condition 3: loaded mag inserted, chamber empty

watch this and tell me it's effective.

LiveLeak.com - Jewelery Store Shooting in Agra (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712)


it's definately safe. for the bad guy.

Do the Israelis still do this?????????

he would have been much faster if he had it in an ankle holster:flipoff2:

Just sent this to all my friends who are afraid to carry with one in the pipe...

damn... shock sets in quick! Looks like a lower gut shot...

im suprised a guy that size dropped so quick from that.... i mean, dont get me wrong, it was a round to alot of organs, but it wasnt a high shot from the looks of his hands around his pelvis...

any follow up story? (usually live leak is full of deaths...so pretty predictable)

I have no pity for stupidity

From the looks of it - one in the chamber wouldn't have saved this guy... he was shot before he ever drew. He would however would have (likely) not been kicked in the face.

It was over before he ever thought about drawing his weapon. Chambered or not.

Damn. At least he remember to rack the slide. :shaking:

Looks like he took at least 4 hits before he got off the first shot... And would have taken at least 2 of those before he could have fired even if he had a round chambered.

I agree - he never had a chance :(


BTW- I find this video quite disturbing :(

:mad3:Looks like he took at least 4 hits before he got off the first shot... And would have taken at least 2 of those before he could have fired even if he had a round chambered.

I agree - he never had a chance :(


BTW- I find this video quite disturbing :(




:mad3::mad3:

:mad3::mad3::mad3:

What are you bellyaching about Nancy?:mr-t:

:mad3:




:mad3::mad3:

Care to explain? :confused:

I'm guessing that to be death and not shock.

also, whether carry condition mattered here is one thing. I believe the point is to show how fast things happen and how .5 seconds matter.

additionally, when you have to generate time/distance to manipulate the action, it changes your overall reaction, which might multiply the amount of time before you get the first shot off.

if the bad guy's first shot was just a superficial wound or a miss, the clerk would have had a fighting chance if his gun was ready to shoot. action almost always beets reaction but why increase the bad guy's odds of success by carrying an unloaded gun?

and i don't think anyone has ever said that carrying a gun in any condition is an automatic win for the good guy. sometimes nothing can be done to protect yourself. that's life.

I wish the vid had sound... That would let us know how many shots fired.

I find this video not really disturbing, but sobering. I have a buddy who usually carries cond. 3 . Like I said, I used to... But shit like this Reminds me of how quick things get out of hand. It escilated so quick in the situation I was involved in, I was dumbfounded for a few seconds. that could have been my life.

Lesson Learned and I get to learn from my experience.

If I were in that situation and got shot at first I would at least like to return the favor.
If they were just there to steal stuff I would not have taken the risk to pull my gun out in the first place.

without sound it is hard to tell... but it looks like he is shot at least once before he even pulls out his weapon. that is a no win situation.

He should've had a "No guns allowed" sign on his front door.

He was getting shot no matter what condition he was in. The difference is he would have been able to shoot back and hopefully kill them as well.
I know guys who are afraid of carring a round in the chamber thinking it can go off to easy or I will have enough time.

he would have been much faster if he had it in an ankle holster:flipoff2:

exactly what I was thinking

He should've had a "No guns allowed" sign on his front door.

:lmao:

If I were in that situation and got shot at first I would at least like to return the favor.
If they were just there to steal stuff I would not have taken the risk to pull my gun out in the first place.
it looks like the bad guys left the store without taking anything besides that dude's life. :(

it looks like the bad guys left the store without taking anything besides that dude's life. :(

Do we even know if the guy died?

If I were in that situation and got shot at first I would at least like to return the favor.
If they were just there to steal stuff I would not have taken the risk to pull my gun out in the first place.
think about this for a second. do you really think you can read someone's mind?

someone comes into your house/business with a gun drawn and you think it's a "risk" to pull your gun as soon as you can vs waiting until they shoot you?

I don't understand this line of thinking. I would much rather deal with the guilt of shooting a BG vs the guilt of knowing I had the tool, ability and opportunity to stop that BG from killing or hurting a patron or family member.

suggesting that an individual psychoanalyze the BG to determine his intent with relation to harm is wildly irresponsible

Do we even know if the guy died?

Here is the description on LiveLeak:

The Agra police have released the CCTV footage of a murder inside a jewelery store. The images are of two gunmen barging into the jewelery shop on Sunday and opening fire.

An unloaded gun is just a paperweight, if I'm carrying there is one under the hammer.

Do we even know if the guy died?

IMO, it appeared he died.

Safe action pistol (Glock in my case) is what I have been carrying for a while now. There are 3 safeties that have to be disengaged for the pistol to fire. I carry loaded no matter where I go.

When I do carry my 1911, I still carry loaded. I will not give an extra .5 seconds to ANY badguy that wants to do damage/harm to me or my family. Yeah, I may die in any case, but I am going to do my damndest to return the fire/favor.

think about this for a second. do you really think you can read someone's mind?

someone comes into your house/business with a gun drawn and you think it's a "risk" to pull your gun as soon as you can vs waiting until they shoot you?

I don't understand this line of thinking. I would much rather deal with the guilt of shooting a BG vs the guilt of knowing I had the tool, ability and opportunity to stop that BG from killing or hurting a patron or family member.

suggesting that an individual psychoanalyze the BG to determine his intent with relation to harm is wildly irresponsible

If the guy already has his gun drawn and I have no chance of shooting him before he shoots me, I am not going to go for my gun. If I have the opportunity to shoot them before they shoot me, of course I will go for my gun. The object is to make it out alive, not to kill someone else.

If the guy already has his gun drawn and I have no chance of shooting him before he shoots me, I am not going to go for my gun. If I have the opportunity to shoot them before they shoot me, of course I will go for my gun. The object is to make it out alive, not to kill someone else.

Exactly. Cut the bravado, macho talk - I just want to LIVE.

If I deem my chances are better staying perceived as less of a risk to the perps -I'm gonna play that role to a T.

If I think my chances are better to drop like a rock and play dead after that first shot, I might just do that.


Sadly, from the video, it doesn't look like the guy had much of a chance. The perps had the advantage of surprise, firepower (multiple guns), and being "ready to fire". The guy also had nowhere to go for cover.

If the guy already has his gun drawn and I have no chance of shooting him before he shoots me, I am not going to go for my gun. If I have the opportunity to shoot them before they shoot me, of course I will go for my gun. The object is to make it out alive, not to kill someone else.

that's not what you said.

you said "If they were just there to steal stuff I would not have taken the risk to pull my gun out in the first place"

if someone has a gun out you have to assume they intend to use it.

Probably hit is artery along the spine the way he faded.

Exactly. Cut the bravado, macho talk - I just want to LIVE.

If I deem my chances are better staying perceived as less of a risk to the perps -I'm gonna play that role to a T.

If I think my chances are better to drop like a rock and play dead after that first shot, I might just do that.

it has nothing to with bravado, macho talk.

there were other people there, and YOU might have other people with you in such a situation. Most do not want the guilt of thinking it was better for them to be perceived as less of a risk or playing possum at the expense of someone else getting shot, hurt and/or killed. That's part of the responsibility some assume as an individual who carries.

Shail Kundra, a shopkeeper, and Ramesh Lavani were sitting in a jeweller's shop Sunday evening when two armed men barged in. Before Kundra could pull out his pistol, the assailants fired three bullets into him. They also fired three shots at Ramesh, police said.

They escaped while firing in the air while escaping. In the process another roadside hawker Amit was hurt. Shutters were pulled down and the whole market closed in a jiffy, police told the media.

All the three injured were taken to the emergency ward of the S.N. Medical College. While Shail Kundra succumbed to his injuries Sunday night, the other two are out of danger now, police said.

An old dispute between two families of the area is suspected to be the motive behind the incident.

Police are yet to determine the identity of the criminals.

That's too bad.

The police must suck over there, family dispute and they can't figure out who did it.

it almost appered to be "a hit" in a sence. they came in bustin off caps, they did not appear to be cncerened withanyone else, they took nothing and after shooting the guy he was kicked in the head. did not look like a robbery gone bad. it did not look like a roberry at all. drm, if you were to have played dead you prolly would have been shot again. the only way that guy was not taking bullets would would be if he was not there.

I can't see the video, so I my reply is to the comments posted.

TWO THINGS TO DO IN A GUNFIGHT
1. Seek Cover
2. Return Fire

Those should be simulataneously. As soon as you see a threat - seek cover. (any type threat - ball bat, knife, or someone preparing to fist fight). If you hear a gunshot, you should duck and get to cover.

At the same time you should be pulling your pistol (or whatever you have got) and getting ready to shoot/fight.

Here is the serious break down with many people carrying. They are conditioned to shoot paper. When the stress hits, they do what they have practiced. They lock their feet and pull the pistol. Stationary targets are much easier to hit - you just made yourself a stationary target.

The video doesn't really prove anything but sometimes you're just fucked to begin with. There's not much that guy could have done to get out of the situation other than wearing body armour.

It wasn't a robbert, it was am ambush designed to kill.

If I was in his situation I probably would have worn body armor.

I'm my number one safety... Gun only goes off it my finger gets on the trigger.......If I only touch the trigger when I point the gun at target, then the target is the only thing getting shot

I forgot to mention, that now that I'm a gun toting security officer. The client(aka Uncle Sam) says I need to carry chambered. If the client thinks its necessary at a place where it would be retarded to attack, then why wouldn't it be necessary in times where an attack is least expected? We had a number of people in the qualification class who would forget to chamber rounds on courses of fire. Its a controlled environment, what makes me think I'm not capable of forgetting to chamber a round in a high stress, uncontrollable situation? Nuff said?

Because that company would rather the security guard to get killed in the line of duty, opposed to accidently shooting someone which would cost their insurance millions and tarnish their reputation. It may also prevent them from bidding on future contracts.

So they have policies that are beneficial to the company in the long run opposed to realisticly dealing with an armed threat. Those guards are there for looks and a deterent, not to actually take action.

Because that company would rather the security guard to get killed in the line of duty, opposed to accidently shooting someone which would cost their insurance millions and tarnish their reputation. It may also prevent them from bidding on future contracts.

So they have policies that are beneficial to the company in the long run opposed to realisticly dealing with an armed threat. Those guards are there for looks and a deterent, not to actually take action.

Actually I think they actually care... I'm getting fitted for level 4 body armor today:laughing::laughing:(Please insert mall ninja, 338 lapua, gecko45, or any other comments)
I'm not even joking that I'm getting fitted. This is all requirements for the site)
Apparently something like $200K is being dropped on body armor