Tried a little experiment this weekend....I replaced my rear mls with long ass shackles. The shackles are 7 3/8 center to center. It is a huge improvement. The flex is as good or better, and the ride is is awesome. On fireroads, the rear of the zuk used to bounce around and stutter over washboard, now its all about 5th gear and butter smooth. On rocks the ride was a little harsh and jarring, now its extremely plush. It does lean more around fast corners though. Seriouslt though this is about one of the best mods I've made....it cost $4.85 in steel.

I noticed the same thing, although I went with a stiffer spring pack this time around so I don't get as much droop as before. I also noticed my rig climbs better, but part of that is the traction bar.

Yip Ml's suck the big bone.................IMOP of coarse:D

Originally posted by scwafish
Tried a little experiment this weekend....I replaced my rear mls with long ass shackles. The shackles are 7 3/8 center to center. It is a huge improvement. The flex is as good or better, and the ride is is awesome. On fireroads, the rear of the zuk used to bounce around and stutter over washboard, now its all about 5th gear and butter smooth. On rocks the ride was a little harsh and jarring, now its extremely plush. It does lean more around fast corners though. Seriouslt though this is about one of the best mods I've made....it cost $4.85 in steel.

I agree.....when I got my CSC YJ Suspension, I thought they were going to give me the same set-up as Fred had on his Zuk.....but instead it came with short shackles....it drooped too much in the rear....so I thought a missing link would be a good cure for that....

try going down Lion's Back with missing links....sucks

so now we have our kit made with longer shackles like Fred's....and they work better.....but on a side note....he claimed this suspension should have Rancho 9000's all around..that would stiffen it up when you wanted too.....

Ive been running long shackles for a while now.....the only thing that a double shackle did for me was S my springs!

This is the same size as yours!

...looking forward to the day I can go w/ coils up front.

OKCrawler, are you listening? ;)

I always thought M/L's were junk. I ran mine for about 3 months. I welded mine up.:shaking:

I've ran mine since July on the rear w/ cj front pack on a daily driver.
It's a whole lot better than the stock, which isn't saying much.
I tightened up the side to side slop with washers, and run stiff shocks.

I like the droop without a big increase in ride height, won't put them on the front because I've heard too many people moan about hill climbs.

Spring wrap is becoming more noticeable, and steep downhills are scary when you feel the shackle unload.

Overall pleased with them, but spring life will probably be the reason I remove them.

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER
...looking forward to the day I can go w/ coils up front.

OKCrawler, are you listening? ;)

A little slow, but I'm still here.. :p
So what's keepin' ya. Don't tell me that Klune is in the way now.. :)

Yea, I experimented with the drop shackle stuff a few years ago.... They look good, but just more poseur stuff IMO...

I have never had the slighest bit of quirky behaviour out of my front TT missing links...except on road handling possibly, but I'm not concerned with that. I say possibly, bec I never bothered to isolate it.

Anyway, I think it might be helpful for everyone to describe exactly what ML setup they have/had. All ML's are not created equal just like any other component out there.

I was running TT missing links. They are nicely made, but the ride and flex was not impressive.

wondering what the down side (dont think there is ) of this mod is ,you said its a little looser on the road ,I wonder about load capacity.:confused: ...............:D

I know nothing about rear ML's but the TT fronts I have I really like. I have never had a problem whatsoever with them.

Bobaki-Its what go fast guys would describe as looser, but there is actually less "slop" in the overall feel of steering inputs etc. The car leans more, it feels like the same springs act as though they have a much softer rate, it must be a leverage thing...I don't have any idea how it would affect load capacity. Where's that geeky engineer when we need him?

IMO there are two types of missing links, one has a pivot (aka revolver) the rest are basically two shackles tied together with some sort of over-center protection. I never saw a need to run missing links up front. A longer shackle can travel as far and will have less slop than a missing link (although you give up approach angle), it will also not unload on steep climbs. I ran missing links in the back for several years. As you can see below it provided lots of droop. The main reason most people run them is to get a longer spring on the rig without having to move the shackle/spring hangers (although I have seen people run them with stock length springs, talk about ugly shackle angles). The angle on the second shackle usually isn't optimum (near vertical) on most of the rigs I have seen and I believe this is what gives the harsher ride.

On the other hand I wouldn't get too wild with the long shackles. Mine were 6 or 7" hole to hole and that was enough leverage to tear the rear shackle hangers off. If I did it again I would brace the long shackles, the ones I run now are around 5" hole to hole, braced in the center. This current setup smokes my old one when it comes to hauling A$$ down washboard roads. 4th gear, pedal to the floor, caddilac smooth.

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/2-02lmorningstar/Dscn0118.jpg

I braced the shackles I made too. I was worried a little about lateral leverage and my shackle mounts getting tweaked off of the frame...I'll keep an eye on them.

What the heck kind of rear springs are those? Thats some serious droop!

Originally posted by okcrawler


A little slow, but I'm still here.. :p
So what's keepin' ya. Don't tell me that Klune is in the way now.. :)

Yea, I experimented with the drop shackle stuff a few years ago.... They look good, but just more poseur stuff IMO...

I tossed away a set of TT m/l, I hated them....I couldn't turn right if the right side tire dropped in a hole....even a pan-hard bar wouldn't help....so anyway........ my son picked them out of the junk and put them on his Zuk.....they caused him to bend several sets of front springs trying to follow my s/r YJ suspension....

I told him, he was going to have to start buying his own springs if he didn't take those m/l's off.....can't teach these kids anything....LOL

Originally posted by scwafish

What the heck kind of rear springs are those? Thats some serious droop!

Plain old 5 leaf YJ's.

hey rude,,,in that pic you posted ,,are you using the stock spring mount in the rear? if so dont you have a problem with the spring mount being smaller than the yj spring and the shackle looking all weird and tappered?

Originally posted by 4x4man
hey rude,,,in that pic you posted ,,are you using the stock spring mount in the rear? if so dont you have a problem with the spring mount being smaller than the yj spring and the shackle looking all weird and tappered?

I know some people use 1/4" spacers/plate to bring it back to 2" bushing. I think Brent's kits do this.

I was running MLs front and back. I built them, but made them like GWs (.. you know.. since he did them first... whatever...). I liked them until I got buried in the Sluice in June. Climbing up the third rock or so, My left front wheel decided to compress back instead of crawl up.. so, it collapsed my springs and pushed my shackle toward the rear of the Zuk. Not just 1/2 of the shackle (which had happened before and I swapped new springs and retrofitted to eliminate from reoccurring)... but both fawking pieces flipped backward at the frame mounts- a true shackle reversal. The missing link set-up was fine.. it just flipped 180 degrees and I had a 90 degree bend in my leaf springs behind the axle and about 10" less of wheelbase (imagine the frustration of trying to drive out with my winch holding my axle toward the front of the rig while I drove in 2wd and every rock I hit pushed the front housing right under my tranny).

So, at 3 am, I had springs that looked like capital "Ls" and steering that looked like.. well.. not too great.. a driveshaft that fulcrumed into the pinion.. which, of course, greneded my shaft. Something gave way in the LockiRite and it gave out, too. My carrier can (adapter can to run Kick 5.12 in a Zuk carrier) somehow tore and found itself wedged between my r&p (which I found out at home.. how this happened is an extreme mystery to me).

I attribute this disaster wholly to my ml system, minus the diff can... I still ahv eno fawking idea how that happened. It literally defied physics' laws.

So, I threw the ML from the front at a neighborhood cat. I am now running a S/R setup with 5-pack YJ springs up front and have never been happier. I also switched to 44s and eliminated that can thing in my diff. (Yeah, that is the only reason I went to 44s...right).

Works great. And with minmal wrenching required, maximum fun is had.

I am still running the ml on the rear. It has given me no grief as of last weekend (clean-up).... and I have had them on for 2 years. I run 1.5 lift Rancho Wrangler packs.

My .02? ML is great for an articulation ramp. Leave it there.

Tom

Originally posted by TommyJ
....My .02? ML is great for an articulation ramp. Leave it there.

Tom


Good job newbie ;)

Donkey Shane.

Originally posted by TommyJ
Donkey Shane.



PAD :p

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER



Good job newbie ;)

Pad:p :p