i have 3-links front and rear. i used 2" tubing with a 1/4" wall. and i keep bending them. the arms go from the frame straight to the axle. jonny joints on both ends.

i want to redo the LCA's and put a bend in them so i can run them straight back and then drop down into the axle. i will brace the bend. but i don't know how this material will hold up.

so far i've put the LCA's though hell. just sever hammering and landing on them is what bent them.

any suggestions?

I used 1.75x.375. I've been able to put a tweak in the bar but my heim joint shanks bent before that. I needed tubing with a 1" ID, that is why I used it. Do you have any pics?

CJ

will try and get some up

Originally posted by DASWINE1
i have 3-links front and rear. i used 2" tubing with a 1/4" wall. and i keep bending them.

Thats pretty amazing. What material are you using.

I use 1.50" OD x .250 x 1" ID Type 5 tube and havent had a problem yet.

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
I used 1.75x.375. I've been able to put a tweak in the bar but my heim joint shanks bent before that. I needed tubing with a 1" ID, that is why I used it. Do you have any pics?

CJ

Hey CJ -

What heim joints did you use? Did you thread the tube or us inserts? Just wondering cause I bought some 1.75x.375 DOM a while back to use for my control arms and was thinking of using inserts, but if you're bending heim shanks........
Altho I will be running a front 60 and not those monsters you have! :D

Chuck

I used 1.50x .250 tubing on my old jeep, i think that works well. The 1.75x.375 is a bit overkill but I wanted to match the rockwells.

I used threaded inserts from avalanche, they are tapered and match the end of the tube better than some other kinds I have seen.

I revise my vote to 1.5x.250 for most people. I think the Jeep frames are 1/8, axle tubes can't be much more than .250-.375, no need to have the axle tubes bend before the control arms :P.

CJ

Iam working on mine and Iam using 1.5 x .375. My be a little over kill but cant be to safe.
good luck

Originally posted by CJ Lagos


I used threaded inserts from avalanche, they are tapered and match the end of the tube better than some other kinds I have seen.


CJ

Thanks CJ! One more ???

What size heims did you use?

Thanks,

Chuck

On my old jeep what I did was bought 3/4x3/4 heims. I used reducer bushings to get the bore to 5/8. I then used high misalignment spacers on either side for maximum misalignment.

On my new jeep I used 3/4x5/8 heims. They are stronger than the 3/4x3/4. I just made sure to build all the brackets so that the heims are neutral at ride height to allow for full suspension travel without binding the heim. These have 12-13* of misalignment.

CJ

I'm currently using 1.75 DOM .125 wall Sleeved over 1.500 DOM with .125 wall and I would like to go stronger. With a long arm setup there is a LOT of force in the middle of the arm when you come down on something. While I know you dont want to break everything but your control arms I am getting sick of building control arms every 3 months. I'm wondering if 1.75 solid 1018 steel would be worth using. It's cheap, drill and tap any size hole you want, should be stronger than anything else I've used, it's cheap....
Any input?
Dave

I just ordered some 1 3/8" OD 7/8" ID DOM w/ threaded inserts to match. Got it from spidertrax cuz avalanche wouldn't answer the phone...

I'm *pretty sure* it'll be strong enuff w/ my stock axles & such...

We'll see :D :D

Originally posted by PIG


Thats pretty amazing. What material are you using.


It's 2" OD tubing with a 1/4" wall thickness. I ordered DOM tubing. but the place was a local steel supply shop. don't know if they know what it is. so i'm not realy sure what kind of tubing i have.

the parts that i'm bending are my LCA's each one is 4ft long. and i drag them over all kind of stuff. but when they get hit with a big impact they bend. only bent the rear 2 so far and it's not that bad. one nice thing about the material is that it doesn't kink. and i could straighten them but i'm tired of them hanging me up. so back to the drawing board. i was just wondering if there was something better out there. don't want to sleve it, jeep weighs enough already.

i will try and get some pics up soon

I see a lot of guys using solid aluminum, probably 6 or 7 thousand series. Just drill and tap. Saves wieght and has memory. I'd carry a spare though.

I use 2.0"x.375" DOM with an old axle shaft pounded inside. Rod ends are 1.25" x 1.00" Probably why my Jeep weighs #5180.

The material you are using is heavy enough it just needs more clearance. My arms are 64" and haven't had any problems yet with them hitting stuff.http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/tech/blazer_stretch/P7234555.JPG

man thats a sweet ride:cool:
whats the wheelbase

Originally posted by DASWINE1



It's 2" OD tubing with a 1/4" wall thickness. I ordered DOM tubing. but the place was a local steel supply shop. don't know if they know what it is. so i'm not realy sure what kind of tubing i have.

the parts that i'm bending are my LCA's each one is 4ft long. and i drag them over all kind of stuff. but when they get hit with a big impact they bend. only bent the rear 2 so far and it's not that bad. one nice thing about the material is that it doesn't kink. and i could straighten them but i'm tired of them hanging me up. so back to the drawing board. i was just wondering if there was something better out there. don't want to sleve it, jeep weighs enough already.

i will try and get some pics up soon

Sounds like its time to step up to some 4340 induction hardened links.

Originally posted by PIG


Sounds like its time to step up to some 4340 induction hardened links.

OR YOU COULD JUST MAKE *the* LINKS MATCH THE BENDING MOMENT!!!!!!!!!!!


end <> other end <-------that is the shape you want FUCK TUBE FOR LINKS

used 1.5x.25 dom last rig bent em pretty good just bent the other side to match this time I used pipe. 2" schedule 80, this sh@t is not going to bend....and its cheap when it does...

1.75 x .250 4130

OR YOU COULD JUST MAKE *the* LINKS MATCH THE BENDING MOMENT!!!!!!!!!!!

fawkin enginerds... What did you just say???

1.75 x .250 4130

camo, any bending of yours? have you landed pretty hard on em? I want to use 4130 as well, do you think .25 wall would be okay for a 5k# rig, or should i go .375 wall??

Originally posted by elf_cruiser


fawkin enginerds... What did you just say???


ha

i have landed very hard on mine and the did not bend. they are beefy. it would take a brutal hit to bend it. i think the mount would rip off before they bend. LOL i did make a spare just in case. :D

Camo, what are you using for ends?

Also, how are you guys mounting your ends on the axle sides when you bend your links up like that? Ideally you'd want the end to point to the frame attachement point so you don't have to worry about the shear strength. Know what I'm asking? So the links should be a Z rather than an L.

-Jack

1" tube with angle added or bar stock added to the bottom for strength/slider if straight.

j

On my links I'm using a springeye bushing on the frame end and a johnny joint on the axle end, even mounted the shocks to the bars so that they are completely out of the way.

BTW the wheel base is 124"

Originally posted by IronBenderII
Camo, what are you using for ends?


-Jack

1.25 x 1 heims

no tube adapter needed. they thread directly into the link.

note:
you need to put the link in a lathe and increase the I.D. slightly.

well see right now i've got jonny joints on both sides of my LCA's. the flex is great! 1200 on a 30 ramp. i know that ramps don't mean much. but i want it to still flex like that.

Swine,

Here is what I have for my "lower" links right now. I haven't had the Jeep out of the garage yet to test them, but I suspect they'll hold. It's not so much the material that is the problem with bending links, I think. It's more the fact that they need to be out of the way of the rocks. Anything bends after being slammed on rocks for long enough. They're 1.5x.250DOM. If you need a good place to get DOM, PM me. I know where to get it cheap and I know it's DOM.

J. J.

c:\1\1912.jpg

Why dont you use 4130 and heat treat it, you can almost double the strength of it by heat treating.

Swine, quit worrying about your long ass lower links and GET A DAMN MOTOR! Who cares if you bend you links if that big block will push you up and over. Build em outta 4340. Yeah it's expensive but you won't have to worry about them any more. Or mount the arms on the side of the frame and put about a 20 degree bend in them. Then you hit the tire first instead of the link. Besides if you could actually steer the damn thing you could go around whatever's going to hit the arm!

Total on damage in wreck this W/E: Dually $6000.00, Rental $1200.00, and I still have to pull the axles and see if my housings bent, if so ITS 60 TIME!

We use 1 5/8" 3/8" wall DOM. Weve always have a problem with bending quarter " wall, however never tried quarter " chromoly. Kinda curious how that would hold up.

you can see pic here (http://www.crawltech.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album25&id=Picture_001&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

Bratcher

Originally posted by GOAT1
Why dont you use 4130 and heat treat it, you can almost double the strength of it by heat treating.

Nobody gets it...

Originally posted by PIG


Nobody gets it...


Yea i get it. BUT why. Make them cheep and stout. They WILL bend eventually no matter what they are, and you may want to change some shit so why spend tons of money on heat treated cho mo when it really should be inside your axles.
Use sch 80 pipe Ive seen welder boy crash HARD on his and he wheels the snot out of his shit and none have more than a slight bow. And its like the price of a slurpee. compared to heat treated 4130.

BTW anybody know a good place to pick up multiple sizes of sch wall pipe in the sac or bay areas.

Ian-

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser



Yea i get it. BUT why. Make them cheep and stout. They WILL bend eventually no matter what they are, and you may want to change some shit so why spend tons of money on heat treated cho mo when it really should be inside your axles.
Use sch 80 pipe Ive seen welder boy crash HARD on his and he wheels the snot out of his shit and none have more than a slight bow. And its like the price of a slurpee. compared to heat treated 4130.

BTW anybody know a good place to pick up multiple sizes of sch wall pipe in the sac or bay areas.

Ian-

If you are putting a slight bend in your 50,000 psi tensile strength pipe or even your 80,000 psi DOM, then you are NOT going to be bending 145,000 psi heat treated 4130 suspenion links. Yes, the material cost of 4130 or DOM does not even compare to pipe, but it seems people have evolved from using pipe to using using the right material like DOM. The material cost between 4130 and DOM can be minimal, sometimes only a dollar more per foot for 4130, and that's what $3-4 per link. Obviously you have no real experience with heat treating, it's not that expensive, and it's pretty simple to do.

Yes, if your going to be changing things around, it wouldnt even be worth it to use DOM , but it your happy with your set up and are still bending your DOM or 4130 links, heat treated 4130 my be a good solution for you.

In my case, the cost of making heat treated 4130 links once is cheaper than making DOM links twice or more, plus I take the time to make my parts nice, so if I add in the time I waste making replacement links, I come out ahead using heat treated 4130.

By the way, heat treated 4130 does not belong in your axles, anyone using 4130 for an axle, torsion bar or sway bar is stupid, 4130 should only be used for roll cages and suspension parts.

Originally posted by PIG


Nobody gets it...

not only do i get it...................i GET IT. :flipoff2: oh and i got it.

What series, and heat treat of aluminum would make a good material for control arms? I would like to experiment with some lightweight solid aluminum control arms on the project that I am building. I can get any material that I would need cheaply from work.

I am thinking that 1.5" solid aluminum with the right heat treat would be plenty strong(I would like to try it anyway). My control arms ar going to be pretty long at ~50".

Thanks,
Sean

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser

BTW anybody know a good place to pick up multiple sizes of sch wall pipe in the sac or bay areas.

Ian-


I got all of my stuff from S and K steel on Florin Perkins in sac.....Really cool people and they have a ton of steel there!

I will be using 1 1/4 sched 80 pipe with 3/4 x 3/4 heims....Hoping it will hold up!

Originally posted by Station
What series, and heat treat of aluminum would make a good material for control arms? I would like to experiment with some lightweight solid aluminum control arms on the project that I am building. I can get any material that I would need cheaply from work.

I am thinking that 1.5" solid aluminum with the right heat treat would be plenty strong(I would like to try it anyway). My control arms ar going to be pretty long at ~50".

Thanks,
Sean

Alright, everybody is back from their weekend travels hopefully(of which I had none:( ). So can anybody give their thoughts on the above question?

Sean

station, i know the campbells use AL control arms. Theirs are 7000 series, and they bend em alot. They just bend 'em back straight, though. Personally, I wouldn't use AL for control arms, but that's just me...

Originally posted by RudeZuk



I got all of my stuff from S and K steel on Florin Perkins in sac.....Really cool people and they have a ton of steel there!

I will be using 1 1/4 sched 80 pipe with 3/4 x 3/4 heims....Hoping it will hold up!

That WILL bend.

Originally posted by Station
What series, and heat treat of aluminum would make a good material for control arms? I would like to experiment with some lightweight solid aluminum control arms on the project that I am building. I can get any material that I would need cheaply from work.

I am thinking that 1.5" solid aluminum with the right heat treat would be plenty strong(I would like to try it anyway). My control arms ar going to be pretty long at ~50".

Thanks,
Sean

if you are gettint the material for cheap and you don't mind spending the time trying it then have at it. but i don't think that aluminum of any sort is well suited for lower control arms. it just won't take the abuse. for the top arms that don't see to much direct rock contact i can see it being just fine. since you are getting cheap material maybe make up a few sets and let us know which material holds up the best under real use.

Originally posted by GOAT1
Why dont you use 4130 and heat treat it, you can almost double the strength of it by heat treating.

Thank you.

I duplicated a set of RE longarms for the rear of my buddies TJ with 60's that consistently bent the RE stuff.

Used 2 x .250 wall, swaged one end down for threading in the big rod ends and had them heat treated. Still going strong and unbent after two years of tough wheelin'.

I know it's a bit more money, but if you only want to do it once. Why not?