I finally got my Ballistic axle brackets and frame mounts in today (missing the shock brackets though) and I'm going to start mocking up my front axle in the ZJ.

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/newbrackets/ultimatebracket1.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0

I'm going to order some DOM for my lower control arms (3 link setup) and was wondering if 1.5" ID x 2.0" OD would be sufficient for my HP30 and 35's?

2.25" looks like beef but I think it's overkill for my setup. This rig isn't going to see too many rocks in North East Pa.

Also, are the Forged Chromoly 2.63" Ballistic Joints the way to go all around and are (2) right hand thread and (2) left hand thread joints the best setup for adjust ability on the LCA's? Or would it be better to run 2 joints on the frame side and 2 poly bushings on the axle side?

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/ballisticjoint/forgedbjplated5.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0 http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/bushing/ballisticbushing1.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0

This is my DD and will see considerable street use along with some moderate wheeling.

Thanks for any input.

Oh my fucking god. BACON... you should know better! this has been covered by the 50 million 3 and 4 link builds in this site.... just take some time and read some of them and find out what worked for them.

If it were me Id go with the .375 wall (2.25" OD) for the lowers and go with a bushing at the axle and misalignment joint at the frame mount.

2" .250" Dom is fine for lowers/uppers (i'm running the same on my rig). If you're going to poud it, up the thickness of the lowers and consider having them tapped since there won't be enough ID to use tube adapters. For the joints/bushings it's a personal choice. My last rig was primarily DD and I ran joints at all ends, no issues.

Thanks for the responses.

They actually do make 1.5" ID x 2.25" OD but I thought it was a little heavy (and pricey) for this particular project.

I'm still kind of up in the air about running joints all the way around. Some say that it gives you more flexibility but you sacrifice ride quality vs. running a poly joint at the axle.

All I know is that the cost is going up a lot faster than I anticipated when I started this project. I guess you have to pay to play.

Thanks for the responses.

They actually do make 1.5" ID x 2.25" OD but I thought it was a little heavy (and pricey) for this particular project.

I'm still kind of up in the air about running joints all the way around. Some say that it gives you more flexibility but you sacrifice ride quality vs. running a poly joint at the axle.

All I know is that the cost is going up a lot faster than I anticipated when I started this project. I guess you have to pay to play.

I can relate to that. I'm going to a 3-link in the front with a Dana 44 swap using Ballistic parts. Definitely guna cost ALOT more than I had anticipated as well...

Do what you think is best. There's alot of variance depending upon how you use it where you're beating it at. A lot of people have done different things and some of their shit's still holding up too. Research research research...

square tubing biotch!!

cuz im a cheap mother fucker :flipoff2:


i turn it up on an edge cuz its a little stronger.. alot cheaper too.. i used 2" .250 wall an i think i paid like 2.20 a foot when i build this set up.....
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/DC4W-93XJ/014-4.jpg

umm square? do u want to break it?:shaking:
since you cant figure out how to search :flipoff2:
check out this thread
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=777044

Absolutely nothing wrong with square tube.
I ran the same 2x2 for my LCAs and they never showed any signs of damage.
Must have been the John Deere green. It makes everything stronger :D

Round .375 or bigger
Square .250 or bigger

Bacon Orange Julious

umm square? do u want to break it?:shaking:

break? maybe bend.... but never break.. and for shits sake its a fuckin cherokee.... not a semi....

i really like the square tubing cuz its cheap and just as strong and actually stronger if you turn it up on edge like shown in the above picture...

i really like the square tubing cuz its cheap and just as strong and actually stronger if you turn it up on edge like shown in the above picture...


Turn up on edge? As in having a corner be the lowest point? That would be the weakest point in square tubing. Best keep it on the flats.



I still like round better despite the cost. :flipoff2:

i've bent square and i've bent round...do they make triangle or something...:rolleyes::D:flipoff2:

Turn up on edge? As in having a corner be the lowest point? That would be the weakest point in square tubing. Best keep it on the flats.:

how do you figure...

Easiest way I can think to explain it ....


Square tubing has its strength in either the horiztonal or vertical plane. When you rotate the tubing, so it orients in the "diamond" shape ... you are utilizing neither plane to its maximum capability.


Not to mention a hard enough hit (in theory) would help the 2 horizontal corners fold onto themselves.


Now ... if there was somehow an internal brace on the 2 horizontal corners (effectively making it a double triangle) --- then it would be a strong mofo.




Joe

you'd think that would make it stronger, because the diamond shape would utilize both plains rather than just the vertical..

when i set it up like that i was imagining the material as if it were in a tubing bender.. it'll bend fairly easy when flat, or working off one plain, but when diagonal, would be less prone to arching.. or "stronger"

i do see what your saying though.. a hard enough hit would cause it to fail completely

Didn't you guys take Geometry? More sides are better. It's all about the hexagons :flipoff2:

http://www.allsteelbrokers.com.au/pictures/hex%20bar-web.jpg
Bacon Pie

fawk... i cant imagine what those would weigh

i cant imagine what those would weigh

Probably as much as my rig.....

:D

For short links Id do the 2in 250 If they are long 36in+ and hang low then I still might do the 2in 250 for your application.

I think its a reasonable question.

I Use 2in on my rear lower links 42in+ but since they are mounted high I dont hit them hard enough to bend them, My front links hang below the frame so I did 2.25 3/8in.:flipoff2:

break? maybe bend.... but never break.. and for shits sake its a fuckin cherokee.... not a semi....

i really like the square tubing cuz its cheap and just as strong and actually stronger if you turn it up on edge like shown in the above picture...

i like your thinking outside the box and trying something new, but iv found that square tends to curve over time but i guess if you take it easy itll be okay. what wall thickness are those square arms?

i think itd be cheaper to build it once with round:flipoff2:

but thats cuz i drive my xj like im in koh, we drag it thru a rock trail that a few of my buddys know about by my house then haul ass thru washes and hit a few bumps and jumps and race home in the desert:grinpimp:

Just for the record:

Clayton has been building long arm setups for years using square tubing and they are considered some of the best (and most expensive) on the market. It's nothing new, and in fact VERY strong.

That is one of the reasons I decided to make my own. Square tubing is dirt cheap compared to DOM. I like building things myself and I simply cannot justify the price to even think about buying someone else's product.

I can do it myself for about 1/2 the cost. The long arm upgrade kit below is $1350.00 and just not worth it IMO. It might be to someone with no fabrication skills or equipment.

http://claytonoffroad.com/images/CA-LCAK.jpg

Just for the record:

Clayton has been building long arm setups for years using square tubing and they are considered some of the best (and most expensive) on the market. It's nothing new, and in fact VERY strong.

That is one of the reasons I decided to make my own. Square tubing is dirt cheap compared to DOM. I like building things myself and I simply cannot justify the price to even think about buying someone else's product.

I can do it myself for about 1/2 the cost. The long arm upgrade kit below is $1350.00 and just not worth it IMO. It might be to someone with no fabrication skills or equipment.

http://claytonoffroad.com/images/CA-LCAK.jpg

think that you forgot that kit comes with a lifetime warranty...i bent mine the first day out...they were willing to send me a new one out, but it wasn't bent to the point that it was going to hurt anything...probably a slight bow...

mind you, this was on a 1ton XJ, going up hill, full throttle (i wasn't doubled down) the front end came up 3 feet and the arm land right on a rock...i swear i thought the XJ just exploded, but i made it up the hill...

think that you forgot that kit comes with a lifetime warranty...i bent mine the first day out...they were willing to send me a new one out, but it wasn't bent to the point that it was going to hurt anything...probably a slight bow...

mind you, this was on a 1ton XJ, going up hill, full throttle (i wasn't doubled down) the front end came up 3 feet and the arm land right on a rock...i swear i thought the XJ just exploded, but i made it up the hill...
See? You should have went with round, because nothing can bend round tube.
Not even a bender...

Not even a bender...

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

How are you going to properly weld those brackets (which fit a 3" tube) to a 2.5" D30 tube?

I do like where this is going though, I will be doing the same thing shortly

Before you go out and buy DOM, tube adapters, and factoring in the time spent building.. Check out the pricing on my heat treated 4130 links that come ready to thread in a joint.. You might be surprised how close they are in pricing and how much better of a product you getting..


Taylor

Before you go out and buy DOM, tube adapters, and factoring in the time spent building.. Check out the pricing on my heat treated 4130 links that come ready to thread in a joint.. You might be surprised how close they are in pricing and how much better of a product you getting..


Taylor

X2...

DOM = 60,000 psi
Heat treated 4130 = 180,000 psi

EDIT: http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836035

;11113140']How are you going to properly weld those brackets (which fit a 3" tube) to a 2.5" D30 tube?

I do like where this is going though, I will be doing the same thing shortly

I had them re-program their laser and they cut me a set that fits a 2.5" diameter tube.

I finally got the shock brackets yesterday that were missing and my TNT Truss is on it's way.

Once everything is here, I can mock everything up on the welding table and tack everything in place.

I'll post some pics once I get to that point.

Before you go out and buy DOM, tube adapters, and factoring in the time spent building.. Check out the pricing on my heat treated 4130 links that come ready to thread in a joint.. You might be surprised how close they are in pricing and how much better of a product you getting..


Taylor

I checked out your site and will probably give you a ring once I'm ready for links.

BTW (not trying to be an ass) but your website needs some TLC. You need more pics of your work and the products that you offer. It's really boring to look at IMO.

I'm also a graphic designer and used to build web sites but just don't have the time any more. You can't even read some of the links because the font is so small and the color just blends in with the background.

Plus, I'm getting up their in age and my eye sight isn't what it used to be.

:D

X2...

DOM = 60,000 psi
Heat treated 4130 = 180,000 psi



You can get DOM in 4130...DOM is just the manufacturing process to create the tubing. The materials can be changed...but a regular "mild" or low carbon steel (hence 1018) will have a yield strength of close to 60K psi. 4130 DOM is definitely the cats ass if you want to ensure no bent or broken suspension links, provided you thrash your shit hard enough.

I checked out your site and will probably give you a ring once I'm ready for links.

BTW (not trying to be an ass) but your website needs some TLC. You need more pics of your work and the products that you offer. It's really boring to look at IMO.

I'm also a graphic designer and used to build web sites but just don't have the time any more. You can't even read some of the links because the font is so small and the color just blends in with the background.

Plus, I'm getting up their in age and my eye sight isn't what it used to be.

:D

yeah I know it isn't the best, I am not much of a website designer :D ..

yeah I know it isn't the best, I am not much of a website designer :D ..

How about I hook you up with a kick ass site and you hook me up with some kick ass links?

:D

Grand cherokee - 4link rear, 3 link front.

I run 2x.25 lowers and my rears are over 40". I have bent both rears but it was about a full jeep length run at a ledge and the arms hit first. They are mainly bowed rather than bent.

Remember with steel that the elasticity is constant until they bend, this is with all steels including 4XXX. If the price is ok for the higher grade then so be it but you will not be able to bend the 4xxx back after you bend it. 1xxx grade is cheap and can be bent back if need be. Its all about cost at this point.

I run poly bushings at the frame and full rod ends at the axle. If cost is the concern and DD comfort is required bushings at each end will be cheap and no too painful for flex because of the suspension design. the design does all of the work, not the joints. (unless we are talking full comp rig). Yes the bushings will bind but they are much less than half the cost.

2 cents

Bradford

So does Ruffstuff Specialties sell your stuff, or did you pirate his pictures and text for your heims/jam nuts?

http://www.hereticfab.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=hfab&Category_Code=heims

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/3-4-link-bracket-stuff-heims-1-14-heim-stuff-c-37_44.html

You almost got it.. I sell Ruffstuff heims, spacer's, and jam nuts...


Taylor

Just checkin' :flipoff2:

Just checkin' :flipoff2:

Did you see, I labeled it for you! :flipoff2:

http://www.hereticfab.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=hfab&Category_Code=heims

Did you see, I labeled it for you! :flipoff2:

http://www.hereticfab.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=hfab&Category_Code=heims

I did! Thanks! I knew I had seen that red carpet somewhere, lol.