OK here goes, I need some advice! Can I get that here? I know I can get a lot of opinions but I need info from those that have actually built and driven their rig in a similar way for what I am looking for. A little back ground on me is I will be using the vehicle to run dogs with. We can still run deer with dogs here in Florida and I have hunted in the National Forest for over 30 years. I currently have a 79 GMC SWB with ½ ton stuff 4.56 gears, 4” lift, 3” body, fenders trimmed with a 350/350/205 and 15x38 boggers and I go pretty much everywhere I need to go. I have moser axles in the rear and so far the front is holding up and I have run this truck hard for 6 years now. I had a 4 speed in it and could not keep the rear locked, broke locker, broke welded spider gears, broke welded axle gears so now I have an auto in it and an open rear.

What I am looking for is a softer/better ride and as light as possible. My plans so far are 350/350/205 or 350/700r4/208 to my ½ ton axles to keep weight down and add a full spool to the rear. This truck is street driven and one minute you may be runnin 60 mph on the highway and dive down a logging road at 30-40 mph. I have read and read on the 4 link setup vs the 52/64 leaf springs. There are no rocks to flex over but there may be a few logs or ditches to cross. I am looking for a somewhat stable ride for control and softer on the terrible dirt roads that we travel. Almost like a small version of a baja truck but not the $50k+ price tag to go with it.

What I am building; I have a 93 S-10 cab and front clip that I have gutted to reduce weight and going to build an Exo-Cage for dual purpose, one to stand on and also as a pine tree slider. I plan on attaching the cage to the frame at 10 points to keep the frame from flexing as I have cracked/broken my frame several times. The questions that I have are I have the S-10 frame and also a 77 K-5 frame, which one to use? The S-10 is 6” wider than the K-5 as I am sure some of you know. I know either I am going to have to fab up body mounts or move spring perches, that is not a problem. If I go with the K-5 frame I thought about moving the spring perches inward to be directly below the frame so that I can brace them better. Also going to use the front rear spring mount and let the rear run wild which is going to stretch the wheel base which should give a better ride? Correct? Thinking about using the 52s up front and then the 64s in the rear, will this give me the ride I am looking for along with the wheel travel? I have been reading for about 4-5 years now and I believe it will.

4-link setup I am just a little unsure of. I just do not know if it will work when you are running 60 mph down the highway and dive down the logging road at 30-40 and then mud through a creek or savannah. I have read the 4-link calculator countless times and am not completely stupid? I have two guys locally that build drag cars with 4-link and they both have assured me they can build what I am looking for but my two cents are running a drag car straight down the 1/4 mile is a little different than a mini baja race. Also the cost of the 4-link vs the leaf springs is a concern, the spring are in expensive compared to the links and rods and brackets even if we fab the brackets ourselves.

So set me a fire:mad3: and burn me to the ground with the comments and “SEARCH” remarks. I just would like to hear from those that actually have both.

PS here are some videos of what we run in;

YouTube - Kevin & Brody.mpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZ5X5PUb0Y)
YouTube - One Rough Ride.mpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY6ndcDXOwI)
YouTube - The Mudd Road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVsS1yIl9_Q)

A 52/64 combination that is setup right will ride pretty damn good. Alot better then what you have now. I have 52's in the front and 57's in the rear and it will soak up some pretty mean ruts and holes. Moving the spring hangars and mounts underneath the frame (inboarding) will decrease stability, but possibly help soak up of the rough roads a little better. If you have the money I would 4 link it, it will drive and perform better then the leaf springs, but I'm not too sure on the road stability part. I know there are plenty of sway bar options when running coils/coilovers, but I'm sure someone else will add to what I've already said.

The leafs would work well for you

I would spend some coin and get high dollars shocks also

You could probably get away with 10" and they are way cheaper in the classifieds than a 14" or 16"

I remember seeing 4 10" fox shocks with reservoirs for around 300 dollars on here recently.

I would not use the S10 frame.

i would just go with the 64s first. for as cheap as you could pick those up, see how that works. if you still arent happy go with the 4 link

i would go with a 56/63 combo....i have 56/56 combo and love it. with the 38's the 63's wont hang out too much....this route will be way cheaper than linking.

another vote for the leafs. :mr-t:

leafs are going to save you a lot of money...


just remember, the smoother you want it off road the worse its going to handle on road, ie body roll and brake diving.

If your running a 10 bolt in the back thats your problem. 10 bolts are junk!

Probably going to stay with the K-5 frame and add some bracing and weld all of the factor braces that I have not removed. If I move my spring perches inboard by 4" is this going to cause it to have too much body roll while corning with 64s in the back? I want to do this so that I can mount the shocks between the tire and the spring and not interfere with the flat bed that I am going to build for it.

PSYCHOFAB I am running a 12 bolt and have not broken it since I changed to the auto tranny but it is not locked either which I plan on doing. I have a 14-bolt with 4.56 waiting in the shop but I am wanting to stay away from that due to weight of it. I have also already fab disk brakes for my 12 bolt and love them in all of the water and mud.

Like the other guys said...if money is a primary concern. Go with leafs.
But you get what you pay for. A well engineered leaf spring suspension is not cheap,
and may rapidly approach the cost of a linked suspension.

I run a homebuilt 3 link front, 4 link rear in similar conditions youve described, and daily drive it.
It rides and handles well on and off road, with no sway bars.
I would highly recommend it. You can manage to keep costs down, like I did, by using coil springs and fabbing your own brackets and mounts.

Like the other guys said...if money is a primary concern. Go with leafs.
But you get what you pay for. A well engineered leaf spring suspension is not cheap,
and may rapidly approach the cost of a linked suspension.

I run a homebuilt 3 link front, 4 link rear in similar conditions youve described, and daily drive it.
It rides and handles well on and off road, with no sway bars.
I would highly recommend it. You can manage to keep costs down, like I did, by using coil springs and fabbing your own brackets and mounts.
Odin K30 do you have any pics of your set up and did you go through all of the calculations in the calculator or did you trial and error build it?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/album.php?u=86878

There are some good pics here.
I hack-fabbed the front. Using some trial and error.
But took my time and used the calculator for the rear.

All in all it turned out very well, it rides and wheels great.

its my opinion (and take it for what its worth, its free) that you dont need a 4 link.

You will find a much better ride from long flat springs than you will with the factory stuff, and also find that you can get the springs almost anywhere, cheap.

a 4 link is spendy. its complicated. if it works well offroad, it wont make you too happy on road. of course, there are the perfect four links out there, but the amount of work invested in it does not provide you with the enjoyment you desire.

keep it cheap, use leaf springs, dont inboard them. use one shock per wheel. more than that, and youre wasting money and stiffening your ride. you may have to install crossover steering on the front and probably should anyway. if you do crossover, install a panhard bar on the front axle, as longer springs remove steering feel and may allow the axle to move side to side. the panhard bar should be as long as you can make it.

the panhard bar should be as long as you can make it.



The panhard (track bar) and the tie rod need to be the same length and angle or you will have bad bump steer.

The panhard (track bar) and the tie rod need to be the same length and angle or you will have bad bump steer.

He meant drag link, not tie rod. Tie rod "ties" the two knuckles together. So the drag link and track bar should be as close as possible to the same length and angle.

52's and 63's, Did real good, getting linked now.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/hmatiak/IMG_5300.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/hmatiak/IMG_5303.jpg

Biggest thing with leafs is axle rap. Might not be an issue for the trails your running. I had both front and rear axle rap.

Leafs are good for the mud. Don't know about 4 link on mud trail.



My links are in the mud plenty:flipoff2:

Id use the K5 frame and plate it for McBeefyness :smokin:

Be careful with that body lift, Ive heard of them coming through the floor on people. AND the halfton axles on the 38's. Normally I would say your ok with 38's on halftons but boggers are a different kind of monster.

I think with a good leaf spring setup and some good anti-wrap bars, youll do just fine. You can always think about a shackle flip in the back. :D

As said, one shock per corner, and from your account, you better invest in some damn good ones. Let us know how it works out. :grinpimp:

Thanks for all of the comments fellows. I am going with leafs and picked up a pair of 54s for the front and 64s for the rear today from a local junk yard. Got all four of them for $100 and they pulled them. I have done business here before and will probably be getting some more stuff from them.

I will be using a shackle flip in the rear of some sort but at this point I am toying with the idea of moving to a SWB frame so that the wheel base will be about 132" vs the 120" if I go with the K-5 frame. Just not sure if the longer frame will actually ride that much better. Also thought about using a built tube frame out of 2x4x3/16 and running a straight frame. Any ideas on this?

I had originally planned on a 14bolt in the rear and a D44 up front but I have been running the 12bolt and 10 bolt for 4 years now and thankfully have not broken anything but the rear carrier. I had a 4spd for the first 2 yrs and blowed up a locker, I do not know what kind it was but it was supose to be factory? I then welded my spider gears up and they held for a year and then a buddy said I can build it and you won't break it but you will have to put hardend axles in it so I put moser axles in and he welded the axle gears up... Lasted 3 weekends in the woods and I sheared one of the gears completely off. I give it hell on the dirt road and in the woods but if I know there is a root in the rut I will play it safe or if I am turning around in the ditch and coming back on the highway I would take it easy trying to keep from breaking the rear. I would like to stay with the 1/2 ton axles just due to the weight.

This brings me to another question. My rig weighs in at 6200 lbs loaded like I use it. Can I bring that weight down to around 4000 lbs by going to the S-10 X-cab with just a front clip and it all gutted pretty much? If I can get close to this weight I will be very happy.

Here are a couple of pics of my rig the way it is now and the springs I picked up today.

He meant drag link, not tie rod. Tie rod "ties" the two knuckles together. So the drag link and track bar should be as close as possible to the same length and angle.

Thank you. At least some ones paying attention. I ran it by my 1 year old doughter befor I posted, she said it was allright. Damn kids allways makin you look stupid.

By the way I do plan on the cross over steering but have also thought about going full hydro but how will it drive on the highway at 60mph?

you'll be hard pressed to reach 4k in weight with the description of goods. Especially once you get it loaded up with some tube for sliders and a cage.

I've got a S10 cab truck, 1 tons, sbc , yadda yadda and it's around 5k.

ditch the half ton axles. You'll be glad you did. No sense polishing a turd...

This is what I drug up last weekend, my sister-n-law wanted to know how much the guy paid me to haul his junk off:eek:

Got the cab off and gutted. The K-5 we drug in a while back and stripped it down also.

yer gonna play hell with a k5 frame and an S10 xtra cab body. The frame pitches up right where the back of the cab needs to sit. very hard to keep the cab low on the frame.

You made the right choice going with leafs. Links are cool and work well, but take a lot of time to dial in. Building the frame from 2x4x3/16 is a great idea, and if thought through well enough you can make it work with the cab.

Odin: No sway bars???? Wow, mine rolled from side to side and made me sea sick!

Had I to do mine again? I'd only link one end, and leaf the other. Probably link the front. My rear rolls quite a bit under the hammer.

I knew I was going to have to fab the cab mounts and had planned on that but would I be better off staying with the S-10 frame or going with the straight 2x4 tubing? I still have the S-10 frame that I pulled the cab from.

Grumpy I just measured the K-5 frame and I see what you are talking about, any ideas?

Odin: No sway bars???? Wow, mine rolled from side to side and made me sea sick!



Nope.
My front springs are pretty stiff (600#) which keeps body roll out.
Not to mention Im sitting pretty low on my 35s.

Nope.
My front springs are pretty stiff (600#) which keeps body roll out.
Not to mention Im sitting pretty low on my 35s.

your truck is going to have the same body roll with 35's as it would with 44's. just so you know.

Had I to do mine again? I'd only link one end, and leaf the other. Probably link the front. My rear rolls quite a bit under the hammer.

I think if you were to link only one end, your best bet would be the rear. Matters none at this point to the OP, but if stability is what your after, leafs front, links rear is the ticket. All the weight is in the front.

I knew I was going to have to fab the cab mounts and had planned on that but would I be better off staying with the S-10 frame or going with the straight 2x4 tubing? I still have the S-10 frame that I pulled the cab from.

Grumpy I just measured the K-5 frame and I see what you are talking about, any ideas?

use a standard cab, or notch the floor in the back of the cab so the frame has structural integrity still. then boatside the cab, which means welding a piece of square tube where the rocker panels are and attaching it to the frame, basically mounting the body solid. this will keep the cab from collapsing a little. and it also gives you free body mounts that you can set up the way you want from the get-go.

OK so I traded the S-10 x-cab 2wd frame for a K-10 SWB regular cab frame today. Got it home and first thing I checked out was the steering box area as I know they are a bad spot and sure enough it has been dirt dobbed on. I can not weld but this junk looks like a bulls a$$ sowed up with a loggin chain:eek:. I am new to Paint but I have added some lines on a photo and would like some thoughts on this. What about cutting the frame back and adding 2x6 or 2x4 tubing to the front? the only problem with this is the springer hanger is going to be way too high. Guess I could cut and fab the tubing to reflect the same angles that are on the frame. I also thought about welding in some sleves through the tubing for the steering box to mount to. Any ideas on this?

Other than this dirt dobbing on the front the rest of the frame is in good shape, even not too much surface rust.

Forgot to attach the paint picture!

Here is a better picture of what it should look like I believe.

If you do go with the tube frame in the front make sure you sleve the bolt holes inside the tubing for your sreering box or it will just keep pinching the tubing down and not get tight.