pounds.

Now show me a wound from a .300 Remington Ultra Mag, because I've never seen one...

Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.

that was at the hospital cleaned up a bit. it was a rifle with a velocity of 2550 FPS at muzzle (according to the Hornady Box). bullet fragmented on impact as it was designed and sent fragments every where into the flesh. to this day my friend has a baseball size reminder on his leg, and keeps a watch full eye on his old lady when she is behind the gun.

I wonder what that wound had looked like had it not hit the bone. I would imagine it would have been a lot less destructive, but thats just a guess. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

Chris

if it was a fmj and it was only in soft tissue i would imagine the results would have been drastically different.

I wonder what that wound had looked like had it not hit the bone. I would imagine it would have been a lot less destructive, but thats just a guess. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

Chris

According to the surgeon that posted in the thread, the bullet did not hit the bone. The shockwave is what destroyed the bone.
Entrance wound is on the inner thigh, exit is the huge stellate laceration seen on the outer thigh. Based on the xray view of the femur bone, bone was NOT hit, but broke most probably due to the temporary stretch cavity created by the considerable hydraulic shock wave the M193 cartridge is known to create.

is that round a soft point or a hollow point?

is that round a soft point or a hollow point?

depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that

depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that

Really dont make a lot of diff as the FMJ ones will blow up and make a mess too. But its still the stone age and everyone thinks a 7.62x51 makes a bigger hole.

depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that

From the article it was an M193 round and from armystudyguide.com
"Cartridge, 5.56-mm, Ball, M193. The M193 cartridge is a center-fire cartridge with a 55-grain, gilded metal-jacketed, lead alloy core bullet. The M193 round is the standard cartridge for field use with the M16A1 rifle and has no identifying marks."

They are not hollow points and 99% or more of what you will find in the military service is FMJ. Snipers are allowed to use "hollow point" bullets only because the formation of the hollow point is a byproduct of the production of the bullet when they wrap the jacket around the core, which makes for a more consistent, and thus accurate bullet.

Really dont make a lot of diff as the FMJ ones will blow up and make a mess too. But its still the stone age and everyone thinks a 7.62x51 makes a bigger hole.

The distance on that shot was less than 20 yards and by all accounts the bullet was traveling in excess of 3000fps. Care to posit what a .308 round would do to flesh under the same conditions? I'm reminded of the old hot rodder adage "there's no replacement for displacement". Methinks that crosses many topics.

yup... thats why i scoff at people when they say that a 5.7x28 round is just as powerful as a .22...

velocity is a hell of a drug...

Agreed it is not....but those people need to understand that its not meant for the same purpose as a .223 round. They can read on FN's website and have it cleared up for them....that being said the 5.7 is still nothing to sneeze at.

It's that old "F=MA" equation, I beleive :)

Aloha and I (and others) were shooting last summer with some damp sand as a backstop.

I hadn't noticed this before, but it was obvious that the pistol rounds impacted the sand and simply burrowed in.

The rifle rounds (there were 5.56, 5.45 and .30-06 present) caused a good sized cloud of water vapor to puff out of the sand....presumably due to the additional energy deposited.

Yeah, I'm a geek...but I found it interesting...

could of been a MK262 MOD1 77gr. just a thought....how would a Doc know what he is shot with....just curious...

could of been a MK262 MOD1 77gr. just a thought....how would a Doc know what he is shot with....just curious...

From the article "According to victim, drunk cop shot him after altercation. According to cop, accident daw." it sounds like they knew what the officer was carrying.

I won't get into 5.56 vs 7.62 debate, but I will say this, that wound was created a very short distance from the muzzle. I hope no one has images of doing that to zombies at 500M.

That is very interesting to see. I'm a little suspicious that the bullet didn't actually hit the bone, though. I thought that people had problems with bullets passing "through and through" on game animals and not dropping the animal. Though, perhaps the bullet's fragmentation was a result of the hydrostatic shock and led it to fully impart its energy into the flesh.:confused:

The problem with any discussion about calibers, ballistics, etc is that there are too many variables for any comparison in situations.

If I had to shoot someone dead I'd prefer to have an M2 Browning, however there are some situations where a .22 short will kill them equally dead.

I have shot a lot of fruit, steel, boxes and other things that explode with a .223 at ranges varying out to 600 yards. .223 will do that kind of damage a long way out. Farthest fruit I have shot was a large pineapple at 450 yards and it exploded under a 77gr SMK.

Just a point of clarification to one of the above posts F=MA. All the energy tables and equations I am familiar with regarding firearms terminal ballistics use velocity square. Hence, a lot more drug than mere "V".

Hey Chris !! Welcome back. :flipoff2:

My brother took a .223 round. Luckiest SOB alive. It grazed his forearm. Left a brand, looked like a rod laid across his skin. Seven others not so lucky. .223 is nothing to fuck around with. :shaking:

What's wrong with that picture?
1) It's taken in a 3rd world country hospital - not a US military hospital (look at the bedframe and tile wall). Iraqi doctors are not a reputable source of info IMO.
2) Photo of entrance wound is noticeably absent
3) Photo presumably taken post-cleanout (notice incisions)

I won't call BS, but for all I know that's a picture of a shrapnel injury that was infected for a week before a doc even took a look at it. I've seen a lot of 5.56 GSW's up close and personal and that's not typical damage. All I'm saying is that there's probably a lot more to the story than what that picture shows.

That is very interesting to see. I'm a little suspicious that the bullet didn't actually hit the bone, though. I thought that people had problems with bullets passing "through and through" on game animals and not dropping the animal. Though, perhaps the bullet's fragmentation was a result of the hydrostatic shock and led it to fully impart its energy into the flesh.:confused:

Bullets like m193 are designed to tumble on impact. When they get to a certain degree of yaw, they come apart. Hunting bullets are designed to maintain their attitude (if that's the right word) as they penetrate and expand.

Just a point of clarification to one of the above posts F=MA. All the energy tables and equations I am familiar with regarding firearms terminal ballistics use velocity square. Hence, a lot more drug than mere "V".:

For bullets the formula used is energy, not force. E=(mv^2)/2


My brother took a .223 round. Luckiest SOB alive. It grazed his forearm. Left a brand, looked like a rod laid across his skin. Seven others not so lucky. .223 is nothing to fuck around with. :shaking:

WTF was shooting at them with .223? Was this stateside?

Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.
Yeah that's pretty impressive, the 17HMR is nothing to sneeze at, that's a big fawkin hole! I'm constantly surprised at the destruction mine will do..

For bullets the formula used is energy, not force. E=(mv^2)/2

I stand corrected...v^2 makes more sense...original (vague) point being that flippin' "v" makes a big differnce :)

still say that the 5.56 round does not compare the 30-06 of days past but w/e

still say that the 5.56 round does not compare the 30-06 of days past but w/e

I'm pretty sure nobody here is going to argue that a 69gr bullet moving 2800 FPS is superior to a 155 gr bullet moving the same speed.

I wouldn't want to get shot with a rifle of ANY caliber.

Here's a good thread about .223/5.56 with some good links in it as well.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1604695&gonew=1#UNREAD

The incident happened in the Philippines.

and yet nobody has called BS on a "drunk cop" shooting "FMJ" since when do cops shoot fmj on duty (think they use taps or other frangible or hollowpoint) and a cop drunk on the job????? that would be all over the place

The incident happened in the Philippines.

Again, this incident allegedly happened in the Philippines.

Came across this and remembered this thread. Figured I would post it up.

http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=415927

Came across this and remembered this thread. Figured I would post it up.

http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=415927

Hollleee shoot.


35% FOR SERIOUS GORE AHEAD
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or at least, half a head. :D

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2RTg_KWWCI/AAAAAAAAHyI/JkspbO3VNfU/s1024/image006.jpg

Thats no way to get ahead in life.:flipoff2:

lets face it, hes breathless.

Didn't really need to see that. :eek:
What's the back story?
Nvr mind. Hope they were all bad guys. That's a lot of dead bodies.

Hey I think he has a phone call.

Didn't really need to see that. :eek:
What's the back story?
Nvr mind. Hope they were all bad guys. That's a lot of dead bodies.

he is brown and there is an ak on the ground... i am sure he is a bad guy. :flipoff2:

he is brown and there is an ak on the ground... i am sure he is a bad guy. :flipoff2:

I saw a lot of M16 style rifles, but not a single AK...

Now show me a wound from a .300 Remington Ultra Mag, because I've never seen one...

I've seen them in deer. The deer would never have known the difference between it and a 7mm mag. Generally the bullets are too heavy deer around here, so the 25-06, 270, and other rounds that shoot about 120 gr bullet show maximum tissue damage.

223 is a dandy deer cartridge with a good quality expanding bullet.
I have seen a handful of deer dropped by my cousin's boy with a 223.
They wouldn't have hit the ground any deader than any other cartridge.
Many never took a step, most of the ones that did only went a few yerds.

I'm pretty sure nobody here is going to argue that a 69gr bullet moving 2800 FPS is superior to a 155 gr bullet moving the same speed.


It depends on what you are shooting.
often the 155 grain bullet stays together plugging a hole in, and only a slightly larger exit wound. That is because the target wasn't enough to cause the bullet to come apart. The 155 actual shed less energy into the target.

The 68 grain bullets are generally thinner skinned and come apart regardless. In that case they will shed 100% of their energy in the target. That means more tissue damage, better expansion, and more effective.

There are so many factors when comparing exterior ballistics, that you really have to set specific criteria to compare.

I have been a big fan of "speed kills" since the late 80's when I started hunting with 6mm Rem.

Speer Page 711 Glossary

Energy: the amount of work capable of being done by a projectile at a given range, expressed in foot-pounds in the english system. Found by multiplying the square of the velocity in feet/sec by the weight of the bullet in grains and dividing by 450,400

I heard a second hand story about a young man who was looking for an easy way out of basic training. He offered his buddy some money to shoot him in the leg. The guy agreed, and they decided he would take the bullet in the back of the leg, so it looked like an accident. The bullet entered just above the top of the knee cap (from the rear), traveled at a downward angle of aprox. 20*, and exited through the front of the knee. 1/3rd of his knee was gone, or "vaporized" as the young man put it. He bore witness not to the shooting, but to the care of the injury, as he was in the hospital for another illness and shared a room.

It depends on what you are shooting.
often the 155 grain bullet stays together plugging a hole in, and only a slightly larger exit wound. That is because the target wasn't enough to cause the bullet to come apart. The 155 actual shed less energy into the target.

The 68 grain bullets are generally thinner skinned and come apart regardless. In that case they will shed 100% of their energy in the target. That means more tissue damage, better expansion, and more effective.

There are so many factors when comparing exterior ballistics, that you really have to set specific criteria to compare.

I have been a big fan of "speed kills" since the late 80's when I started hunting with 6mm Rem.


I couldn't agree more. The most lethal deer round I have found to date is the 25-06. Using Hornady soft points (87 grains) I have seen this round dump all its energy into a deer with no exit wound and the heart is blown off the arteries from the shockwave, chunks taken out of the liver, and the lungs look like jello. With this load the muzzle velocity is around 3700 fps and the deer do not move at all, drops them straight to the ground every time.

I also agree regarding your explanation of target density. With light, thin skinned targets (deer, antelopes, coyotes, etc) the small fast rounds are devistating and bigger isn't better. This is the same with human targets as shown in this thread. Turns out people aren't that dense
For these applications give me that 25-06, 243, or 223 well over that 300 win mag, 30-06, 8mm mauser.

I saw a lot of M16 style rifles, but not a single AK...

i was referring to the last pic posted by chris.

I couldn't agree more. The most lethal deer round I have found to date is the 25-06. Using Hornady soft points (87 grains) I have seen this round dump all its energy into a deer with no exit wound and the heart is blown off the arteries from the shockwave, chunks taken out of the liver, and the lungs look like jello. With this load the muzzle velocity is around 3700 fps and the deer do not move at all, drops them straight to the ground every time.

I also agree regarding your explanation of target density. With light, thin skinned targets (deer, antelopes, coyotes, etc) the small fast rounds are devistating and bigger isn't better. This is the same with human targets as shown in this thread. Turns out people aren't that dense
For these applications give me that 25-06, 243, or 223 well over that 300 win mag, 30-06, 8mm mauser.

i am not going to say you are incorrect but here are my findings. first off, i hunt in tremendously thick and nasty swamps. 30 yards in the swamp is a long way. i am not interested in lung shots where the animal runs 30-60 yards. i want to pull the trigger, get the vehicle and pick the deer up where i shot it. my dad and i used to shoot ballistic tip bullets. you cannot argue the accuracy of them. we were chasing deer all over the place. some were a lot harder than they should have been. my pops busted a doe on one occasion, right in the shoulder. she flopped and then got up and ran off. she then stopped and looked around. he then made a clean lung shot. 90 yds later we loaded he up. when we skint it out we found the bullet basically disintegrated when it impacted the shoulder bone. that was the last deer he or i shot with ballistic tips. that was about 20 years ago. in that 20 years i can count on 1 hand the deer that have gotten away from either of us after going to bigger soft point bullets. at that time he was shooting a .280 with the muzzle velocity of 3100 fps. now he has a .300 win mag and i still shoot the same 7mm rem mag. both of us shoot some variety of the remington core loks. 150 or 160 grain. i have busted a few does with the ar10 but again i use 150 grain core loks. i understand the physics behind exit holes and lost energy but the "frangible" bullets do not preform the way i like for medium/ big game.

223 is a dandy deer cartridge with a good quality expanding bullet.I have seen a handful of deer dropped by my cousin's boy with a 223.They wouldn't have hit the ground any deader than any other cartridge.
Many never took a step, most of the ones that did only went a few yerds.

My grandfather has used a Mini-14 for deer hunting for years. He busts them with neck shots. Craziest thing I've ever seen. He's an amazing rifle shot and he drops them in their tracks. If I tried to hunt like that, it would be an utter shit show. I would never attempt the shots he makes every year shot.

i am not going to say you are incorrect but here are my findings. first off, i hunt in tremendously thick and nasty swamps. 30 yards in the swamp is a long way. i am not interested in lung shots where the animal runs 30-60 yards. i want to pull the trigger, get the vehicle and pick the deer up where i shot it. my dad and i used to shoot ballistic tip bullets. you cannot argue the accuracy of them. we were chasing deer all over the place. some were a lot harder than they should have been. my pops busted a doe on one occasion, right in the shoulder. she flopped and then got up and ran off. she then stopped and looked around. he then made a clean lung shot. 90 yds later we loaded he up. when we skint it out we found the bullet basically disintegrated when it impacted the shoulder bone. that was the last deer he or i shot with ballistic tips. that was about 20 years ago. in that 20 years i can count on 1 hand the deer that have gotten away from either of us after going to bigger soft point bullets. at that time he was shooting a .280 with the muzzle velocity of 3100 fps. now he has a .300 win mag and i still shoot the same 7mm rem mag. both of us shoot some variety of the remington core loks. 150 or 160 grain. i have busted a few does with the ar10 but again i use 150 grain core loks. i understand the physics behind exit holes and lost energy but the "frangible" bullets do not preform the way i like for medium/ big game.
Hell at 30 yards you should be hunting with a pistol or shotgun or just head shooting everything. I have hunted WV since I was 12. I started out using a 30/30 Marlin 336 lever action. I was forced to switch to .243 because Grandma passed away and they divided up Grandpa's guns(30/30) to all the children. Both are great on deer and rarely do I get to shoot more than 150 yards because I primarily hunt in the woods. My pops has a deer cuttin shop during season and I have seen many carcasses with A LOT of damage from small caliber bullets. Mainly the bullet would go in, hit a rib and deflect. I have seen where a deer was shot right behind the shoulder, rib deflected the bullet and it ended up in the hind quarter.

i am not going to say you are incorrect but here are my findings. first off, i hunt in tremendously thick and nasty swamps. 30 yards in the swamp is a long way. i am not interested in lung shots where the animal runs 30-60 yards. i want to pull the trigger, get the vehicle and pick the deer up where i shot it. my dad and i used to shoot ballistic tip bullets. you cannot argue the accuracy of them. we were chasing deer all over the place. some were a lot harder than they should have been. my pops busted a doe on one occasion, right in the shoulder. she flopped and then got up and ran off. she then stopped and looked around. he then made a clean lung shot. 90 yds later we loaded he up. when we skint it out we found the bullet basically disintegrated when it impacted the shoulder bone. that was the last deer he or i shot with ballistic tips. that was about 20 years ago. in that 20 years i can count on 1 hand the deer that have gotten away from either of us after going to bigger soft point bullets. at that time he was shooting a .280 with the muzzle velocity of 3100 fps. now he has a .300 win mag and i still shoot the same 7mm rem mag. both of us shoot some variety of the remington core loks. 150 or 160 grain. i have busted a few does with the ar10 but again i use 150 grain core loks. i understand the physics behind exit holes and lost energy but the "frangible" bullets do not preform the way i like for medium/ big game.


I dont like ballistic tips either, so its good you didnt say I was "wrong." Notice my 25-06 load of choice AGAIN was a 87 grain soft point. Did I say ballistic tip? I dont think I did...

I'll keep my .270 shooting Nosler ball. tips! I have had one deer run, and that was only about 20 yards, down hill at that. I make clean, center mass shots in the chest cavity. When you walk over to the carcass, you see a 4ft spray of lungs, heart, etc on the back side.

And when ya shoot a deer in the head with a .17HMR, expect near decapitation... :flipoff2:

Hell at 30 yards you should be hunting with a pistol or shotgun or just head shooting everything...

the 30 yard was referring to after the shot. head shots are too messy and sometimes unreliable. i shoot my does in the neck, even the ones 300 yds away :flipoff2:

I dont like ballistic tips either, so its good you didnt say I was "wrong." Notice my 25-06 load of choice AGAIN was a 87 grain soft point. Did I say ballistic tip? I dont think I did...

well, yes. you are correct. i was referring to the no exit hole= 100% energy transfer is better than "loosing energy" with an exit hole. if the bullet does not come out and the animal does not drop then unless you hunt in a prairie you will have a hard time finding them.

...I have seen this round dump all its energy into a deer with no exit wound...
here. i was just comparing the problems we had with ballistic tips to the quality you pointed out in your bullet selection.

I've seen them in deer. The deer would never have known the difference between it and a 7mm mag. Generally the bullets are too heavy deer around here, so the 25-06, 270, and other rounds that shoot about 120 gr bullet show maximum tissue damage.


:eek:
So much for the back strap!!
My first hunt with my .25-06 was in northern California for Columbia blacktails. On the last evening of my hunt, I spotted a handsome buck on a mountainside across a wide draw. The buck was standing above me, facing downhill. There was some brush covering his chest, so only his neck and head were in view. I estimated his range at 300 yards. I lay down and took a careful rest, placing my horizontal crosshair on the top of his antlers and the vertical crosshair centered between his eyes. When I touched off the shot, the buck virtually dissolved from my view. It was almost dark when I got to him. The shot hit him between the eyes, exited out the back of his skull, then entered his spine between his shoulder blades and traveled the full length of his spine, exiting at the base of his tail. In other words, the incredible little 115-grain Nosler bullet had traveled the full length of the deer — through bone — and still exited! I was astounded. So was the buck, which dropped in his tracks. Over the next 10 years, I experienced similar results on deer of all sizes, including a number of large Alberta whitetails.

Does anyone recall one of the many really ugly scenes from the Movie Schindler's List ? Uniformed German soldiers are playing around trying to see how many Jews they call stand foot to toe and kill with one shot. They show three go down easy. It's Hollywood but it makes a point. The 25-06 with the expansion properties won't hack it that way.

There are so many factors when comparing exterior ballistics, that you really have to set specific criteria to compare.

How true.

Ballisitc Gellatin is a start.

My bro ended up on a cot at a German Hospital outside of Kabul. The guy next to him survived an AK-47 round through the body armor and chest/lung, but it killed the guy in back of him. Thats just a punky 2300 fps round. Different strokes for different folks. Geneva Convention ammo used by the same guys that strap plastic onto women and kids. :shaking:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/AR009.jpg

Left to right:
69 SMK, 50 Vmax, 55FMJ into a tub of hot glue for a packaging glue machine

it was neat to play around with

The 25-06 with the expansion properties won't hack it that way.

What? I have seen the amazing things a 25-06 can do with that load mentioned. So maybe you should try that load on a deer before telling me I am wrong.

Instead of watching movies...

I have seen this round dump all its energy into a deer with no exit wound and the heart is blown off the arteries from the shockwave, chunks taken out of the liver, and the lungs look like jello. With this load the muzzle velocity is around 3700 fps and the deer do not move at all, drops them straight to the ground every time.


As opposed to a higher sectional density, less expansive soft point round, way way way slower. I meant your deer round, as described, will most likely not go through body armor, all the way through a body, and into another with enough Umgabi to kill it. Confirmed by your words quoted exactly. I'm not saying your wrong, kiddo. I did say different strokes for different folks. :) If it works, go with it !!!

This is where San Diego CJ would go off on a comprehension wank. Take the same case, neck it back up to where it started over a hundred years ago, at least DOUBLE the bullet mass, slow it down, put a FMJ on it, and yeah, it will out penetrate your 3700 fps Softpoint every time. :) We agree on that because that was that I was alluding to. Not saying it will or will not kill Bambi. My one deer kill was with a near twin to your .257, a .264 but a way more penetrating round. Virtual point blank range, It went through, two holes. More like an armor piercing spear tip instead of a claymore. Peace out.

As opposed to a higher sectional density, less expansive soft point round, way way way slower. I meant your deer round, as described, will most likely not go through body armor, all the way through a body, and into another with enough Umgabi to kill it. Confirmed by your words quoted exactly. I'm not saying your wrong, kiddo. I did say different strokes for different folks. :) If it works, go with it !!!

This is where San Diego CJ would go off on a comprehension wank. Take the same case, neck it back up to where it started over a hundred years ago, at least DOUBLE the bullet mass, slow it down, put a FMJ on it, and yeah, it will out penetrate your 3700 fps Softpoint every time. :) We agree on that because that was that I was alluding to. Not saying it will or will not kill Bambi. My one deer kill was with a near twin to your .257, a .264 but a way more penetrating round. Virtual point blank range, It went through, two holes. More like an armor piercing spear tip instead of a claymore. Peace out.


If you want to kill a bunch of people standing in a row, have at it? I have no plans to shoot through armor. My reference was for a deer round, which is what we were talking about. Kiddo? Man, that is good stuff. :flipoff2:

http://www.dailypress.com/media/photo/2009-01/44650164.jpg

:beer:

Have you shot any Match bullets at long range in the .257 ?

BTW you/we/they/eye were talking bout. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't have a deer in it.

http://www.dailypress.com/media/photo/2009-01/44650164.jpg

:beer:

Have you shot any Match bullets at long range in the .257 ?

BTW you/we/they/eye were talking bout. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't have a deer in it.


Bottom line is you got your panties in a wad because I said give me a 25-06 over a 8mm mauser. Luckily for me, I have taken deer with both guns using various loads. Shooting a ??? caliber wont change that. Get over it.

Schindler's List can kiss my ass, I wasn't referencing human targets, and even if I was, it is a movie! I even started off by saying "For these applications, give me..."

With a name like "Lil Uzi" your the kid, or just have a mind like one.

And you are correct, the OP didn't talk about deer, that came up later in the thread. :eek: I won't deny you that much... The thread mentions deer with
SilverZuk and he said this:

"I've seen them in deer. The deer would never have known the difference between it and a 7mm mag. Generally the bullets are too heavy deer around here, so the 25-06, 270, and other rounds that shoot about 120 gr bullet show maximum tissue damage."

I was simply agreeing and adding my 2 cents as I had similar results with lighter grain rounds - and you got butt hurt which isn't my fault.


I am done arguing with you. Have a great day.

I haven't held these yet but they look to be badass.
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2010/06/02/military-tech-action/?test=latestnews#slide=1
http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Army%20Releases%20New%
New Rounds for Army Rifles
June 23: A new round replaces the current M855 5.56mm cartridge that has been used by U.S. troops since the early 1980s. The M855A1 offers a number of significant enhancements: improved hard target capability, increased dependability, consistent performance at all distances, improved accuracy, reduced muzzle flash and a higher velocity. It's tailored for use in the M-4 but also improves the performance of the M-16 and M-249 families of weapons.

Source: U.S. Army

I have not heard anyone talk about the .243 rem.How does it compare to the other calibers mentioned here? I shot a doe with one once,at about 70 yards.It was quartering away from me and stopped,I took aim and fired .Then deer hauled ass and was never found.Now when I went to track it there was a perfect triangle of hair,blood and tissue from where that bullet passed clean through atleast 12' from where it was standing.It entered behind the left shoulder and exited out the right shoulder taking the shoulder off!!! I only know this because we ran in to another hunter while tracking and he said it come running threw here on three legs just fine. If I ever use A .243 again I will head shoot next time.

I haven't held these yet but they look to be badass.


http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Army%20Releases%20New%20Ordinance_slideshow_604x50 0.jpg

Check out this .50 round. That thing looks mean!!

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Guarding%20an%20Entry%20Point_slideshow_604x500.jp g

Edit: Wait a minute that's a blank isn't it?

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Army%20Releases%20New%20Ordinance_slideshow_604x50 0.jpg

Check out this .50 round. That thing looks mean!!

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Guarding%20an%20Entry%20Point_slideshow_604x500.jp g

Edit: Wait a minute that's a blank isn't it?
yes those are .50 BMFBs

I have not heard anyone talk about the .243 rem.How does it compare to the other calibers mentioned here? I shot a doe with one once,at about 70 yards.It was quartering away from me and stopped,I took aim and fired .Then deer hauled ass and was never found.Now when I went to track it there was a perfect triangle of hair,blood and tissue from where that bullet passed clean through atleast 12' from where it was standing.It entered behind the left shoulder and exited out the right shoulder taking the shoulder off!!! I only know this because we ran in to another hunter while tracking and he said it come running threw here on three legs just fine. If I ever use A .243 again I will head shoot next time.

I have never had a problem dropping a buck or doe with a .243. I have a Savage bolt action and in fact it was what I used to take my largest buck ever at nearly 150-155 yards. 1 shot. It is all in the shot placement and the bullet type.

Now, this is just badass.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2010/06/02/military-tech-action/?test=latestnews#slide=52

yes those are .50 BMFBs

The bottom pics is linked blanks. Look at the crimping.

The bottom pics is linked blanks. Look at the crimping.

hence why i said YES to his EDIT, then proceded to make a funny by saying they were .50 BMFBs

.50 caliber Big Mother Fucking Blanks :shaking:

is my humor that bad?

Looks like some poge dooche... notice its on a tripod, setting in the bed of a truck (check out the fence post laying beside it).

still say .30 cal rounds should be mainstream for military. but that's me

still say .30 cal rounds should be mainstream for military. but that's me

I'd rather not go into combat with only .30 carbine or 7.62 Tokarev.
Well, unless I was kicking doors with a PPSH-41 BRAAAAAP! :blackflipoff2:

Some reference on 5.56 and other terminal ballistics

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/40052-MilitaryAssaultRifleWPcopy.jpg

Notice the similarities in the two Russian FMJ round wound channels.

Anyone ever notice that two people arguing are really saying the same thing :shaking::shaking::shaking:

Lil Uzi was from back in 2001 after an Isuzu truck. Yes Vern, it runs the Rubicon. Lil is from Lil Abner. So yeah, thats boinkin childish.

8mm Mauser is not a gun, BTW. :flipoff2:

For humor's sake, please post up your pic of butt hurt !!

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv312/hi5534/Smack.gif

Looks like some poge dooche... notice its on a tripod, setting in the bed of a truck (check out the fence post laying beside it).

"Master-at-Arms 3rd Class Nicole Gann, assigned to Maritime Expeditionary Security Squadron 3, guards an entry control point with a .50-caliber machine gun at a simulated forward operating base during a Navy Expeditionary Combat Command integrated exercise. The weeklong training exercise is designed to provide NECC Sailors realistic combat training in preparation for up-coming deployments."

Sounds like NTC or JRTC