We could use all the help we can get. We noted 44 different work locations yesterday on our field trip with the BLM. Check out the info and sign up HERE (http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi)


Originally this was just going to be a cleanup day but someone beat us to it! For once we went somewhere and the trash we saw before was GONE! Very cool...

Hoping to get a rain to soften up the ground but we will do what we can. Post if ya got any q's..

BTW BLM has agreed to provide water n snacks thanks to Vince ;)

There should be free hot dogs down on the river at the end of the day if all goes as planned also..

BTT

course its on a sunday, whats the end of the day? like 4 ish probably with the darkness settling in ealrier. jiMMy

why, so you can skip the work and come for free food :)

:flipoff2:

end of the day is when the work is done, 4 sounds about right. Start at 9

not one person from here has signed up? Come Awn..

count me in for this one. Let me know what you need and I can see if I can get it. Thanks Brian Wakefield:)

Originally posted by Brandon
why, so you can skip the work and come for free food :)

:flipoff2:

end of the day is when the work is done, 4 sounds about right. Start at 9

not one person from here has signed up? Come Awn.. so... lol. no im outa work at 2 so i wont make it in time! jiMMy

We may run a prep crew down the trail on November 2, Saturday -- please email me (randii@4x4wire.com) if you can make that...

Jimmy, whenever you get ther on Saturday, I'll put you to work!

Randii

top..

gee, 6 people with 45 waterbars?

top.

This needs to stay at the top. There are a lot of people on this board who were at those meetings regarding Jergens. Our voices did make a difference. But we also promised them that we would be there to volunteer and help them. It's time to back that up.

Originally posted by Brandon
why, so you can skip the work and come for free food :)

:flipoff2:

end of the day is when the work is done, 4 sounds about right. Start at 9

not one person from here has signed up? Come Awn..


Ahh I've signed up buddy;) Did it last week;)

See you on the trail.

the signup list so far.

come on people.

Andrea Turk - I can bring a shovel. I have a Jeep Wrangler with a rack over the spare tire.
Angel Farris - back of my truck and trash bags and so on.
Brandon Miller - I have a 4x6 military trailer, shovels, rakes, etc that I will bring (well I may not be able to bring the trailer since my rig is not mobile but someone else can tow it..)
Brian Wakefield - let me know what you need I can see if I can get it
Dan-H - I have my digging bar and some shovels and I'll bring some trash bags
Joe Honoroff - I can bring two shovels and a pick-axe.
Kevin "TARZAN" Carey - Member Pirates of the Rubicon
Randy Burleson - I'll be there again, will help with the plan, and will spearhead equipment rental.
Ron - ¿¿¿ RCRC Memba
Rusty Folena - normal ssortment of hand tools and a psoosible militery trailer
Steve Hersh - See ya there!
Steve - Almost positive I can go. I will bring a couple shovels, a pick-axe, and maybe Brandon's trailer.

On trail at 9am.

top

btt

BTT

Well i am probably going to miss the Jergins clean up in favor of the Fordyce one. I wish I could be in two places at once, but I can't. It's great that there are some many projects going, now if the manpower just comes through.

Those of you who CAN'T attend can throw a few bones into the pot, perhaps, for those of who WILL be attending?

I'm getting quotes to rent equipment (at least a jackhammer, and perhaps even a backhoe) to help get the heavy work done quickly... we'll still need lots of hand and shovel work for finishing the job, though. Something like this would REALLY help knock out some SWEET trenches:
http://www.ur.com/new/index.php/rental/General+Construction/Backhoes/24
http://www.ur.com/images/eqimages/24.jpg

I'm good for a chunk of the rental (should be under $200.day for the small backhoe), and I believe I can get this heavily discounted through a Sierra Treasure Hunters club member. If we can get enough pledges to stretch from the 'lectric demo hammer that I can currently afford to the backhoe that I'd like to afford, I'll front the money and follow up with individuals to collect on their pledges. Businesses are also welcome -- we'll put a banner on the backhoe and pimp heavily any business that pitches in!

Please email me directly at randii@4x4wire.com if you can pledge $$$ and/or signup here: http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi if you can come in person.

Randii

I will be there friday night and can stay all weekend:flipoff2:

Originally posted by randii
Those of you who CAN'T attend can throw a few bones into the pot, perhaps, for those of who WILL be attending?

I'm getting quotes to rent equipment (at least a jackhammer, and perhaps even a backhoe) to help get the heavy work done quickly... we'll still need lots of hand and shovel work for finishing the job, though. Something like this would REALLY help knock out some SWEET trenches:
http://www.ur.com/new/index.php/rental/General+Construction/Backhoes/24
http://www.ur.com/images/eqimages/24.jpg

I'm good for a chunk of the rental (should be under $200.day for the small backhoe), and I believe I can get this heavily discounted through a Sierra Treasure Hunters club member. If we can get enough pledges to stretch from the 'lectric demo hammer that I can currently afford to the backhoe that I'd like to afford, I'll front the money and follow up with individuals to collect on their pledges. Businesses are also welcome -- we'll put a banner on the backhoe and pimp heavily any business that pitches in!

Please email me directly at randii@4x4wire.com if you can pledge $$$ and/or signup here: http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi if you can come in person.

Randii

Randii, just got off the phone with a local UR , they can give us 40% off. A mini track hoe will be $120 a day, and a self conatined gas jackhammer will be $60. SOme of the folks there may try and come out too.

Loco is checking with a company here on the hill, he knows the owner. So we shpould be able to get some equipment donated or at a discount to help us.

Randii, just got off the phone with a local UR , they can give us 40% off. A mini track hoe will be $120 a day, and a self conatined gas jackhammer will be $60. SOme of the folks there may try and come out too.
AWESOME! Do they have a wheeled hoe for similar bucks? The track-style hoes move awfully slow to get 2 miles down the trail...

The gas demo spade sounds PERFECT -- we can put that in a truck and buzz it up and down the trail as needed...

Great work, Steve!

Randii

Originally posted by randii

AWESOME! Do they have a wheeled hoe for similar bucks? The track-style hoes move awfully slow to get 2 miles down the trail...


I'm sure they do. The trackhoe was the sugested equipment by the guy at UR.

I'm sure they do. The trackhoe was the sugested equipment by the guy at UR.
I'm worried about the ground-speed of the track-hoe, its narrow track-width, and its relatively high center of gravity... we need to go two miles along some fairly tippy terrain. That said, I'm certainly not an expert with machinery.

Email me the guys contact information... randii@4x4wire.com -- unless you want to run with it. We probably need to reserve equipment by this weekend to assure it is available next Sunday.

Randii

what about a walk behind chain trencher?

low COG, move from location to location via pickup, runs on gasoline, should be cheap to rent?

what about a walk behind chain trencher? low COG, move from location to location via pickup, runs on gasoline, should be cheap to rent?
The fella at the rental place steered me away from that -- it was my original request. Trenchers did narrow, fairly rectangular slots, and if you need to take a second pass, they cave in the trench.

Apparently a back hoe implement can dig and pack a better-shaped waterbar... that's what I told the fella we were trying to do. Also, prices for a small 'hoe are less than prices for a large trencher (what they suggest we'd need).

Randii (not an expert here)

Randii, you have mail

wow this is great! I can't get to this site from work (damn state computers filter out the pirate site!) so I haven't seen this in a while. I counted 4 people from the pirates of the rubicon, that kicks ass! I personally will chip in for rental and as incentive I started a raffle. If you can't make it you can still help..

If you pitch in just one buck (give it to someone going or there is a donation button at www.rcrc4x4.com) it will help the cause. Skip lunch and give $5! Anyway, the most valuable thing would be your labor so come on out. If we can crank the work out we can go down to the river and enjoy our local land after ward. I'll bring a bbq (probably gotta be gas) and some grub!

so far for the raffle this is what we got, but from the same page linked above anyone else can donate as well..

Brandon Miller - Single Burner propane stove
Twiddy, PMC - Pacific Mountain Cruisers tank top!
Twiddy, TLCA - 2 TLCA t-shirts!

Click on the Add an Entry link on this page (http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi)

Hey Brandon, maybe you should change the title of this thread to Jergens or something instead of local BLM. Might get more people to look at it?

WHOW....there fellas. The Nov. 3rd work day is to remove remaining debris from the UPPER ROAD only. From Jergens Road to Boulder Mine. We discussed this at length and agreed that any work down below is to be done after a few good rains, and with more notice and time. We will not be undertaking this lower trail maintiance on a Sunday only. It will be discussed between Al Franklin and the work crew as to a date for the lower trail work day. So I wouldn't be renting anything for the 3rd as it will be money and time wasted.

Randiiiiii.......call me :D

Vince,

when you and randii and brandon figure out what is and isn't happening on Nov 3rd, we need to let the rest of us indians know what the heck is going on.

Vince, that was the plan when we thought there was trash, as we were walking with Al (you were driving) we decided to get done what we could. I suggest ya call Al, since he is aware of what is going on ;) We will be picking up trash if we see it too ;)

If we have to do this again, that is fine but let's get what we can done!

I called Al at BLM to check, then called Vince, who was remembering an earlier discussion...

Sunday, November 3rd, we'll be working with BLM's Al Franklin to do trail cleanup and road maintenance, with a primary focus on water bars.

I discussed equipment with Al -- he'd prefer we not expand past a demo hammer with a spade bit, so nix on the mini backhoe. His intention is to do stop-gap temporary measures this year, and revisit this next year for more permanent measures, based on the BLM management plan and the Pine Hills Preserve management process.

Basically, what we're doing this year is making a short-term fix on the trail -- but in doing so, we are proving yet again that our hobby is a motivated and well-engaged group of folks who will back up our words with our actions. During the South Fork public planning process, we committed to actively assist in resource maintenance -- now we're gonna prove it.

See ya all there on November 3 -- bring work gloves, shovels, and rakes. If you've got one, bring a jeep trailer, a maddox, and a digging bar. BLM has set aggressive goals for us, and we're gonna try hard to impress them! :D

Randii

OK...I talked with Al Franklin yesterday and I was reminded of monkeys and footballs.
They(AL) wants to dig up the dry earth and try to build water bars with no moisture to compact it with. This in turn will create more erosion than it prevents. Come the first good rain the water bars (piles of dry dirt) will simply wash away, One step foward, two back. It dosen't take an engeneering degree to figure this out. Al is a plant guru (botinist) and has no construction experince what so ever. If we are going to do this we need to do it right the FIRST time. I am not in favor of doing something just for the sake of doing something. He has not even sent out notices to any of the participants of the planning process or local property owners to invite them to participate. This NEEDS to be done. We need people from all groups not just "off roaders" to get this work done. This is not a four wheelin trail by any stretch of the imagination and we don't need to send a message to others that the "off-roaders" are doing this work to keep it open to "off-roaders".....It's EVERYONES trail and EVERYONE should be contacted and given the chance to participate in maintaining the whole area. This needs to be done right or not at all.

They... want to dig up the dry earth and try to build water bars with no moisture to compact it with.
We can truck up some water, I suppose. What kind of volume do we need per water bar?

I agree with your concerns, Vince, but I think that we can still do political good by coming through with the work we committed to even if the actual result gets washed away. Al is convinced that this needs done as a stop-gap measure, and we committed to pitch in, so I'll be there.

Al has contacted the Pine Hills volunteer coordinator so the plant folks will be there (small numbers, I expect) -- there's secondary gain there... I've never worked shoulder to shoulder with anyone without finding common ground. I agree that more contacts should be made, especially to the members of the planning committees...

Randii

Originally posted by randii
[B]I agree with your concerns, Vince, but I think that we can still do political good by coming through with the work we committed to even if the actual result gets washed away.



I'm no politician and will not be doing this for political good. I'm doing this because it is the right thing to do(if done right). If anyone is volenteering for political reasons we don't want or need thier help. Only politicans do things simply to say "something is being done", wheather or not the "something" that is being done is the right "something".

If our actual result washes away, and it will, this gives BLM the ammo they need to lock the gate, and I am not prepared to assist in hand delivering this ammo to them.

Let me say this: I hate politics. :(

In this case, I think the politically good move overlaps a positive change for the trail... even short-term waterbars will provide SOME benefit to the resource. Perhaps a better way to think of them is rain gutters for the trail -- because I agree that anything piled above grade will move downhill in the first good rain. The areas that we dig out will channel rain off until they fill up, and even then, with some rock on the bottom, they'll perk off to the side at least a bit.

I agree that it would be better to put in lasting waterbars, but that choice is not available to us now, and will not be until the Pine Hills Planning group makes a call about the road, and right now, that's upstream behind the logjam caused by the delay in the BLM community-planned draft. IMHO, putting in the time on the trail now makes it more likely that we'll have the chance to come back and do it right next time.

Vince, I respect your opinion and your experience with this particular trail, but I disagree. I'll be there with a shovel and digging bar, even if I'm by my lonesome.

Randii

Originally posted by randii
Let me say this: I hate politics. :(

In this case, I think the politically good move overlaps a positive change for the trail... even short-term waterbars will provide SOME benefit to the resource. Perhaps a better way to think of them is rain gutters for the trail -- because I agree that anything piled above grade will move downhill in the first good rain. The areas that we dig out will channel rain off until they fill up, and even then, with some rock on the bottom, they'll perk off to the side at least a bit.

Randii


Politics aside, the concern is that the mitigation measures may be ill-advised, and the results may be observed by others (this spring) as validation to close the access. This has happened in SoCal: where review by Agency personnel later in the year claimed the mitigation improvements caused more damage than the natural conditions. Even if this may, or may not, be true, try to reduce the risk that the result of the work is abused.

Ask the BLM to have a Transportation Engineer assist in the direction of the mitigation and improvement measures. A Botanist understands the needs to maintain healthy plants, the Engineer understands the impact and techniques to maintain cooperative roads. Both diciplines are probably well intentioned (no slight intended against the Botanist) but two heads, and four eyes, are better than one in this case. This places the responsibility on the BLM, to stand behind the mitigation measures, without second guessing by an outside NGO.

You have time to gain a BLM Engineer's participation (you pay taxes for the resource) and it can only help.

Happy Trails!

Ask the BLM to have a Transportation Engineer assist in the direction of the mitigation and improvement measures.
We had the local BLM Civil Engineering Technician on the last field trip, he's the guy who hung the tags and marked where the waterbars should go. Al Franklin is the BLM Botanist -- both went along on the planning hike.

Originally posted by randii
Ask the BLM to have a Transportation Engineer assist in the direction of the mitigation and improvement measures.
We had the local BLM Civil Engineering Technician on the last field trip, he's the guy who hung the tags and marked where the waterbars should go. Al Franklin is the BLM Botanist -- both went along on the planning hike.

Good to hear you have advisors along to scout the work :).

Will the Engineer advise on how to construct the waterbars (rock, trench, berm)? It seems minimal but has a great impact on the result. When we have Botanists as advisors they usually have a good idea of what works, but not the experience of the Engineer (more ideas for less work and more benefit). I enjoy the advice from the Botanists, as they can spot potential future problems and advise on route changes for solutions, but the Engineers have more effort saving ideas for how to make the changes (and are not afraid of motorized equipment). Two heads with different perspectives and conditioning.

Good luck, it sounds like it's organized well.

I hope the BLM efforts counter any myth that all the Agency types are anti-OHV, we need to respect and support our friends.

Happy Trails!

Folks, lets not forget we have at least 2 experianced transporation Engineers who will there on the 3rd. Brandon Miller, & Brian Gutierrez (Flashlightman), Both civil engineers with Caltrans. They know how this work should be done and will supervise us worker bees to make sure it is done right.

I’m willing and able to participate in any rebuilding project to help 4wheeling. The Jergens project sounds impressive especially the water bars. Sorry but I’m already committed to the Fordyce cleanup Nov. 2. I would like to know where Jergens is and how to get there. From your pictures it looks like a very nice SUV trail and should be maintained.

I rode my bike down there yesterday and whould have to say Vince is right. The trail has some pretty deep powder dust going on right now. It would make a lot more sence to wait till it gets moistened up.

whatever.

I"ll be there with my shovel and a digging bar. I can toss a 60 quart and 110 quart cooler in which we can fill at the river and haul up 40 gallons of water at a time.

If someone has an OB shower pump, we can use that to wet down the work areas.

is BLM supplying any rock to line the waterbars with ?

Vince, you are right with compacton, moisture content, etc..

BUT I do think we are doing more good then bad. My military trailer is sealed and can carry one hell of a lot of water if that guy with the house will stretch his hose over there. With that said I look at this as more of ditches than water bars. Take a look at what is there - LOOSE DIRT. We shovel that OUT of the ditches and leave a hard pack bottom - less erosion. Water travels in that (lined with rocks) and a LOT LESS erosion occurs than no work at all. Compaction would be nice which requires working the dirt with water, and I am nuclear density gauge certified so I have a feel for what it should be but Ii'd be happy with just about anything.

Me and Brian are both engineers with field and office experience, and Brian's expertise is... SOILS.

Not saying we are gonna be able to the best job but we will improve it. I can understand not wanting to make things worse and I am right there with ya!

If we dig trenches ONLY, NO dirt berms, then fine. Otherwise it is going to be receipe for disaster. Just wait and see.

Sorrry, to have to pull out of this but I got laid off and dont have the funds available now to do this. Any one need a sheetrocker?
Brian Wakefield:(

Here's the word from Al Franklin from the BLM, he said we are all supposed to meet at the community center in Rescue Sunday morning.! help me get the word out ASAP. the community center is in downtown Rescue where we had the last public meeting, just 100 yards west of Green Valley / Deer Valley intersection ..

Work party leaders should meet with BLM at 8am @ community center.... general public volunteers should meet there between 8:30 and 9am..

This is going to be an AWSOME project and a funfilled day for all involved!!!

Those of us who have been attending the public meetings for the past few years know this will be our chance to prove, we, the 4 wheel drive community, are a dedicated and solidified force with one unified goal.... keeping public lands open FOR the public NOT FROM the public.... so lets be as professional as we can.

I spoke with Al from the BLM this afternoon and this is our plan...
A handful of us will be heading in Saturday to prep a few of the 42 proposed water bar locations. This prepping will include selectivley trimming back manzanita and loosening the soil with an electric jack hammer... but more importantly we will COMPLETLY FINISH at least 1 water bar that will be used as a visuaL EXAMPLE.... so all volunteers will know what the finished product should look like, so we will all be on the same page from the get go....
As Chief of Operations for the FOTR water bar construction project on the Rubicon last year, i have a pretty good idea of what the agencies involved are looking for...I have also walked the trail several times with the BLM and presidents of local 4x4 clubs and organisations includding Mike and Vince from the Pirates, Brandon from RCRC and Randii from 4X4wire...So I would like to volunteer myself as a Project Manager ...mainly to keep us unified and the quality of our work as high as possible.



in closing ....
we will be working side by side in the trenches with people from the surrounding community, environmentalists and other non-4x4ers.. please keep that in mind.. be on your best behavior and be ready to work your butt off...

singn up here http://www.rcrc4x4.com/

thanks for your time !!

Brian FLASHLIGHTMAN Gutierrez
RCRC member and Civil Engineer for Caltrans

This is going to be an AWSOME project and a funfilled day for all involved!!!
Agreed -- this is the time to put our money and labor where our mouths are. I sat through more than a year of public meetingsto get here, and will be there working on the trail, rain or shine. I hope that the rest of you folks who have enjoyed this trail over the years, or who plan to use the trail to access the South Fork of the American River over the next few years will do the same. More than a few folks showed up for the final meetings -- I hope to see many of those folks on Sunday.

As Chief of Operations for the FOTR water bar construction project on the Rubicon last year, i have a pretty good idea of what the agencies involved are looking for...
I'm right with ya, Brian -- I'm stoked to see RCRC taking the lead on this, and I'm happy to work as part of the team. I know some Pirate club members will be there, too -- it is GREAT to see 'wheelers working together to preserve land access. :cool:

...be on your best behavior and be ready to work your butt off...
Amen -- we're gonna be working our butts off, but this is quite an opportunity to prove that we can walk the walk that we talked.

Randii

Do you need any help on Saturday? I cannot make it Sunday due to a unexpected meeting with the owner of the company where I work . but I would still like to lend a hand.

Does anyone have directions or an address for the Rescue community center?

Fred

Yes we could use some help saturday evening,
Looks like i'm running late, If i'm the only one out there i probably wont stay the night.. but i'll be working out there this evening, probabaly by lantern light to have at least one example water bar completly finished for sunday,.... but if a few other people show i will have gear to stay the night..

I'm pretty sure the comminity center is on Green Valley not sure of address, Rescue is a very small town can't miss it..

FYI -- the community center is at:
4060 Green Valley Road
Rescue, CA

To view a map, click on this link or cut and paste this link into your browser's location bar. http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=xU4YXd

Randii

confirmed RCRC will be working and camping out there tonight!!

I didn't make it tonight (flu sucks) but I will be there tomorrow - that makes 5 members and 4 prospects from RCRC!

Hope to see a lot of ya in the am...

wow, what a day! Everybody kicked some serious ASS!

http://www.rcrc4x4.com/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/thumbnails.html

A few pics, but that is just the work party I was with, there were people above picking up trash, people down below us making more ditches - all in all a VERY productive day!

I'll get some pictures up from the lower-trail work crew this evening. You'll see Lance exercising his well-honed spotting skills in moving massive rocks, Maniac nursing a hangover next to a 2-stroke jackhammer (talk about the wrong place at the worng time!), and more.

Great work, all!

Randii