My '90 W-250 CTD (with 112k miles) has developed a horrible wandering ussue, pretty suddenly... Always steered pretty easily, and pretty precisely, other than the small dead spot in the middle that is to be expected...

It's started to wander horribly... Rather, it feels sort of like delayed, sort of like the low speed handling of a coil spring straight axle front end when the panhard bar bushings are shot... It's like that most of the time... Sometimes, after a tight turn, it will have a really hard "bump/glitch" (for lack of a better term) in the middle of the steering, and won't stay in the center... It darts over center, and turns hard the other way, then back and forth, and so on... At that point, even at 30-40mph, it's almost completely uncontrollable... To put it another way, had my wife been driving it when this happened, she'd have crashed (and she's not a crasher)...

If you jack it up with the engine off, the steering wheel has a glitch in the middle, or sometimes slightly off center, and you have to turn REALLY hard on the wheel to get over said clitch... The glitch isn't always in the same place, and is sometimes worse than other times...

It's had an alignment (Monday, I thought it was toed horribly, but it was pretty close, and is now right on), and the tie rod ends are OK. Frame doesn't appear to be cracked at the steering mount. Shackles and spring mounts seem fine.

I'm just trying to figure out now if I'm looking at a steering box/gear, or at kingpins...

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

What exactly is it wondering about?

So as to not just start throwing parts at it, is this issue typical of king pins being bad, or of the steering box going out? Or something I haven't thought of?

Most of my experience with stuff like this has been with IFS GM stuff, and I've never had this happen on anything with a straight front axle before... Then again, I've never had a steering box/gear go out, either...

Thanks,
Mike

ETA: Oh, I get it! I mis-read your post... It was a joke about the wandering, and I had typed "wondering"...

Don't those 1st gen Dodge trucks have a common problem with steering shafts? Specifically the coupling between the steering box and the column?

Get a buddy and have him work the wheel in the driveway and look over every single TRE, column U-joint, King Pin and bushing there is on the front end.

You find slop. Replace it.

Don't those 1st gen Dodge trucks have a common problem with steering shafts? Specifically the coupling between the steering box and the column?

i dont know if its 1st gen specific,or if im just lucky, ;) my 96 wandered terribly when i got it and the u joint in the steering shaft at the steering box was bad. just like a driveshaft u joint and the needles were gone and the slop was enuff you could turn the wheel half a turn either way before the wheels even started to move :eek: definately check that out.

wandering or vauge road feel is usually a lack of caster.

your rough spot sounds like bad balls or some other issue inside the box itself.

if somewhere aligned your truck without finding any kingpins,TREs,etc.,that are indeed bad,go back,kick the manager in the balls and demad your $$ back. you cant align something with bad parts.

i dont know if its 1st gen specific,or if im just lucky, ;) my 96 wandered terribly when i got it and the u joint in the steering shaft at the steering box was bad. just like a driveshaft u joint and the needles were gone and the slop was enuff you could turn the wheel half a turn either way before the wheels even started to move :eek: definately check that out.

wandering or vauge road feel is usually a lack of caster.

your rough spot sounds like bad balls or some other issue inside the box itself.

if somewhere aligned your truck without finding any kingpins,TREs,etc.,that are indeed bad,go back,kick the manager in the balls and demad your $$ back. you cant align something with bad parts.

I'm inclined to believe that the wandering and the rough spot in the steering are related, because they both started at exactly the same time.

The tech who aligned it is actually a friend of mine, and has been the top tech at that GMC dealership for ~12 years... He's very sharp on that kind of stuff. He said all my angles are good, and none of my TRE's or king pins had excessive play... Wheel bearings were fine. I checked them last night. Up until last night (i.e. while he was driving it) it had just been some wandering, but last night it did the rough spot / horrible over-correction thing. It wasn't doing that when, before, or a bit after he looked at it. ETA: I take that back... There was a rough spot for a little bit before (i.e. they started at the same time), but not nearly as bad as last night...

At this point, I'm inclined to believe it's either the steering box that's hosed, or the linkage in the intermediate steering shaft that's hosed and binding... or both... I think I'll try the $8.00 steering shaft rebuild before I mess with the steering gear box...

Mike

The 1st gens are known to have their steering shafts wear and causing wondering/wandering:flipoff2: How much play is there in the steering wheel? I replaced the steering shaft on mine and it made a huge difference. They wear over time and you may not notice until it's too horrible to ignore. Other than that, check tie rod ends and the drag link, make sure the steering box is bolted securely onto the frame (they can loosen or tear off), then check that the springs, shackles and bushings are all good.

It's had the dead spot in the middle for quite some time, that was the steering shaft and recirc. ball play... This is different... Standard steering shaft play, then when you get up to one side of the play to correct, it feels normal for a second, then the vehicle shoots off the direction you were correcting... That's why I did the alignment, originally, because it felt like it was toed out, and was switching which tire it was tracking with...

Sitting in the driveway with a friend turning the wheel, everything looks normal... Nothing has any visible play (except steering shaft, of course), and nothing flops anywhere when you turn the wheel...

Mike

Mine did that.

I replaced that shitty plastic joint with a roundy-round steering joint, and some 3/4" solid stock from the hardware store.
Part Number 30305 Steering quickener Joint (http://www.loufegersracing.com/28.html)

Steering was better but still sucked. I got all the kingpin stuff, because that seemed like the next place to go. While taking it all apart I noticed that the pass side axle u-joint only moved freely in one axis. I went and pulled the pass side shaft out of my spare axle and it was the same way. I put the axle back together with the new king pin stuff and axle joints, and it has been great since.

Anyway, pull the shafts and check the joints.

My '93 did this at 123k

The one thing that popped into my mind that no one else mentioned would be the axle u-joints. I had a Cherokee that had the exact same symptoms and it ended up being a u-joint. Needless to say, I was a little pissed at myself, since I took the shotgun approach and replaced a ton of shit that didn't need to be replaced.

The one thing that popped into my mind that no one else mentioned would be the axle u-joints. I had a Cherokee that had the exact same symptoms and it ended up being a u-joint. Needless to say, I was a little pissed at myself, since I took the shotgun approach and replaced a ton of shit that didn't need to be replaced.

Hmmm...

Though, after I turned the engine on (front end already on jack stands) and turned the wheel side to side a few times to get rid of the glitch around the center, I was able to turn the wheels from lock to lock by hand, back-turning everything all the way up to the steering wheel... The wandering came back as soon as there was weight on everything...

I guess I'll do the steering shaft rebuild and see what that does, then if it's still there, I'll do the steering gear box (at least needs new seals anyway, due to leaking, so wouldn't be a horrible thing to replace as it is, given that I plan on keeping this truck)... If it's still there, I'll just rebuild the damned kingpins and put U-joints in there while I'm at it... This truck was U-S-E-D by the original owner (farmer) for the first 100k of its life, so none of this stuff is probably bad to do, given the mileage...

We'll see about the first 2 things by tomorrow evening (have tomorrow off)...

If anybody else has thoughts, I'd still like to hear them...

Thanks,
Mike

my trucks would wander like crazy, almost scary, going down the road. replaced the shafts with the borgeson unit, and the steering/wander improved immensly

... And it looks like the winner winner, chicken dinner is:

The one thing that popped into my mind that no one else mentioned would be the axle u-joints. I had a Cherokee that had the exact same symptoms and it ended up being a u-joint. Needless to say, I was a little pissed at myself, since I took the shotgun approach and replaced a ton of shit that didn't need to be replaced.

Rebuilt the steering shaft for $10 and an hour and a half (about half getting the rag bolts off the first time)... Got rid of the dead spot in the middle, and made the wandering easier to control, but still there...

I pulled back into the driveway and locked the front hubs in (in 2WD), and went around the block again... Wandering is completely gone in a straight line, but lurches 2x per wheel revolution in corners... Yep... Outter U-joints... Crap.

I guess this gives me the reason I've been needing to head to Harbor Freight and pick up that $150 arbor press... I've beat enough U-joints out, and smashed my hand quite enough, thankyouverymuch...

Will update if this fixes problem...

Thanks,
Mike

...

I guess this gives me the reason I've been needing to head to Harbor Freight and pick up that $150 arbor press... I've beat enough U-joints out, and smashed my hand quite enough, thankyouverymuch...
...

The $39 u-joint/ball-joint/brake anchor pin press with judicious use of an impact works dandy too. Just have to "understand" rust science (know when to load it up and use a hammer to resonate things apart as opposed to just cranking on it). I used it when I rebuilt my hp60 from the 70s that sat in a field for years and had no trouble getting the u-joints out.

Wonderful... I hate getting into a job and not having the tools to finish it... I have the 4 and 6-tang spindle nut sockets, but it would seem that these 4 years of this model use a 2-9/16" hex nut for the spindle... I really hope Carquest or somebody has this locally... Advanced and Napa looked at me like "uh... what"...

Mike

... And it looks like the winner winner, chicken dinner is:



Rebuilt the steering shaft for $10 and an hour and a half (about half getting the rag bolts off the first time)... Got rid of the dead spot in the middle, and made the wandering easier to control, but still there...

I pulled back into the driveway and locked the front hubs in (in 2WD), and went around the block again... Wandering is completely gone in a straight line, but lurches 2x per wheel revolution in corners... Yep... Outter U-joints... Crap.

I guess this gives me the reason I've been needing to head to Harbor Freight and pick up that $150 arbor press... I've beat enough U-joints out, and smashed my hand quite enough, thankyouverymuch...

Will update if this fixes problem...

Thanks,
Mike

i am extremely confused how u joints can be causing a wandering issue(or any issue) when hubs are unlocked and the transfer case is in 2wd. :confused:

i am extremely confused how u joints can be causing a wandering issue(or any issue) when hubs are unlocked and the transfer case is in 2wd. :confused:

The axle shafts still turn with the knuckle during steering - the binding/bad u-joints load/unload as the knuckle sweeps around the kingpin axis.

Brian

The axle shafts still turn with the knuckle during steering - the binding/bad u-joints load/unload as the knuckle sweeps around the kingpin axis.

Brian

Yep... Exactly...

By the way, I got the driver's side apart... finally... Should have taken the 2-9/16" rounded hex, but apparently the bearings had been replaced before, because it actually took a 2.5" sharp hex... Got them apart, though...

Yeah, the U-joints were FACHED, at least on the driver's side (which is the only one I've got apart as of yet)... One of them was just worn out, and a little dry... One of them was dry and dusty/rusty, but we were able to still get the needle bearings out with a screwdriver and hammer... The other 2 were dry, rusty/dusty, and the needle bearings were welded together... They all had to be beat off of the center cross after they were pressed out... When we got the shaft out, you literally couldn't move it either direction at the U-joint without hitting it on the work bench or something... I'm surprised it wasn't an issue until now!

Mike

The axle shafts still turn with the knuckle during steering - the binding/bad u-joints load/unload as the knuckle sweeps around the kingpin axis.

Brian

thats a reasonable answer to explain some binding when turning,but im still not buying into the notion that bad u joints are causing wandering.

thats a reasonable answer to explain some binding when turning,but im still not buying into the notion that bad u joints are causing wandering.

They were locked up enough that when not spinning, they would make the wheel want to stay pointing the direction it was pointing... So I would correct one way, and the knuckle would want to stay pointed that way... back and forth... Made worse by the dead spot in the middle of the steering, thanks to the intermediate steering shaft I also rebuilt...

I really wouldn't have guessed it, except it completely went away in a straight line when I locked the hubs in...

We'll see if that's all it is in a week or so, when I get it finished (time at a premium right now, and this is a spare vehicle)...

Mike

sounds reasonable. let us know how it goes :)

sounds reasonable. let us know how it goes :)

I definately will... Even if it's not the cause of my wandering, they are totally, completely toast anyway, so I'm not hurt about changing them... Also let me see that I need new outer brake lines, as well, and my rotors are rusted on the inboard side, so I'm just doing new pads, rotors, and lines while I've got it apart...

Mike

yup,snowball affect ;)

while you are there spend the 12$ and replace the king pin bushings and springs.. they are cheep and easy to do if you are there... the only problem i ever had in the front end of my first gen is the kingpin bushings and the sterring shaft..300k and still going.... ohh it puked a lockout hub but that was my fault...:D:D

while you are there spend the 12$ and replace the king pin bushings and springs.. they are cheep and easy to do if you are there... the only problem i ever had in the front end of my first gen is the kingpin bushings and the sterring shaft..300k and still going.... ohh it puked a lockout hub but that was my fault...:D:D

Thanks. I had the top of the drivers side kindpin off, and it looked really good... It's back together, though, so I'll hang out for a bit, now...

Was out of town all weekend (brother's birthday in ABQ), but got everything on the driver's side cleaned up, cleaned inside the hub, new seals, new bearings, new rotor and studs pressed together, etc... Will be ready to put the driver's side back together the next evening I have to work on it...

As it happens, my car knew that my truck was down, and broke a plastic coolant Tee in the intake manifold (of course, broke the threads off inside the intake)... Got a ride home from a co-worker, got dad's truck and my buddy's car trailer, so I'm going to take the rig to work tomorrow and bring my car home... Should only take an evening to fix, but damn... Second time EVER I've had a vehicle strand me somewhere, and it's a $5.00 part, so I guess I can't complain...

Mike

Got 'er back together... The passenger side U-joint was so stiff that both my dad and I were hanging on the outer shaft (inner in the vice) to get the joint bent enough to get the C-clips off...

While I had it apart, I ended up doing axle U-joints, stub shaft bearings (straight bearing, inside the spindle), all seals, NAPA premium rotors and top of the line pads, wheel studs, and new outer brake hoses... Kept the wheel bearings as they were "made in Japan" NTN bearings that were in perfect shape, as well as the races in the hub that still had the "non-directional finish" on them, so I just cleaned the bearings and re-packed them, and re-assembled...

It drives like a dream, now! Really, Thank You guys!

Mike

Sounds like you got it fixed up, but one thing to watch out for on these trucks....which I don't know if its common or not, but I had a buddy that chased steering issues all over the place rebuilt king pins etc... and never could get rid of a wandering/deathmarch condition, until finally his box started to tear off the frame.

The steering box bolts to a plate which then bolts to the frame....at the time (2004) the local dodge dealer had the plates instock for ~$30....cheap fix and it restored steering back to like new (with all other new parts he had already tried.)

Justin

It's semi-common, but this one hasn't done it... One of the first things I checked with a buddy working the steering wheel, and me looking under the front of the truck...

Thanks,
Mike