I'm going coils up front, not using coil-overs (too much $$$) just regular Hal 150lb or 170lbs. I've searched and seen alot of interesting setups, but I still can't come up with an answer. Actually I'm driving myself and the lady friend insane trying to decide.
What is THE BEST way to set up coils in the front? i.e. how many links, how long, what position? 3-link, 4-link, panhard or no, radius arms, wristed arms??? What is truly the best way to go?
I'm looking to achieve about 5" lift over stock, will most likely move axle forward about 3" over stock and run 36"s on my Toy axle. I want to do it right the first time.
I was thinking of using 1" 0.156wall CroMo tubing for my links (3/4" heims) , with lowers or any that will contact rocks getting sleeved with 1.125" 0.058" wall CroMoly. Main reason is they have this where I work, will that be strong enough, for the front? Thanks for the input.
Chris

Originally posted by SamuraiChris
I'm going coils up front, not using coil-overs (too much $$$) just regular Hal 150lb or 170lbs. I've searched and seen alot of interesting setups, but I still can't come up with an answer. Actually I'm driving myself and the lady friend insane trying to decide.
What is THE BEST way to set up coils in the front? i.e. how many links, how long, what position? 3-link, 4-link, panhard or no, radius arms, wristed arms??? What is truly the best way to go?

It depends on what your looking for in performence

I'm looking to achieve about 5" lift over stock, will most likely move axle forward about 3" over stock and run 36"s on my Toy axle. I want to do it right the first time.


If you've never done it before.... you won't get it just right......trust me, but truely search ALL fourms their is heaps of info and should be able to answer at least a few of your questions.

Here´s some links to some pics of my set-up, if ya wanna see.

http://200.155.1.101/publicos/goto?AID=20594

http://200.155.1.101/publicos/goto?AID=23215

http://200.155.1.101/publicos/goto?AID=25511

Very simple, but also very funcional........:)


That 1" tubing you´re thinking of using is kinda thin walled IMHO. But if you design it right, really right, you can prolly get away with it, if you´re not the type that beats the shite out of your rig on the rocks........:p

Did you fab those trailing arms? only a twin link front & rear with a panhrard bar...Hmmm......what axle did you end up using in the rear? Do you have problems with the stock leaf spring mounts holding up to those twin links? any driveshaft problems flexxing it? with those springs. how tall did your rig end up being?

Ok sorry for the ???'s, but along with everything else, I am going coils as well and have been researching, and lurking here to get info, as none of the engineers here at work will talk to me about it becouse its not a FORD :flipoff2:

Just too much info on here, it gets :confused: , I need more :beer: to keep my head clear :rasta:

Looks like a great setup for what your running down there.
:D

mark

I bought a set of Rubicon Express Extreme Duty upper and lower arms for the coil over setup that Im about to do.. How much are you really saving doing coils vs. coil overs? U have to build more brackets, buy good shocks, and coils... I figured that I would only save about 300 bucks.. not much when you consider what youre getting and the ease of setting up the coilovers.

Originally posted by Orionn
Did you fab those trailing arms? only a twin link front & rear with a panhrard bar...Hmmm......what axle did you end up using in the rear? Do you have problems with the stock leaf spring mounts holding up to those twin links? any driveshaft problems flexxing it? with those springs. how tall did your rig end up being?


I designed the entire suspension in CAD, fabbed the parts that my limited skills permit and farmed out the fabrication of the more complex stuff. The trailing arms were made by a local machine shop from my detail drawings.

Some may scoff, but both my front and rear axles are Dana 30. While they may be considered weak for rocks, I run almost exclusively in deep mud and ruts, where ground clearance is key. They´re holding up very well, so far..........

My rig was a factory coily, therefore the trailing arms are connected to the chassis using the factory mounts. In retrospect, I should have cut them off and moved them in order to make the trailing arms longer. If one day I end up going with bigger tires and reposition the axles, I´ll likely make new trailing arms and move the supports. But to your question... As far as the mounts holding up, I´ve had no problems at all.

When looking from the side view, the arc of the raining arms has its center very close to the output flanges of the t-case. Therefore, there is very little linear spline movement in the driveshafts. I had a bad vibe in the front driveline at first, but I have succeeded in making it bearable by tilting the t-case a little more to the front. I had to do quite a bit of grinding on the yokes to eliminate u-joint binding when flexed, but not enough to weaken them significantly.

Tho I never measured it, I´d say the truck ended up at around 6'-6" to the top of the since-extinct targa bar.

Originally posted by mongrel
I bought a set of Rubicon Express Extreme Duty upper and lower arms for the coil over setup that Im about to do.. How much are you really saving doing coils vs. coil overs? U have to build more brackets, buy good shocks, and coils... I figured that I would only save about 300 bucks.. not much when you consider what youre getting and the ease of setting up the coilovers.

You can buy decent shocks for $75 apiece, the coil springs are inexpensive, and brackets cheap, too. Don't forget about all that free labor, too :D You have to build a LOT more bracketry for coil-overs, clear through the fender well. And I haven't seen a cheap set of coil-overs I'd trust not to collapse within a year - so you gotta buy the rebuildable (ching) ones. Not sure how often you gotta rebuild 'em, or what that expense is. I have had several long conversations w/ guys running the best coil-over setups, and they all concur that while they are superior performing, they require maintenance (nitrogen shocks).

i'm happy with pre feild testing of my one side radius arm other permanently wristed( just alink) using rubber radius bushings at the frame and rubber ford leaf bushings at the diff. and a panhard bar.

Use: I beat the shit out of my rig everywhere, which tends to be lots of rocks

Performance: I want to score 1000 minimum on 30# RTI (not with just front, but with coil F+R) I want lots of articulation, but controlled, not useless poser flex, I want soft ride that can handle washboard roads at 60mph,

Why no coilover: For me have coils, have decent shocks, and steel for fabbing mounts is free from work, time is free too as I have to do a project for welding class

Pook, how well does your setup flex? How long are your links? most people who do the one radius idea like that put the long part on the bottom (okcrawler for instance) , why not put the long link part up high with the little radius piece going low on the axle tube?
Thanks for the input, I'm still unsure what's best though.

Originally posted by SamuraiChris
Use: I beat the shit out of my rig everywhere, which tends to be lots of rocks


:D


Originally posted by SamuraiChris

...why not put the long link part up high with the little radius piece going low on the axle tube?
Thanks for the input, I'm still unsure what's best though.


I too have wondered about this...... :)

billj your factory coil is like mine , when you fabbed new arms what bushes did you use , im considering using johhny joints in mine or similiar , although the soft rubber stockers flex ok but wear out too quick. Is that polybushes i see in the joints? im thinking they may hinder flex too much?

Originally posted by SamuraiChris


Performance: I want to score 1000 minimum on 30# RTI (not with just front, but with coil F+R) I want lots of articulation, but controlled, not useless poser flex, I want soft ride that can handle washboard roads at 60mph,




What an original wish list you have there!!...:shaking: :flipoff2:

That´s what EVERYONE wants, man. The problem is getting it all in one package. Building a rig is full of compromises and I frankly doubt that you or anyone will ever get it 100% right, especially on the first try.

I´m very happy with my rig, but it does have its flaws. I´d bet that if you could get an honest reply from most people, the response would be the same......


:)

Originally posted by willzook
billj your factory coil is like mine , when you fabbed new arms what bushes did you use , im considering using johhny joints in mine or similiar , although the soft rubber stockers flex ok but wear out too quick. Is that polybushes i see in the joints? im thinking they may hinder flex too much?

I´m using heims for the chassis connections, protected with seals and greased. Thru the ID of the heim is a bolt and sleeve arrangement with a poly core, just to absorb a little of shocks that would otherwise go to the chassis. For the axle connections, I´m using 80 mm diameter poly bushings from a Brasliian military 4x4. I tried rubber before (cheap and flexes well), but got sick of having to change the bushings every 02 months. The rubber also left the truck somewhat unstable as it broke down.......

I´ve wristed one front and one rear control arm. Actually, I made all four control arms wristable, as I wasn´t sure which side would perform best. After testing, I´m running the front with the passager side wristed and in the back, it´s the driver´s side. The wrists are pinnable, but I´ve found it unecessary, even driving "high speed", for me being 90 km/hr.......

As far as flex, my truck does around 1450 on a 20 degree ramp, more than enough for my needs........

HTH

Pook, how well does your setup flex? How long are your links? most people who do the one radius idea like that put the long part on the bottom (okcrawler for instance) , why not put the long link part up high with the little radius piece going low on the axle tube?
Thanks for the input, I'm still unsure what's best though. [/B][/QUOTE]

i went with it on short part on the topside due to clearance issues with links hiting the frame and becuase the long link part is the same on both sides. Another thing to think about is if its all tucked up high the only thing hanging low is your drivelines.This is especially critical when climbing ledges over logs etc...I like having the links lower than the driveshafts.

its flexes great, if I recall correctly my links front and rear are all 42" that way 1 link can be carried as a spare except for the 1 radius arm one.I'm working on an adapter method so I can make the spare work if needed.

I'm finally finding time to work on it again and I'll try and get up some pics

Yes, I'm a hypocrit. As we all are. Even though I"m spending bookoo dollars on my coils suspension for no apparent reason, flex is over rated. It is not necessary. That's what lockers and low gears are for. Just wheel it.

billj - thanks for the links, not sure how i missed these before, not paying attention i guess... ive added them to my ideas folder.... Some great ideas and implimentation very clean.

Q) How are you dealing with pinion adjustments? I cant see where there is any adjustment points...


-yag

Originally posted by zukipuke
billj - thanks for the links, not sure how i missed these before, not paying attention i guess... ive added them to my ideas folder.... Some great ideas and implimentation very clean.



Thanks for the compliments!!!:)


Originally posted by zukipuke


Q) How are you dealing with pinion adjustments? I cant see where there is any adjustment points...

-yag

For simplicity, I designed the pinion angles fixed from the beginning, no adjustment was provided for. I got very close to what I wanted...;)