What is your ideal setup? I'm going SOA in the next couple of weeks, with stock width Scout axles; in the future I'd like to go full width D60 in the rear, and full width D44 in the front. I may save the IH truck housing for use in a full width swap, or cut it down to Scout II width.

So lets here it, what you got, what you want

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

right now:

'78 II: dana 44's, open,3.54's rear drums. all stock

'88 Mustang: ford 7.5. drums, otherwise I don't know

Later: possibly 44/14bolt into scout. unlikely as I'll probably just fix and sell it.

'stang: 8.8 or 9" w/ discs. gonna drop a couple grand into this one including engine and sell.

197X travelall, wagonmaster, or similar: I wanna find this for tow rig. exuvilent of 44/14 bolt setup, 4.10's rear drums. if 14 has LS i'll keep it, but not gonna waste cash on one.

196X scout: dana 60 front, 14 bolt or 60 rear, whichever I find first. ARB in both ends, 4.56 gears. maybe 4 wheel discs.

got a question here. Mark just told me he has a set of dana 60 FF axles. I've seen a YJ with a front 60 that they used the rear axle to build off of, and I'm guessing this would be cheaper. If I was to do this, would it basically be cut short side, add new long side tube, add inner and outer knuckles, brakes and hubs, perches, and install? just need to order new shafts then? where can I get the outboard parts needed?

Right now 30/44 drum/drum 3.73 gonna be 44/14 disc/drum 4.10 Fullwidths.

My current plan is to build the truck using what I have and some mods. So SOA is in order with the stock axle housings, unless i can find a deal on a mid chevy Dana 44 front axle. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Make the SOA a little nicer. I will be running what ever gears I have along with the trashloc. Since i have an extra trashloc I will put that in the front axle. I would like to do a little work and end up with an internal hub from a F150 on the front, but have not worked out the parts yet.
Someday <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> I would like to go to DANA 60's front and rear. With Detroit Locker in back and a ARB in the front. But hey anyone can dream. <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">
Ritch

Now:

Front-->D44 from a waggoneer approx 62" wide

Rear-->D60 semifloat from a 67 heavy duty F100 Approx 62" wide

Who knows what the future will bring <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
I am really hoping for something to happen for these 44's so I don't have to put a 60 in the front.

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Scout Dude ]

Originally posted by NotQuiteSane:
<STRONG>

got a question here. Mark just told me he has a set of dana 60 FF axles. I've seen a YJ with a front 60 that they used the rear axle to build off of, and I'm guessing this would be cheaper. If I was to do this, would it basically be cut short side, add new long side tube, add inner and outer knuckles, brakes and hubs, perches, and install? just need to order new shafts then? where can I get the outboard parts needed?</STRONG>

The outers and the C's are the hard part to find. If you know how to get a hold of all of this, then go for it.

I think if you had the D 60 center section The rest would be pretty easy.

You could use D60 knuckles off of a ford and the axleshafts as well (ford; because they're easier to find) Nice thing about that is you get the better brakes too.

Although I'm not sure what Scout Dude means by "C's" I imagine those could be had off of the ford stuff.

I've been thinking about this for awhile since I've spotted about 3-4 D60's at this sweet junkyard that NO ONE ELSE ever goes to.
The guy is like 75 years old and sooo ready to retire. That's where I got my sweet deal of a quarter panel.

What would youdo for "new" tubes though????

What kind of material and what size etc.. etc????

Nice thing about this idea is that you would automatically get whatever width axle you need right off the bat.

I'm with Scout Dude on this one. If you want a front D60, just buy one. I've seen them as low as $500 (actually I've seen them lower than that, till they guy realises what they are worth). But you can pick them up all day for around $1000. You would have more than that into just all the outer parts if you tried to build on yourself, unless you scored on some parts "kicking around" or some other strange sircumstance.

Besides.. I'm seeing some COOL stuff with/for D44's from this site....


As for ME and axles:

Current: D44's F/R w 4.10.
Future: Custom RC D44 front, ARB, ~ 62" wide, Rear, D60-2 out of a t-all/pu (also 62"), 35-spline, probably discs. Spool or ARB. 4.54 gears in both (4.88's get weak in a D44).

Then look at a second t-case....... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>I think if you had the D 60 center section The rest would be pretty easy.

You could use D60 knuckles off of a ford and the axleshafts as well (ford; because they're easier to find) Nice thing about that is you get the better brakes too.

Although I'm not sure what Scout Dude means by "C's" I imagine those could be had off of the ford stuff.

I've been thinking about this for awhile since I've spotted about 3-4 D60's at this sweet junkyard that NO ONE ELSE ever goes to.
The guy is like 75 years old and sooo ready to retire. That's where I got my sweet deal of a quarter panel.</STRONG>


hmmm.... OOOOO-REEAAALLLYYY...


what can you get a Ford '60 for??? You want to score one, wack off the ends and send them to me?? Got plenty of D60's to make one out of..... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

As for tubes, if your going this route, you may as well go all the way: Chrome Moly. Lighter, stronger, and not *that* expencive. Plus it adds that extra "zoot" factor <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>
Rear-->D60 semifloat from a 67 heavy duty F100 Approx 62" wide

</STRONG>

NOOOOOOOO There 19 spline!

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>
hmmm.... OOOOO-REEAAALLLYYY...


what can you get a Ford '60 for??? You want

</STRONG>

Heck, I'll take the whole thing. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

<STRONG>
As for tubes, if your going this route, you may as well go all the way: Chrome Moly. Lighter, stronger, and not *that* expencive. </STRONG>

ouch. Didn't I hear Brandon on here say that the 3"x.500 DOM for his HD '44 retubing project was $$$$ ($20/ft?).. I wonder what 4130 would cost in that size.

And the Vaseline is an extra-cost option.

Still.. it *WOULD* be <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

Parts and labor from Currie for a retube with 3.25"-.250 is 189.95 .

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>What is your ideal setup? I'm going SOA in the next couple of weeks, with stock width Scout axles; in the future I'd like to go full width D60 in the rear, and full width D44 in the front. I may save the IH truck housing for use in a full width swap, or cut it down to Scout II width.

So lets here it, what you got, what you want

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


After attending rock crawl this week, I am afraid D60 is the only way to go, if you are into that kind of abuse.

On the other hand, my 44's will hold up fine for the trail runs I do.

70's and 80's hang down too far. We got hung up on a lot of stuff.

Patrick

Originally posted by Old Scout:
<STRONG>NOOOOOOOO There 19 spline!</STRONG>

I didn't pull mine out of the truck, I was just told that this is what it is out of. When I picked up brake parts, they were for a 67.

However, I have pulled the axles and they are currently 30 spline. It doesn't matter though...I will have 35 spline axles soon enough. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>What is your ideal setup?
So lets here it, what you got, what you want
</STRONG>

"Tigger" - 4.09 SII 44/44, LR/Trashlok
Near-term - Regear the FF60 to 4.56 for the rear, retube the Ford HP44 front for the pass-side diff, 4.56s, 8-lug. Why? Relatively cheap and I have most of the parts
Long-term -

Come on now, everyone say it with me..

SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY! SIXTY!

Up front, of course. 8-lug, big-brakes. HP wouldn't hurt, but if I'm honest with myself, that won't happen this decade..

"Little Devil" - fullwidth 44s front/rear, 4.88s, open/open. Well, half of a FW 44 up front.
Near-term - TRUSSED '44 front (Sunday!).

Otherwise, the axle stay as they are. If I had too much $$$, I'd ARB front/rear, but I don't.

"BUGM" - full width 44s, 3.73.
Either scrap it, or upgrade to a Chevy 8-lug '44 or 10-bolt front, and a FF 60 rear. 1/2T stuff just ain't up to the job.

"200" - IFS front, RA-15 rear, 4.30 gears, 1.5"+ axle shafts. More clearance than a 70 or 14-bolt.

Long-term - '44 or 60F (it'd be nice for the brakes, but $$$$ says it won't happen) when I can't get brake rotors for it.


GF 800 "Oscar" - Dana 30/44 w/ 4.27s.. moving to 4.09 SII D44s down the road.

Axles, axles, axles! I swapped so many axles in my scouts it's hard to remember, but this is the current;
'80 SII= FRT44 truetrac with Warn hub conversion, RR60 trashloc with semi float scout axles, 4.10's

'78 Traveler= '80 frt & rr 44's w/3.31's

'72 SII= '80 frt & rr 44's, rr Truetrac w/3.73's

'73 SII/project= '80 frt & rr 44's, rr trashloc w/3.73's

On my garage I'm running a multitude of Scout 44's: frt 44 w/3.54, rr 44/4.10, rr 44/3.31, rr 44/3.73, rr 44/3.54(blown gears= fawking EZ locker)

As for the future, I'll be down to 1 Scout( the '80). I think the current axles are fine, except I'd like to cut and twist the frt knuckles. Anyone need axles or a scout?!
<IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0">

Currently 44's front and rear 4.56's, lockrights and 36's, this winter full with 3/4 ton RC 44 front, 1 ton van 14 bolt, 4.88's lockright and detroit, 38's on hummer wheels. I allready have everthing just need to find the time, hopefully around Nov-Jan.

Originally posted by Baja Binder:
<STRONG>Axles, axles, axles! I swapped so many axles in my scouts it's hard to remember, but this is the current;
'80 SII= FRT44 truetrac with Warn hub conversion, RR60 trashloc with semi float scout axles, 4.10's

'78 Traveler= '80 frt & rr 44's w/3.31's

'72 SII= '80 frt & rr 44's, rr Truetrac w/3.73's

'73 SII/project= '80 frt & rr 44's, rr trashloc w/3.73's

On my garage I'm running a multitude of Scout 44's: frt 44 w/3.54, rr 44/4.10, rr 44/3.31, rr 44/3.73, rr 44/3.54(blown gears= fawking EZ locker)

As for the future, I'll be down to 1 Scout( the '80). I think the current axles are fine, except I'd like to cut and twist the frt knuckles. Anyone need axles or a scout?!
<IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

You want to sell a 4.10 set, let me know.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

I've kicked this Idea around also....

What about making your own solid axle D50. Like the ford TTB (I think that's what they are)

Stick D60 outers on a D44. Not a whole lot of use do enough to shatter a D44 carrier, but just enough to bust the axle joints. THis may solve some of our problems, or just create others.

I've even been looking at the outers on the ford TTB set-up but haven't got close enough to one yet to tell if it will work.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>
hmmm.... OOOOO-REEAAALLLYYY...


what can you get a Ford '60 for??? You want to score one, wack off the ends and send them to me?? Got plenty of D60's to make one out of..... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

As for tubes, if your going this route, you may as well go all the way: Chrome Moly. Lighter, stronger, and not *that* expencive. Plus it adds that extra "zoot" factor <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Sorry I think you thought I meant Front D60's.....I meant rear, I'm still looking at options for front D60's *see post above*

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>I've kicked this Idea around also....

What about making your own solid axle D50. Like the ford TTB (I think that's what they are)

Stick D60 outers on a D44. Not a whole lot of use do enough to shatter a D44 carrier, but just enough to bust the axle joints. THis may </STRONG>

I've thought about it some - but not with a TTB. I have a friend that has two Dana 50F solid-axle fronts lyin' around.

Of course, the axle shafts neck down as they go into the center.

Diff is on the wrong side.

Smaller R&P..

But it does have the 60 joints and stubs.

Swap the tubes side for side.. great, but you have the necked down 44-ish innner axles.

OK, retube it into a standard 60 center section.. now you need new (35sp) inner 'shafts made..

Could be done, but would you really be $$$ ahead over just buyin' a Chevy 60?

Retubing, new axle shafts, destroy one rear 60 for the center section, grind perches into the thing, etc..

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>I've thought about it some - but not with a TTB. I have a friend that has two Dana 50F solid-axle fronts lyin' around.

Of course, the axle shafts neck down as they go into the center.

Diff is on the wrong side.

Smaller R&P..

But it does have the 60 joints and stubs.

Swap the tubes side for side.. great, but you have the necked down 44-ish innner axles.

OK, retube it into a standard 60 center section.. now you need new (35sp) inner 'shafts made..

Could be done, but would you really be $$$ ahead over just buyin' a Chevy 60?

Retubing, new axle shafts, destroy one rear 60 for the center section, grind perches into the thing, etc..</STRONG>

That's what I'm talkin' about. Using the D44 center as apposed to a D60, get the better Ground clearance. But you still have the bad ass U-joints. Plus if you get a detroit for it (or Ox-Locker, I forget, do those replace the carrier too??) then you have a tough carrier to boot......I don't know maybe its a stupid idea.

I didn't know they made D50 Solid axle.....

The thing is that it seems to me I'd never bust a D44 center, but with my caddy engine I could easily bust the joints out of one, so why not beef the joints to D60 size, and then get a detroit for the beefier center (just in case.)

Ahhh what the hell after all that I might as well get a D60, I just don't want anything hangin' that low in the front (plus the weight)

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>What is your ideal setup?

So lets here it, what you got, what you want

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Well right now I still have the plain old good enough scout stuff under mine but if ever possible it would be:

60 front 60 rear with 5.12's or so turning 39.5 or 40 inch tires. Real detroits in both axles, might as well make those axles high pinion while I am dreaming.

My buddy Skeetshooter is in the process of building a Traveler with a 70 rear,with factory Detroit and a big ass Napco axle up front, unless he finds a 60 before he gets done. Planning on turning 42-44 inch tires.
Both axles already have 5+ gears and he will run dual T-cases with a 345-727 combo.

He claims that he will eventually crawl so slow that he will go back in time. I think he will just stop moving <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>That's what I'm talkin' about. Using the D44 center as apposed to a D60, get the better Ground clearance. But you still have the bad ass U-joints.
</STRONG>

Bad-ass U-joints, but Dana 44 size axle shafts.. great, no more joint breakage, but you'll smoke the inner axle shafts.. Joints are cheaper than shafts! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

<STRONG>
Plus if you get a detroit for it (or Ox-Locker, I forget, do those replace the carrier too??)
</STRONG>

Only if you retube for a '44 center section. Limited choices for the Dana 50 (which, IIRC, is ONLY reverse-cut)

<STRONG>
I didn't know they made D50 Solid axle.....
</STRONG>

Late model SD F250s.. F350s might also have the 50.. I heard it's harder to get a 60F these days (F450 for sure)

<STRONG>
The thing is that it seems to me I'd never bust a D44 center, but with my caddy engine I could easily bust the joints out of one, so why not beef the joints to D60 size, and then
</STRONG>

I bet if you got beefy enough 'shafts and U-joints that you couldn't break 'em, AND enough traction.. you'd strip the R&P, or the front driveshaft would fail.

At that point.. why cut corners?

<STRONG>
Ahhh what the hell after all that I might as well get a D60, I just don't want anything hangin' that low in the front (plus the weight)</STRONG>

If you're really concerned.. buy a Chevy '60 front and install a Tera-Low HP60 center section and have your cake and eat it too! (and it it you will, 'cuz you can forget grocery money..)

Chevy 60 for $1000.
I bet a late model Dana 60 would cost that much or a ton more just to get the tubes and outers and such - unless you get lucky and find one w/ a broken center section. Add in the retubing and a new center section.. then the new axle shafts then...

It ALL costs $$$$.. heck, after all this, it makes a Chevy 60 look CHEAP. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

hmmmm..... what DO the TTB ford front ends use on the outers.... <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0">

can't be '60 outers.. otherwise EVERYONE would have been taking rear '60's and making fronts out of them with the TTB front end outers...


Might be worth a call to some of my Bronco buddies anyway <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Ok so maybe the D44 center is a stupid Idea, I agree grenading a shaft is a lot worse than grenading a U-joint.

SO getting a D60 rear and then finding some D60 ford (what about dodge) outers and then retubing would be a good idea.

D60 rears a a dime a dozen and D60 ford (and dodge) fronts are easy to come by, and buying just the outers, and shafts HAS to be cheaper than buying a whole Axle. So between the two you have and entire front axle and if your going narrow enough you MIGHT not even have to buy new tubes (that comment wasn't given much mathmatical thought though.)

I guess that's about the same as getting a ford front and then switching the axle tubes side for side huh??

I think I'm just making this more work than it needs to be.

The thing is that finding a Chevy front D60 is not easy work.

On the other hand finding Dually D60 is pretty easy, then just stick for ends on them and your set too.

Just some ideas.

You want to sell a 4.10 set, let me know.

Joe


Thats the set I'm keeping of course! The 4.10 rear is actually Old Scout's, so you may want to ask him. Unfortunately, I don't have a 4.10 frt. for you, but the 3.54 frt. is in great shape, ie; brakes/bearings/superwinch hubs/etc....all good. If you're looking for some more Scouts, I just saw an ad this a.m. here in Santa Cruz for 2 complete SII's for sale. A 78 and a 73 "complete trucks" (831)477-1466. I just can't buy any more scouts, or I'd be on them like stink on s#%t! <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>Ok so maybe the D44 center is a stupid
</STRONG>

Nah, not stupid.. just not a very.. efficient method, or particularly economical.

Granted, if you had a pile of parts lying around already...

<STRONG>
D60 rears a a dime a dozen and D60 ford (and dodge) fronts are easy to come by, and buying just the outers, and shafts HAS to be cheaper than buying a whole Axle.
</STRONG>

Who is going to sell you a front end minus the center section? I agree - cheaper.. IF you can find it. Maybe a front end with a spun pinion bearing? Or some idiot jumped his Ford like I do my Scout and.. crunch..

But the likelihood is slim.

<STRONG>
I guess that's about the same as getting a ford front and then switching the axle tubes side for side huh??
</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> And if you got a complete Ford front, it'd be a reverse-rotation Dana 60 aka "high pinion" which, after you retubed side for side, would be an even BETTER front end than a standard Chevy /Dodge D60 front.. and just as much work as retubing it with a standard 60 rear center section.

<STRONG>
I think I'm just making this more work than it needs to be.
</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> All doable, but all a lot of work.

Heck, even when you think about buying alloy 'shafts for a Dana 44 (around $500 for the set of 4) dropping $1000 for a Chevy D60 front starts to look reasonable.

Particularly if you were buying axles.

Say $250 for a complete 8-lug Chevy '44 front (which is probably a pretty good deal). Add $500 for alloy 'shafts. You're in $750.

You still have to regear it and lock it.

OR for $1000 you can have a stock K30 Dana 60. the cost to re-gear and lock it is only marginally more ($50-$100 more?) than the '44.

I imagine most stock 60 'shafts are comparable to alloy '44 shafts, but they use the bigger U-joints, and you still have an upgrade available (35sp stubs and alloy inners)

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>He claims that he will eventually crawl so slow that he will go back in time. I think he will just stop moving <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

That's kinda funny

<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> And if you got a complete Ford front, it'd be a reverse-rotation Dana 60 aka "high pinion" which, after you retubed side for side, would be an even BETTER front end than a standard Chevy /Dodge D60 front.. and just as much work as retubing it with a standard 60 rear center section.</STRONG>

Yeah that's the sweetest idea yet. Do those High pinion centers have higher ground clearance than a standard D60 center. If so that would be doubly good.

Another question... if you swapped tube sides would you also need to swap the ends or would they work on either side?

I'm thinking not, but for the end result all that work would be SWEEEEEETT!!!

Plus don't Axle tubes get PRESSED on??? That' sounds like a Biacth to remove and reinstall.

I guess maybe you'd have to have a machine shop remove and then press those on and then finish the job yourself???

So We've decided that getting a RR D60 off of a ford nets you the BETTER BRAKES, HIGH PINION DIFF, and THE SERIOUS BEEF OF A D60, and all you have to do is swap axle tubes and ends......Pretty sweet deal. Especially since the ford units are more common than a Chevy (or worthy dodge) unit. Not that I don't like dodges, I've just read a lot that they use the lesser equipment as much as possible.

Hey did the '94 and up 1-ton dodge ram (coil sprung) use a high pinion center??? I know where there's a wrecked one

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Cliffhanger ]

Originally posted by Baja Binder:
<STRONG>Thats the set I'm keeping of course! The 4.10 rear is actually Old Scout's, so you may want to ask him. Unfortunately, I don't have a 4.10 frt. for you, but the 3.54 frt. is in great shape, ie; brakes/bearings/superwinch hubs/etc....all good. If you're looking for some more Scouts, I just saw an ad this a.m. here in Santa Cruz for 2 complete SII's for sale. A 78 and a 73 "complete trucks" (831)477-1466. I just can't buy any more scouts, or I'd be on them like stink on s#%t! <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

No, No, No, I only want the R&P not the housing. Please sell me the 4.10's. I just picked up a NOS International 4.10 R&P off ebay for $25.00 <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Need the second set. I have 3.73's and 3.54's already. Also don't need the carriers going with DL's front and rear.

Joe

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: jdjanda ]

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> All doable, but all a lot of work.

Heck, even when you think about buying alloy 'shafts for a Dana 44 (around $500 for the set of 4) dropping $1000 for a Chevy D60 front starts to look reasonable.

Particularly if you were buying axles.

Say $250 for a complete 8-lug Chevy '44 front (which is probably a pretty good deal). Add $500 for alloy 'shafts. You're in $750.

You still have to regear it and lock it.

OR for $1000 you can have a stock K30 Dana 60. the cost to re-gear and lock it is only marginally more ($50-$100 more?) than the '44.

I imagine most stock 60 'shafts are comparable to alloy '44 shafts, but they use the bigger U-joints, and you still have an upgrade available (35sp stubs and alloy inners)</STRONG>


Don't you have a 44 front end missing its center section Tom? Or, at least missing pcs of the center section?
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Hooper:
<STRONG>
Don't you have a 44 front end missing its center section Tom? Or, at least missing pcs of the center section?
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Why yes, I do! And I also have a Ford HP44 yoke-to-yoke with bent tubes. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Only question is did I bend the very inboard end of the long-side tube on my broken Chevy 44. I DID bend the axle shaft at the end, but maybe the tube held up well enough to be reused.

Heck, the long side tube has already been removed from the diff.. I just need to chop the short side off, drill the plug welds on the Ford front, yank the bent F*rd tubes out, Chevy tubes in, and I'll have a HP '44 front.

As it stands, the only thing I'll need to plunk down cash for is the R&P and carrier for the HP44 and the long side axle shaft.

No, No, No, I only want the R&P not the housing. Please sell me the 4.10's. I just picked up a NOS International 4.10 R&P off ebay for $25.00 Need the second set. I have 3.73's and 3.54's already. Also don't need the carriers going with DL's front and rear.

Joe


I doubt if he wants to pull apart a good axle. Buy a set from 4wpw/ Genuine Gear, if ya don't mind blowin em up! They have a no questions asked warranty on them for a good reason. In fact my G.G. 3.54's(blown out from the ez locker) that I got from them should be covered, and maybe I can get em replaced with 4.10's. Hmmmmm, if I can get them to warranty the gears and replace with 4.10s, then I'll sell those to you. BUT NOT FOR $25! <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> You got a great deal on those gears! <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">
Did you call on those Scouts? I'm trying to learn self control, so I can't even call on them or I might fall of the wagon... <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Baja Binder:
<STRONG>I doubt if he wants to pull apart a good axle. Buy a set from 4wpw/ Genuine Gear, if ya don't mind blowin em up! They have a no questions asked warranty on them for a good reason. In fact my G.G. 3.54's(blown out from the ez locker) that I got from them should be covered, and maybe I can get em replaced with 4.10's. Hmmmmm, if I can get them to warranty the gears and replace with 4.10s, then I'll sell those to you. BUT NOT FOR $25! <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> You got a great deal on those gears! <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">
Did you call on those Scouts? I'm trying to learn self control, so I can't even call on them or I might fall of the wagon... <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

No on the calling on the other Scouts, see my post on "Is it worth more in parts" The wife is after me to get rid of the project so no more Scouts for me. I'll spend money on quality gears since the project is going away, would rather install and forget about them. I figure the NOS gear set I picked up should be of decent quality, although no warranty. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
[QB]Nothing comes with a High Pinion, High pinions are upside down pumpkins with the reverse cut gears (opposite cut of whatever they had to begin with, *if it is a front flipped you would install gears for a rear)/qb]

Ah, nope. The High Pinion pumpkins use a different design to allow for proper oiling of bearings, etc. I suppose you can flip a standard housing, but the bearings would dry up. High Pinion housings use reverse cut R&P gear sets. Front and rear does not matter for R&P's, standard and reverse rotation do. HP housings also move the pinion above the center line of the housing, improving both clearance and reduced drive line angles.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>People flip them all the time, that is why people want reverse pumpkin ford d44's.

I still maintain however that no stock vehicle has a high pinion. They are all modified or custom built axles.

Ronny</STRONG>

You are 100% WRONG.

#1, if you flip a standard cut housing, the axleshafts will turn backwards, and you will have 4 reverse gears and 1 forward gear (with a 4 speed tranny). The pinion is on the wrong side of the ring gear. In a RC center section, the pinion is moved straight up and is on the same side of the ring gear as a standard cut center section.

#2, RC dana 30's came in '87-'95 wranglers
RC Dana 44's came in ~'70 - '79 F150's and '78-'79 F250's
RC Dana 60's came in '78-'79 F350's and '86 - current F350's.

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>I still maintain however that no stock vehicle has a high pinion. They are all modified or custom built axles.

Ronny</STRONG>


Just to make sure we're all on the same page..

no vehicles come with High Pinion REAR axles.

Ford has used High Pinion front axles since the mid-70s. AFAIK, it's the ONLY source for "OEM/junkyard" High-pinion axles/center-sections. (Well, let's talk Dana 44+.. not that Dana 30 stuff on YJs/TJs/XJs/whatever)

Oh, and you may call them Reverse Cut, RC, or High Pinion, but if you call them reverse rotation or RR I will smack you. <IMG SRC="smilies/scary.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/csmile.gif" border="0">

I respectivaly disagree Hayraker (man, are we getting polite here or what......) YES, there are/were "high pinion" axles, factory. NOT modified, NOT custom.

'75 or so F150/Bronco's used them in the front (RC D44), and the bigger trucks used Dana 60's (also RC). Jeep even uses them today in the Wrangler and TJ, all be it they are <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> D30's.

You can also buy them new from Dynatrac and the sort, course there is also the nice Terra 60...

The high pinion difs are VERY different that the standard counterpoints, and they use "special" gears. You CAN NOT just flip a dif over and get the same thing, for one it would run BACKWARDS, and two, you would not get proper oiling to the pinion.

The exception there is the ford 9", it CAN be fliped and it will oil, but it still runs bacwards...


<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: RustoleumWhite ]

OK, ben and tom type faster than me

<IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0">

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: RustoleumWhite ]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>
Jeep even uses them today in the Wrangler and TJ, all be it they are <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> D30's.

</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> TJ's use standard cut 30's. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: BenW ]

Why are only me and tsmt talkin' RC D60's ???? We are trying ot avoid D44's all together...

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>'75 or so F150/Bronco's used them in the front (RC D44),
</STRONG>[/QUOTE}

TECHNICALLY 75-79 F150s, and 78-79 Broncos. Pre 78 they were all the little, Scout 80 knock-off variety and had standard '44 fronts.

78/79 got HP60 fronts in the F250 Snowfighters and F350s, and then it was gone until around 1986 IIRC when they put I-beams under the F350s again (and/or F250s and 44s?)


[QUOTE]<STRONG>
You CAN NOT just flip a dif over and get the same thing, for one it would run BACKWARDS, and two, you would not get proper oiling to the pinion.</STRONG>

Actually, my neighbor does *JUST THAT*. Takes a Dana 44, turns it over, and runs 'em. (or was it a 60?).

He doesn't *seem* to have any oiling problems, but yes, it does go backwards.. sort of.

He also mounted his ZZ3 GM350 with the waterpump to the REAR, into a TH350/(or other GM slushbox) and into a transfer case, then ran the driveshaft from the front output of the t'case BACKWARDS to the flopped over rear axle.

All that for a rear-engined dune-buggy.

I think he did something similar on his latest buggy, but I haven't had time to look at it too closely.. he got a lemon of a 502 <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> and it's gettin' shipped to some speed shop in CA to get "fixed" and revved up for next summer.

This man can bend some tube!

I had a picture of his previous Chenowth based rig.. but I can't find a scan of it.. might have to *gasp* dig through the old photos..

I AM AN IDIOT,

I guess if no one is going to slap me around for being completely ignorant on this subject because I believe the stupid information that people (who are obviously as ignorant as I am) have told me about HP axles (Maybe I was drunk when I heard this)I guess I will have to beat my self up about it.

I hope at least I provided a little entertainment for you all to laugh at my dumb-ass.

Taking my medicine.

Ronny <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/emb.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>I AM AN IDIOT,

I guess if no one is going to slap me around for being completely ignorant on this subject because I believe the stupid information that people (who are obviously as ignorant as I am) have told me about HP axles (Maybe I was drunk when I heard this)I guess I will have to beat my self up about it.

I hope at least I provided a little entertainment for you all to laugh at my dumb-ass.

Taking my medicine.

Ronny <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/emb.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

As long as you are willing to admit it, we'll fogive you. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>Why are only me and tsmt talkin' RC D60's ???? We are trying ot avoid D44's all together...</STRONG>

Because you two break all your sheet. Takes a man to wheel a 44 and not break it. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Takes a god to wheel a 30 and not break it.

Why is it the guys that don't know better than to run a 30 with 40's never break them. Must be the moment you realize that a 30 should break with 40's is the moment it will.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>Although I'm not sure what Scout Dude means by "C's" I imagine those could be had off of the ford stuff.
</STRONG>

I think he means the inner knuckles

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>I'm with Scout Dude on this one. If you want a front D60, just buy one. I've seen them as low as $500 (actually I've seen them lower than that, till they guy realises what they are worth). But you can pick them up all day for around $1000. You would have more than that into just all the outer parts if you tried to build on yourself, unless you scored on some parts "kicking around" or some other strange sircumstance.

Besides.. I'm seeing some COOL stuff with/for D44's from this site....


As for ME and axles:

Current: D44's F/R w 4.10.
Future: Custom RC D44 front, ARB, ~ 62" wide, Rear, D60-2 out of a t-all/pu (also 62"), 35-spline, probably discs. Spool or ARB. 4.54 gears in both (4.88's get weak in a D44).

Then look at a second t-case....... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

yeah, the 2nd case is in my plans too. as for getting an axle, best way is to buy the truck it's under. find a late 70's ford with "problems", offer a couple hundred.

sell body/cab if in good condition, or cut into small peices and take to recycler. ~$20

pull engine. $1-200
trans and t-case will get you around $100 each

etc...

not enough to lock and re-gear, but you can rebuild the brakes and hubs, along with seals

Joe

Originally posted by Hooper:
<STRONG>
After attending rock crawl this week, I am afraid D60 is the only way to go, if you are into that kind of abuse.</STRONG>

As on of the mags said:

"by the time you've re-built that weak axle 3 time you could have built a stronger axle"

or something like that

Joe

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>Another question... if you swapped tube sides would you also need to swap the ends or would they work on either side?

Especially since the ford units are more common than a Chevy (or worthy dodge) unit. Not that I don't like dodges, I've just read a lot that they use the lesser equipment as much as possible.

</STRONG>

Ford axles are more common? where?

as to the inner knuckles, dunno if they're 1 or 2 PN's, but i'd guess 1. my fabricator was gonna build a ford 60 for me by cutting the long side and using a sleve to attach to the short side. Then Uncle Sam said he'd like almost $1800, so that idea went out

Joe

Originally posted by NotQuiteSane:
<STRONG>yeah, the 2nd case is in my plans too. as for getting an axle, best way is to buy the truck it's under. find a late 70's ford with "problems", offer a couple hundred.
</STRONG>

Of course, it's a LOT easier when you just go visit your buddy and ask, "So how many bent HP44s do you want rid of?" <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

"every" 78-79 1/2T HP-D44 you'll find is bent...

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Because you two break all your sheet. Takes a man to wheel a 44 and not break it. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Takes a god to wheel a 30 and not break it.
</STRONG>

I've been relatively carnage free for a while now... but I haven't really had the time to go wheelin' as much as I'd like.

The '44s have held up well since I replaced the rear axle bearings and welded the U-joint caps on the front '44 'shafts.

then again, I did have to weld my transmission crossmember back in before our last trail ride. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


However.. I know where I want to go (more tire!) and I know parts will start flying at some point..

I just really need to get the body patched back together so it's more fun to drive (in the winter!) again..

Hey Cliffhanger...yeah, exactly what Not Quite Sain said. The "C's" are the inner part of the knuckles. The part that is welded onto the housing. Sorry for the confusion <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

Sorry Hayraker two dogs speaks the truth. Remember the Jeep that Jeremy is running is a factory HP 44 out of a ford that they cut and spliced the tubes to make the diff to the pass. side.

as Hayraker stated in an earlier post I am currently building a traveler that will have a 23 spline D70 rear with a factory detroit locker. I got out of an old Ford 1 ton. I have pretty much decided against using the Napco front I am afraid that the CV joints will never hold up. I have a D44 out of a wagoneer that is about the same width that I will build up till I find a front 60 cheap. Will a lock right hold up to say 40" tires? I dont want to build the front twice but I am also anxious to get it up and running. Didnt want to sink alot of $$ into the 44 cause the minute I spend $700 on the 44 I will find a 60 front for $500. I think I got a line on a 83 chevy 4wd dually non running for about $1000 it will have a 60 front correct?

by the way hayraker we were all drunk.

Thanks for the info on the "C"'s guys

Someone was saying "Where are Ford D60's common" what I meant was that ford put D60's under their trucks more than chevy did.

I DID however find a junkyard here that's selling Front D60's for $450.00 I thought that was pretty damn good.

The weird thing is that he sells 1-ton rear axles for $650.00 <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

I DID however find a junkyard here that's selling Front D60's for $450.00 I thought that was pretty damn good.
[/QB]


WHERE!!!! At that price (expecialy for a Ford HP), it would be CHEAPER to ship one o me even <g>


hmmm tell us more......... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

it's all about suppply and demand here in Northeast Texas we have alot of farmers and ranchers who drive 1 ton 4wd's and have for years. youve heard how things are bigger in tx well that is true to an extent. what I mean is this the ultimate ride for an 18 year old boy to have here in my hometown is not a corvette or a go fast rice burner. No, if you are really cool and your parents can afford it you drive a new Dodge quad cab Cummins Diesel Dually that is a fact and alot of kids do. and they are raised to drive trucks like that from the day they get their license. so 4wd 1 ton trucks are very common here in TX and at the same time rock crawling isnt hardly heard of as a hobby so dana 60's are pretty common here much like NE where I used to live, In Hay Springs NE
about 30 80 mi. from Scottsbluff I think I remember We shared the same TV station KDUH Channel 4 the only channel we got.

Right now I'm running a Dana 60 Front & 14 Bolt Rear, both out of a 1985 Chevrolet Military 1 1/4 Ton Truck. Got 5.13s in both of them, with Detroits front and back.

that's what my dana 70 has 5.13 with detroit locker hope to find a front 60 soon

Originally posted by skeetshooter:
<STRONG>Will a lock right hold up to say 40" tires? </STRONG>

No, not according to the man. My EZ Locker is have trouble with 32's in a Scout.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by skeetshooter:
<STRONG>Will a lock right hold up to say 40" tires? </STRONG>

You bet. My friend ran front/rear Lockrights with his HP44/D60 combo and 36s until he got tired of breaking front U-joints. Now he runs 5.13 gears, HP60/D70 and 42" TSLs with NO problems.

jdjanda - the EZ locker is only rated by Tractech for 32s and smaller.. if they worked on anything bigger they'd be taking $$$ from their own NoSpin line! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I'm looking for a low gear 3.90+ carrier for my wagoneer 44 then, for now anyway.

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>jdjanda - the EZ locker is only rated by Tractech for 32s and smaller.. if they worked on anything bigger they'd be taking $$$ from their own NoSpin line! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I guess in the mud, with that poor excuse for an engine you'd be OK with the EZ locker.

But I can and do overload the EZ in my rig, I attribute this to three things. First I installed the EZ locker wrong the first time, and may have worn the teeth due to the bad install, second with the Trash-No-Lock in the rear the front has to do a lot of work when climbing, third the only time it overloads is on uphill climbs when the rear tires are spinning. I just ease up on the throttle or blimp the wheel left/right and she locks back up. I am still on the fence when it comes to reusing the EZ when I switch to 4.10.s. If I can get a 4.10 carrier with the gears I'll keep it, else I'm going full Detroit's front and rear. I will be using a full Detroit in the rear.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>I guess in the mud, with that poor excuse for an engine you'd be OK with the EZ locker.
</STRONG>

Is that MY poor excuse for an engine, or someone elses? <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Mine's a built IH 350 (345+.30).

I'm also not advocating EZ-Lockers in the slightest.. Tractech even "says" they're not up to snuff by their 32" and under policy.

The Lockright, OTOH, has no such warranty limitation, and it's been pretty good to me, as well as my friend running 42s locked front/rear with Lockrights in a fullsize Ford.

<STRONG>

But I can and do overload the EZ in my rig, I install, second with the Trash-No-Lock in the rear the front has to do a lot of work when </STRONG>

I've NEVER "overpowered" my Lockright in the front. I, too, run a worn-out Tracklok in the rear, making the front do more work.

I've never had the Lockright uncouple on me. The biggest problem I had with it was when it *wouldn't* unlock.. because I'd broken one of the drivers and broke all of the shear pins.

They warranteed it.

-Tom

I wouldnt own another EZ locker personally, that is why I asked about the lockright. I trashed a pinion gear thanks to an EZ Locker and after seeing the lockright that is now in Hayraker's front I must say that I was impressed with the Lockright. Thanks Tom.

Originally posted by skeetshooter:
<STRONG>I wouldnt own another EZ locker personally, that is why I asked about the lockright. I trashed a pinion gear thanks to an EZ Locker and after seeing the lockright that is now in Hayraker's front I must say that I was impressed with the Lockright. Thanks Tom.</STRONG>

FWIW, when my LR let loose a lot of other stuff failed, too - but the R&P were fine.

I was backing up a steep rock face, lots of weight on the nose. With the close 4spd I needed some throttle to the 304 to get the power.. front spun on some loose rocks.. spat the rocks out, then BANG.

Shot the U-joint caps out (someone saw it fly), blew the hub off the wheel (hit a bystander about 20' away - it was a stock Dualmatic/Selectro pot-metal hub.. I *thought* it was the weak link and would save the rest of the drivetrain.. HAH!), egged the stub-shaft, broke the factory welded rear spring perch off the axle (left-rear), and destroyed the shear-pins and one coupler in the Lockright.

I still haven't dug out those pics to scan yet..

IMO, I was asking for it, and it gave it to me. BANG.