ok my friend says, to quote him "if it works on the ramp then it works on the trail". i said no way. he likes revolvers. please prove him wrong, i couldnt all by myself :D

Go to an ARCA event and count the number of these shackles you see on the leaf sprung rigs. You simply don't see them much on the better performing rigs.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=301867&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

:rolleyes:

Paul

My friend has them on his truck. They suck they don't work for Sh_t on the trail, they worked as good as ordinary shackles. Didn't impress me at all:p They looked like a good Idea, but so did DDT at the time:eek:

Originally posted by 9V
"if it works on the ramp then it works on the trailYour friends either retarded, or somehow misses all of the redneck-fab link suspensions that flex 1500 RTI but have a ton of rear steer, a roll-axis up near the drivers head, and enough anti-squat to qualfiy as automatic driveline breakers on loose hillclimbs.

Originally posted by 9V
ok my friend says, to quote him "if it works on the ramp then it works on the trail". i said no way. he likes revolvers. please prove him wrong, i couldnt all by myself :D

Well, he is right, that if it flexes on the ramp it will flex on the trail.

However, (and that is a big however) the ramp doesn't account for a TON of things that do matter on the trail.

go out to your truck unbolt the shackles on the right rear and the left front, so the spring is not attached at the rear of the spring. Run the front right up a ramp...

Howd it do? pretty well id bet, but would you take it to the trail like that?

Josh

Ive seen revolvers, they make your rear bounce like crazy when you are truly getting it

Originally posted by BrettM


Well, he is right, that if it flexes on the ramp it will flex on the trail.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Don't roll your eyes at me... :rolleyes:

What I said is absolutely true, it is a simple matter of physics. If a certain load is applied to a spring, it will compress a certain distance. It does not matter whether it is being compressed by a metal ramp or a granite boulder.

Now, I was by no means agreeing with this guy's moron friend, read the rest of my post.

If it flexes on a ramp, it will flex on the trail. Now whether this flex will help you in any way, or if your means of attaining that flex (revolvers) hurt your performance in other areas, that is another issue.

I am simply pointing out that this guys friend thinks flex is everything offroad. If such was the case, he would be right. However, there are many other things that are beneficial offroad and some of them conflict directly with excessive flex gained by gimmicks (revolvers).

Originally posted by BrettM
It does not matter whether it is being compressed by a metal ramp or a granite boulder.


It does matter. Ramp flex does not directly equate to trail flex. A vehicle's weight transfer on a ramp is all to the bottom outside wheel. My truck flexes very differently on a ramp when compared to on a trail as I'm sure most others do as well.

The down side of the vehicle is always (nearly always) level on the ramp. A ramp test is a static condition under no power (ideal non-real-world conditions). It's like testing the vehicle suspension design on paper, and never searching out the limits other than the isolated ramp test case.

What does this mean to the readings (results)? It means the suspension is always at the level design condition. You do not have to factor in the change in the relationship between the instant center of the suspension and the CG of the vehicle on an incline.

Revolvers work well for some vehicles on level ground, and on a ramp, because the increased anti-squat when extended is not too extreme and the power input is low. Get the same combination climbing an incline and as the GC rolls back the anti-squat can rapidly get to the jacking point. You now have the suspension loading, jacking with fully extended revolvers, and then releasing (closed revolvers) with minimal dampening. It become difficult to control the suspension predictably, and hard to drive.

I will not go into suspensio dynamics (search) but the revolvers are a method to quickly gain travel at the expense of anti-squat. It's a tradeoff that loses favor when you apply power and get away from level ground (as opposed to the ramp).

Ramps are great for static testing -- something to agree to (anything else is opinion).

Happy Trails!

So important you had to say it twice? :flipoff2: