Anyone got advice for going wheelin with a young one. Due date is 10/28 and I would like to wheelin next summer/fall. Am I crazy? How do you secure both yourself and the young one? Got low gears and can go slow... Any good ideas?

Oh, before someone suggests it...No, I am not using the "Mutslinger" but maybe a shock absorbing car seat.


:rasta:

as much fun as that would be, please don't

kids are so fragile when they are that young, I would say wait until they can walk. then get a nice cage and make sure they are strapped in real good.

the first year will fly by, and you will be more worried about sleep than wheelin ;)

My kid is now over one and walking, can't wait to take him. Keep in mind at less than a couple years it isn't fun for them, might as well leave em with someone while you go..

Good point.

I don't want to hurt him/her...that's for sure. And the thought of diapers in the woods doesn't excite my nose hairs either... But, I still believe it can happen if you take a very slow pace and come prepared. I have seen it done. I was just looking for someone that's done it that has advice/suggestions. I'm thinking short trips...to Spider or the Springs only.

You're right though, a sitter would be easier and probably better for the kid.

I posted this topic about a year ago, I know how you feel but I would bet money when the time comes you won't be doin it ;) Atleast wait till your kid can ride in a forward facing seat and his/her neck is strong enough to take a jolt. I took my kid on 3 campin trips so far, but all of them I borrowed my parents cherokee, just wasn't ready to take my rig. Next summer..

I could be wrong, but I doubt it..

I thought the same thing... Now she is 19 months and the worst she has been on is some torn up dirt roads ;)

Our plans are to just feel out how she is acting, and take it slow - working our way up to actual trail rides.

But now that she is here - that rush to get her out on the trail is just not as important... you will probably feel the same way :)

We took our son with us when he was 6 monthes. he slept most of the time and didn't cry at all. I think he liked the rocking. he sat in his car seat most of the time, and we took a long brake in the middle. good luck on your new little one:)

Originally posted by Brandon
the first year will fly by, and you will be more worried about sleep than wheelin ;)
..

To True......noboby can understand until they have one themselves.

I've seen both good and bad baby wheelers. Circumstances on the trail can never really be totally controlled. You may have your act together but some moron doesn't and your baby gets hurt. I've also watch as another idiot couple pounded up a trail with their infant in a well secured car seat. Yes the seat didn't move, but that poor childs head was all over the place. I wouldn't be surprised if there were bruises from the straps to add to the shaken baby syndrome it was going through. Please reconsider.

I'm not knocking those who have done it without problems. I'm very glad they did. But you may not be the cause of a problem for there to be one.

I have seen a cool jeep with a center mounted "junior dragster" seat and harnesses mounted for a 3 or 4 year old. It was cool. the seat and harnesses matched mom's and dad's.

I took my son out once when he was around two, but it was like someone else said....the seat was secured but he bounced around. After about 30 minutes, we were back at camp.

my 5 year old has been wheeling with us since he was 4 months old and my 2 year old ran jack hammer when he was 6 weeks old.



both my kids have more seat time on hard core trails than most adults.

when my 5 year old was learning to talk his favorite one liner was ......be a man dad, roll it!

anyhow the key point of wheeling with kids are:

be aware at all times
saftey first
seat belts always
proper mounted kid seats
bring lots of snacks for the kids
plenty of water
change of cloths
warm cloths


i have spent plenty of trips getting out of trails at 3am with the kids and being prepared for the worst has always paid off for me.

parents willing to spent the time to teach kids to apcriate (sp?) the outdoors and acomadate their needs so they enjoy themselfs.

Camo,

Dare I say you are far more skilled at wheelin than the average Joe, though. That is a large part of the safety factor for the child. Do you agree?

Originally posted by GRIDWNC
Camo,

Dare I say you are far more skilled at wheelin than the average Joe, though. That is a large part of the safety factor for the child. Do you agree?

skilled? not sure about that : but i do have enuff experiance to know when a potentenially dangerious situation is looming and i will usually have the kids get out, just in case. i have floped it many times with the kids in the rig but it has always been very controled and safe situations. i would never expose my kids to any serious hazards. it is all calculated risk. sure my tolerance is probally higher than many parents but i have crashed many diffrent kinds of rigs from race cars to motercycles enuff times to understand the dangers of the situations i get into. i guess the moral of the story is: understand the situation you are in and don't take risk over your head or that you may not understand. ( which goes back to my first rule. Be aware at all times

I'm with camo here, both my sons have been wheeling since early on. The only trip my youngest son missed was the hammer run 6 days after he was born, and I think that it was moma's decision. I wheeled with my dad when I was little too. A good car seat with a neck roll and a little judicious line picking will make for an enjoyable time for all.

My sons and my buddies sons are in a competition to see how many rolls eachother have been involved in. Both are in the high 20's and neither has ever had so much as a scratch. I usually know when it's gonna get ugly and they know when to sit on thier hands.

Originally posted by Bigburlynakedguy
they know when to sit on thier hands.

how kids other than ours know this :D LOL


fyi. my kids have a beard bench seat and even with their arms outstreched they can not reach the outside of the rig.

I'm with Camo on this one. (did I just type that?)

I first took Calvin at 18months. We used one of those cheesy blow up airline neck pillows as a neck support. He had a blast. Calvin now goes all he can, as long as he gets to get out and romp around on breaks. Most of our "vacations" involve expedition style camping, so he has no choice really.

Just remember, if you ever have to ask yourself, "should I take this line?" with junior in the truck, DON'T DO IT! You can fix a truck, but the damage to junior might be permanent.

If you are at all uncomfortable, don't do it. Your hesitation may affect you on the trail.

j

Originally posted by redrangie
but the damage to junior might be permanent.


j

ya look at me! your kid may end up like me. :flipoff2:

My son and daughter started going when they were around 2 years. They love it! When its time, you gotta get one of these...

http://store.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sim-carseat.jpg

Well I don't have children but I do study them both physically and mentally and my wife works as a social worker for the peds. department so i guess I could give my input. Do remember that the bones of infants are not fully ossified and the cranial bones (skull) are not fully fused yet. The skull is still soft and does not offer much protection in the way of impacts, thus high risk of brain damage due to buising. The skeletal bones are still soft and the epidermis (skin) is not nearly as tough. Of coures the neck is severly week and takes like 3 months for them to even hold their head up. I don't know what kind of wheeling you do but it really doesn't matter if you are thinking about taking your infant/baby wheeling. They really shouldn't be out there jostling around with bodies that really can't stand that kind of thing. I saw some idiot mother holding her new born while they went wheeling in the Rubicon and I wish I would have said something. You may think you won't roll but stupid things happen. I had a school friend go skidding off the road and head off the mountain and was killed. An extreme example maybe but the point is you can roll or hit something or someone can hit you and that can be very dangerous to your baby. Life is something precious and extremely fragile. Psychologicaly the first years are the most important as it is physically. I'd hate to see damage to a child by an avoidable accident. Well you asked so I told. My advice is to wait on the wheeling and spend time with your new one in other ways that will develope the physical,mental, and spiritual bond between the both of you. Time goes by so fast you'll be out wheeling together before you know it.

i know i am a newbie but i have lurked for a long time (even before i logged in). i was overwhelmed by the knowledge and absurdity:eek: on this board....
So here is some sound, not emotional advice.

As adults , we are able to forsee obstacles coming on a trail and also gauge the size and difficulty of that obstacle. We can therefore prepare our muscle structure to brace and relax as we travel over the object, in a sense we can balance ourselves and remain flexible to "roll" with the obstacle. Babies and young ones can not.

They can not forsee the obstacle and determine which actions their bodies should take so they wobble, jiggle and shake over the object. Just watch your newbie passanger on a trail and they will be bouncing all over until they understand how the flexing issues of the rig they are in works.

A baby will never understand these spatial relationships. At about 3 years of age they will be much more alert and reactive to the forces applied upon them.

The other more important issue is gravity. Why is it we cradle an infants head when we pick them up and hold them? Its because their postural muscles are not developed yet and their head has no ability to overcome gravity. At about one year they have a good postural muscle base to lift their head against slight resistance.

By taking them wheeling, their head is free to move with no ability to resist gravity let alone a rig that is flexing and bumping along a "smooth" trail.

Try this experiment. Put yourself in a harness in the passanger seat and blindfold and plug your ears (a baby is not truly "aware" of their environment) and let your buddy wheel you down the "con". How was your neck the next day?

Now where the problem may come into your kids lives Camo is when they are 12-14 yrs old with constant headaches and if xrayed their spines will resemble a typical whiplash associated disorder. And than again they may get lucky and escape neck, shoulder, mid back and low back pain as they reach their twenties. i sincerely hope so.
Please wait until at least 3 years of age. Thanks.

I don't like taking them until they can tell me what their problems are. Too hot, too cold - hungry, exhaust fumes, etc. But there are guys in my club who take infants. Main concern is that they are strapped in and that nothing is gonna fall out onto them.

Jeeping with kids means extra food, extra stuff, and you need to be with a group that understands the kids needs.

Here's a pic from yesterday, my 5 year old was the only one who wanted to go out in the cold. This will be the last run of the year for the kids - it's been snowing and the jeep has no heat.

never said there was anything wrong with it and I knew camo would chime in eventually ;)

I didn't make it on the trail this year, not to say with my next I won't his first year. You just need to know your kid first. Camo's wife is a trooper, I remember her changing a diaper at one of the competetions a few years back while dad was welding up someones detroit. It inspired me, but it just didn't work that way for me. My kid got rides on the road but never made it off road. Things could have been different - but I am glad I took the year to figure out how to take care of a kid..

this was just a few months old, but I never made it to the trail like that. The wife just reminded me we did make it on the trail, and we forgot diapers :eek: It was just an overnighter and not much wheelin but fun still :)

Its cool when your little girl begs you to take her on the Rubicon. I took my daughter on her first trail ride at 4. She had an absolute great time. Most people take their kids to do things that bond them together. It is such a wonderful feeling that she wants to do this with me. I know that I have experienced something with my daughter that we should always be able to relate to and always look back on. People have told me that a father/daughter relationship has very difficult times when the teens come, I hope that we can always do this together.

Leann is 3 and she has been over the rubicon,through Helldorodo and every thing else moab has to offer as well as northern cali oregon and washington.she started wheelin around9-10 months of coarse she was strong and she could walk at one year old to.

Originally posted by Brandon
. Camo's wife is a trooper, I remember her changing a diaper at one of the competetions a few years back while dad was welding up someones detroit. It inspired me, ..

team work :D

you should have seen us at the womens rock crawl. she was rolling the All-Pro rig and I was changing the kids diapers. ( hers too :D )

Once my boys were 2 years old I figured that was a good time to start them. They love it, and they would rather watch wheeling videos than cartoons. :D

Well I take all three of my kids wheeling and they love it age's 4yrs- 7yrs- 8yrs I would wait till he/she is a year and you can all ways have mom get out with the kid on the hard stuff but show the wife what to look out for while holding baby. On the busy trails look out for the Drunks they will hurt some fast if you give them a chance.

dang.. my babys 8 months old now and has been in the jeep since he was 5 months. i say take the baby as soon as he can hold his own head up solidly w/o flobbling around. His first trip in the jeep @ 5mo. was a full blow week long wheelin trip. He did catch cold sleeping in the tent at night towards the end of the week.. ( camp was @ 9000' temps in the 50's) but anytime he was not sleeping in the back of the jeep he was laughing...having a blast..

we were out again this weekend, on the roughest trails hes been on yet. Damage from 3 vehicles = 1 rear 44 shaft, 1 warn premium hub.. 2 hard flops (not us), 1 broken main leaf. he loves it.

When the going gets to rough, or looks like it could get hairy, there is ALWAYS one of my buddys standing by waiting for the baby. He's never been in danger and i wouldnt go wheeling without him.


his baby seat is bolted into the cage just like our seats, rear facing (although i'm not sure if this is the best direction for the speeds/terrain we do).

take the baby.... use some common scence... and have fun.

heres a pic of his baby seat in the heep.

My son has been wheeling with me since he was 1 year old. We have done the Rubicon and every Hammer trail. When he was 2, I stepped up to a Beard Racing "Kids Seat" with a 4 point harness mounted in the center of my rig. Like was said earlier, the noise seems to put him to sleep. His favorite saying is GET IT DAD! or GET IT CAMO! His favorite wheeling buddy is FATKID:D:D. Words can't describe the feeling when you complete an obsticle and your 2 year old starts clapping and yells WOOHOO! GOOD JOB DAD! :D:D:D

This was my wifes idea of how my driving was.

Don't let this happen to you. INVEST IN THE BUMPER DUMPER!!!!

http://www.chad-adams.com/lainie_potty.jpg

ya better teach that girl to keep he pants on when she get into a rig before she turns 16 or your gonna have a real handfull. :flipoff2:

hahaha... 16. Hell, when she turns 12, I'm havin' the doctor install a LoJack system in her arse so I know where she is at all times!!!

my kids wheel with me and love it, too ....... but I gotta agree you should wait until they have developed at least enough strength to keep their own head up. I tried once on a mild trail, and I spent the whole time with one hand on the wheel and the other pinning my kids head down so it wouldn't roll around so much.

You're going to be so busy and tired, wheeling's going to be far down the priority list at least for a little while. It won't be that long till the neck muscles are there, then ...... they love it. If I can only take one, my 2 scrap over who gets to go.

I simply won't take my kids on extreme trails. Too much going on and too much danger. It's not just the obstacles, but all the winching, with it's associated dangers, and all the stoppages, during which they pretty much have to get out, sothey are in more danger, etc. Keep in mind mine are 3 and 4.

Because my running mate has a kid too we try to do 'kids runs' where we bring our kids at the same time on the same trail, that way, you all are dealing with the same issues. If you have enough people with kids, this is a great way to do it, because when you take your children to regular runs you sometimes feel as though you are holding other people up. On these runs we pick trails which the kids are going to like, but at the same time, are not going to be overly dangerous, and are not going to include too many stoppages, which is the kid-on-the-trail killer - they don't have much wait time.

When I do take them on harder trails, like camo says, hard obstacle, they get out of the jeep. I remember spending quite a bit of time getting my daughter in and out of the jeep on one particular muddy hill climb last spring. Normally wouldn't have thought twice about just blasting up there, but when you have a kid, you can't take those kinds of chances, so my buddy hiked down the trail and took her to the top for me while I tried (unsuccessfully) to get out. Again, this is where it helps if your buddies have kids, too ...... but then that's why as soon as you have kids, you start hanging out with other people who do too, because people without them generally simply can't relate to where you're at.

Originally posted by sceep
.... use some common scence...


Did anyone else find this quote really funny?

:flipoff2:

fyi. when my kids were still newborn babies my wife would carry them in her papoose. she would actually walk alot of the trail for the exercise but with a good papoose their is actually very little you can't do with a newborn. think about it. do you think indians sat around watching T.V. or do you think they continued to live life in the great outdoors. :flipoff2: modern life has made people too soft.

Originally posted by camo
fyi. when my kids were still newborn babies my wife would carry them in her papoose. she would actually walk alot of the trail for the exercise but with a good papoose their is actually very little you can't do with a newborn. think about it. do you think indians sat around watching T.V. or do you think they continued to live life in the great outdoors. :flipoff2: modern life has made people too soft.
I remember you saying she got a ticket for that.

Here is my son at 8 on months on Fordyce. We did the day trip thing for his first trip. In at Indian Springs and out the short cut. He slept most of the time but enjoyed it when he was awake.

This is him in the springs before he could even walk

Most of the trails were solo, without the child, for the first year(s). It's only a year or three ( probably less time than it took to build the vehicle). In the greater picture not much of a wait (and you will need the break a solo trip provides, as will the wife, admit it and work it).

When we would go wheeling the wife would walk and carry my daughter through all the large rock sections, and the girl sat in the baby seat with the neck collar and head cushion the balance of fireroad action. These were not Hammer-trail or off-road Race outings, and even a normal 1-hour section would take three hours. This was until she was two and could walk, hold the straps on her own, and talk to tell me if it's too rough (and time to get out and watch with the spotters).

The second child, a boy, gets the same carry treatment, and the trails are still slow. We are better prepared and schedule accordingly (long schedules for short runs).

The daughter now rides shotgun now in a 5-point child seat, asking when we are getting to the "big rocks". The only problem is when she sleeps, as her head/neck can get a workout, even with a neck collar (as children can fall asleep anywhere).
Long trips are still in the future, with some camping training runs planned. Fast runs are fun, but only when she is awake.

If prepared, wheeling with a child is no more danger than having the child ride on the back of a bicycle (and we all see the bike riders with children). The same road (and off-road) dangers are out there. Anyone thinking some trick seat will allow Baja pre-run antics without a risk of damage needs to suffer the blindfold 5-point lesson, with oversize kitchen mittons ducttaped on to prevent grabbing the cage and belt handholds. Maybe place a few cage members close to the head for impressive conditioning ;). Most parents will not need the lesson as the first mild run gets the message across with observation of the child.

Map pockets hold diapers, and wipes make great hand cleaner rags. You learn the advantages and habits of children on the trail, and the fact they can entertain themselves with nothing but dirt.

Asking the question shows you care, and are thinking, the rest is easy.

Happy Trails!

I'm with you guys. I took my little girl out when she was less than a year old. She slept the whole time and I was always holding her head with one hand. Didn't like that little neck pillow. Figured it was too much of a distraction for me so it was not safe for her. Went home. Tried again when she started walking. She slept when moving but was pissed off when we stopped. Waiting till she's at least 3.

Which leads me to a question. Are there any good seats out there for kids? little one is almost 2 now, and since I don't have a back seat anymore, I want to finish my cage and mount a seat in the back for her. The ones I have seen still need a seat to mount on. Kiddie cage mounted seat?

My daughter is turning 1 on Saturday. She loves the Jeep. She wants to play in it all the time. She holds on to the steering wheel so hard, I can pull her totally horizontal and she won’t let go. :D

But, I won’t take her wheeling yet.
A baby’s brain is the consistency of Jello. If you shake it, then you will damage it. Maybe not every time, but it only takes once and I would feel like crap for the rest of my life and her life is ruined.

Camo, I agree that people are getting soft. This is just one area where I can’t factor the risk, so she stays home, or with grandma who lives down the street from the ‘con. :D

She can walk now, so I expect she will tough’n up quick. I’ll take her out pretty soon. I can’t wait!

In our club we have a bunch a kids and I would say most were wheelen before they could projectile vomit. (which isnt pretty in the back of a jeep.) Mine didnt start until about six months.Just secure them good , go slow ,go the the easy routes if you have to .Nothings worth hurtring your kid. But since your asking about this your probably gonna be doing the right thing anyways.:D

Originally posted by jeepinchad
hahaha... 16. Hell, when she turns 12, I'm havin' the doctor install a LoJack system in her arse so I know where she is at all times!!!

BWAHAHAHHA

"intruder alert"
"intruder alert"

then you can go whoop some a$$ :D

Originally posted by camo
fyi. when my kids were still newborn babies my wife would carry them in her papoose. she would actually walk alot of the trail for the exercise but with a good papoose their is actually very little you can't do with a newborn. think about it. do you think indians sat around watching T.V. or do you think they continued to live life in the great outdoors. :flipoff2: modern life has made people too soft.

very good point

Last April my buddy and I were cooking breakfast on the grill in between the circle of motorhomes when I heard a healthy jeep gettin it down the wash. Jim says to me "that's your Jeep." I say, "cool." He says, "That's Brian driving your jeep." I say, "cool." Brian was 10 years old. He has been driving it by himself since he was 5, using the gas pedal at 6, shifting at 7, shifting with the clutch at 8, and now he drives as well as a lot of people 3 times his age. He has a lot of seat time, a lot of training, and obeys dad's rules. He does not have the experience of getting in trouble or fixing it after he does something stupid, but he will, in time.

First off, wait 'till they're not an infant any more...that's common sense.
Second, don't just strap in a car seat with the rear seat belts. Most car seats are designed so the part where the belt goes through is an inch or so from a typical jeep buckle. The problem with that is that the buckle is held by the seat at an improper angle and the strap is not bound by friction from the cam-lock. They loosen up all the time. If you have to use a car seat, use a couple of tie downs on top of the regular seat belts to help out. If you have just a single kid in a car seat, put the carseat in the middle, use BOTH seat belts (one per side) and aid those with some sort of tie straps.
Third, the best solution is the one I went with. I bought the Mini-Rubicons from Mastercraft and put in full 2" harnesses. I was able to build a simple bracket that bolted across the rear inner fenders and mounted both seats high enough for the kids to have a great view yet not be too high to bang their heads on a roll-over. These are way safer than anything else. I like em so much, I even leave em in for competition cause they look so cool!