Welcome to the next contribution to the
The Official Pirate4x4.com Jeep Talk Bible (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705122)

Topic of the Month Leaf Springs

This includes hybrid packs, how to change the offset, pins, shackles, Hangers, clips.

This does not include comparisons of purchased leaf spring lift packs, Antiwrap bars, traction bars.

Some notes I have saved.

Leaf spring rate Formula:
[((Width of leaves in inches)X(Number of leaves))/12]X[(1000Xthickness of one leaf in inches)/(length of spring eye to eye)]^3= spring rate

80-88 Toy rear 48" 20.5" 27.5" 2.36" SOA (SR5 1985 is 280lb/in)
Toyota front 45" 22.5" 22.5" 2.36" SOA
80-85 Rancho 3" Toyota front 45.12" 22.56" 22.56" 2.36" SOA
SkyJacker 5" Toyota front 46" 23" 23" 2.36" SOA
Mazda rear (?? year) 52" 26.5" 25.5" 2.36" SUA
80-88 Toy 4" SkyJacker Rear 49" 21" 28" 2.36" SOA
80-88 Toy 5" SkyJacker Rear 49.5" 21.25" 28.25" 2.36" SOA
89-95 Toy Rear 51" 21.5" 29.5" 2.36" SOA
84 Mazda 2wd rear 51.5" 25.5" 26" 2.36" SUA
84 Isuzu Trooper II rear 47" 21" 26" ??? SUA
Jeep YJ Front or Rear 45" 22.5" 22.5" 2.50" SUA
Pro Comp Jeep YJ 2.5" Lift 46" 23" 23" 2.50 SUA
85 S-10 rear 54" 26" 27" 2.50" SUA
83 Ford Ranger 2wd rear 57" 25.5" 31.5" 2.50" SUA
76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd front (6 leaf) 48" 24" 24" 2.50" SUA
89 Chevy 2wd rear 63" ?? ?? 2.50" SUA
76-92 Wagoneer Rancho 44044 47.00 22.9" 20.8" 2.50" SUA
76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd rear (6 leaf) 57" 26" 31" 2.50" SOA
84 Jeep Cherokee rear (4 leaf) 52.5" 23.5" 29" 2.50" SOA
87-95 dakota Dakota rears 2.5" wide use Xj main leaf and Dakota leafs net 3.5inlift

Good way to improve the ride and improve flex potential. Graphite Paint.


I guess in a sense you're reducing the effective spring rate in some manner due to the reduction of interleaf friction.



I've used the full length plastic liners in the past. FYI .... They don't really hold up.




There's my 2 cents for the night. Too tired to share anything else off the top of my head. If I think of anything else ... I'll post up.




Joe

First off, SAFETY. Most of us know this already, but leaf spring packs are bolted together under tension. If you have never taken leaves apart, Get a decent sized pair of C-clamps. Clamp around both sides of the center pin before trying to remove the pin. There is easily enough force there to kill you. Remove the pin, then loosen the clamps.

When reassembling, use a much longer pin or bolt to keep the leaves aligned while you reclamp the pack back together. Then remove the long pin and use your normal length pin to bolt it up.

That being said, One of the most common ways of making hybrid packs are to use the mainleaf (with eyes removed) or 2nd leaf from another set and add it into your pack. If you add one or more leaves, you can start leaving off the shorter bottom leaves of your pack to keep the pack the same thickness.

My current rear leaves are a Cherokee pack mainleaf, another cherokee mainleaf, a 3" add-a-leaf, and then the stock cherokee 2nd and 3rd leafs. I left off the 4th leaf. It has netted me around 4-4.5" lift in the rear with stock shackles. I also drilled out the center holes of all the leaves to a size or so bigger to use a bigger bolt.

When reassembling, use a much longer pin or bolt to keep the leaves aligned while you reclamp the pack back together. Then remove the long pin and use your normal length pin to bolt it up.



To add to that ....



Like U-bolts ... it has been suggested time & again to replace the center pin rather than re-ues it. Unlike a u-bolt ... you won't immediately notice a pin failure (because the u-bolt is doing indirect leaf spring clamping) but that doesn't mean it's not worth replacing a 3 dollar part.



to kill you?? hahaha

leaf springs suck but they dont suck that much



Try it yourself and see. Report back.


Oh wait --- You'll be in the ER. :D Even with clamps ....I've had some close calls with thicker packs (from heavier pickups). There is a LOT of tension there.

Forgot to mention that, thanks! Advance Autoparts or Autozone should be able to order or keep in stock a replacement pin that is around 10" long and can be cut down to the size you need. Its one of those HELP! parts.

If you want to change the offset on the main leaf you have to redrill the center pin. Do not ruin your good drill bits. Get a cheap masonry bit from the hardware store, that bit will last at least two main leafs, regular drill bits you wont even get one new hole.

If your stepping up to a larger pin once yours have snapped. get a good step drill bit. regular drill bit will just burn up and the carbide tipped masonry bits will wallow all over the place.

If you add one or more leaves, you can start leaving off the shorter bottom leaves of your pack to keep the pack the same thickness.

Ive had good luck using most of the lower leaves and adding a Toyota minitruck overload leaf. I really like the added over load leaf, it controls hopping but does not limit flex.

I used that overload leaf on the XJ front and rear and now on the land cruiser.

I've used the full length plastic liners in the past. FYI .... They don't really hold up.


I did the bastard pack deal. I bent them pretty quick, however I had no traction bar. I bought a 4" BDS xj pack. I put Deaver spring liner it. Full length. That's been 3 years with no issues about holding up. It has a lip to hold it in place.

There is easily enough force there to kill you. Remove the pin, then loosen the clamps.


to kill you?? hahaha






Try it yourself and see. Report back.


Oh wait --- You'll be in the ER. :D Even with clamps ....I've had some close calls with thicker packs (from heavier pickups). There is a LOT of tension there.

I did. No trip to the er.:shaking:

We're not talking about heavier trucks here. We're talking about flexy xj springs. A c-clamps works fine. I line them up with a screwdriver.

I'm only sharing my experience with the liners. You had better luck than I did. For what it's worth ... I used the TCI Engineering brand liners.




As for the "exploding" leafspring .... you are correct. The XJ pack is pretty flimsy. But most people doing a bastard pack are dealing with the disassembly of a heavier spring (i.e dakota, s10, etc) where the force is greater. And I'm going to *assume* they're doing it at the JY where improvising with tools is the norm. C clamps can (and do) slip off sometimes if the user is careless with the placement. I had one pop apart on me when I least expected it. Scared the shit out of me, but I wasn't that close to it to be "worried"


All a matter of perspective, I guess.

I modified my shackle hanger for a better angle
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s74/4x4hiker/Picture119.jpg
and used 1/4" UHMW strips stacked between my leaves
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s74/4x4hiker/Picture127.jpg

Nice pinion bumpstop!

I currently run slider boxes in the rear of my rig. I did a bit of studying before going with this setup and came up with this thread which has a lot of info in it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836831

I built a 7" travel slider box, and the main change I made compared to this thread was I tried to angle the box down more. I used UHMW for the slides, and sandwiched bronze oil impregnated washers between the bushings and the inside of the box. All bolted up with a nylock nut. Everything is avail through McMasterCarr.

I've only ran one comp and a trjc event with them so I can't give a full review of them, but as of now I don't have any major issues. After this season I think Im going to play around with the spring pack to try to get a little bit flex out of the pack.

http://www.taboocustoms.com/Slider%20close%20up.JPG

I read somewhere Rolls Royce's spring tech guy, hand stitches a leather booty around there leaf packs, then fills it full of special grease:D

Im currently playing around with dodge van springs in one of my cherokees. They have the same front eye to center pin measurement, but are about 2.5" longer from the pin to the rear eye, and being from a sua vehicle, they have lots of arch. The excess length makes for an ideal shackle angle, but also caused my shackles to hit the back of the box and bumper bolts even at ride height. I decided to box in the shackle hangers, and use the dodge van hangers and shackles.
Plates made from 1/4" scrap
523190
Dodge hangers with mounting flange cut off and ground to sit flat on plate
523191
welded up
523192
installed
523193
inner shackle halves had to be ground round on the top to clear the plates
523194

end result
523195
523196

I'm currently running the main leaf, and leafs 1, and 3 of the dodge pack. All though the individual dodge leaves are considerably thicker those from the xj pack, the 3 leaf pack is surprisingly flexible. Combined with the boxed hanger, and dodge shackles (which are about an inch longer) they provide about 4ish in. of lift. Xj leaves may find their way into the pack in place of or in addition to the dodge leaves down the road, but im quite pleased with it the way it sits.
The springs i used were from a 88 dodge 3/4t van. Springs are the same from 79 to 97, and i believe the only difference between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton packs is the addition of a leaf. The front spring eye in the dodge pack does utilize a slightly larger bolt, but i put mine back together with the original xj bolt for now.

One thing that might be nice to see from the above list is how much lift can you get from a swapped spring set.
I am planning on the Toyota rear swap(cuz I got a set) but not sure how much lift that will net?

For what it's worth, I'm running a set of leaf springs from a 98 Durango with the eyes cut off and minus the second leaf, with a #1 XJ leaf, all under the XJ main. That plus a 1.5" shackle netted me about 5" of lift.

How much are you guys paying for the liners? Any links for the TCI engineering and Deaver pads since I couldnt find them on the site?

How much are you guys paying for the liners? Any links for the TCI engineering and Deaver pads since I couldnt find them on the site?

I can't remember the price. I just called deaver. It wasn't on their site.

I cant believe this isn't on here yet!
http://littlekeylime.com/MrN/mrnimages/leaf_springs.png

How much are you guys paying for the liners? Any links for the TCI engineering and Deaver pads since I couldnt find them on the site?

I found this:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flat-Spring-Liners,7471.html
8ft, trim to width.

main leafs break/bend, make a clamp two 3/8in plates with some good 1/2in or 9/16in bolts. Great for trail repairs I usually keep this in my tool box even though I no longer run leafs.
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_100_1670_598.jpg
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_100_1673_352.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/WernerSchmidt/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC00731.jpg

Try it yourself and see. Report back.


Oh wait --- You'll be in the ER. :D Even with clamps ....I've had some close calls with thicker packs (from heavier pickups). There is a LOT of tension there.

shut the fuck up dude.. i've taken plenty of leaf packs apart cuz im a broke bastard and build all my own shit and NEVER have i ever had even a "close" call.. yeah they spring apart a little bit... but not enough to hurt someone..

shut the fuck up dude.. i've taken plenty of leaf packs apart cuz im a broke bastard and build all my own shit and NEVER have i ever had even a "close" call.. yeah they spring apart a little bit... but not enough to hurt someone..



Kiss off twit ... the statement was said in mild jest. Hence the use of a smiley.

No one made any mention of money or being broke. All that was mentioned was the potential force of the spring separating. Try harder not to read in between the lines.



You don't like it? Tough shit.

I found this:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flat-Spring-Liners,7471.html
8ft, trim to width.

More better. It has the lip to keep it in place.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spring-Liners-with-Lip,2079.html

More better. It has the lip to keep it in place.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spring-Liners-with-Lip,2079.html

looks like these only comes in widths up to 2-1/4", anyone know of a source for 2-1/2"?

looks like these only comes in widths up to 2-1/4", anyone know of a source for 2-1/2"?

Yeah, thats why I didn't show those. Chero springs are 2 1/2". The lip would definitely help.

As to taking springs apart, I still maintain that some packs could very well be life threatening given the right circumstances. Who knows what someone may try to get leaves from, whether an F150, an F550 or a garbage truck. As long as you take the right precautions and understand they are under tension, then carry on.

Also, here are 3 pages of the HELP! leaf spring bolts:
http://www.dormanproducts.com/c-651-spring-center-bolts.aspx?pagenum=1
Advance Auto Parts or Autozone should be able to order those part numbers if they don't keep a universal one in stock.
Click on the part numbers for info on that bolt. The first 4 are universal bolts in 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, and 1/2 threads around 12" long each. The rest are stock replacements in looks like.

I was after a touch of stretch in the back of my XJ, but local wreckers cherish everything they sell so I wasn't up for paying top $$.
I talked to a local spring shop to make new mains for me, 2" longer then stock, and with the center eye drilled 1" further back than stock. Cost was $100 for 2...

When I asked them about "spring pads" they mentioned they had a roll of the teflon stuff, which they hardly ever use... 40' cost me $30 and has been serving me well for almost a year now.
I have it between each leaf, it has the lip, and althought it looks like it could move when drooped down... it's still in place.

I'm surprised how much good luck some of you guys have had with the liners. Mine came from TCI .... and like I said earlier, they didn't last very long.



The graphite worked well for the money. Think it lasted about 1.5 years or so. Some folks may not like taking the leaf apart every now and again for a cleanup --- but for the price, it was worth the money. Don't know which one was more "slippery" though.



I have to look through my old scanned files ... but would anyone be interested in a picture or three how to build a spring rate tester for leaves?

looks like these only comes in widths up to 2-1/4", anyone know of a source for 2-1/2"?

Like I said earlier. Call Deaver. That is where I got mine. No it's not on their site. :shaking:

Leaf Springs make my brain hurt,.. I am going to try a few different combos in the rear of the XJ in hope of getting some flex but keeping some stability,..

I have been taxing my brain and so far a good option looks like the Sport Track leafs,...

OK well I look at this thread and started to experiment,.. and '95 S10 Blazer springs by themselves so far are damn close to XJ springs, more arc than stock but length is almost identical,... faccck back to the drawing board,... pics to follow,.. next ford? Dodge?

OK well I look at this thread and started to experiment,.. and '95 S10 Blazer springs by themselves so far are damn close to XJ springs, more arc than stock but length is almost identical,... faccck back to the drawing board,... pics to follow,.. next ford? Dodge?

I know Dakota leafs are commonly used for cheap bastard pack XJ lifts, if that helps you at all.

Also the 4WD S10's have a larger arch than the 2wd S10's. When using the XJ main and cutting down the S10's and using all of them and the second longest XJ I netted 4-4.5 inches.

Here are the 95 Blazer springs VS the XJ bastard pack (5 xj leaf) , the xj pack has been redrilled to move the pin BTW. The white "sliders" is a 3Mpolymer thats a bitch to cut but has lasted 3+ years of abuse.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qk5qhw.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/344z0ae.jpg

S-10 Pack VS Bastard pack

http://i49.tinypic.com/10xefcj.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/1g5d7o.jpg

2nd the advice on using masonary bits for drilling new holes, cut like butter, regualar bit just made the most god awfull squeel and barely scratched it.

Anyone running chevy 63's in the rear? I'd imagine they would get a nice stretch as well as maybe some lift? I've looked around for a thread on it, but I haven't found much solid info/pictures.

These are 63's mounted in the stock front mount. I expect them to be rock anchors but I'll link it after I bend a few springs.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/lax1785/XJ%20tail%20end%20rebuild/11-8-10071.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/lax1785/XJ%20tail%20end%20rebuild/100_0608.jpg

These are 63's mounted in the stock front mount. I expect them to be rock anchors but I'll link it after I bend a few springs.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/lax1785/XJ%20tail%20end%20rebuild/11-8-10071.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/lax1785/XJ%20tail%20end%20rebuild/100_0608.jpg

what year/model did they come from, i dont have a 63" listed on the page i have. thanks i will be doing this in the spring just want to know what year to get them out of.

drew

All that I know for sure is that they came from a fourth generation Chevy/ GMC 1500. I did get a little info from this page though. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20665

thanks that answered a few ?'s actually and i happen to have a buddy with a totaled 93, looks like im going to pull his leafs.

drew