I'd like to try to start a discussion for those that do this for a living. And, if not for a living, a way to bring in a steady income to support this hobby/sport/lifestyle. For those that own their own shops, where did you start? I've gotten a few requests from my customers at my full time job if I wanted to install chrome bumpers and fog lights on their brand new JKs that they won't even drive in the rain with. But I decline because I'm afraid I'll screw something up and be in shit over my head.

A little background on myself. I used to be an hourly tech at a Jeep dealership in high school. I'd work on some basic stuff and "shadow" a flat rate tech on the more intricate jobs like engine swaps and differential rebuilds. I work at a tax office and stare at Excel spreadsheets all day until I want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon. I've had five knee surgeries, intermittently walk with a cane and am a severe hemophiliac. I cannot leave my current job because I have full benefits; last time I ordered my medication for hemophilia the price was $32,800. Benefits. Are. A. Must.

But I want to do this. All I do is read tech all day. I own a YJ thats been beat to shit and want to do all this stuff to it; four link, one tons, build a V8 and so on. But I can't because I also just bought a house and am barely making mortgage payments and buying groceries. Next year my Dad and I are shooting to build a garage if I can afford it. I'm hoping for 12' doors and tall ceilings so I can have a lift. Also a 600 amp service for welders and benders and plasma cutters. I already own a 220 Hobart, but my house isn't wired up for 220 at an accessible location yet. My Dad's a master carpenter so I'm sure in about a month I'll start off practicing my welds on scrap metal.

All in all, where should my starting point be? I'm 25 now and I'm not afraid to tear anything apart. I also just bought an XJ a couple weeks ago and within 15m of parking it in my driveway I already had the sawzall out cutting the fenders. Twenty years from now I plan on having two jobs. One will be where I'm working now, and I'm hoping the other won't be at a drivethru window. Just hoping one day I'll be the one starting a build thread as opposed to being the one reading them. I just ask for some advice and input that will send me in the right direction.

Thanks for reading.

-Justin

you don't need 600 amps....so you can save some $ there. 200amp is typically plenty for a small shop.

Next find some friends into what you like to do. Find a buddy that is a decent fabricator or one of those guys willing to do his own work and is learning. Hang out, help out and get doing it. There really is no other way, than just putting yourself out there. Some of the best stuff I have ever learned and have been able to do is on other peoples dime just because they wanted to do it and I was their willing to help.

Save your money, don't buy crap you don't need, and prioritize where your $ goes.

you don't need 600 amps....so you can save some $ there. 200amp is typically plenty for a small shop.

Next find some friends into what you like to do. Find a buddy that is a decent fabricator or one of those guys willing to do his own work and is learning. Hang out, help out and get doing it. There really is no other way, than just putting yourself out there. Some of the best stuff I have ever learned and have been able to do is on other peoples dime just because they wanted to do it and I was their willing to help.

Save your money, don't buy crap you don't need, and prioritize where your $ goes.

Yea, its kind of hard for me right now. I just moved and its a very small town. I'm sort of shy but I've met a few folks by tooling around town in my YJ back when it was running that are into four wheeling. Also joined a local group that do a lot of wheeling; not so much fabbing though. You're right though. I really need to get together with a few folks in my area.

No offense, but a hemophiliac with a sawzall just sounds like a bad bad thing.
X2 on finding the friends/clubs to get involved with. Maybe some welding classes at a community college.

No offense, but a hemophiliac with a sawzall just sounds like a bad bad thing.
.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :flipoff2:

No offense, but a hemophiliac with a sawzall just sounds like a bad bad thing.

Monday mornings are rough.

"Justin, you realize you have a bandage on 8 of your 10 fingers and are walking with a limp right?"

"Yep. But my Jeep now has push button ignition and the winch is working great!"

Its the reason why I left working at the dealership and had to find myself a desk job. :(

Its the reason why I left working at the dealership and had to find myself a desk job. :(

and you want to go from paper cuts to power tools? You need to move this to the trailer park so at least your life insurance agent can't find it when he is trying to rule out suicide.

and you want to go from paper cuts to power tools? You need to move this to the trailer park so at least your life insurance agent can't find it when he is trying to rule out suicide.

It was actually my knees. I need to have the ability to take a seat and let my knees rest. After a couple hours of standing I can feel my knees swell up. Just having the ability to take a chair for 5m makes all the difference. Cuts and bruises don't phase me at all. :D

Hey man, I'm in a similar boat as you except I do handyman and landscaping work on the side and my medical issues aren't nearly as extreme.

If those guys want you to throw on some chrome shit that'll help them conquer big ghey truck mountain, just do it. I do things in people's homes that I've never done before, but I tell them up front that it's my first time, explain how I'm going to do it, and I take responsibility for what I do. If I goof something up, I fix it on my dime; if it takes me longer than is reasonable because I didn't know something and had to learn the hard way, I don't charge them for the extra time. The bottom line is, if they know up front that you aren't a professional they will likely still be ok with it. If you're afraid, write up a little contract. If you don't attempt, you can't get any referrals. Most of my work has been through referrals from the few initial jobs I did. If I'm not comfortable doing something they ask, I tell them I won't do it; for me this usually amounts to major electrical repair, everything else has books on it and can't be fucked up by me too badly.


You gotta just start doing it. Even if the initial jobs aren't what are ideal, you'll get deeper in. I hate doing plain yard cleanups, but I've had a few that I did a nice job on that turned in to full on patios, which I'd rather do that pull weeds.

If you want to do this as a business.. remember, the #1 goal of any business is to make $$$. How you go about it will determine your success. Good work at a fair price with an emphasis on great customer service is a pretty good recipe in my book.

Be realistic in your ability. If you don't feel comfortable with a job, don't do it. Don't use a customer's rig to "practice" on. As you learn more, you'll be able to take on more extreme jobs. This works hand-in-hand with networking too.. if you can't/don't want to do a job, learn who will/can do the job and pass along the business. Develop good relationships with similar shops and you can help each other out. If I'm too busy to do a cage in the timeline that the customer needs.. I refer them to a couple other buddies who also do cage work.

Don't treat the vehicles like their yours... treat them like they belong to your customers and they don't want their shit fawked up. Fender covers, welding blankets etc.. vehicle should leave your shop in better shape than when it arrived. Another thing you should have if you work on other people's junk.. insurance.

Keep a watchful eye on spending. Uncontrolled spending is a dagger thru the heart of any small business. You need to keep detailed records of expenses. You'll be surprised at how much you actually spend on small stuff to do a job. Every tool you use, every grinding disk, every inch of welding wire, every kilowatt of electricity, every nut/bolt... etc. When you add up all your overhead, it's easy to discover that you work for less then minimum wage on some jobs. I've actually done a few jobs where it would've been better to have given the customer $100 and sent them on their merry way without even touching their rig. Whoever coined the phrase "it takes money to make money" must have been a small business owner..

Learn to quote accurately. Don't tell someone it'll cost $500 and halfway into the job, you need to call them and raise the price to $1000. Remember, customers work hard for their money. Raising prices after quoting looks suspicious. I'd rather quote high and come in low on the final price.

Start off slow and work into it. In the Army, it's called the "Crawl, Walk, Run" method.. it works.

Justin,

Look at picking up a mill and lathe. With power feeds, you can sit on a stool when work is progressing, and with time/effort be able to produce customer parts for other projects.

Do buy some good rubber floor mats. I had some cheap ones, which didn't help at all. I've since bought good $80 (3' x 5') cushion mats and they make a huge difference on my feet. Also learned my cheap (worn out) shop shoes are not a bargain. $100 for decent tennis shoes with more cushion help. Two hours shop time or six hours shop time, shoes and the mat are the only difference!

What part of the country are you in? 200A Garage Service should be fine. I originally went to upgrade the house to 400A (200A to house, 200A to shop), but it is commercial electrical rates. Ouch... two feeds, two meters.

Tom

I've actually done a few jobs where it would've been better to have given the customer $100 and sent them on their merry way without even touching their rig. Whoever coined the phrase "it takes money to make money" must have been a small business owner..

Learn to quote accurately. Don't tell someone it'll cost $500 and halfway into the job, you need to call them and raise the price to $1000. Remember, customers work hard for their money. Raising prices after quoting looks suspicious. I'd rather quote high and come in low on the final price.




lmao, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has projects like that. :shaking:


I can't stress the accurate quoting enough. I have spent the last 18 months figuring out just exactly how to price my work so that all overhead is covered, taxes paid, and I have enough left in my pocket at the end of the day to pay personal bills. It isn't for the faint of heart that is for sure. That is why everything is expensive. If I can't get what I need to be profitable on a job, I just don't bother with it. I can lose money well enough on my own without putting 20 hours into a loser project.

Thanks for the replies.

So 600 amp is overkill eh? Hah, alright thanks for clearing that up. As for the work itself, last thing I want is to practice on customer cars. That's what I'm afraid of.

I guess what I'll do is get on the horn on my local forums and see if there is anyone that has some work to do on their rigs and see about doing some wrenching together. Just need to work on my networking as I am rather new to the area. I'll also stop saving for lift kits and axles and put that money towards drill presses, lathes, and other tools.

If I could just really start fabbing up, say, front bumpers for YJs and sell them I'd be happier than a pig in shit.

I appreciate the advice. I'll put it to use. Thanks mates.

Excellent advice here. Quoting a job is hard, at least at first. On one hand you want the work, but you can't work for free. And if you quote what your time is really worth you're afraid you'll lose the job.

Also as stated so hard to prioritize expenditures. The list of things I want is huge, but at some point you've gotta ask if you *need* them at this moment. Plasma table, sheetmetal brake and lots more bender dies are just 3 items from my list.

I used to try and earn hobby money making crap for other people. It worked OK until I saturated the small nitch market I had (cut and turning Scout axles) and ended up driving my own prices down...

If I try it again I will need to find a better nitch with a wider market and produce products at a rate that doesn't compete with myself.

I have a day job too so I was able to do this for 'extra truck money' which kept it fun and way less stress than a regular job. And since I didn't have to pay the rent with the money I was making I learned to say 'NO'.

The list of things I want is huge, but at some point you've gotta ask if you *need* them at this moment. Plasma table, sheetmetal brake and lots more bender dies are just 3 items from my list.

My Plasma Tables:

Small is a scrap metal box 12" x 36" tall. I fitted some 1/4" x 1" steel grating across the 12" opening (it used to be a swing arm gate at the old Austin Airport. $5 scrap). Mounted it on some 1" tubing. [Edit... Hypertherm 900 sit under the box. Caster wheels so I can roll outside for cutting, but keep the shop pad clean).

Big plasma table.... sawhorses with 2x4's across it. Stand offs are water pipe across the 2x4. Brings a new meaning to the word "consumable". Price, scrap from when they were building a house across the street. Yes, I did wonder who fired up the wood BBQ for a few minutes before thinking.... oh chit...

Sheet Metal Brake.... 48" JET. Expensive, but paid off buying a better one that I can adjust the setback on so I can use radius nose for sheet metal.

Bender Dies... stock + Lathe. Takes time. 1018 + Kasenite is fine for most forming dies.

Wish List:

Small heat treating oven and a surface grinder on next on my tool list.

Tom

Expect to work lots of hours and earn minimum wage when all is said and done.

It's not an easy living by any stretc.

Don't borrow money.

Don't buy blingin' new tools.

Don't buy a tool that won't pay for itself immediately. I bought a new plasma/stick/TIG. The job I'm using it on will pay for it, hence my purchase. Speaking of which, I'm gona go back to work using it.

Expect to work lots of hours and earn minimum wage when all is said and done.

It's not an easy living by any stretc.

Don't borrow money.

Don't buy blingin' new tools.

Don't buy a tool that won't pay for itself immediately. I bought a new plasma/stick/TIG. The job I'm using it on will pay for it, hence my purchase. Speaking of which, I'm gona go back to work using it.

All good advice there!

All good advice there!

Yeah, sure. What with all my fancy education, I should know how, but still make the same mistakes on a regular basis.

But, I made the mortgage for another month.

But, I made the mortgage for another month.


As far as I'm concerned that is a win.

I was considering legitimately starting a business regearing axles, after a few discussions with Eddie(BESRK) and some other locals and looking at the hoops I need to jump through and my resources I realized it wasn't feasible. Can't register a mechanical/automotive type business in a residential area. It would cost too much for me to get a spot in a business park or something like that I would want to work in... Can't register a business in a storage unit either:laughing:

I do regearing on the side, just don't actively advertise it or anything. I have done a few regears and gotten a bunch of other people interested as well. I will say that when I do a gear set it is generally at the expense of most of my weekend. Do I want to do it every single weekend? Probably not. If I get somebody that wants an axle regeared then I charge them accordingly so it's worth my time.