Ok,

So my new shaft is in, and I still have a pinion issue to deal with. I would rather handle this myself rather than by something, but I am concerned with safety since this rig sees a lot of trip time.

Can I just rose-bud the end of the arm and offset it myself? I was just always threatened with a fate worse than death if I ever took a torch to a customers suspension components to even loosen a stuck part.

What about plating the existing mounts and then redrilling for the needed adjustment. I am not concerned about caster as I drive like an old lady on the freeway.

j

caster has nothing to do with driving like an old lady on the freeway, it has more to do with around town and back roads. i suggest that you do deal with your caster, as it makes the truck VERY twitchy even at around 50mph... less than granny speed.

Originally posted by 9V
caster has nothing to do with driving like an old lady on the freeway, it has more to do with around town and back roads. i suggest that you do deal with your caster, as it makes the truck VERY twitchy even at around 50mph... less than granny speed.

When you get over thirty 9v, I think you will stop driving "around town at 50mph"

I have been driving this vehicle with over 4degrees for 6 years 9v, and it sits at near 6.5 degrees positive right now if I remember correctly from the last time that I swung castor on the rack, I'm blonde though, and can't always remember correctly.

Caster effects the "quickness" of the steering at all speeds. It can be countered and made to be more effective with camber adjustments, which are not adjustable on rovers, oh nevermind.

:rolleyes: did i also say backroads? maybe you call a two lane, double yellow road something else in colorado, but i couldnt think of a better way to word it.

if you can deal with the quickness in the steering then by all means do it, i was just voicing my opinion that it was way too twitchy. how much lift are you running, 4"?

Almost five.

ah.... Am I missing something?

OK, I just need a bit of clarification. Being new to this particular board, I of course do not understand the underlying humor and personalities of most of the members. That being said, I just wanted some clarification on this Adam Check guy. From what I have heard, he does not own the particular rover that he talks so frequently about and out of those on this board is probably not the most knowledgable when it come to answering technical questions. However, when ever I read through a thread, the opinionated Adam Check always seems to lend a not so constructive word. Is it just me? Maybe I am overly critical. Is it too much to ask for a constructive answer to a question? Being young myself, I am often concious of this before posting, trying to consider that others might have a more in depth opinion based on experience. Well, those are just my thoughts, let me know if I am out of line in my opinion.:confused:

Untrakdrover ,having just screwed up myself on another thread ,I'm thinking that was a brave call my son .Sh!t I hope you like the taste of humble pie ,cause we aint got fries to go with it .
21 posts and into smacking already........you get right to the kinky stuff straight away don't you .


Sh!t ,hurry up 9v .........I can hardly bear the suspenders ....whoops ,meant suspence .

Originally posted by redrangie
Ok,

So my new shaft is in, and I still have a pinion issue to deal with. I would rather handle this myself rather than by something, but I am concerned with safety since this rig sees a lot of trip time.

Can I just rose-bud the end of the arm and offset it myself? I was just always threatened with a fate worse than death if I ever took a torch to a customers suspension components to even loosen a stuck part.

What about plating the existing mounts and then redrilling for the needed adjustment. I am not concerned about caster as I drive like an old lady on the freeway.

j


My .02 cents .Take the front ? radius arms to a place that aligns front axles on semis and have them bend it .This is how they correct the camber on semis and any ' I ' beam front axle on early pick-ups .As we've found that the castor is not your main worry .If you do want to 'fix' the castor ,the drive flanges off of a series has the same bolt circle as the swivel on a rangie so you have a jig .

HTH .

Originally posted by untrakdrover
ah.... Am I missing something?

OK, I just need a bit of clarification. Being new to this particular board, I of course do not understand the underlying humor and personalities of most of the members. That being said, I just wanted some clarification on this Adam Check guy. From what I have heard, he does not own the particular rover that he talks so frequently about and out of those on this board is probably not the most knowledgable when it come to answering technical questions. However, when ever I read through a thread, the opinionated Adam Check always seems to lend a not so constructive word. Is it just me? Maybe I am overly critical. Is it too much to ask for a constructive answer to a question? Being young myself, I am often concious of this before posting, trying to consider that others might have a more in depth opinion based on experience. Well, those are just my thoughts, let me know if I am out of line in my opinion.:confused:

Just remembered ..you can delete yours .

Dear untrakd-

All I know about you is that you are one of Mike's friends and that you are from Portland. How do you claim to know so much about me?

I may not own the rig of which I speak, but how does that disqualify me from having technical knowledge? I suggest that you fast change your views about younger Land Rover enthusiasts, because they are, quite frankly, wrong. I am friends with another member of this forum who is a Land Rover enthusiast and is but a year older than I am. Does this make us of lesser intelligence?

Please support your beliefs, as I am quite intrigued into knowing if you may be correct. After all, I have been known to be wrong before, and have admitted that on other occasions.

You may own a "cooler" Land Rover than I, or you may be older than I, but might I ask you what age of person has more enthusiasm than a ten year old boy? Because that is all that I was when I was first introduced to Land Rovers and their qualms. I can almost assure you that when you take into account my actual lack of Land Rover ownership and "real world experience", I do know more than you. But again I may be wrong since I have not met you or heard much of you.

In your post you say that I do not add a constructive word, might I ask what you were doing in replying to this thread?

So, in conclusion, I ask you to support your beliefs and defend them as neccessary. I also must ask that you please state your beef with me.

Thank you for your time.

Adam Check

yes...i must say...Adam(9V) is very knowledgeable...i ask him stuff all the time, and he always helps...

just my $.02

will r

I raise no beef, quite simply a question. I also feel a more thorough reading of my previous message is in order. In no way did I claim to know you, I simply stated an observation based on my limited time reading this board. As to your knowledge, my statement was solely based on the depth and relivance of your responses. Your comment regarding the fact that my Discovery is "cooler" than your lent vehicle has baffled me. I really dont see any bearing for this argument, however, I will take the nice compliment to heart. Regarding the age argument, I feel this is null an void, quite simply a bit of background in my earlier statement. Besides, one cannot argue that an individual with more time invested in the technical side of rovers would not have more knowledge. As for myself, I point out that I too am rather young when compared to my peers, so I can assure you I am not discriminating solely on this particular point. As I said earleir, I do feel it helps to bring a little background to the message and invoke a certain understanding of maturity level. Lastly I appologize to all that have to read this message in this unrelated thread. Proper eitquette would have been to start a new thread, however, at the time, I felt I needed to say something. Thank you all and I hope to not take up any more space on this particular conversation, I feel I have substantiated my arguments adequatly for this type of discussion.

Heck, I guess anyone that knows me is now guilty by assocation.

Bummer for them I suppose.

Well thanks you Mike for reminding me, I did forget to address that point. I must raise the issue that in my posts, below my username on the left, it says Seattle, Wa. Also, I have been reading this board since July. I did not however meet Mike until our little rendez-vous in Moab. So yes, friendly people may be guilty by association, but I assure you in no way was my opinion developed based on my friendship with Mike Slade.

Wow,

My Internet goes down for awhile, and I come back to this. Thanks for the On-topic response Fug, I appreciate it. I completely forgot about that. I have a contact at just such a place, and I will call him tomorrow. :beer:

Now, on to the juicy bits: :D

9v, this is twice now that you have started (willingly or un-willingly) shiat in a thread of mine. How this comes about I don't know. I won't result to personal insult stuff here. However, I would suggest that some introspection is in order.

It is no secret that your reputation proceeds you. Maybe you should dwell on why that is, and then be mindfull of it. An old trick, read what you have typed 3 times before you send it, just to make sure. Sorry if I am sounding like a "dad" here, but I am one. I can not count the number of times that I have deleted whole posts that I spent ten minutes typing, because I re-thought their value. Another pearl: "it is better to be quiet and thought the fool, rather than open ones mouth and remove all doubt"

Look, I could've roasted you for that ignorant reply about caster and its relative speed characteristics, but I didn't. I started to, but I didn't. I won't go into what I know about suspension, because I am quite insignifigant compared to others here, and I don't want them to stop educating me on what I don't know.

You are very fortunate to have a family that is involved in Rovers. You are exposed to quite a lot of equipment, tools, work area, vehicles, and knowledge. Just try and soak more in, without spewing it out at the wrong or inappropriate time. :(

Why not a pm? I don't know, maybe I wanted equal airtime in hijacking my own thread. ;)

Untrak,
I think it took 25 posts for 9v to piss in my wheaties. I think it's a right of passage here. :flipoff2:

Finally a voice of reason.

Brad (not tall Brad)

Mr. RedRangie,

You have a delema...The likes of which you will need to either leave alone and get used to it, or take "drastic" measures.

You just bought a nice looking 1350 double cardon drive-shaft. In order to have the phase of the remaining single u-joint cancel itself out, you must run the pinion in line with the drive shaft...(bear with me I know you know this already, but this is for others too that might not know).

Now, the only really feasable way to correct your, excesive possitive castor, is to rotate the axle back...You can't do this more than a couple of degree's without having the vibrations return which you plunked down the $ to eliminate.

If I was concerned with the effects of castor and handeling on the highway, I would have my swivle assemblies filled and re-drilled to move the "knuckles" back while retaining the pinion angle were it needs to be. I can't imagine the cost for that process to be all that expensive, and would correctly fix your problem.

You can bend/extend/tweak your radius arms all you want, but to correct castor you will eventually bring your pinion angle down to the point were your single u-joint starts causing those nasty vibes we all know and love.

Fill and drill...Re-install...Done forever (until you change your ride height again...but that 's a different (but related) story).

--D

Originally posted by RockRover
Mr. RedRangie,

You can bend/extend/tweak your radius arms all you want, but to correct castor you will eventually bring your pinion angle down to the point were your single u-joint starts causing those nasty vibes we all know and love.

Fill and drill...Re-install...Done forever (until you change your ride height again...but that 's a different (but related) story).

--D

That is in the works, the swivel ball that is. I am only concerned with the pinion problem in the short term. I still have noise and SLIGHT vibes on decel/accel and need to correct that asap. The Swivel thing is not happening until my *$#&@(* house gets sold.

I aggree that the swivel is the best way. I have an alignment rack at my disposal, and I might entertain elongaiting the holes to allow adustable castor. With the bolt problem that is there, and proper tourque and fastners, I don't think that will be an issue.

So back to the pinion thing, will bending the ends work in the short term and be safe.

j

Redrangie,

I have heard that heating the arms and bending them can actually weaken them. I had the same problem as you when i lifted my Disco 4". What i did is cut the arms in two places, beveled them and filled in the cuts with 100% weld. After that I boxed it with 1/4" steel. Now, the only hard part is making sure that your angles and what not are correct.
Also, when you bend the arms, or cut them, you need to make sure that you keep pinion angle pointing straight at the driveshaft. Depending on how much you lifted the truck you might also want to lengthen the radius arms so your front wheels won't be right up against the backside of your fender.
Just in case i am wrong or have given out mis-information, check with some people who have done this more than once, but as far as me, they have worked fine, and i haven't had any vibes.


Brad (not tall Brad)

thank you for the parental approach red. the "try not too spew it at innappropriate times" suggestion is well taken, and no i am not being sarcastic.

mike and josh- by no means i am saying that being friends with mike is a bad thing, something worthy of the term "guilty by association". i have no bad feelings towards mike and i would hope that he has lessened bad feelings towards me since we worked things out in private email a few weeks back. excuse my incorrect assumption of you two knowing each other long, i was under the impression from posts here that you had known each other for some time. my bad on that one.

red (again)- i am sorry for hijacking your thread again, but it always seem that i am in the wrong place at the wrong time :D

will try not to do it again. group hug :flipoff2:

*sniffle*

;)

Originally posted by WBDISCO
Also, when you bend the arms, or cut them, you need to make sure that you keep pinion angle pointing straight at the driveshaft. Depending on how much you lifted the truck you might also want to lengthen the radius arms so your front wheels won't be right up against the backside of your fender.
Brad (not tall Brad)


I don't get it...How is all of that correcting castor? Answer...It's not.

I don't think this was a thread about vibrations...It was started as a discussion on how to correct castor...Essentially YOU CAN'T if you are running a double cardon drive shaft and any appreciable lift.

The only way to correct this is to turn your knuckles back...End of story.

Of course 9V's and SO's love fest may continue...I dunno..:flipoff2:

--D

D,

Watch out man, I'm doing TAXES and I"m not in a good MOOD!!!!!

:flipoff2:

I have had my arms cut and re-welded and it did correct caster. It did NOT correct pinion angle.

Didn't we decide that correcting the arms actually DOES correct caster, but it is counter productive to correcting pinion angle?

To correct both didn't we decide that you have to rotate the knuckles instead of correcting the arms?

And FWIW my love fest with 9v hasn't officially begun. (I just pulled a 'redrangie' and erased 15 lines of text that could potentially get ugly, so after having a personal chuckle, I'm just left with telling you that I did write something, but retracted it before it got sent)

BUT, my beef with him is over, so my personal opinions of him should remain just that. Personal.

Just so you know, I do love you though.

;)

My 2 cents worth.

Cut and shut front radias arms to set pinion anle then correct castor by rotating swivell housing fill and redrill. You could slot holes then dowell after setting up.

Neither one on its own will corect both.

Regards
Michael.

Yea...What he said!

Yes you can bend the radius arms and not compromise the strength - significantly.

Friend Neville did this job himself and he is very thorough lad - got it all certified by our MOT [ministry of transport] who are even more thorough:D

He ended up getting a heat treatment expert to test the hardness of the treated metal and it passed - turns out the damn things are pretty soft anyway....

here is his link to his lift - his eMail is on this page and I am sure he would be more than happy to answer any questions - he always helps me out:D

http://home.off-road.com/~highrange/Modifications/Range_Rover_Suspension_Lift/range_rover_suspension_lift.html

Good luck
dick

Rockrover,

We are miscommunicating. I don't want to correct castor right now. However, when I do, I will find a way to make the swivel adjustable you can rest assured.


I NEED to correct Pinion angle. I am going to look at that site, then I will look at re-doing the brackets. I think that changing the arm is probably the easiest, and will probably go that route. I will probably end up firing up the torch. Hopefully with pictures, this weekend.

j

Redrangie,

Remember, by bending the arms you are effectively shortening them.

I don't know if that matters much to you right now to accomplish your short term goal of correcting pinion angle, but maybe that'll factor into how you do the repair?

Sorry if it's been mentioned before.

Originally posted by RockRover


Now, the only really feasable way to correct your, excesive possitive castor, is to rotate the axle back...You can't do this more than a couple of degree's without having the vibrations return which you plunked down the $ to eliminate.

If I was concerned with the effects of castor and handeling on the highway, I would have my swivle assemblies filled and re-drilled to move the "knuckles" back while retaining the pinion angle were it needs to be. I can't imagine the cost for that process to be all that expensive, and would correctly fix your problem.

Maybe I missed someone already mentioning this, but this does exactly that.

http://www.rovertym.com/ccorrection.htm

Of course, the original problem was one of pinion angle. Re-indexing your balls (!) only corrects castor WITHOUT further screwing up said pinion angle.

Disclaimer - I don't know 9V, SO (but I wheel with one of SO's friends) OR have a 13" shlong, but may border on WT tendencies...

keith
:usa: