Looking at buying an inexpensive(cheap) plasma cutter. I have read the review on the ebay plasma. I also like the Longevity ForceCut LP-40D Pilot Arc. Anyone have any input on the Longevity cutter? Or your preference and why? Thanks!

Also watch for major brand used plasmas on Craigslist and Ebay. A good used Hypertherm Powermax unit can usually be had for similar prices to the new imports, wth much better performance in terms fo thickness, cut quality and especially consumable life. On top of that parts are available, and will be for a long time. Free tech service support, and downloadable operators and service manuals from the www.hypertherm.com site are free as well. To compare with the cutting power of a 40D, look for Hypertherm Powermax380, Powermax30 (120 or 240 volt) or the more powerful Powermax600, 800, 900, or 1000 (240 volt only)

Jim Colt

I just got finished putting another 90 minutes on my Longevity. I'm still on the same nozzle/tip/electrode it came with.

I like that I got a new machine with a five-year warranty from a company that is fairly high profile here on the board and they probably know who Charlie Wenzel is-that makes up for their not being within neck-wringing distance.

I have to say I love my longevity lp 50d it's been cutting great. It's done 3/16 and 1/4" so far with no problem. Still on my first tip

I just cut a 4 x 8 sheet full of small parts, brackets, gussets etc, all with multiple bolt holes, out of 3/8" steel with my Hypertherm Powermax45 on my PlasmaCam table. No problem piercing. I have not changed the nozzle (Powermax units do not use a "tip") in a few weeks....I know I did a bunch of 3/16" stainless, and I made some new table slats out of 14 gauge a couple of weeks ago with the same nozzle. No dross, nice square edges, 31 inches per minute cut speed on 3/8" steel.

When I was done cutting the 3/8" I unplugged the machine torch (no tools required) and plugged in the hand torch to cut some 2" square, 1/4" wall tubing to length. Nice!

Jim

Just sold my thermodynamics 29 amp unit and picked up a Giantech 50 amp plasma and it seems to work just fine. I went with Gianttech as I could contact somebody in the states if I had a problem ( Like others mentioned here). I got a combo machine for $599 shipped off of ebay and it seems to do the job just fine.

I hope this thread doesnt dive into another pissing contest about China plasma cutters like all the others. This China unit seems to work as good as the domestic one I just sold. I actually sold it for the same price that I paid for the new one and got an extra 20 amps to cut with.

What made up my mind was the 4 or 5 local people that bought ones a few years ago and used the shit out of them. They still are using them.

No need for a pissing contest! I just thought I'd give my American made, not cheap, Powermax45 some equal time! It's 45 Amps output will out cut most other 60 Amp units in terms of speed, thickness, cut quality and consumable life. But you have to pay a bit more for one of these....nice thing is, Hypertherm did not lay off a single worker throughthe downturn so I think my money is well spent!

I think the low cost units certainly fit a market niche that a lot of the US manufacturers are not interested in providing product for. There is a need for all price classes of equipment...however there are performance and reliability differences between the two different price levels of machine, I know from lab testing of many of the imports side by side under identical conditions with major brand (read more expensive) plasma systems.

Now if I could only get my Powermax45 to tig and stick........

Jim

I have seen the chinese unit before it was imported in great numbers. I think it has come a long way but still wont compare to the domestic mfgs. If and when it does it may be in the same price range. 50Amps will cut your 5/8" material with the right consumables (Not sure on the consumable side of these imports but the last time I had one in hand they looked like they had a ways to go before they were close to the ame efficiency as the local brands). If you get a chance check out the Powermax 45 unit and its consumables. The spiral cut consumable really helps that unit cut well and the bonus is that when used right they last a long....long time. Alot of people shop based on price and that is important and you cant blame anyone. The consumables will be the on the other side of price. We originally shopped around and found Thermal Dynamics consumables to be the cheapest years ago (maybe 6) and Miller to be the highest. Now I think Hypertherm has the longest lasting cheapest consumables of the domestic brand. I say this because beyond the initial price the unit may need to be serviced and you will always go through consumables so pick one that is long lasting and that will have parts available. Not saying anything against the chinese brands but that is a volatile market.

Its like that door to door organic orange cleaner they push on you all the time. It just never stops.

Yes the chinese ones are like that

Yes I am being sarcastic. I think its great the chinese ones are working out for some. They dont work out for everyone. We dont sell any plasma cutters (just an FYI) I have some experience with different brands and definately have my favorites.

Spam is Spam

Spam is Spam

With all due respect the original poster was asking which one and why. If you dont want to hear that people like the powermax 45 or the cutmaster thermaldyne units then why are you reacting in this thread? Is it spam for me to give my personal experience with these units? Or Jim colt's?


I keep forgetting about this tuesday thing :laughing:

Looking at buying an inexpensive(cheap) plasma cutter. I have read the review on the ebay plasma. I also like the Longevity ForceCut LP-40D Pilot Arc. Anyone have any input on the Longevity cutter? Or your preference and why? Thanks!

With all due respect the original poster was asking which one and why. If you dont want to hear that people like the powermax 45 or the cutmaster thermaldyne units then why are you reacting in this thread? Is it spam for me to give my personal experience with these units? Or Jim colt's?

I keep forgetting about this tuesday thing :laughing:

Looks like he's looking at input on an inexpensive (cheap) plasma cutter. If the Powermax 45 was inexpensive, I would have bought one. It's not.

Don't see Porche posting about their stuff on the Geo forum.

Spam.

Just sold my thermodynamics 29 amp unit and picked up a Giantech 50 amp plasma and it seems to work just fine. I went with Gianttech as I could contact somebody in the states if I had a problem ( Like others mentioned here). I got a combo machine for $599 shipped off of ebay and it seems to do the job just fine.

I hope this thread doesnt dive into another pissing contest about China plasma cutters like all the others. This China unit seems to work as good as the domestic one I just sold. I actually sold it for the same price that I paid for the new one and got an extra 20 amps to cut with.

What made up my mind was the 4 or 5 local people that bought ones a few years ago and used the shit out of them. They still are using them.


Where did you get yours and what thickness does it cut?Looking at getting a plasma and do not want to pay the high prices for the American units..My damn cheap Kobalt tools work as good as my buddy's Snap on Wrenches.

I got it off of ebay and its rated at 3/4". I dont know if it will do that but I dont see why not. I do know that it rips through 1/4" like butter and the cut looks good.

I just looked and it looks like they are selling off thier old 40 amp models. Might be a cheap pickup.

The chinese 40 amp units cut 3/16 really well, 1/4 inch is kind of slow.

60 amp chinese cuts like a mofo, 1/2 in no problem.

I have a 40 and a 60 and would recomend the 60 if you want to do much 1/4 in or thicker. the 60 ampers dont cost much more.

edit again: either of them - run them on 220 volts, dont mess with 110 it is hard on the machine and you give up a lot of performance.

do we really need another cheap plasma thread? i think theres at least 2 just this month.

This is the shop and tools forum. And I guess comparing a Porsche with a Geo is kind of on similar lines!

The low cost imports are perfectly fine for what they can do. However if I was a betting man, and I had to pick one to get the job done and I could use either ones (Porsche/Geo) import/Major brand plasma, I'm pretty sure I know which I would choose.

If it was just how much it costs and that was my only limitation...then I'd be forced to go with the import as well.

If anyone is interested in a comparison, I'm up for buying (as long as my wife doesn't find out!) a lowcost import plasma and comparing it with a hand torch to a Powermax45, after the test (if I don't decide to keep the import and sell my Powermax45) I could maybe put it on ebay and sell it!

We could develop a series of tests that would help us determine speed capability on different thicknesses, pierce capability, cut edge angularity, maybe duty cycle, cut quality,consumable life, etc. I would offer for anyone else to come to my home shop (in NH) to verify the results I get to ensure that I'm not bending the facts. Which import system would be comparable....maybe a 50 amp unit?

A new thread would likely be in order!

Jim




Looks like he's looking at input on an inexpensive (cheap) plasma cutter. If the Powermax 45 was inexpensive, I would have bought one. It's not.

Don't see Porche posting about their stuff on the Geo forum.

Spam.

I got it off of ebay and its rated at 3/4". I dont know if it will do that but I dont see why not. I do know that it rips through 1/4" like butter and the cut looks good.

I just looked and it looks like they are selling off thier old 40 amp models. Might be a cheap pickup.

Yep just got outbid on one them..hope it was someone here I ran it up to $335 on them..lmao



This is the shop and tools forum. And I guess comparing a Porsche with a Geo is kind of on similar lines!

The low cost imports are perfectly fine for what they can do. However if I was a betting man, and I had to pick one to get the job done and I could use either ones (Porsche/Geo) import/Major brand plasma, I'm pretty sure I know which I would choose.

If it was just how much it costs and that was my only limitation...then I'd be forced to go with the import as well.

If anyone is interested in a comparison, I'm up for buying (as long as my wife doesn't find out!) a lowcost import plasma and comparing it with a hand torch to a Powermax45, after the test (if I don't decide to keep the import and sell my Powermax45) I could maybe put it on ebay and sell it!

We could develop a series of tests that would help us determine speed capability on different thicknesses, pierce capability, cut edge angularity, maybe duty cycle, cut quality,consumable life, etc. I would offer for anyone else to come to my home shop (in NH) to verify the results I get to ensure that I'm not bending the facts. Which import system would be comparable....maybe a 50 amp unit?

A new thread would likely be in order!

Jim
Nothing agianst you Jim but we had 2 Hypertherms at my old job..and I was not impressed with them one bit.There was constanly something wrong with them.If I was buying a name brand it would be a Miller.

Edit added:I am sure your 45 will most likely beat out there 50.I would assume it would be more compareable to there 60.Most Chinese stuff is slightly under rated.If I buy oe that says it cuts 1/2" and will sever 3/4".I will assume it will cut 3/8" nice and cut 1/2" decent.Where if I spend the money for your product I will expect it to do exactly what it says and no less.Just because it is American and cost 5 to 8 times the price.

If you go to a roadside Cafe and you get a steak dinner for $6 Do you expect it to taste the same as a $25 steak dinner at a nice place?No you do not but it will be edible most likely and you will have gotten what you expected and not complain.Also what country were your computer chips made in that are inside your machine?

Some components on the boards are from India, China, Taiwan, USA, and other places. They simply are not all available from US manufacturers! All of the components meet our specs (internal testing in Hanover NH, USA), and all boards are assembled in our facilities, as well as all of the rest of the system components....by employee owners of Hypertherm. Be happy to provide a plant tour next time anyone is in NH!

The equivalent Hypertherm system for most 40 amp imports is approximately twice, in some cases 3 times the price...not 5 to 8 times! If the system is used moderately...over time the Hypertherm system will prove to be less expensive (better cut quality, faster speeds, higher reliability, longer consumable life) through lower "cost of ownership". This means nothing if you cannot afford to buy the system in the first place (capital equipment cost)....therefore that determines the market for units manufactured inexpensively (low cost labor, low cost or non existent engineering) and imported into the U.S..

I said there is a good market for the low cost imports....not knocking them, simply stating there is a difference in performance...maybe similar to the car analogy of a Porsche to a Geo!

No need to get defensive....I like the concept of low cost tools....I have purchased quite a few from Harbor Freight....some worked out well, some did not.

Jim

Some components on the boards are from India, China, Taiwan, USA, and other places. They simply are not all available from US manufacturers! All of the components meet our specs (internal testing in Hanover NH, USA), and all boards are assembled in our facilities, as well as all of the rest of the system components....by employee owners of Hypertherm. Be happy to provide a plant tour next time anyone is in NH!

The equivalent Hypertherm system for most 40 amp imports is approximately twice, in some cases 3 times the price...not 5 to 8 times! If the system is used moderately...over time the Hypertherm system will prove to be less expensive (better cut quality, faster speeds, higher reliability, longer consumable life) through lower "cost of ownership". This means nothing if you cannot afford to buy the system in the first place (capital equipment cost)....therefore that determines the market for units manufactured inexpensively (low cost labor, low cost or non existent engineering) and imported into the U.S..

I said there is a good market for the low cost imports....not knocking them, simply stating there is a difference in performance...maybe similar to the car analogy of a Porsche to a Geo!

No need to get defensive....I like the concept of low cost tools....I have purchased quite a few from Harbor Freight....some worked out well, some did not.

Jim

It is all good Jim...not defensive just rather abrasive..:flipoff2:

Jim is used to the top tier plasma cutters. Alot of people cant tell the difference between the best and whats going to work for them and plasma cutters arent in every garage. Look at this video from Giant tech. Video looks GREAT! Cant argue with this.


YouTube - GiantTech Cut40D plasma cutter cutting duct work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC6Q67ZLvgA)


Its a shame that Giant and Longevity arent more active on the forums. They could probly share alot of insight.

MC,

I was with Hypertherm when we introduced our first hand plasma system in about 1985 or so (Max40). Hypertherm is a strong engineering company, and we have always looked at all products related to plasma cutting, meaning that virtually any competitive hand system is purchased as soon as it is available, brought into our benchmarking labs, and subjected to a battery of tests.

Hypertherm engineers in some cases know more about the duty cycle, the maximum thickness, cut speed and consumable life capabilitiries of virtually all competitive plasma systems than the companies that sell them! The data developed from benchmark testing is not used for advertising to knock any competitors capability, rather it is used to ensure that our plasma systems, from a performance point of view, are second to none. We do find competitive products that, in some categories, may have a leg up on our products...but I assure you that does not last long! I have had the opportunities over the years to put almost every competive torch in my hand for test cutting. They all cut metal, but each plasma has its distinctive capabilities.

The big differences that we have found over the years with hand plasma systems:

1. Duty cycle. Different manufacturers use different criteria to rate the ability of their systems performance under load. At Hypertherm we test all systems using the same criteria that we advertise our systems at. It is very interesting to see the different results from different manufacturers power supplies after they have exceeded their duty cycles!
2. Torch design, cut performance. Many of the low cost imports use plasma torch designs that are copies of someones else's design....most often the 30 year old Esab PT31 style torch. Recently some of the imports started using torches of a newer design, but still over 15 year old technology. When new Hypertherm plasma systems are introduced, a new torch is developed using all of the latest technology. Hypertherm has 85 engineers, 15 with pHD's, developing new technology. They do not keep using older torch designs if there is a way to improve cut quality, consumable life, or reliability.

3. Safety. Plasma has open circuit voltages that can exceed 300 volts DC, and the high frequency start units have a starting voltage in the 15,000 volt AC range. Many of the imports have no safety features, and have exposed terminals with high voltage on the front of the power supplies! Enough said on that.

4. Reliability. Hypertherm subjects every system it designs to a high stress reliability lab. There are machines in the lab that the technicians use to "shake and bake" power supplies while they are operating at full duty cycle, machines that subject the power supplies and torches to rapid changes in temp, changes in humidity (even rain) and high levels of conductive shop dust. When systems fail in the reliability lab they are then disected by engineers to find the root cause of the failure, redesigned, and placed back in the lab. I have seen some new systems that have spent 16 months in the lab before they are deemed reliable enough to release as a new product. Very cool test processes!

Anyway, my point after this lengthy post....there are a lot of differences in the designs and performance of different plasma systems. I have had the opportunity for 32 years to see a lot of the differences in design and technology first hand! None of the above testing comes cheap, and building plasma systems in a US plant with US workers has a cost effect as well.

The offer is open...if anyone wants a tour of the Hypertherm facility in New Hampshire, contact me and I will personally show you most of the things listed above, as well as the assembly and testing (each system cuts before they are packaged for shipping) of all of our plasma systems in our main plant.

Jim Colt

Last year, according to my accountant, my shop grossed $88K.

Spending more than $500 for a tool that will get used on one or two jobs can be justified. Spending much more than that and I'm now into an asset that can't be depreciated in the first year so in effect, I'm paying income tax on that tool I just bought.

I don't even onw the MIG welder I use as buying a real one is right at the point where I can justify spending the $. When m friend who owns the welder I have comes to take it back (it does belong to him after all), I'm going to have an unpleasant decision to make.

It is these sorts of financial analyses that those who stand back and say to buy American just don't seem to understand. Also, if I'm putting out my company's money, I'd damned well better be getting a warranty (no used stuff for big ticket expenditures) as I'm gonna need it fixed and back running as it's $ sitting in the corner that can't be gotten back out to pay the mortgage or grocery bill.

No, I didn't pay any income tax last year! Gotta love accountant reindeer games, so much more fun than lawyer reindeer games.

I actually do a bit of paid work in my home shop, and generally 100% of the money it takes in goes toward buying tools and upgrading the shop. I am fortunate that I do not rely on my fab shop to earn a living! I did spend a big chunk of change a few years ago for plasma and cnc machine, and I focused (with the strong urging from my accountant wife) on using the machine to pay for itself by working it nights and weekends. I can honestly say the $15k I invested in the machine paid for itself in less than 12 months, doing part time work. Since that time, it has bought me a new mig, lots of steel stock (hopefully I bought when the prices were at the lowest!) as well as many other necessary shop tools to support my hobby. And yes, there are a few low cost imported Harbor Freight style tools that I bought for one time jobs. In many cases they worked out well....some cases they didn't (I have a funny story about a harbor freight hammer drill...it got the job done that I bought it for then it self destructed throwing smoke and shrapnel).

The mig and the plasma will be in my man cave after I retire. Many of the lesser tools likely will not still be working!

Jim

Jim is used to the top tier plasma cutters. Alot of people cant tell the difference between the best and whats going to work for them and plasma cutters arent in every garage. Look at this video from Giant tech. Video looks GREAT! Cant argue with this.


YouTube - GiantTech Cut40D plasma cutter cutting duct work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC6Q67ZLvgA)


Its a shame that Giant and Longevity arent more active on the forums. They could probly share alot of insight.
thats sheet metal. any cutter should cut it that fast.

OK....heres a link to some videos of hand and machine cutting with Hypertherm torches. Check out the little Powermax45 cutting 12mm (just under 1/2") steel with a hand torch. Notice the torch is resting on the plate, and that a conductive pece of steel is used as a guide....most plasma systems above 30 amps have a hard time drag cutting, the 45 can drag cut all day with no effect on the nozzle.
http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Training_and_Education/Videos/index.jsp#powermax

Jim

OK....heres a link to some videos of hand and machine cutting with Hypertherm torches. Check out the little Powermax45 cutting 12mm (just under 1/2") steel with a hand torch. Notice the torch is resting on the plate, and that a conductive pece of steel is used as a guide....most plasma systems above 30 amps have a hard time drag cutting, the 45 can drag cut all day with no effect on the nozzle.
http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Training_and_Education/Videos/index.jsp#powermax

Jim
not always true. the lincoln pro cut 80 we have at work dosnt want to touch the piece at all. it is rated up to 1 1/16 steel but i wouldnt cut more than 3/4, any thing over that use a torch.

thats sheet metal. any cutter should cut it that fast.

Should is a good word. When these chinese units first came out you were lucky to get an arc. :laughing: