Interesting timing, coming on the heels of Cav Arms' announcement this week that they are leaving the manufacturing business, due to the BATF's egregious assault on them.


http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2010/2/17/feds_raid_defense_contractor


Feds raid defense contractor
Agents pay morning visit to Nashville arms manufacturer

Email | Print By Ken Whitehouse


02-17-2010 10:39 AM —
Federal law enforcement agents, led by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, descended on Nashville's Sabre Defence Industries this morning and closed down the facility for at least the day.

Sabre manufactures firearms and firearm parts and accessories. It is contracted by the U.S. armed forces for parts and mounts for the M2 Browning .50-caliber machine gun and Minigun. In addition to its government contracts, it produces the XR15 rifle, non-standard M4 Carbines, and non-standard M16A4s.

Law enforcement officials were seen escorting employees one by one of the company out of their 35,000-square-foot facility on Allied Drive. Each employee was searched next to their personal vehicle, had their vehicle searched and, when cleared, were allowed to leave the premises. No individuals were witnessed being arrested.

After almost all of the employees had left the premises, agents brought in a trailer and backed it up to the company's loading dock.

Reached for comment, federal law enforcement officials declined to comment on their actions and would not specify what the focus of their investigation is.

United Kingdom-based Sabre acquired the Nashville facility in 2002 but had been making military 0.50-caliber barrels and guns since 1979, as well as commercial rifle barrels for various companies. Guy Savage is the CEO and owner of the company, and the Nashville facility is managed by Charles Shearon.

In December of last year, Aerospace Manufacturing Services of Colorado filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee claiming that it is owed $1.05 million for 2,400 .50-calibre machine gun firing bolts.

According to previous media reports, the company employed approximately 85 individuals at its Nashville facility.

WOW!
These guys have been around for a while.
Like usual nothing else will be posted about it. "information wise" Tuff time to be a builder.

Wow, is this the same Sabre that makes awesome AR15? I believe it is. If so never realized they were British company.
What is kinda scary here is this company is a large .mil part supplier.

Remember......

Always

Think

Forfeiture

Wow, is this the same Sabre that makes awesome AR15? I believe it is. If so never realized they were British company.
What is kinda scary here is this company is a large .mil part supplier.

Yes it is. They were also awarded an M16 contract by the DOD. I believe they also make M60 barrels.

They also manufacture the US compliance parts (reciever, barrel(?), etc for the Steyr Aug A3.) I wonder what will happen with that??

While I know the Guys at Cav Arms wanted to keep the drama low surrounding their fiasco, I hope there is more information available on this one. The more people know what is going on, the better prepared we are to stop abuses of power. And nobody abuses power like the ATF.

I wonder what would happen if the Justice Department set up a Bureau of Writing, Literature, and News, and began raiding and shutting down local and national newspapers for petty infractions.

I know there is no official word on what Cav-Arms' transgression was, but the rumor swirling around circles here in AZ is that someone mispelled Cavalry as Calvary" on official forms. No idea of the truth or not. But that's a hell of a reason to shut down a vet owned business seize all their belongings and bankrupt the owner. :( :mad3:

Like that couldn't be taken care of with an apology, $0.0001 worth of ink, and a couple of postage stamps.

I wonder what would happen if the Justice Department set up a Bureau of Writing, Literature, and News, and began raiding and shutting down local and national newspapers for petty infractions.

isn't there an amendment to the COTUS about that :confused:

From a local TN gun board:

Word is the only way something like this comes down is the BATF believes that there are missing complete firearms that are not properly documented and filed. Either through Sabre not filling proper paperwork or something going out the back door illegally. They would have more than a hunch and may very well have evidence in the form of testimony from an individual with inside knowledge. That is not to say that Sabre did anything illegal at this point. It could be that the management of Sabre was not even involved or knowledgeable of the issues.

Inside word is that BATF would not be there in relation to financial issues. Now if the IRS was part of the deal that might be the case but so far I have not heard or seen any information related to that.

And...

Have heard from a couple of people the ATF went in on a sealed warrant. So the management of Sabre still doesn't know what they are facing..

From a local TN gun board:



And...

HTF is a sealed warrant legal?

HTF is a sealed warrant legal?

Same way forfeiture is: by the fact that the .gov can fight it in court way longer than you can afford to. :mad3:

Have heard from a couple of people the ATF went in on a sealed warrant. So the management of Sabre still doesn't know what they are facing..



That's the ATF's MO.

It took the ATF over two full YEARS to let Cav Arms know why they were raided. In the meantime, all of their business and personal assets were sitting in a BATF warehouse.

So much for due process.

Wasn't one of the guys picked up at SHOT 2010 from Sabre? Could this be stemming from that?

They searched individuals and the individuals personal vehicles.

'the glovebox is locked
so is the trunk in the back
I know my rights
you gonna need a warrant for that'

So. Do you think the warrant was for every employee along with the company? Or were they going off of the plain sight rule?

If there is an accusation of missing weapons, it could be likely the warrant included employees vehicles. Kinda like the old song about taking a Cadillac home in your lunch box, or whatever it was.

A post on ARFcom says this raid may be due to employees 'acquiring' parts and then selling them with out a FFL. That would explain the search of the employees.

Found the post:

NASHVILLE, Tenn., February 17, 2010 – Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre's commercial customers.

A post on ARFcom says this raid may be due to employees 'acquiring' parts and then selling them with out a FFL. That would explain the search of the employees.

Found the post:

NASHVILLE, Tenn., February 17, 2010 – Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre's commercial customers.

I would think that the only part you need an FFL to sell is a lower reciever? Unless maybe someone was selling machine gun parts?

I would think that the only part you need an FFL to sell is a lower reciever? Unless maybe someone was selling machine gun parts?

Full-auto parts is where I would put money. Still traceable (I think) but so easy to put in your pocket and walk out the door. Then, who knows which of the 120 took them or if they fell off a shelf somewhere. Receivers would be a little more difficult to conceal.

I like to think I wouldn't do it but working in a company like that would sure present a strong temptation to build a small personal arsenal.

Full-auto parts is where I would put money. Still traceable (I think) but so easy to put in your pocket and walk out the door. Then, who knows which of the 120 took them or if they fell off a shelf somewhere. Receivers would be a little more difficult to conceal.

I like to think I wouldn't do it but working in a company like that would sure present a strong temptation to build a small personal arsenal.

Aren't MG parts just a sensitive item? i.e. possessing an AR and an unregistered LL or DIAS would get you charged with "constructive intent". Having an unregistered DIAS and no AR or similar rifle is perfectly legal, though it may cause you hassles right? I'm a bit fuzzy on that part, it's been a while since we hashed it out.

EDIT: If the weapons were "non-saleable" how and why were they sold to employees? Did they hold individual SOTs?

Full-auto parts is where I would put money. Still traceable (I think) but so easy to put in your pocket and walk out the door. Then, who knows which of the 120 took them or if they fell off a shelf somewhere. Receivers would be a little more difficult to conceal.

I like to think I wouldn't do it but working in a company like that would sure present a strong temptation to build a small personal arsenal.

Auto/burst M16 parts aren't serialized that I know of, and are effectively untraceable.

No doubt working there would present quite the temptation, but I would think it'd also come with an education on the consequences of getting caught. Getting fired is one thing; getting fired and charged with multiple weapons related felonies, is a little bigger deal.

Physically carrying out a receiver, particularly in wintertime when clothes are bulkier, wouldn't be that hard either.

If weapons were unsaleable due to being machine guns, and employees took them home, that'd be very bad.

A DIAS is itself a machine gun according to ATF, with or without a host gun. Full auto parts in the presence of the gun model that they go to, are "constructive intent". No AR to put them in, no crime. Interestingly, this doesn't seem to ever be pushed with AK stuff--the AK receiver is what makes or breaks the "machine gun" claim, not the presence of the sear, retarder, auto-ready carrier, etc. The full auto AK disconnector may be a make/break item, though; I've never seen an intact one shipped with a parts kit.

They searched individuals and the individuals personal vehicles.

'the glovebox is locked
so is the trunk in the back
I know my rights
you gonna need a warrant for that'

So. Do you think the warrant was for every employee along with the company? Or were they going off of the plain sight rule?

My frst thought when reading that article was about the personal property searches.
My car is my property, not the companies. Unless you have a warrant that specifically mentions my car I'd have to say that's some BS.
A blanket "sealed" warrant that allows access to every car on the lot is bullshit.
What if a .mil rep happened to be there that day, did they search that car too?

A DIAS is itself a machine gun according to ATF, with or without a host gun. Full auto parts in the presence of the gun model that they go to, are "constructive intent". No AR to put them in, no crime. Interestingly, this doesn't seem to ever be pushed with AK stuff--the AK receiver is what makes or breaks the "machine gun" claim, not the presence of the sear, retarder, auto-ready carrier, etc. The full auto AK disconnector may be a make/break item, though; I've never seen an intact one shipped with a parts kit.

You probably already know this buuuuuuuut....
A drop in auto sear and a regular auto sear are two totally different items.

Considering the nature of what Sabre produced, I see no reason why they would even have drop in auto sears on site. Regular auto sears, sure, but they're no different than a plain AK auto sear that can't be installed without a bunch of machine work on the receiver.

You probably already know this buuuuuuuut....
A drop in auto sear and a regular auto sear are two totally different items.

Considering the nature of what Sabre produced, I see no reason why they would even have drop in auto sears on site. Regular auto sears, sure, but they're no different than a plain AK auto sear that can't be installed without a bunch of machine work on the receiver.

Correct on the DIAS vs regular sear, and I also see no reason why Sabre would've had LL's, DIAS's, or any other "aftermarket" full-auto conversion stuff, as they have the licensing to do it as the original design, and the milspec, call for. My comment on the DIAS side was intended to answer Pony Driver's question about an unregistered DIAS + AR = constructive intent, which isn't the case. An unregistered DIAS = jailtime even without an AR into which to put it. It's the full auto sear and related goodies, in proximity to a non-full-auto AR, that gets "constructive intent".

Even if it wasn't related to full-auto, just regular stuff, if employees were taking home "seconds" of serial'd items without proper paperwork, that'd be a problem; if full-auto stuff was "loaned" to employees, that might be a problem as well. I don't know if Sabre makes anything that's considered "classified" or "secret" or the like (guess that's part of the point of it being "secret") but if employees took home non-serial'd "secret" or even just "sensitive" stuff, that could also be a problem, though probably not within ATF's jurisdiction.

And the official poop from the CEO of Sabre:


To end the speculation. I would be most grateful if you would post this on the AR15.com forum. We released this to the media yesterday in response to what was going on. I was in my office till 4 am working through this with the US facility and my lawyers.

Thanks

Guy Savage CEO

Sabre Defence Industries



NASHVILLE, Tenn., February 17, 2010 – Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre's commercial customers.

Sounds like some inventory clerks are about to take it in the kiester.

Correct on the DIAS vs regular sear, and I also see no reason why Sabre would've had LL's, DIAS's, or any other "aftermarket" full-auto conversion stuff, as they have the licensing to do it as the original design, and the milspec, call for. My comment on the DIAS side was intended to answer Pony Driver's question about an unregistered DIAS + AR = constructive intent, which isn't the case. An unregistered DIAS = jailtime even without an AR into which to put it. It's the full auto sear and related goodies, in proximity to a non-full-auto AR, that gets "constructive intent".

Even if it wasn't related to full-auto, just regular stuff, if employees were taking home "seconds" of serial'd items without proper paperwork, that'd be a problem; if full-auto stuff was "loaned" to employees, that might be a problem as well. I don't know if Sabre makes anything that's considered "classified" or "secret" or the like (guess that's part of the point of it being "secret") but if employees took home non-serial'd "secret" or even just "sensitive" stuff, that could also be a problem, though probably not within ATF's jurisdiction.

I meant an unregistered DIAS, not an RDIAS.

A drop in auto sear of any variety isn't something that Sabre would produce. They make weapons for the .gov that have real autosears, not the BS retrofit piece for neutered rifles that the 1980s spawned.

So that M2 I bought out of the back of a van in Nashville might not be legit?

I meant an unregistered DIAS, not an RDIAS.

That's what I thought; an unregistered DIAS is itself contraband--an illegal machine gun in ATF's eyes, so "constructive intent" isn't needed, they just prosecute it as the illegal machine gun they claim it to be. There's not (presently) any restriction other than "constructive intent" case law, on posession of a real select-fire M16 FCG--an unlicensed individual may buy, and have, those parts; they're just parts, useless without a receiver. It's ATF's "constructive intent" case law interpretation that gets one into trouble, but even that, only if the parts are near an AR15 lower (though I think ATF considers "owned by the same person" to be "near enough" no matter how physically far apart they may be).

From the press release, it sounds like one (or more) of Sabre's inventory clerks may have taken a few extra bucks on the side to "mistakenly" sell a select-fire gun in place of a semi-only gun on an employee-purchase deal. I could be misreading it, though, and it could be as innocent as somebody who works there, hooking up an employee-purchase deal for a friend, which would make the employee an unlicensed dealer. Still a problem for Sabre if they "should have known" that the employee in question was lying on the 4473.

FYI, Sabre is back open and doing business as of this morning - according to the local news.

Seems like Sabre was in full cooperation with the Feds on this one.

http://business.nashvillepost.com/wp...tatement-2.pdf

NASHVILLE, Tenn., February 19, 2010 – On February 17, 2010, Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, was informed that employees of Sabre are suspected of illegally re-selling non-saleable and non-military items, that such employees purchased from Sabre, that were otherwise to be discarded as scrap. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

The federal agents completed their on-site investigation on February 18, 2010 and Sabre resumed normal operations today. Sabre is confident that any production backlog will be brought back to schedule over the next few days. The federal agents conducted their on-site investigation in a courteous manner with a sensitivity to the critical work Sabre is doing for the United States military. Sabre is conducting an internal investigation into this matter and is taking steps necessary to prevent future employee misuse or theft of parts.

Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre’s commercial customers.

http://business.nashvillepost.com/wp...tatement-2.pdf

NASHVILLE, Tenn., February 19, 2010 – On February 17, 2010, Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, was informed that employees of Sabre are suspected of illegally re-selling non-saleable and non-military items, that such employees purchased from Sabre, that were otherwise to be discarded as scrap. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

The federal agents completed their on-site investigation on February 18, 2010 and Sabre resumed normal operations today. Sabre is confident that any production backlog will be brought back to schedule over the next few days. The federal agents conducted their on-site investigation in a courteous manner with a sensitivity to the critical work Sabre is doing for the United States military. Sabre is conducting an internal investigation into this matter and is taking steps necessary to prevent future employee misuse or theft of parts.

Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre’s commercial customers.

If it was non-saleable, then why was it sold to the employees? Is that the point of contention, or is it that the employees re-sold the items?

If it was non-saleable, then why was it sold to the employees? Is that the point of contention, or is it that the employees re-sold the items?

I think... and I'm just guessing here... that there is a difference between "non-saleable" and "non-possesible"

Kind of like manufacturing AKs on receivers with no serial. Fine for personal consumption, but becomes an issue if you are selling them with intent to turn a profit.

Once again, vague laws written by idiots who don't understand the very items they are regulating cause more harm than good.

FYI, Sabre is back open and doing business as of this morning - according to the local news.

Seems like Sabre was in full cooperation with the Feds on this one.

That's great to hear. When the news broke, it was a little too reminiscent of other ATF abuses of power. I'm glad that this was not the case this time. Sabre makes some good stuff.

So that M2 I bought out of the back of a van in Nashville might not be legit?

Well that's a risky little joke, now isn't it.
I know, and you know - but "they" may not know.

Let us know if any men in suits show up, ok?
:laughing: