Anybody here ever had any dealings with Dave's Smallbody HEI's? Appearantly, he will rebuild and convert an IH Holley distributor to GM HEI for a lot less than one of the modified GM HEI distributors.

How much less? Got a website?

Here's the web site:

Dave's Small Body HEI's (http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com)

The IH dist. is not listed on the site but someone else said they got a quote for around $185. A different someone said that Dave's would/could only convert the Holley IH distributors. I haven't contacted him myself yet, will probably do that in the next day or so.

Why not go with his MSD trigger set up and then 1/2 the cost of the MSD 6A is paid for. :D

I need the GM HEI module to run with the GM TBI setup.....

so you need a 5 or 7 pin setup not the 4 pin that it sounds like he will be doing, if the tbi setup also controls spark advance you will need to phaze the distributer and lock out all advace.

these realy arnt hard conversions to do, its a matter of machinig down the cam the points ride on, making a plate for the pickup and modual to sit on and wiring it up.. ive seen a few guys do it in there back yards..

Correct... as I understand it, he will also do the 7 and 8 pin conversions for use with EFI systems. Like you said, the only difference is removing the vacuum advance and locking out the mechanical advance and using a different module to allow electronic spark control.

Got an email back from Dave Ray at Dave's Small Body HEI's. He says that the IH distributor to use is the Holley dist. He can rebuild it, hard chrome the shaft and convert it to use the GM HEI module. He can also lock out both of the advace mechanisms for computer controlled timing with EFI. The cost of either conversion is the same, he just needs to know which module you want him to use. The module will mounted outside the distributor on an aluminum plate. The cost of either conversion is the same the conversions listed on his web site.... $175.00. Looks like I'll be getting one of these as soon as I scrounge up a Holley distributor.

Originally posted by TORC
I scrounge up a Holley distributor.

There very common in my pic and pull, let me know if you need one. My cost + a burrito off of the roach coach!:D Wrenching makes me hungry:p

Originally posted by TORC
The module will mounted outside the distributor on an aluminum plate.

I'd like to see some pics first, will the module be exposed? Will there be clearance problems?

Originally posted by jdjanda


I'd like to see some pics first, will the module be exposed? Will there be clearance problems?
Yes, the module will be exposed and mounted on an alumninum plate to dispate heat. I would imagine that it would be mounted remotely, such as on the fender or firewall. The later small bodied GM HEI's with external coil used a module that kinda half hung out from under the distributor cap and had weather tight connectors. I'll snap a pic of one tonight when I get home and post it up or send it to you.

Well, I couldn't find the damn module to take a picture of so I took a picture of a couple diagrams out of a Chevy service book. Here they are:
http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEImodules.jpg http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEImodpinout.jpg

The on the bottom in the first pic is the 8 pin and has weather tight connectors. The other styles are all under the cap have normal connectors. The bottom pic is the schematic of the 8 pin's hook up.

The 8 pin external looks fairly easy to setup and wire, I would assume the Holly will trigger the unit, you may not need to pay to have the work down, just a thought.

Joe

Had more conversations with Dave.... he said the Holley mag pickup is junk. Does not produce a signal that compatible with the HEI module. I told him that I was wanting to use the Ford Dura Spark adapter, cap and rotor on the Holley dist. so I could have the male terminals on the cap. This opened another door... he does a coversion using the larger Ford cap set and is able to put the HEI module INSIDE the distributor. I like that!!! The conversion he is talking about utilizes the 4 pin module for a non-EFI application. If I'm not mistaken the 4 pin chip and the 7 pin "2A" in the pic above have the same physical dimensions. There is a good chance that he can fit one of hte 7 pins inside the dist as well. He is going to check on that and get back to me. I'll let you know when I find out.

Well, after looking at a some converted distributors, I did a little measuring and then took a trip to the salvage yard. Picked up a stator and reluctor from a donor vehicle and also grabbed one of the 8-pin HEI modules with the connectors. I tinkered around out in the garage last night and in about an hour, I converted a Holley 4-cyl electronic distributor into an 8-cyl GM HEI distributor. I hooked up the leads of the stator to my digi-multimeter and with just spinning the shaft by hand, was able to produce a signal voltage of over 3 volts.

I got the distributor from someone on the BB for about $10 (the cost of shipping it to me) and the stator, reluctor and HEI module for mere pennies. So far, I have less than $15 invested in the conversion, but I still have to buy a new cap and rotor. Since I have the 1980 style waterneck, I don't think clearance will be an issue so I'm going to use the Ford DuraSpark cap and rotor which means I'll have to buy the adapter as well. All in all, it was an easy and cheap conversion and another hurdle cleared in the path to EFI for the 345.

Before you birrage me with tons on requests for pics, I do have some but have not had the time to dl them off the camera and get them posted up. I will probably do a little write up and stick it on my page. I'll let you know...........

Why a 4 cly disty

Originally posted by jdjanda
Why a 4 cly disty
It's what I had laying around. There is no difference between the 4-cyl Holley electronic and 8-cyl Holley electronic disty except the number of lobes on the reluctor. An 8-cyl would work just the same.....

http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEI/P0001331.JPG
http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEI/P0001332.JPG
http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEI/P0001333.JPG

Got and Part#'s??

Originally posted by TORC
I told him that I was wanting to use the Ford Dura Spark adapter, cap and rotor on the Holley dist. so I could have the male terminals on the cap.

Where do you get this adapter? Will this adapter, cap and rotor fit a holley points distributor?

wow, looks like a standard ford setup! ford triger and pickup etc.. shuld be able to get replacement parts for cheep at any local auto parts store! the ford pickups are the best ones, much stronger output than a gm style. i might have to look into this, i could do a tb setup real cheep........ hmmmmmmm?

Originally posted by Old Scout
Got and Part#'s??
Cap: FD313z
Rotor: FD117x
Adapter: FD156
Reluctor: RE7
Stator: ME12
http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/HEI/P0001309.JPG

I don't have a part number on the mounting plate that the stator rides on. I yanked all of these parts from a disty in the salvage yard. Got 'em off an early 80's Ford pickup. I believe the cap, rotor, adapter are from a 351 Modified.

Originally posted by TORC

Cap: FD313z
Rotor: FD117x
Adapter: FD156
Reluctor: RE7
Stator: ME12
I don't have a part number on the mounting plate that the stator rides on. I yanked all of these parts from a disty in the salvage yard. Got 'em off an early 80's Ford pickup. I believe the cap, rotor, adapter are from a 351 Modified.

That's way :cool: I have a MSD 6A and hate that I can't use the mag trigger set up on it!

Cheers :beer::beer:

Originally posted by T1H5_TA3
wow, looks like a standard ford setup! ford triger and pickup etc.. shuld be able to get replacement parts for cheep at any local auto parts store! the ford pickups are the best ones, much stronger output than a gm style. i might have to look into this, i could do a tb setup real cheep........ hmmmmmmm?
Did I mention that I have a whopping $35 invested in it. Old disty was $10, cap/rotor/adapter was $20 and the used stator/reluctor/mounting plate and HEI module was $5 cha-ching!!

Originally posted by Ben W


Where do you get this adapter? Will this adapter, cap and rotor fit a holley points distributor?
The adapter is available at any auto parts store (see other post for part#). I don't know if any of these parts will fit the Holley points distributor or not. I don't have one handy to try it either. I do know that it fits a Holley electronic (either 4 or 8 cyl) :D

TORC,

How do we align the stator so that it's in the right position on the shaft? Why not use buy a Pertonix for a little more money instead of modifying everything? Just asking.... :)

Originally posted by Hammerlock
TORC,

How do we align the stator so that it's in the right position on the shaft? Why not use buy a Pertonix for a little more money instead of modifying everything? Just asking.... :)
Make sure the rotor is pointing directly at one of the terminals on the cap. Then align the reluctor so that one of the 'fingers' is pointing directly at the metal bar in the center of stator's coil. Now lock the reluctor down and it's properly phased.
Hmmm.... let's see now, $70 to $100 for a Pertronix Ignitor (which they don't even make yet for the Holley electronic disty) or <$5 for an even higher output magnetic trigger....hmmmm need I say more?

Originally posted by TORC

Make sure the rotor is pointing directly at one of the terminals on the cap. Then align the reluctor so that one of the 'fingers' is pointing directly at the metal bar in the center of stator's coil. Now lock the reluctor down and it's properly phased.
Hmmm.... let's see now, $70 to $100 for a Pertronix Ignitor (which they don't even make yet for the Holley electronic disty) or <$5 for an even higher output magnetic trigger....hmmmm need I say more?

I doubt you could tell any real world performance diff between a pertronix and a hei module. sure you only paid $5 for it, but it's used and who knows how long it will last. anyway I still think it's a great project, just maybe a lot of hassle for people who don't have a lot of spare time on their hands. One thing about these old distributors is that's hard to find an used one with good bushings. Anybody know of a source for new bushings? I didn't think so....

Originally posted by Hammerlock


I doubt you could tell any real world performance diff between a pertronix and a hei module. sure you only paid $5 for it, but it's used and who knows how long it will last. anyway I still think it's a great project, just maybe a lot of hassle for people who don't have a lot of spare time on their hands. One thing about these old distributors is that's hard to find an used one with good bushings. Anybody know of a source for new bushings? I didn't think so....
My local ACE Hardware has a whole bin full of various sizes of bronze bushings. They even have the correct sizes. :rolleyes: Mine didn't need new bushings as it met the specs in the service manual. Ok, so you don't like used. When/if these used parts quit working, the reluctors are $6 new (although I don't know how a reluctor could ever stop working) and the stators are $20 new. I could replace it 4 or 5 times for the price of an Ignitor. :rolleyes: And dude, you must have missed the part that says I'm using this for a GM EFI swap. The ECM has to have the GM HEI module to allow for computer controlled spark timing. There ain't no way you're gonna get an Ignitor to do that. Also, you will note (if you read) that this conversion took place on a Holley electronic disty. Pertronix is working on the Ignitor for this disy as I understand, but it is not available at present.

Dude, it's ok. It's a good project. You did good. :D

OK, so it's only a year later... but I finally got off my arse and worked up a write up of the distributor conversion.

HEI for IH SV's (http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/tetanus/HEI/HEImain.html)

cool, nice write up. :cool:

good tech :D

TORC...

I feel duuuuuuuuuuuuuummmbbb



Oh...yeah...thanks for shooting down my Dana20/300 hybrid.

Originally posted by Harvester of Sorrow
TORC...

I feel duuuuuuuuuuuuuummmbbb



blame your parents :flipoff2: when you coming back to Utah??

Originally posted by Harvester of Sorrow
TORC...

I feel duuuuuuuuuuuuuummmbbb



Oh...yeah...thanks for shooting down my Dana20/300 hybrid.
I didn't shoot it down... entirely.... yet... looking into something else that might just be the missing link. More to come on that......

Originally posted by troutbum


blame your parents :flipoff2: when you coming back to Utah??

You should meet my mother...drive you batty in a second:D


I really liked UTAH while I was there...granted it was only for what 3-4 days...


Lotsa pretty ladies...:cool:

Originally posted by TORC

I didn't shoot it down... entirely.... yet... looking into something else that might just be the missing link. More to come on that......



So do you want to fill a brother in on the missing link idea...:confused:

Should we move this to PM's again:eek:

Great Write-up TORC!;) ;) ;)

Ben W or OS,
Hows about adding this to the tech section - or since it only applies to IHs - make it a sticky?

Looks familiar. But the pics are nice.
Duraspark conversion (http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75)

:rolleyes:

Torc what kind of shape were your bushings in? Most of the ones I've checked over the years had excessive bushing to shaft clearance. I doubt there's a source for replacement bushings. I wouldn't put money into any distributor that had more than .002 side play. A lot of them have them more wear then that on the mainshaft alone. This will show up on an oscilloscope.

No noticeable excessive side-play... checked it with a dial indicator but did not 'scope it. The way I see it, I rebuilt the engine and would have used the same distributor. I just did the conversion to a "good" used distributor and it only cost me $35 including the cost of the distributor. Can't hardly tune up a stock distributor with a new cap and rotor for that much. After all the main goal of doing all this was to have a way to utilize the GM EFI setup.

I'm not running a high performance engine.... just a IH 345 turnin' low R's. I'm fairly confident that any losses associated with a slightly worn dist. shaft I'm sure I more than gained back with the hotter spark from the HEI... not to mention the gains obtained from the EFI. For me, I think it was well worth it.

During the conversion, I was at my local ACE hardware store and they had a whole bin full of different sized bronze bushings. Memory is kinda fuzzy since that was over a year ago, but I'm pretty sure I remember them having the right size. At least the ID was right.... it's hard to say what the OD would be like since I never pressed one of the old bushing out to measure or compare it. If you did have a slopped out dist. or were worried about it enough, you could always send your IH Holley dist. to Dave Ray at Dave's Small Body HEI's (http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com). When I got a quote from him last year, he would rebush the housing, hard-chrome the shaft, and rebuild it with the Duraspark magnetic pickup and GM HEI module, new cap and rotor for $175. Still a much better price than the rip-off $300+ alternative converted distributors IMO.

It makes a bigger diff then you might think. The problem isn't with how "hot" the spark is but with the timing. Basically spark timing is all over the place. Engines will run ok with worn bushings just not as smooth as they should. Sounds like yours aren't too bad though.

Originally posted by Hammerlock
It makes a bigger diff then you might think. The problem isn't with how "hot" the spark is but with the timing. Basically spark timing is all over the place. Engines will run ok with worn bushings just not as smooth as they should. Sounds like yours aren't too bad though.
Ahh..... I'm with ya now. I was thinking about getting my hands on another IH Holley dist. and have Dave's rebush & chrome the shaft if he would do JUST that. I can handle the rest of the work. But that will be for a later date when I have some extra $$$ laying around.

Originally posted by Hammerlock
Torc what kind of shape were your bushings in? Most of the ones I've checked over the years had excessive bushing to shaft clearance. I doubt there's a source for replacement bushings. I wouldn't put money into any distributor that had more than .002 side play. A lot of them have them more wear then that on the mainshaft alone. This will show up on an oscilloscope. Is there an echo in here?

Originally posted by Ben Segrest
Is there an echo in here?
I think so... but since there was over a year between the echos, I didn't give him any crap over it.:flipoff2: