Saw this over at the BB, thought we all could add our thoughts here...

4" lift (http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/cgi-bin/webbbs/techtalk.cgi?noframes;read=166574)

Personally, Damien has a great looking web site, but please get off it, <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Sheet he's not the first one to do an SOA, and SUA's can be made to work, I believe there are few ARCA guys running them. With a lot of trim, I could get 20" inches of travel at each wheel with my SJ's.

And Tom, stop debating how well your rigs flex, we all know they don't <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trail_rides/elkhorn_4_25_2000/Image4.jpg

Damien even pulled the pic from your site <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I know I'm just stirring up the stuff

well you seem to be a scout god so maby the pro guy is new to scouts and wants to know not every body can afford skyjacker springs or has the time to grind the hell out of there casting to do a soa just a thought

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Saw this over at the BB, thought we all could add our thoughts here...

And Tom, stop debating how well your rigs flex, we all know they don't <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Damien even pulled the pic from your site <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>

No, he pulled it from my own post here on PBB!

These were taken in the same general area, one week later, BTW..


5_21_2000 Trail Ride (http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trail_rides/5_21_2000/pics.html)

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trail_rides/5_21_2000/Image17.jpg

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trail_rides/5_21_2000/Image24.jpg

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trail_rides/5_21_2000/Image12.jpg

Yeah, Scoutillac's already asked why I was driving around the rocks and not just OVER them... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by ERICS89YJ:
<STRONG>well you seem to be a scout god so maby the pro guy is new to scouts and wants to know not every body can afford skyjacker springs or has the time to grind the hell out of there casting to do a soa just a thought</STRONG>

I think I should clarify, there seems to be a little 'friendly' debate going between Tom and Damien. I'm not referring to the original topic of the post.

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Yeah, Scoutillac's already asked why I was driving around the rocks and not just OVER them... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

We all know why <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

Where is that trail, I want to go <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

Joe

Damn Tom, whats with taking the bypass <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> If you had a Body lift you could of cleared them rocks! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> BAAAAHAAA <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Shadow man:
<STRONG>Damn Tom, whats with taking the bypass <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> If you had a Body lift you could of cleared them rocks! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> BAAAAHAAA <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Hey, who's evesdropping on my emails with Scoutillac n' Hooper, n' Buttercup? I was just baggin' on Buttercup about why my Scout looks "smaller" than hers - "No poser body lift!" <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

If I had something other than 33" ATs I would've had an easier time going over 'em, too.. but I did so much driving I wore out my 33" MTs in a year and after building a new motor, didn't have the coin for new tires, too.. traded some parts. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

<STRONG>
Where is that trail, I want to go
</STRONG>

Near the ghost town of Elkhorn, MT - near Boulder, MT, about 45 minutes from my place.

That was one of the most fun stretches of trail I've found in MT.. and until that day our trail leader thought it was "impassable".. fortunately, my CB cut out when he said something like, "To your right is a harder trail - more like impossible. I couldn't get my ATV through.." I just heard "to the right... harder route.."

The Scout lead the way.. the EB followed.. then suddenly everyone decided it didn't look so tough, so we shoe-horned the FS Bronco through! no body damage.

-Tom

Say, Terra-izer.. does Jimmy Weed still wheel with the Binder Bunch? Last time I talked to him his Scout hadn't left the garage since the Dakota Territory Challenge..

Is *HE* still running lift springs in the nose, SOA in the back?
I wonder if his rig 'doesn't flex well'.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/hole41.gif
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/hole7.gif
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/lc5jim.jpg
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/lc4jim.jpg
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/hole10.gif

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG> http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/hole10.gif </STRONG>
DAYUM!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> I like, I like! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> You got to wonder how crazy the trail was that he just came down off of...Damn Steep! <IMG SRC="smilies/eyemouth.gif" border="0">

Tom, Jims truck still hasn't moved out of the garage, he's been really busy with the family bussiness. He hasn't been to a meeting in years. He does still runs lift springs in the front and spring over on the rear, he has some pretty good flex. Some of the other guys in the club run that same set up (Peter Cassel), i think those pics are from New Mexico.

Originally posted by Gena:
<STRONG>Originally posted by tsm1mt:
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/pictures/hole10.gif </STRONG>
DAYUM!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> I like, I like! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> You got to wonder how crazy the trail was that he just came down off of...Damn Steep! <IMG SRC="smilies/eyemouth.gif" border="0">

Are those silver things hanging down in the front his RS fangs? Look awfully close to the rocks?

Originally posted by Hooper:
<STRONG>Are those silver things hanging down in the front his RS fangs? Look awfully close to the rocks?</STRONG>

That they are....

His frame is coated with some silver epoxy and his bumper is chrome, So thats probley what your are seeing nothing hangs below the RS shackle.

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER:
<STRONG>His frame is coated with some silver epoxy and his bumper is chrome, So thats probley what your are seeing nothing hangs below the RS shackle.</STRONG>

I believe he is referring to how long the shackles/fangs are on the front.

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER:
<STRONG>i think those pics are from New Mexico.</STRONG>

Some were from the Guardian.. I think the "vertical" one is from Moab.

Grabbed 'em off the http://www.off-road.com/~jweed site.

-Tom

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>I believe he is referring to how long the shackles/fangs are on the front.</STRONG>

Ayup. I know Jim is set up well, but those look like some serious rock grabbing fangs!!

Originally posted by Hooper:
<STRONG>Ayup. I know Jim is set up well, but those look like some serious rock grabbing fangs!!</STRONG>

Yeah, those are the "sabre-tooth tiger" fangs.. look at the other pictures and you can see 'em more clearly. Loooong.

One of the arguments against that type of design is that they DO hit.. or if you have to back up off an obstacle and you "drop" and land ON 'em..

OTOH, it also works well enough that people keep doing it. Mabye it's an "old school" thing. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I bet he also doesn't have problems with the spring hitting the pitman arm/draglink like I have...

Little Devil is getting some fangs this winter. Not nearly that long, but longer than what I have now..

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>...he's not the first one to do an SOA....

I know I'm just stirring up the stuff</STRONG>
that's for sure - I'm not the first, and hopefully I won't be the last. But it was a new guy (I beleive) that asked the question on the BB and I wanted to take an opposing side to what he would get on the BB.

For me its a pet-peeve. I hate that Reverse Shackle kit that adds 18" of lift if you want it to. I call it "RockFangs" Because thats what they look like to me.

For me, I just hate seeing the hybrid 4" spring front and SOA rear - I understand why people do it - and many guys, like Jim Weed, make it look pretty good.

BUT as for me 'and my house' we don't ride the fence - one side or the other...make up your mind and stop with the frankenstein suspensions (which is what most of them end up looking like)! I seen enough of it - I've fixed my share of it. I'm all for people doing it themselves & I'll applaud a job done well - BUT PLEASE "say no to cheese".

These are my personal thoughts. I would never to the lift - on my or anyone else's suspension. There are many here and on the BB that can do so much better than that - so why not encourage them?

<IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">

Nice towers <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> The impression I get from Weeds site is that he is much better at building a web site than a vehicle.

Originally posted by Scouter:
<STRONG>Nice towers <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> The impression I get from Weeds site is that he is much better at building a web site than a vehicle.</STRONG>

Wow.. I never thought his website was THAT great. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Keep in mind Jim built his Scout before half of the people here owned one.. and I imagine at the time the 4-link rear / dual shackle setup was fairly cutting edge. Jim's Scout was built before Shannon & Pinky showcased the first "goofy leaf" in FourWheeler.

There are things I would do differently if I were "rebuilding" Jim's rig - but I have the benefit of standing back and looking at his and deciding how I could do it "better" or at least "different"..

I like it. Looks simple and effective.

Besides.. how can you look down your nose at a 500inch Caddy and an NV4500? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Snoopy:
<STRONG>But it was a new guy (I beleive) that asked the question on the BB and I wanted to take an opposing side to what he would get on the BB.
</STRONG>

It might be significant to point out that the new guy *DID* post it to the BB and not here..

He's not ready to experience PBB. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

<STRONG>
For me, I just hate seeing the hybrid 4" spring front and SOA rear - I understand why people do it - and many guys, like Jim Weed, make it look pretty good.
</STRONG>

How do you feel about Waggies? The FS ones?

Wanna take a guess at how they left the factory, suspension wise?

Here's an advantage to SUA front - wheel hop, or lack of it. SUA has less wheel hop tendencies.. and usually less frequently broken leaf springs. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

<STRONG>
There are many here and on the BB that can do so much better than that - so why not encourage them?
</STRONG>

There's a lot to be said for "baby-steps"!

Wheel it stock.. add a bolt-on lift.. wheel it more.. then decide what you REALLY want to do.

IMHO, going from stock to WILD is a big mistake if you haven't figured out how to drive.

On one of the Moab trail rides on Jim's site you'll see Erik Stude and Jim's rigs.. and then you'll see a picture of Curt Cleavenger's stock sprung locked front/rear STOCKER doing the same trails.

Curt's now SOA front/rear (and last I heard, in California) .. but not until after he'd played stock for a while.

Better driving skills are what let me park my lifted n' locked SII and drive my LWB open/open stock Travelall - and still drive anywhere I wanted to, including around "better equipped" SWB rigs.

Actually was more fun wheelin' the stock land barge at times than it is in the Scout.

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: tsm1mt ]

Originally posted by Snoopy:
<STRONG>
<IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

What does Massey have to do with this? He doesn't even have a Scout...

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Wow.. I never thought his website was THAT great. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Keep in mind Jim built his Scout before half of the people here owned one.. and I imagine at the time the 4-link rear / dual shackle setup was fairly cutting edge. Jim's Scout was built before Shannon & Pinky showcased the first "goofy leaf" in FourWheeler.

There are things I would do differently if I were "rebuilding" Jim's rig - but I have the benefit of standing back and looking at his and deciding how I could do it "better" or at least "different"..

I like it. Looks simple and effective.

Besides.. how can you look down your nose at a 500inch Caddy and an NV4500? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Good points...but I was not refering to cutting edge items. Look at the craftmanship of the Hydro Booster mounting plate. Also, the poor idea to mount the rear brake rotor on the inside of the axle flange <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> And those front (fangs) towers. I like the the engine and tranny though <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

So when are you going to toss the IH mill and go big?

Originally posted by Scouter:
<STRONG>
Also, the poor idea to mount the rear brake rotor on the inside of the axle flange <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>

Help me out on the brake rotor.. he mounts it behind the axle flange, right? Pound the studs through the rotor and through the flange. Doesn't TSM do it this way?

You'd rather see a "hat" style rotor slid over the studs/flange, with the wheel bolting up against the rotor itself?

Easier to replace..

<STRONG>
So when are you going to toss the IH mill and go big?</STRONG>


I just put $2500 into my 345. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> And closer to 2x that into my 304.. .. and the 455 Rocket left with my stepdad.

Too much $$$ in the IH iron at this point - and no complaints about the IH performance yet.. tho' the happy gas is still calling my name.

Originally posted by BenW:
<STRONG>What does Massey have to do with this? He doesn't even have a Scout...</STRONG>

Massey who? (call me young or out of touch) but I just think I'd look cool with a sweet red afro & dark glasses!
<IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">

The rocks on the right of that Scout, I would run them over. And as for Jim's scout, he spent more on the motor and trans then I spent on my whole project. I did a lot of trading and just doing the work myself. <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

Sorry guys the RS that the binder bunch run (what you all call Rock Fangs) don't add a bunch of lift they only add 1/2" to 3/4" and none of us have ever drug one on a rock or any thing else we move the front end 2" to 2 1/2"s forward. And this is the way the factory racers did it back in the 70's. I run this style and on the next truck will run the same thing. And Jim doesn't have lots of cash in his truck, he bought it new and he did most of the work himself.

Originally posted by Snoopy:
<STRONG>Massey who? (call me young or out of touch) but I just think I'd look cool with a sweet red afro & dark glasses!
<IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


The Icon is Massey...as in Kevin Massey. He has a YJ with OPEN 60's Front a Rear.

One a side note...back to the "Fangs"...Any shackles longer than stock would hang out there as well-and would run the risk of bending a main leaf even easier than the above set-up.