I am putting together the front axle on my 60. In putting the spindles on, the axles become really hard to turn by hand. Either at the pinion, or the birf. Is this right? What is happening I think is that the brass bushing is binding with the birfield. I have installed a mar tack as far back on the splies as possible with out the inner axel seal falling off the seal surface. The birfield is pushed all the way to the inner cir clip and the outer cir clip is not being used. As for the spindle, it is assembled as follows:

small gasket, spindle, disk brake shield(outter portion removed), large paper gasket, hub seal.

What it looks like I need is a shim between the spindle and the knuckle to give the birf some room.

Am I missing something???? Help please....:confused:

Thanks

Darius

Disk brake dust shield?

try to pm fish on here he has done many:)

Ive been in a few axles. have you replaced anything or did you just R&R the axle?? if you push the spindle on you will destroy the inner axle seal if that has not happened already. Did you lose/replace/misplace any of the shims?? That will cause the knuckle to misalign.

There is no shim for between the knucle spindle.

Is the spindle hard to install flush against the knuckle ? Or are you running it in with a1/2 impact?
Are you having problem with both sides?

I have done a complete tear down and a shackle reverse and a SOA on the housing. I could under stand if things did not want to go on easily if the housing was bent , but the inners will slide in just fine, meaning there is no pressure side to side or up and down.

JasonM - Dust shield goes on after the spindle. It is installed, granted the shield part has been cut off and it is just being used as a spacer.

Cruzila - here is what might be the problem. I had parts from a mini housing that I had dismantled earlier. IIRC, they shoud be the same from the knuckles out. Right?? The only shims that are used are on the knuckle bearings right?? I have gone through ad replaced all the bearings and everthing is to the proper torques and the readings on the pull scale fall in the recommended range. The knuckle is not misaligned in an up and down, side to side, but more of an in and out situation. The knuckle bearings woudl not allow, afftect this that I can see.

Fish - I am running it in by hand, and I can compress it to get the proper seal and torque readings. I had problems on the short side first, and upon grinding down the mar tack to the minimum so the seal would be on the sealing surface, I got what I felt to be accdeptable pressure on the spindle/birf. I could turn i by had, but i was not as loose as with ort the spindle tightened down. Now onthe long side I am to the end of the sealing surface with the martack, and it is too tight still.

One thing, I am using the spindles from the mini housing. The spindles form the 60 housing had 240K miles on them and were starting to show wear in the bearing surfaces and the seal surfaces. That is the only reason I changed. Also the the brass bushing on the mini spindles were not as worn as the 60s, and the 60s did show signs of wear where the bushing was up against the birf.

The axle has not been run, and I know that the inner seal has two lips on it. The wear marks on the inner shafts seem to align with where the seal is sitting now.

Even if when I did the cut and turn on the axel if anything it would have lengthened the housing, not shortened it right???(minute amount) I used the cutting wheel method FWIW.

Thanks for your input. Please shed some mor light on the subject.:confused:

Cruzila - here is what might be the problem. I had parts from a mini housing that I had dismantled earlier. IIRC, they shoud be the same from the knuckles out. Right?? The only shims that are used are on the knuckle bearings right?? I have gone through ad replaced all the bearings and everthing is to the proper torques and the readings on the pull scale fall in the recommended range. The knuckle is not misaligned in an up and down, side to side, but more of an in and out situation. The knuckle bearings woudl not allow, afftect this that I can see.

This is the core of the problem. When doing a mini truck Knuckle swap the sst must be used to align the knuckle/spindle bore to the housing. i did one once that gave a negative number for the lower shim!!! It was only about .010" so I put all on top. No problems there. The thing is the inner axle seal must be true to the axle/spindle so it does not wear. I have seen too many "mini" conversions leaking within days/ weeks of completion. These seals should last a long time with normal use. It sounds like yours is way too high or low causing it to bind on the inner seal. I cannot speak for the cut and turn job but it sounds like you did it OK. Unless it is twisted in the housing, misaligning the king pin angle.

Spindles are even the same part # on the fische FJ40 and mini. FJ60 should be the same ...........Guess

I think you are mis understanding the problem. First off the knuckel from the 60 and the minitruck are exactly the same(same part #). I am not binding on the seal. The problem is that the birf is sticking to far out and the brass bushing is being compressed against the end of the birf bell (where the bell end and the stub shaft begins). There is a small flat spot wher the shaft begins and what is happening is that the birf is sitting to far out and binds with the bushing when the spindel tightened down. I have the original shims on the knuckle bearings and they work fine. Let me know. Thanks for your input.

-Darius

I had this problem with the following set-up: cruiser axle, Hilux disks, martacks. I found the problem to be the martacks. They needed to be further outboard, like almost off the spline.

I fixed mine by pulling the shaft out and removing the Birf. I then got an OLD diff, slid the martacked axle into it, and gave it a firm tap with a hammer, driving it into the diff very slightly. I then pulled the axle from the old diff and cleaned up the spline with a fine file. If your martacks are good they will not shear off, but the diff will 'deepen' the spline on the shaft.

Actually, come to think of it, you should check that you filed the martack flush with the top of the spline teeth in the first place. You probably did - just checking.

I just read the bit about the seal surface. Weird.

Cheers

Ben

2car - After pondering it all night (I work night shift), I have figured that I will have to put the martack further back. Looks almost like to far back, like you said almost off the spline. I was at @1.5" already, and I am using regular birfs. I by chance also installed the read diff center pin stop to see if that would work with out having to put the martacks. I might just use it that way for a while. When I was checking that out, it seems to have been the same spot that the martack would have to be to relieve the binding. Thanks for your input:D

-Darius

Something is keeping the axle from sliding inboard yes. It may be the martack.

Somewhere on this board there is a thread on how to do a martack. Written by someone that figured out a better way to measure it. Something like painting/marking it and sliding it in then tacking at the mark. I also saw the bit about the seal surface so I dissmissed the Martack being the problem.

If you change ANYTHING on the knuckle it should be checked. (fyi, NEVER change 1/2 of the knuckle bearing) If you changed the knuckles it IS "different" and subject to the addition of tolerances allowed by the factory.

Q for the masses. If the martacks are to be almost off the spline then are they needed at all?

Scott

here is a tip staight from marlin,....1.5" is just a number thrown out to give you a general idea where to put the tack. If you are using the inners that came out of that axle,. look closely at the splines on the inner end of the shaft. You should see Shinny wear marks. you need to tack it just outside these marks. grind it flat with the to of the splines.

if you f..ked it up some how. its no big deal. either file out the weld or grind it out to the bottom of the spline. the weakest part of that shaft is at the neck down of the birf end, so a little grinding here isnt gonna hurt anything.

I like to find the shinny wear area, clamp a "vise grip" to the axle shaft just over the wear area, and then put the tack out side the vise grip. that way any little bobble isnt gonna wander into the "clear area" and I like to put 2 tacks just for the hell of it :beer:

Thanks for the info. I was using the grease in the spline mwthod of determining where to put the martack. I seems that they are just barely on the splines where the ridge starts to ramp up to the top of the spline. It all went together better this time with no binding. I just did not figure that it would be that far back on the splines.

Cruzila - FWIF I am doing a complete rebuild on the front axel minus the thirds. All bearings and seals. Rebuilding calipers too. I know if youchange the bearing to change the race too. Thanks :)

-Darius

Originally posted by trd55
Thanks for the info. I was using the grease in the spline mwthod of determining where to put the martack. I seems that they are just barely on the splines where the ridge starts to ramp up to the top of the spline. It all went together better this time with no binding. I just did not figure that it would be that far back on the splines.

Cruzila - FWIF I am doing a complete rebuild on the front axel minus the thirds. All bearings and seals. Rebuilding calipers too. I know if youchange the bearing to change the race too. Thanks :)

-Darius

had the same problem...just moved the martack further off of the splines....