I have had an ever growing list of things that have been needing to get done on my shitbox. The list is comprised of things that waver from needs, to wants, to probably should do's.

In an effort to battle some motivational issues and get some ideas/suggestions of what I should do along the way, I decided to start a continuous re-vamp thread. The deadline on some of these first items is Memorial Day weekend. Or even better yet, a couple of weeks before...to shake it down:homer:.

MUST DO's:
Tranny cooler relocation
Dana 20 to Dana 300 swap
New tranny/t-case crossmember
Bench rear seat install (for full family wheeling)
New fuel cell and fuel lines (prepping for FI)
Hydro assist + cooler install
New rear leaf springs + perches + outboarding shocks
Traction/anti-wrap bar

CAN DO'S:
Head light wiring harness and new assemblies
Sliders
Front bumper change
Aluminum skin top


So here we go...

I have a long shaft TH400 BOP transmission. It is out of a 67'ish Buick if I recall. It has a looooong output shaft and is a pain to mate anything to.

The current configuration is the BOP TH400/Dana20 adapter/Dana20.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515888&stc=1&d=1271188405

Here you can see the simple angle mounted crossmember and single pivot poly mount. This layout has been allowing more and more vibration/twist as the years have passed. Plus I have broken two of the Dana20 ouput shafts now. (for other reasons that will be fixed - like spring wrap).

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515889&stc=1&d=1271188405

I am going to be switching that out to a GM aluminum (mystery) adapter/custom length spacer clocking ring/Dana 300. I just got in the JB Conversions 32 spline input shaft.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515890&stc=1&d=1271188405

This aluminum adapter is a mystery. I can't find any photos of it on the web...and the fellow I got it from last month *thought* it was from a AM or GM Hummer application. I have no info on it...so I hope it doesn't break.:shaking:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515891&stc=1&d=1271188405

Here is the adapter mockup and how much tail shaft I will have to space off.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515892&stc=1&d=1271188405

I can't really do anything from here until I install the input shaft. Then bottom it out on the tranny output shaft and see how long of a spacer/clocking ring I need to make. I guess everything will fall into place then.

The other option is to just source the correct tail shaft and have it put in the tranny...but that is a fucking pain in its own way.

Just judging by those pictures it looks like you're going to need a very thick spacer between the trans and T case. I think I have a couple 3/4" thick spacers but I bet you need much more than that.:eek:

Where's the picture of the tranny output without the adapter installed? If I remember right the splines on that output are really long. Can you trim some of the output off so your spacer doesn't need to be so big?

What held the D20 bull gear onto the trans shaft?

There is a splined "sleeve" that is pressed into the bearings in the adapter, then the bull gear is retained on the sleeve with a snap ring.

Ive been up for about 26 hrs so im a little groggy but before the last 3 mountian dews wear off heres my 2 cents worth. I believe what you really need is a adapter and tailshaft from a post 1980 truck with a 400/208 or 400/241. I don't think they should be all that hard to find and should be cheap. They were used from 1980 until they went to the 4l80E in 1991 so there a lot of the IFS 3/4 ton trucks in the pnp's with them. Ill bet if you put up an ad in the wanted section you will get some bites. There is a guy from NY who prowls there and sells stuff cheap. I bought a 27 spline 241 input for my klune from him. I may even have one of them, but I know I don't have a tailshaft, hit me up if you want it.

I had the output shaft of my 4l80E cut down way back when I built my doubler and the guy who cut it bitched and moaned that it was the hardest metal he ever cut.

Glad to see that you are nibbling away at the beast

I don't know if it will help any, but I have the OEM adapter from a TH400 to GM round pattern 205. I'm pretty sure that it's the same adapter that Chi is referring to. I don't have the TH400 output shaft though. If you need the adapter, let me know.

I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.

I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.

Where is the fun in that? Avoiding work on top of work..... Pfffff....

There is a splined "sleeve" that is pressed into the bearings in the adapter, then the bull gear is retained on the sleeve with a snap ring.

Rick...what he said. I then *sealed* it by gooping the shit out of the splines and the end of the shaft when I assembled it all together. I will snap a photo for posterity tonight.

Ive been up for about 26 hrs so im a little groggy but before the last 3 mountian dews wear off heres my 2 cents worth. I believe what you really need is a adapter and tailshaft from a post 1980 truck with a 400/208 or 400/241. I don't think they should be all that hard to find and should be cheap.

Glad to see that you are nibbling away at the beast

That is exactly the plan B Helmer. No matter what the Dana 300 needs the correct input put into it. So that is then next step. If this mockup doesn't look like it will work out too well...then I will have to go the "normal" direction of what you posted. I would only then be out the cost of the adapter I bought.

I don't know if it will help any, but I have the OEM adapter from a TH400 to GM round pattern 205. I'm pretty sure that it's the same adapter that Chi is referring to. I don't have the TH400 output shaft though. If you need the adapter, let me know.

I think round is round...205/208/231/241/300...So if I need to go with "plan B"...I might take you up on a photo or two of your adapter.

I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.

That is exactly the point....If I can get the thing to sit near the location of where the Dana 20 was. Then all I have to do is burn in a new cross member and bolt some shit up and go.

If it kicks it too far back (I am thinking 3" is where it will probably fall) then I will have to cut sheet metal, fuck with drive lines, etc.

That in itself will make "plan B" the way I have to go...and cheaper.

Where is the fun in that? Avoiding work on top of work..... Pfffff....

I am getting too lazy to even get the first tier of work done...let alone a second tier on top of that one.

Here is the quick and limited progress from yesterday:

The bed is all stripped of it's goodies. Gone is the leaky fuel cell, single bucket, oil cooler, air tank, hi-lift, and the spares box.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516111&stc=1&d=1271262397

Oooopppss...the BITCH CUTTER got turned on and sliced some tube that I really liked.:(

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516112&stc=1&d=1271262397

I had to stop progress around 7:30pm and go pick this up from a local guy. He bought it and had never used it. Rockstomper.com Hydro Assist kit. Got it for under listed price...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516113&stc=1&d=1271262397

Here is how long the shaft sticks out the back of the tranny without the adapter on it. Unfortunately the splines are as long as they are on a standard shaft.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516114&stc=1&d=1271262397

How long are the splines in the input? Slide the input on there and any exposed spline is how much you can trim.

...I think round is round...205/208/231/241/300...So if I need to go with "plan B"...I might take you up on a photo or two of your adapter...

I'm thinking that one or even two pics of the adapter would be too thin... personally, I would use the actual adapter. :flipoff2:

1. Snap on a set of Blue Nitrile Gloves
2. Pose with Sawzall for your meanest "I'ma cut you bitch" look
3. Get to work
516205
:flipoff2:

Good to see you back wrenchin' on the Scout HoS

Nicely done.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Thats a good one guidolyons... classic

Get back to work HOS !

:beer:

So after some deep thinking, searching, and input swapping I was able to lay some shit out and figure out the best direction to go.

The old Dana 20 adapter from mounting surface to mounting surface is 2.50" thick:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516486&stc=1&d=1271391842

The new Dana 300 adapter from mounting surface to mounting surface is 2.4375" thick:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516488&stc=1&d=1271391842

From there I measured to the top of the boss on the tranny side of the adapter:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516487&stc=1&d=1271391842

Then from the bottom of the splines to the top of my flat stock laid across the boss:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516489&stc=1&d=1271391842

From doing all of this it appears that I would need an almost 3" set back on any custom adapter I would make. This length on top of the already 1" longer Dana 300 would require me to cut lots of sheet metal, redo both drive lines...and take a while.

Soooo I am going to be pulling the tranny and taking it to the guy that I had rebuild it. For $125.00 he will strip the transmission, swap the input, and then re-gasket the entire thing. He is also going to sell me the output that I need for $50.00.

For $175.00 I will get everything I need to have done in a one day turn around. Then all I will need to pick up is a 5/8" - 3/4" clocking ring. This will make up for the difference in shaft length allowing +1/8" of clearance at the end of the input shaft. The result will be only about 1" of REAR drive shaft compression...which I think I have room to absorb.

The shaft on the left is a 1-1/2" stick out the rear shaft. The shaft on the right is a 2-1/2" stick out the rear shaft. I am going to run the one on the right:

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/400Shafts.jpg

Next step is to yard the tranny out.

I believe the adapter I mentioned earlier uses the 1-1/2" stick-out shaft. Sounds like you making some progress.... time to buy some stock in the blue rubber glove company.

I believe the adapter I mentioned earlier uses the 1-1/2" stick-out shaft. Sounds like you making some progress.... time to buy some stock in the blue rubber glove company.

Trying to keep on the progress. Otherwise the bitch will sit in the stall and get even dustier and will never get taken care of (updated).

I don't really want to pull the trans...but then thought about it again since I will already be replacing all my cooler lines, and needed a good fluid flush. So this is a pretty good way to kill it all, and be pretty close to the "correct" setup.

Tranny will be out by next week.

Is it just me, or are you posting pics twice?:homer:

Is it just me, or are you posting pics twice?:homer:

Not just you...Unfortunately if you want to explain what is going on in the photos...you either have to do it the way that I do, or number list your happenings. The reader then has to scroll back up and down, back up and down, etc.

Kind of shitty...but that is what it is.

FWIW I have these two laying around. The wide one is approx 4 inches, the narrow one 2.5. I wrote 400/208 on the wide one and 4l80E/241 on the narrow one, but that was a very long time ago and can't guarantee the accuracy. They are currently being used to help hold a set of overloaded shelves on the ground

FWIW I have these two laying around. The wide one is approx 4 inches, the narrow one 2.5. I wrote 400/208 on the wide one and 4l80E/241 on the narrow one, but that was a very long time ago and can't guarantee the accuracy. They are currently being used to help hold a set of overloaded shelves on the ground

The one on the left is the same one that I have. It's commonly called 400/208 since that is the most common use of it. But the 400/Round 205 uses the same adapter and tranny output shaft. I know this one came from a 400/205... Chi, Mr. Fubar, and myself pulled it from the truck on 9° day in a Chicago JY. FWIW, Chi, post an add in the For Sale section or cruise the Wanted section for someone looking for one.... I've seen them fetch $175. Of course, HOS could have it for far less.... like maybe a racey pic or two with some blue gloves... :lmao: :flipoff2:

Not just you...Unfortunately if you want to explain what is going on in the photos...you either have to do it the way that I do, or number list your happenings. The reader then has to scroll back up and down, back up and down, etc.

Kind of shitty...but that is what it is.
You're doing it wrong.

517202

See... Just like that:flipoff2:

If you click "insert all" under manage picture attachments it will insert the pics and you can describe what's going on in the pics without them showing again at the bottom:flipoff2:

You're doing it wrong.

517202

See... Just like that:flipoff2:

If you click "insert all" under manage picture attachments it will insert the pics and you can describe what's going on in the pics without them showing again at the bottom:flipoff2:

I must be blind.... I don't see any "insert all" thingy to click.

Newbs:laughing:
517383
:flipoff2:
517380
Can I interest you in some fresh blinker fluid:grinpimp:


Sorry for the hijack HoS...

Now back to your regularly scheduled blue nitrile glove enhanced tech:grinpimp:

Tranny is about out. It is being held in with 1 bolt...and is showing gappage.

My jack wouldn't go high enough and I didn't feel like cutting lumber @11:00 last night...:laughing:

Tonight it will be on the floor and ready to go to the tranny guy.

I also noticed that my aluminum adapter has a clocking rotation built into it...and unfortunately I think it will be pointing the T-case the wrong direction (IE DOWN!!). Regardless a clocking ring will be getting ordered.

HELMER:

What do you think you might want for the 2-1/2" thick adapter? I need it...



.

Dropped the transmission...literally.

The unit came right out but when I was down below trying to guide it out it started to slide off of the blocks. I had to rest it against the flex plate and my bicept. Luckily I have been working out...

I let the tranny slowly come down on me and took a burned fluid bath. The output shaft slowly ground it's grooves into my thigh!

The wife did not appreciate me yelling for her.

Dropped the tranny off with tranny dude an hour and a half away. He did not like the smell from it... I told him it has only about the equivilant of 750 or so miles on it and that it has always run hot....

Not looking forward to any bad news.

What Tranny is this, 727?

What Tranny is this, 727?

TH400.

Switch Pitch.

Mid-late 60's Buick/Olds.

Heavy.

TH400.



Heavy and big.

'They' say they weight in at about 145-150 pounds.

Dropped the transmission...literally.

The unit came right out but when I was down below trying to guide it out it started to slide off of the blocks. I had to rest it against the flex plate and my bicept. Luckily I have been working out...

I let the tranny slowly come down on me and took a burned fluid bath. The output shaft slowly ground it's grooves into my thigh!

The wife did not appreciate me yelling for her.

Dropped the tranny off with tranny dude an hour and a half away. He did not like the smell from it... I told him it has only about the equivilant of 750 or so miles on it and that it has always run hot....

Not looking forward to any bad news.
:rolleyes:


you know I have a tranny jack you could have borrowed :flipoff2:, or a beer, burgers and someone to watch the kids and wife and I could have helped :grinpimp:

:rolleyes:


you know I have a tranny jack you could have borrowed :flipoff2:, or a beer, burgers and someone to watch the kids and wife and I could have helped :grinpimp:

Dude....

Shit is so busy right now. I am watching the days tick by so fast. I am hoping for the best on the tranny shit an the shaft swap.

From there it will be a BootyFab fest to finish the rig by Memorial Day.nnibam an expert at the booty fab!

Dropped the transmission...literally.

The unit came right out but when I was down below trying to guide it out it started to slide off of the blocks. I had to rest it against the flex plate and my bicept. Luckily I have been working out...

I let the tranny slowly come down on me and took a burned fluid bath. The output shaft slowly ground it's grooves into my thigh!

The wife did not appreciate me yelling for her.

Dropped the tranny off with tranny dude an hour and a half away. He did not like the smell from it... I told him it has only about the equivilant of 750 or so miles on it and that it has always run hot....

Not looking forward to any bad news.
From the day you said you were going to have the output shaft changed, I was thinking to myself why not rebuild the trans while it's completely torn down to swap the shafts? The cost of the rebuild kit isn't that much and there's not that much additional labor... but I know you were trying to keep costs down, so I didn't mention it. Sounds like a rebuild is probably going to happen now.

From the day you said you were going to have the output shaft changed, I was thinking to myself why not rebuild the trans while it's completely torn down to swap the shafts? The cost of the rebuild kit isn't that much and there's not that much additional labor... but I know you were trying to keep costs down, so I didn't mention it. Sounds like a rebuild is probably going to happen now.

Well the thing about a rebuild is that I shouldn't fucking need one. The tranny only has the equivilant of about 1000 miles on it. BUT for some reason the thing has been runnng solo super hot. I just don't get it.

Tranny guy and I talked about doing a "refresh" of the tranny assuming that there was no contamination. Talked to him yesterday and the good news is that there was none.

So here is what was done to the tranny:

New output shaft
Case drained and hung for inspection
New frictions/clutches for the front/rear drive? Like 10 frictions.
New reverse band
New filter
New gasket set

it came in a little higher than I was budgeting...but will be worth it. I am also going to relocate my temp gauge bung to the pan. I am also relocating the Derale coer to the engine compartment to shorten the run and get that loud bitch out of the cab.

Picking up the tranny on Saturday. I have lots to fucking get done.

Well the thing about a rebuild is that I shouldn't fucking need one. The tranny only has the equivilant of about 1000 miles on it. BUT for some reason the thing has been runnng solo super hot. I just don't get it.

Tranny guy and I talked about doing a "refresh" of the tranny assuming that there was no contamination. Talked to him yesterday and the good news is that there was none.

So here is what was done to the tranny:

New output shaft
Case drained and hung for inspection
New frictions/clutches for the front/rear drive? Like 10 frictions.
New reverse band
New filter
New gasket set

it came in a little higher than I was budgeting...but will be worth it. I am also going to relocate my temp gauge bung to the pan. I am also relocating the Derale coer to the engine compartment to shorten the run and get that loud bitch out of the cab.

Picking up the tranny on Saturday. I have lots to fucking get done.

I personally do not like the temp sensor in the pan. Your gauge will just tell you how well your cooler is working, but does not let you know how hot the trans is getting. It is my firm belief that the sensor should be T'd into the hot line leaving the trans and going to the cooler. Then the gauge will be reading the temp of the fluid after it has been worked instead of reading the temp of the fluid after it has been cooled and dumped back into the pan.

That is where I have the sensor currently and it read so hot (295+) that it broke the gauge. Overwound the spring and ruined it. Both the gauge and the thermocouple were new.

Getting pretty frustrating.

That is where I have the sensor currently and it read so hot (295+) that it broke the gauge. Overwound the spring and ruined it. Both the gauge and the thermocouple were new.

Getting pretty frustrating.

You need to shut it down long before 295.:eek:

That is where I have the sensor currently and it read so hot (295+) that it broke the gauge. Overwound the spring and ruined it. Both the gauge and the thermocouple were new.

Getting pretty frustrating.

There ya go... now you know why your fluid was burnt to shit. Moving the sensor to the pan will only give you some false peace of mind. The guage will look happy and you will be happy.... until the trans shits the bed because you didn't know it was getting hot.

Something else is going on with the setup and until whatever that is get resolved, your destined for a repeat like Billy Murray in Groundhog Day. FWIW, I have the exact same issue in my CTD. In my case, it is due to an extremely tight torque converter. My TC is so tight, that the truck pulls pretty hard at idle. I once recovered an Ford Ranger sunk to the axles in mud by simply putting my truck in low range and letting my foot off the brake.... never had to touch the throttle.

When the TC is engaged and pulling and you sit there with your foot on the brake, there is a whole lot of "slipping" going on in the TC and that equals HEAT. If I have to sit for extended periods (like a traffic jam, looooong light, or long line at a drive through, my trans temp with climb to the sky. I have to drop it into neutral to keep the temp under control. People look at me funny in the sweltering heat when we're stuck in stop and go traffic and I'm sitting next to them with my truck in neutral and the engine cranked up to 1500 RPM.

Yeah, its sucks, but that's the price you pay for performance and longetivity when towing with an automatic. I know you've got a switch pitch and I don't know much about those... is it the stock TC? Are there even any aftermarket S/P TC's out there? Does the TH400 circulate oil in park? My 47RE did not, but that hydraulic circuit was modified at the time of the performance rebuild and now it does.

Noob question alert...:homer:

Since I toasted the 727 in my rig shortly after a rebuild, I'm wondering what options we might have. I have the 727 in the 800. The radiator is stock 800, and I run a large tranny cooler in front of the radiator.

I think of an auto is a hydraulic pump, but can you put a booster pump in the line going to the cooler and would it help or just mess with the tranny function?

can you put a booster pump in the line going to the cooler and would it help or just mess with the tranny function?

I wouldn't do this. That's a return line to the pan so it's not under any real pressure due to there not being a restriction there. Putting a pump here at best would be creating a vacuum comming out of the trans and most pumps won't even do this. If you did find a pump to do it you would be subjecting parts to vacuum that are designed to be under pressure.....Having said this I've never known anyone to try this so you could be the first. Report back and let us know.:smokin:

Noob question alert...:homer:

Since I toasted the 727 in my rig shortly after a rebuild, I'm wondering what options we might have. I have the 727 in the 800. The radiator is stock 800, and I run a large tranny cooler in front of the radiator.

I think of an auto is a hydraulic pump, but can you put a booster pump in the line going to the cooler and would it help or just mess with the tranny function?

Don't do it. Since the output flow of the trans is determined by the pump curve of the trans pump, adding another pump inline is not going to increase flow through the cooler. Size the pump too big and you'll starve the pump and it'll cavitate, or it will pull the excess fluid it's asking for from the trans permaturely and starve trans components. Size the pump too small and it'll just be a restriction reducing the amount of fluid passing through the cooler and elevating pressures in the trans which could also have adverse affects. If you somehow were able to match the flow trans pump, all you could hope to do is raise the pressure in the cooler.

Besides, heat exchangers are designed for a certain amount of fluid velocity/flowrate through them. If you speed up the fluid passing through it, you reduce the contact time between the fluid and the cooler reducing the coolers efficiency. Slow the fluid down too much and it can have too much contact time with the cooler which can exceed the rate at which the cooler can disipate the heat to the air.

It's a delicate balance between a multitude of variables to get a heat exchanger to operate at maximum efficiency.

.....Having said this I've never known anyone to try this so you could be the first. Report back and let us know.:smokin:

I can see it now... "Weekend Update 12/10/2010 Well that aux cooling pump I tried fried the tranny again...:mad3:"


Don't do it. Since the output flow of the trans is determined by the pump curve of the trans pump, adding another pump inline is not going to increase flow through the cooler. Size the pump too big and you'll starve the pump and it'll cavitate, or it will pull the excess fluid it's asking for from the trans permaturely and starve trans components. Size the pump too small and it'll just be a restriction reducing the amount of fluid passing through the cooler and elevating pressures in the trans which could also have adverse affects. If you somehow were able to match the flow trans pump, all you could hope to do is raise the pressure in the cooler.

Besides, heat exchangers are designed for a certain amount of fluid velocity/flowrate through them. If you speed up the fluid passing through it, you reduce the contact time between the fluid and the cooler reducing the coolers efficiency. Slow the fluid down too much and it can have too much contact time with the cooler which can exceed the rate at which the cooler can disipate the heat to the air.

It's a delicate balance between a multitude of variables to get a heat exchanger to operate at maximum efficiency.

I'm firmly in the "what if" camp on this. It seems there are lots of questions on overheating automatcs and I just wonder how much of it is an issue of swapping a tranny in a system that was not designed for that tranny and the cooling system is not working properly.

Hjack off.

Any updates HOS? What did you find out from your trans guy? Anything weird going on inside?

some dumb fawk sent him the wrong adapter and missed the post office today by 10 minutes with the correct one:shaking: Hos tell the wifey not to open the next box with a knife

Any updates HOS? What did you find out from your trans guy? Anything weird going on inside?

So I picked up the tranny last week and have been swamped with trying to get things ordered, work, more work, and then everyday life.

For 280.00 here is what I got:

New output shaft
Case drained and hung for inspection
New frictions/clutches for the front/rear drive? Like 10 frictions.
New reverse band
New filter
New gasket set
Labor

He says that it looks like it was getting warm...but he can't see why it is/was. He does want me to put the temp thermocouple in the pan. He says that the fluid coming right off of the converter is so hot that it is a false reading of what the other fluid temp is within the tranny.

He says that if my tranny was getting as hot as I think it was, then it will show it even in the pan location.

So we are going to do a little test when I install the tranny and relocate the coolers etc.

1. Run the tranny with no power. This will allow it to act like a dumb old TH400 with NO Switch Pitch.
2. After monitoring that temperature, hook up the 12V to the Switch Pitch terminal and see if I can get the temps to rise.

I am happy that I will at least get to use the thing this summer.

some dumb fawk sent him the wrong adapter and missed the post office today by 10 minutes with the correct one:shaking: Hos tell the wifey not to open the next box with a knife

ChiScouter...The package arrived this afternoon! Thank you very, very much for shipping out the other adapter. I will post up the long adapter on the local board and see if I can get any bites for you.

So the past week/weekend has been busier that a hot whore in a homeless shelter. BUT last weekend I got to spend some quality garage time. Most of it was spent on cleaning the garage to get it in some kind of shape to work on the shit box.

Front end off, wheels/tires off, and ready for stripping the rear garbage off. Ohh and obviously the interior and pretty much everything else is out of it too.
522591

I am really digging only having 4 bolts holding on the front facia.

Looks like I am going to be mounting the power steering on the right side of the radiator. The Derale tranny cooler is going to get relocated into the engine compartment and near the master cylinder. I was running the stacked plate cooler in line with the Derale...but I think I might bypass that cooler.
522592

The old leaf springs. FUCK YEAH. One thing that bug's me about some GM, Chevy etc. applications is the use of different sized bushings and thus bolts for the fucking shackles. I will be using all 9/16" bolts on the rear of the pile. Details to follow on my fuck up....
522593

Wife came out to make sure I wasn't bleeding yet. She is a little gun-shy after I bench pressed the TH400. She wanted to take a photo for me to show you guys that I suck.

This was from today...stripping the two sets of different perches off of the Dana 60. The stock cast perches are a fucking paaaaaiiiinnn to get off. They burned the piss out of those things on. Axle is now stripped and ready for mock up.
522594

Last weekend and the past two days have been fueled by this, and protected by my tiki god:
522595

Next up will be

1. Turning down some poly bushings:rolleyes:
2. Tig'ing in the bung for the temp sender.
3. Waiting for the UPS man.
4. Waiting for the USPS mail lady.
5. Wiring and some other boring shit until 3 and 4 happen.

The fluid in the cooler line isn't right off the converter it's just before dumping into the pan. It's just a matter of reading the temp before or after the cooler....It's just two different schools of thought. By all rights we should all have two trans temp gages but nobody does.
What I think has probably happened whith your trans in the past is you've operated it right in the RPM range where the converter is slipping- not enough RPM to make it lock and there is much torque going through it. This is easy to do wheeling a rig with a 2:1 transfer case. In normal driving this only happens for a few seconds at a time while running through the gears which leaves plenty of time for it to cool between. While wheeling you could hold that RPM indefinately.....
IMHO any auto trans will get hot doing this. .02c.

I have a brand new extra set of the larger size poly spring bushing (1.75" ID) if you need them... I converted all mine to the smaller size (1.5" ID) and 9/16 bolts... Let me know and I can mail them out. F'ing Chevy. :shaking:

I have a brand new extra set of the larger size poly spring bushing (1.75" ID) if you need them... I converted all mine to the smaller size (1.5" ID) and 9/16 bolts... Let me know and I can mail them out. F'ing Chevy. :shaking:

Ha ha ha...Thanks Chris but I am running the 1.5's as well.

I think the "new" springs I have are from a Ford or something. One end is 1.5" ID and the other end is 1.25" ID.

When I was giving them a look over it "appeared" that they were both 1.5" and so I ordered 4 sets of bushings...:shaking:

I am working on a fix for this.

Ha ha ha...Thanks Chris but I am running the 1.5's as well.

I think the "new" springs I have are from a Ford or something. One end is 1.5" ID and the other end is 1.25" ID.

When I was giving them a look over it "appeared" that they were both 1.5" and so I ordered 4 sets of bushings...:shaking:

I am working on a fix for this.
How long of spring? Are you moving mounts??


Might have something kicking around the yard that would work.

How long of spring? Are you moving mounts??


Might have something kicking around the yard that would work.



No moving mounts...these are some of the springs that you let me have out of the back of the 1500 a couple of years ago:laughing: It shows the speed of my projects:homer:

I have already been confirmed that my fix will work....:smokin:

Machine shop is just waiting for the goods.

It shows the speed of my projects:homer:

Don't get me started on that :laughing:













:(

Don't get me started on that :laughing:













:(

You too?

So this past weekend I played dad all weekend...:smokin: I didn't touch the Scout once.

So today I got my thermocouple bung tig'ed into the pan. I just sprayed a coat of paint onto the tin to make it look less white trash. I also installed the new tranny gauge.
523524

Here is the fix for running 9/16" bolts with a 1-1/4" ID bushing and saving time from having to source something that I don't think exists. The machinist that turned the four bushings looked at me kind of funny when I asked him to do this.
523525

I noticed that the tranny face of the old Dana 20 adapter has a clock to it. I am HOPING that the tranny/motor doesn't have a clock to it. For the new adapter that I am running doesn't have any built in rotation.
523526

I picked up this box of angle tabs from a yard sale this weekend. I am going to use the piss out of these this weekend.
523527

I am "assuming" that the small diameter bushing end of the spring is the rear...right? So the end with the double wraps...right?
523528

JB Conversions kind of pissed me off and is putting me in a bind. I ordered their rotation plate kit minus the input shaft (which I bought previously) last Monday the 19th. I told him that it is kind of a rush and asked when it would be shipped out. He (John) told me that it would ship Tuesday morning the 11th.

Well I get a tracking number this past Sunday the 16th saying that it would be arriving on the 24th :mad3:. Add to that his unwillingness to ship the shit in a flat rate box (faster and cheaper than UPS & with confirmation number)and I am probably not going to ever recommend them nor buy from them again.:shaking:

I am not too much of a vent/whiney bitch...but fuck.

More will be done tomorrow night.

So rear suspension is "bolted" back together. New shit is in. I am a little worried about ride height but will address that after I set the pinion angle and such.

I am going to be outboarding the shocks I think...and am looking at about a 5*-10* kick back...what do you think?

523739

I am setting up my Hydro Assist. It is a Rockstomper kit and I am trying to figure out the best layout for the thing. I think I will be mounting it to the tube and not the spring perch...

523740

The mounts for the thing have thrown me for a loop and I will go into that later.

523741

This thing is different than my Dana 20. I am going to tear into doing some shift rod modifications tonight on this dirty pig. I am also going to strip it down and start laying out the twin stick.

523742

...I am setting up my Hydro Assist. It is a Rockstomper kit and I am trying to figure out the best layout for the thing. I think I will be mounting it to the tube and not the spring perch...
I think that's a good choice.
This thing is different than my Dana 20. I am going to tear into doing some shift rod modifications tonight on this dirty pig. I am also going to strip it down and start laying out the twin stick.
It is a bit different. If you've never torn a 300 apart before, it does come apart a bit different than the 20 and the PITA factor is slightly higher on the 300 than the 20, but it's nothing you can't handle with a good pair of blue gloves.

:beer: It's good to see more progress on the HoS PoS. :grinpimp:

Are you going to build the shock mounts or run F-250 shock mounts (Cheap/free and easy to find)?

I have to get my shocks sorted out too...I'm using F-250 front shock mounts for thr front, and I think I'll get a set for the rear, too.

The angle looks good on the "MS paint shock" how far does your rear axle move as the spring compresses and the shackle swings back? Tack it in and cycle the suspension a few times (full bump/droop) and make sure nothing hits before you burn it in for good.

:D

HOS, Definitly outboard the shocks if you have room. My shocks lean back @ 6* and havnt had any problem.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/P5110034.jpg

Try this style ram mount, works great. Keeps the ram a little further away from the pumpkin.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PB010014.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PC200003.jpg

Thanks for the pics man. I really appreciate the feedback and opinion.

I was laying out the ram travel path last night and I was a little worried about the clearance to the top of the diff. It will clear, but won't allow for a long tie-rod bracket like I want to make. Your approach should help that...

I am thinking that a 5-10* kick back will be the ticket for the rear shocks.

What rear axle are you running?


.

Chevy 60 frt, 14 bolt FF rear

:D

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PB010014.jpg



254 I like how you built a brace so all the force is not on the U-bolts:smokin:

With the shocks out boarded you need more travel. I'm running 99-04 F350 rear shocks 31" extended and 18.25 compressed 13" travelNapa part number NS 911196 ("http://www.napaonline.com/)and had to mount the axle tab on the side of the axle to fit them in there. But I think you have room.

Here is the fix for running 9/16" bolts with a 1-1/4" ID bushing and saving time from having to source something that I don't think exists. The machinist that turned the four bushings looked at me kind of funny when I asked him to do this.
523525



Those are the small YJ bushings.

http://www.wfoconcepts.com/Uploads/ProductImages/daymo2221b%20300x225.jpg
http://www.wfoconcepts.com/cr/Bushings-and-Sleeves/3190
http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/YJ-Small-Bushing-1.25-OD-3-4-ID/3190/3485
http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/3-4-Bushing-Sleeve-9-16-Bolt/3190/3500


These guys have all that stuff and more.

Contact Dan at Ruff Stuff he can beat those prices (on the bushings).

Plus his customer service & delivery times are top notch.

I like Dan's steel parts, but what type of bushings does he carry? These are the nice Daystar bushing. I pulled the shitty one's that came in a Rubicon express kit and put these in. I looked and its 63 cents difference per side. You could get the rolled sleeve vs the DOM save a 1.50 if your cheap :flipoff2:
If you read the post he needed 1.25 bushing :shaking:

I like Dan's steel parts, but what type of bushings does he carry? :


Dan's are black and the part number inside the bushing starts with an 'M'.... I have his bushings in all my springs/shackles and they are holding up great.

So I took today off of work.............and thought I was going to get more done...what a fool am I :shaking:

BUT the tranny is in and I did it by myself (not to my wife's approval). I couldn't see spending the 49.00 they wanted for a jack attachment at Harbor Freight. So I made one out of some aluminum scrap, some lumber, and some drywall screws:grinpimp:

524202

Precision booty fab right there bitches:

524203

So I dropped the rig on the "new" rear leaves to see what the ride height would look like. And it was a fucking lowwwww rider since they are softer than the old ones. The rear was even low when the old springs were in good shape...now it is even lower. I do like how flexy they are though....

524204

So if I jack up the rear 2+ inches it seems to level things out pretty nicely and actually dips the hood down like it should. This will make my visual approach angle much nicer than before.

BUT

It means that I would need to add a lift block...and possibly an add-a-leaf once the fuel cell+rear seat frame+junk+passengers is in the rear.

Since I am adding an anti-wrap bar...should I even worry about the 2-1/5" lift block being there?


.

If it's mush then put in a full length add-a-leaf. You could even make your own if you have main leaves you don't mind cutting the eyes off of. Then set it back down and decide how much block you'll need.

I couldn't see spending the 49.00 they wanted for a jack attachment at Harbor Freight.

I have one you could have just come and got it......

If it's mush then put in a full length add-a-leaf. You could even make your own if you have main leaves you don't mind cutting the eyes off of. Then set it back down and decide how much block you'll need.
I got a bunch of misc spring shit at the house thats going in the next scrap run (that I'm loading now). Come do some shopping.

Even have a couple add-a-leafs, but I don't know if any of them are 2.5" wide.

The deadline on some of these first items is Memorial Day weekend. Or even better yet, a couple of weeks before...to shake it down:homer:.

.

So how did it do this last weekend?

So how did it do this last weekend?

I'm thinkin' it's still on jackstands:laughing:


So I took today off of work.............and thought I was going to get more done...what a fool am I :shaking:

BUT the tranny is in and I did it by myself (not to my wife's approval). I couldn't see spending the 49.00 they wanted for a jack attachment at Harbor Freight. So I made one out of some aluminum scrap, some lumber, and some drywall screws:grinpimp:

Precision booty fab right there bitches:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=524203&d=1274484843




I did almost the exact same thing about 10 years ago..:eek: 'cept I didn't have no fancy al-u-min-e-um, just a 2x4, drywall screws, and a ATV tie-down. :laughing: SM465/205 combo. I'm lucky it didn't fall off the jack and crush me. That's the day I started using 2 ratchet straps strung across the frame rails under the transmission to help raise it and keep it from falling on my head/neck/chest region. Makes it easy to shimmy into place for the final adjustments, too. :beer:

So how did it do this last weekend?

I'm thinkin' it's still on jackstands:laughing:

What he said...^^^

I pushed very, very, very hard to get the thing done by the holiday weekend. Unfortunately I just flat ran out of time. I worked on the thing all the week of the 17th-20th of May. Then I took Friday the 21st off from work to work on it.

So after 4 straight 9 hour days of fitting, re-fitting, welding, testing, and grinding...I just ran out of time. I still had lots of small parts to source locally come Tuesday the 25th. Add to that the fact that JB Conversions fucked me and I didn't get my rotation ring till Monday the 24th...I was being youthfully optimistic. I also started to find myself saying..."ohhh I can redo this later" and rushing things, which is not how I normally do things.

The good thing is that by Tuesday afternoon...my welding skills didn't require the typical grinder clean up, my rig is close to being finished, and my wife is seeing the light in my crazyness.

The hindsight to not getting it done for this weekend is that Naches was a snow covered, drunken cluster fuck.

We still went camping as a family, and that was the best part...spending time with good friends, and telling stories.

I am hitting the rig again tomorrow and this weekend a bit. :) Photos to come

Well I am back in the garage tonight...what a fucking joke I am. Month and a half down from fucking pneumonia and then trying to get caught up on the shit that stacks up when you are sick/busy...:shaking:

I am back at the ride height issue and don't think I can run any lift blocks due to the long "anti-wrap" perches I bought. The fuckers are 8" long. So I took apart my old leaf packs and have a couple of pieces I can add in that aren't too jacked.

If I do this then I will have to cut off my clamps and I don't really want to have to do that.

But then again I am adding an anti-wrap bar. Having never have run an anti-wrap bar...do I need to worry about the leaves fanning out and not running clamps?

Torch the clamps & bend them.

That's what I just did with mine. When the pack was apart I heated up the clamp ends and bent them up. While still hot I laid it on the anvil and smack them a few times so they were nice and straight. A quick dunk it in water before the heat could travel to spring. Then drilled a hole in the very end so I could run a bolt to hold the pack together.

That's what I just did with mine. When the pack was apart I heated up the clamp ends and bent them up. While still hot I laid it on the anvil and smack them a few times so they were nice and straight. A quick dunk it in water before the heat could travel to spring. Then drilled a hole in the very end so I could run a bolt to hold the pack together.

Probably what I will do then. Or at least booty fab a version of this.

If you need some more height, but don't want to add springs, cut down some leaves the same length of the perches and bolt them on. K5 guys call them "zero-rate springs".

Or you could even leave them a little longer than the perch to add a little more anti-wrap without effecting the top springs much.


Food for though. Come raid my misc spring pile before they end up in the scrap truck :beer:

I can't get a lean out of my motor/tranny/t-case:mad3: I have the T-case all assembled and mocked in the rig and can not get a twist that I think might be built in...out. This is wreaking havoc on my mounting feet for the new T-case mount.

Pics tomorrow morning...but I have a question...

I think I am looking for some 1 to 1-1/4 inch thick polyurethane bushings. I would like them to be around 1-1/2 inch diameter. Anybody help a douche out with something close? I am hoping to buy something from Energy Suspension or the like at the local 4W$PS...

Something like this:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=537677&stc=1&d=1280125346

Or more like this with standard thread studs...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bBH5%2BMlAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I am thinking of just working with the twist as I feel it was built into the rig and shimming the high side...pics to explain tomorrow.

Those bushings in the first pic are Jeep CJ body bushings. 1" thick. I used them for motor mount bushings in the Shit Box and will be using them for my new tranny x member too. I have about 6 or 8 of them. Want a few?

Is the engine still level side to side? Maybe one of the motor mounts is collapsed creating your twist?

You know that rig has been babied it's whole life so I'm sure the chassis/ frame isn't tweaked at all.:laughing:

Those bushings in the first pic are Jeep CJ body bushings. 1" thick. I used them for motor mount bushings in the Shit Box and will be using them for my new tranny x member too. I have about 6 or 8 of them. Want a few?

Thanks Danno...With that nugget of info I will run to the shit store and try to pick up some of these today at lunch as I would like to finish this little issue tonight. I am going to be going from a "narrow" mounting foot like in the picture below, to a wider mounting stance by going directly to the feet of the new adapter.

If the shit store doesn't have any locally...then I will PM you.

Is the engine still level side to side? Maybe one of the motor mounts is collapsed creating your twist?

The engine is not level side to side...BUT I am not sure if it ever was. If you look at the design of the Dana 20 bull gear and adapter from the Jeep design...it has a built in twist or rotation. The mounting foot and spacer are level, whereas the transmission pattern is clocked exactly to the degree my twist is.

539895

The new adapter feet and transmission pattern are perfectly perpendicular to each other. (the photo is a little warped but it is level)

539896

The motor mounts are NOT level in their seating...The passenger mount is dove/driven into the saddle and the driver side is about 1/4" higher in its saddle/cradle. I tried to loosen the mounts last night and feably twist the motor...but I am weak. I ended up having another beer.

539898

I am going to be using the bushings regardless like in the photo I copied from R290's thread. If I can't defeat the twist tonight...I am just going to shim the high side and say fuck it...and run it. In the photo below I slid a 1-1/2" tube under the low side while trying to clamp down the high side...it just shows the twist.

539897

I would LOVE to make it level and perfect as I am anal like that...I am just not sure how I can get it. I will loosen up the mounts and everything up front and jack the shit out of it and see if I can make the bitch dance for me.

You know that rig has been babied it's whole life so I'm sure the chassis/ frame isn't tweaked at all.:laughing:

Oooohhh Rick...I know, I know. It should be in great shape once I finish this round of polishing...

Try and get things back in order here...

So I started with this dirty Dana 300:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=515890&stc=1&d=1271188405

After a couple cans of "environmentally safe" engine cleaner, a stack of brushes, a good sweat, and $10.00 at the car wash I ended up with this:

540777

540778

So far it hasn't started leaking on my workbench.

Got the JB Conversions Rotation Plate kit out and installed it. I had already installed the input with no seal so that I could at least slide it on the newly installed TH400 output shaft for mocking up.

So I pulled it and the stock bearing retainer assembly off again:

540780

If you have done this before then please ignore my new-ness at the Dana 300 tech.
From the left you will remove the retaining ring, and then slide off the drive gear. After this just you just tap out the input shaft.

540781

Next you just fight with the large internal snap ring and take it out. A small drift punch will take the bearing out.

540782

Next just slide the bearing into the JB Conversions Rotation Plate. Then follow it with the snap ring that you took out of the stock bearing retainer. Tap the assembly onto the 32 spline input shaft...include any shims that might have been between it and the bearing (mine had none). Slide on the drive gear and finish the assembly with the snap ring.

540783

The last thing to do is to press in the new input shaft seal. After that you can locate the unit on the Dana 300.

those rubber bushings look like the 50's chevy motor mounts also. I havent bought any for many years, but they used to be about a buck a piece.

those rubber bushings look like the 50's chevy motor mounts also. I havent bought any for many years, but they used to be about a buck a piece.


Looks like they doubled in price. Did not call the local Jeep store to see if they sold them individually, but suspect they do.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ENS-2-4101G/

HOS nice job of the 300:smokin:

napa sells them per each.

I am trying to get my rear shift rail loose of the t-case and have loosened the shift fork set screw. I have NOT rmoved the plug from the top of the shift rail housing because I don't know how I will seal it back up.

Do I need to remove that plug/cap in order for the rail to be yanked free of the detents?

I am trying to do the easy method of grinding without having to break apart the case...

If I remember right you do have to remove em. .. so I would probably just pull the shift rail seal/thimbles and replace em

http://www.crownautomotive.net/product/Dana-Model-300-Transfer-Case/J0934281.html

If I recall correctly, the rails do not come out without taking the whole shifter assembly out of the case.

Been a while since I did my 300 twin-stick... I can't remember if I even removed the "pills". IIRC it was front-2wd-HI I lost... and I've only missed it once, and even then it wasn't a big deal.

Unless there is grinding for something else you need.

Man... it's been too long. I just can't remember all the little details now.

I did not pull the rail on my D300 when I added the twin sticks. Heck I didn't take anything apart on it. I used a dremel to grind the little notch for the sticks and away I went.

Man... it's been too long. I just can't remember all the little details now.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71190&highlight=d300

I'm of no use, but Mech did note there is a sweet spot to get the rail out.

I got it last night. My 12 year old and I found out how to get it out...and I'll edit this post later with some details.

I now have a fully selectable Dana 300 with pills still intact!