Well, I've bought my wife the house she wanted so it's time to refocus and restart my Cruiser project. I'm looking for advice/opinions on how to proceed.

Cruiser in question is the same old FJ62 I've had for 11+ years. Spring over, stock drivetrain, Air Locker in the rear, useless Auburn LSD in the front. Running 35" tires. Built for long-range trips, medium-to-hard wheeling, nothing extreme. Basically, I want to be able to get in the truck, drive 24+ hours to Moab, wheel 4-rated trails and below, then drive the 24+ hours back. This means no beadlocks, no bias-ply tires, no welded diffs. Current crawl ratio (if it can even be called that) is 40:1, which is enough to move the 35's but not low enough to control the truck on steep descents. I'm also forced to take on obstacles at a much higher speed than I want, and while the suspension makes up for a lot, addressing the gearing issue is CRUCIAL!

I have the height to run 37's comfortably, even after lowering the Cruiser a couple of inches (coming up) and I have been eyeballing a set of 37x12.5" Goodyear MT/R's, which I would run on the steel rims currently under the truck.

My tentative plan is to purchase two sets of 4.88 gears and a second ARB, then have someone build me the two diffs (the rear one has a blown o-ring in it anyway). I'll probably also add a set of Longfields at the same time. This would bring the crawl ratio up to 48:1, still pathetic, which leads me to the next expense dilemma, a crawl box.

This is something I've been considering ever since the NP203 adapter for the split case became available, but I hesitate because I hear conflicting reports on the cleanliness of the installation. Harkening back to the purpose I built my Cruiser for, I don't want to have a square-foot wide window to the pavement below, and there is NO way I'm giving up my Tuffy console. Thus, I'm guessing the expense to do this would be considerable. Of course, that's a BIG chunk of cash to spend to end up with about 96:1, which seems reasonable for my purposes. What do you think? The idea of reducing the length of the rear driveshaft at the same time is also very attractive.

I have thought of other options but discarded them:

1. SM420 or SM465, because I don't want to reduce the driveability of the Cruiser and because I would like to keep the overdrive of the H55F.

2. Aussie replacement gears, because they seem like a big chunk of cash for a relatively mild increase in crawl ratio, and because I hear they're pretty loud on the highway.

3. AA Rocbox, Klune-V, because they are not offered for the split t-case, and I've seen the results of running an early 3-speed case under a big heavy wagon. Warden's billet case would be nice, but look at the first sentence of this posting, I don't have an unlimited budget to work with here.

4. Atlas is out because I do not foresee an axle swap in the near or far future; at most I'd add rear disk brakes, and even that is iffy.


I do have a spare US-spec split-case with the 2.276:1 ratio, which I could rebuild and add at the same time as an NP203 or similar option. Do you think it would be worth it? I could end up with 110:1, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it.

Whoever is involved with the Marlin project for a split-case, do you need a beta tester?? Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask.

So what's the word? Should I keep dawdling until Marlin comes out with a split case box (mind you, I could be too old to get into my Cruiser by then), bite the bullet and do the NP203 conversion, or just keep my fingers crossed and wait till other options or the split case become available?

I hope that y'all don't mind me asking these kinds of questions, I realize that the forum is much more extreme-wheeling oriented and I hope I'm not offending anyone by saying I don't want to obliterate this one-of-a-kind Land Cruiser. Those of you that I've wheeled with know that I am not afraid to take on tough trails and big rocks, but at the same time, I know the limitations of the big wagon and have no desire to chop it/bob it/tube it/exo-it. This truck will never be a trailer queen, she's gotta keep earning her keep by delivering me safely to the trail and back, no matter how far!

Thanks in advance!

I agree you will/can be old and frustrated before the Marlin or AA stuff is available for a split case.

THere is nothing wrong with the 203 adapted, all of these modifications can be done cleanly if you have the right person doing it.

Bring that beast up here to my boys at Sunray and they can fab anything you want to make this work and to make the shifters look good.

Also, they can set up your ARB stuff and gears.

Do the 97:1, that is how low I was with the 2f before I went to the LT-1 and Auto and I was PLENTY low with the 42's!

You will be fine with the 37's.....

COngrats on the house!

I agree with Nolen... I'd do the 203 doubler if I had to do it all over again. You can fab a transfer case linkage that fits through the stock openings to control both cases if you don't want another stick in the middle of everything... Luckily you don't have to worry too much about driveline length on the wagon.

Since princess serves double duty as a daily driver, I'd have to second the notion that you don't want an SM465/420. I have one and bascially have a 3-speed tranny. Luckily my 2F has EFI and thus a little more power than typical, or I'd never be able to haul its fat butt (and 38 gal of gas) around. That being said, I did manage to cruise at 75mph/3000 rpm on the way back from Gilmer this past weekend with no problems... Still haven't computed gas mileage! :)

We need to get you out with the LSLC group!

hey henry sounds like your on the right track, my first choice would be marlin, just cuz its toyota, but like you said,,,, so,,, i would go 203 as well, just like nolen said, it can be as clean as one wants to make it.
p.s. i'm in a similar boat as you not wanting to chop my 55 up and make it a hardcore rig, though its been on its side already, i think if i had lower gears it wouldnt happen.
oh and howz the ozzie expedition comming along? any new info? need me to do anything to help? i'm still there with you lets do it.

My rig also see's double duty, and will never be an extream trail rig. I drive it back and forth to work and around town 40+ miles a day. as far as tannys go I went with the Sm420 with a AA Torque Splitter and a late model 3spd T-case.(the late model has a soft case like the 4spd so it does not crack as easy) As a result I have 67:1 low and 27% overdrive, at 65mph I am turning 2200rpm's and I get around 15 mpg, I also run a SB350 but I think that the mileage would be about the same for the F motor and you have the body length to make it all fit. One of the really nice thing of this setup is that I have 16 forward gears to choose from and 4 reverse, kinda crazy eh?

-Scott

about cleanliness....check out jack rice's setup...painted and everything!!:eek:

6.34:1 NV4500, US split case, 4.88's gets you to about 70:1.

I'm not necessarily saying this is the way to go, just something else to think about. With this setup, you sell your current H55 and case and your 4.11's and make up a big chunk of the cost.

:)

i am thinking 5.29s in the diffs with a set of 37s will work out pretty good and be very cost effective. you already have a ff rear don't you. i had to grind mine pretty good [with the s/f rear]but it held up to some severe wheeling. i would do that first and see how you like it. with the 5.29 and a set of short 38s my highway rpms were allmost the exact same as my stock tires and gears. mike

Henry -


Glad to see you are gtting settled in...

You will definitely want the OD of the H55F if you go to 4.88's even with the 37" tires.

Go 203!

Jim

Before choosing the NP203, call AA and Marlin and find out their timeline for the split case crawlers. Although only a guesstimate, it is more concrete info than you currently have. From past history, I would say that, unless you are willing to wait another year or two, the 203 is the ONLY way to go.

What is the latest on the Marks Crawler that bolts on behind the transfer case? BJ was talking about it a few months ago. Perhaps AA will show it at Sema this year? It is another option, if you are willing to wait.

http://www.marks4wd.com/Cruiser-Crawler.htm

Marks Crawler Box Pics:

http://www.marks4wd.com/images/MFK1550%20on%2080%20tc.jpg

I was going to suggest the marks crawler box also. from what BJ (Mr. Roids) posted they were going to have it ready for the SEMA show. I have 2 passes to the SEMA show so I hope to see this box (the only real reason I'm going). I would wait for this thing to come out before buying anything. Bj said he was told they would cost like $2000 aus which means that you could probably get one shipped here for probably $1200 us & have no drive line modifications & end up around 150:1

if your going to go with 4.88's you might want to consider 5.29's & get a full floater from specter for $389 this would save you from the dreaded broken rear axle rollover syndrome :eek:
i

on another note. I run a tbi350, 700r4 split t-case & 4.88's

this gets me about 33:1 which seems pathetic. I spent most of last weekend wheeling it & that auto make the 33:1 feel like 100:1. Total control on the rocks. I should have some pics soon if my wife ever gets them developed.

Originally posted by sixty

on another note. I run a tbi350, 700r4 split t-case & 4.88's

this gets me about 33:1 which seems pathetic. I spent most of last weekend wheeling it & that auto make the 33:1 feel like 100:1. Total control on the rocks.

There is a "doubler" phenomenon discussed in the world of auto trannies, that the torque converter slip effectively doubles the first gear ratio (which is 3.2 to 1 in a 700R4, IIRC). Therefore you effectively have 66:1, which is not a bad crawl ratio.

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser


There is a "doubler" phenomenon discussed in the world of auto trannies, that the torque converter slip effectively doubles the first gear ratio (which is 3.2 to 1 in a 700R4, IIRC). Therefore you effectively have 66:1, which is not a bad crawl ratio.

yeah I'm familiar w/ the doubler effect of the the t/c but this seems more than doubled. I don't know if its because its a well built 700 but to me it seems ALOT better/ smoother than 66:1 .I wheel my brothers 420'd fj40 all the time w/ 67:1 it has far less control than mine on the rocks.
I thought 700r4's had like a 3.05:1 first?

The only time the auto sucks is on down hills but brakes work good enough for me, although I do need rear discs.

Henry, you know what I think.

Talk to Gary about Tom Boyd's doubler set-up. I haven't been inside his 60 since he put an NP203 under it, so I don't know what changes were required to his floorboard, tranny hump or shifters. Tom's away for work this week. His email is mistababu@attbi.com.

I did have a hole in my floor for a while after I did the NP203, mostly because of funding or the lack thereof. After a while, I gave the truck to Butch Lewis and he made a nice tranny hump that covered the gearboxes nicely. If I had that to do over again, I'd probably do a 1" body lift. I think that's all I needed to clear the NP203. The shifters work fine. I did have to put a beefier detent spring in the NP203 box to keep the shifter from popping out of gear. (I have 2F - SM465 - NP203 GRB - '78 tcase.)

The NP203 works great off-road and I'm just completely used to its road manners. The truck as a whole is a big slow beast, so it's hard to qualify just the gearbox behavior, while driving on-road.

One difference between a doubler drivetrain and a non-doubler drivetrain is the extra spinning mass and extra lash you get from an intermediate gearbox. I would bet it's the same with the marlin doubler setups. Acceleration is a little slower, shifting is a little slower, and you can feel the extra gearbox. It's not a problem.

You've seen my shifter configuration. I've got three little forward-backward tcase shifters where I once had one. I'm using caterpillar backhoe shifter boots and Butch made me a nice little "box" on the side of the tranny hump to accomodate the shifters and boots. The shifer linkage is now in its third revision. It's mostly made up of old pieces of tcase linkage + three-on-the-tree linkage. It's pretty clean, really. I still haven't marked which shifter is which, so I have to remind myself for the first five minutes of every trail run. Once I figure out how to do the labelling right I'll do it. (I just don't have any free time.)

I think you should do the NP203. You can always sell it if you don't like it. If you get an excuse to visit CA, Tom and I will take you on a trail run and you can try the two trucks.

Morgan

go atlas and dont worry about the diff being centered .
it really doesnt matter if you have a centered diff to run an atlas .
you wont have the weight that goes with a doubler they are stronger and about the same price once everything is factored in .
plus i will give you a screaming deal if you want .
not to mention you have front or rear drive selectable . you cant do that with the doublers

alan

So you CAN run an Atlas with a non-centered rear diff, and the Atlas is available for a split t-case????

Thanks for the replies, everyone, I REALLY appreciate it! Consensus seems to be that the NP203 is the way to go; Since I have to tear into the rear ARB and install a front one, buying two sets of 4.88's is not going to break the bank.

Gunracer1, I don't have a FF, mine's a stock SF out of a 1983 FJ60 (I'm pretty sure). The stock Dana 60 with the goofy offset pumpkin is long gone. I don't know if I want a Cruiser FF from SOR or MAF, too many reports of *munched* FF's, and besides, then I'd have to add the cost of rewelding perches for the SO....

Shit, I'm a pretty simple man, but it's at times like this that I wish I was independently wealthy and had a good shop in the back of the house! :)

Henry:

The rear DS in a 60 is long enough IMHO to be able to run at an angle from a centered output Atlas to the offset Cruiser rear end without compromising the DL angle (ie excessive DL angle). Do the math with the various options - you may find the Atlas is cost competative when you add in all the extra stuff you need to do when installing a doubler. You also dont suffer the extra drivetrain noise, weight and rotational mass issues of a doubler. This all assumes that AA makes an adapter for the 5sp tranny to the Atlas.

Andy

I don't know if they make an adapter to mount an atlas to a 19spl. trans & the atlat-tc website does not list a 19 spline input so you would probably have to go withan nv4500 to stay similar to your h55.

As for 4.88's Charley rupp of Chimney Canyon 4x4 had the best price on arb's & yukon gears a few months ago when I ordered them.

I think Specter inspects all the full floaters before selling them 7 there has got to be someone in texas willing to weld a couple of perches on for free :D

For about $40 in tools you can learn to setup your own gears & save $$$. its pretty easy.

Shit, I'm a pretty simple man, but it's at times like this that I wish I was independently wealthy and had a good shop in the back of the house!

you mean like Medusa :D

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
at times like this that I wish I was independently wealthy and had a good shop in the back of the house! :)

!Como no, amigo!
Con dinero, todo es possible.

The harder problem is figuring out which of all these options is best even if you did have unlimited money. The cost difference isn't all that great among all of them compared to the cost of doing it over again. "Tried and true" should count for something.

Exactly, Pin Head, which is why I decided to ask the collective wisdom (or is it insanity?) of this forum. I am FAR from having unlimited or even adequate funds, but after a 3-year hiatus I would like my Cruiser project to get back on track, and I need to know where/when to spend the money.

Between the NV4500 and the H55F, I'd prefer to stay with the H55F, I feel it's a lot smoother and I don't want to get into the adapter issue unless I absolutely have to.

The NP203 is the most appealing option for me *as long* as the installation can be done cleanly; I'm willing to pay extra for a very nice install, that's just the way it is on this truck. I know it's hard to understand, heck, it's hard to explain, but I have a bond with this Land Cruiser that is very special. The Princess has been the single point of stability in almost a decade of upheaval in my life; she's been with me through thick and thin, brought me home countless times, lived through periods of bonanza and some pretty tight ones, across two continents and five different states. Fawk it, I can't explain, the take-home point is that this is not a truck to be hacked or gutted, as long as I can afford it I will do things the right way.

I like the Marlin box option but the delay could be frustrating.

I respect your basically stock cruiser drivetrain setup. I would seriously consider the gearmaster gears. I have researched these and last quote was around 900.00 US delivered. This is my logic:
PROS
1. Stock drivetrain configuration remains. No new supports, gaskets, levers, holes, etc. Your truck looks stock cruiser.
2. No driveshaft modifications.
3. Quick install. Remove the case, grind the one area, replace.
4. If Marlin comes out with the doubler, you have a good stock case if you want and you could always unload the crawler gears at a minor loss. Or you could use a stock toyota reduction box and the split case with low gears.

CONS
1. Not that great of a low range increase, especially for MOAB.
2. Reported noise, you could always rig some temporary noise batting over the case for the road.

I do not know the 203 costs, the marlin costs are high, and what the hell is the Marks thing.

Your truck is pretty damn nice. You might want to go the redneck express route and buy a beater wagon, chop the top, 1 ton it, put a 205 doubler, and drive to Moab in a convertible. I hate to see your rig on its side.

Damn, I talk too much

im not a big fan of the 203 swap i have seen 2 of them fail morgan's was one could have been the liljohn install not sure the np203 is a bullit proof case but is super heavy . the other pic i saw of one had problems with the coulper between the 2 cases
by the time you get all the parts for one you will be as much if not more then an atlas . that being said i scanned through the atlas dealer catalog i have and saw no option for the toy 19 spline hence going to a sm 465 or 420 cheap and bullet proof
im not a big fan of the nv4500 and their fiber syncros
the a/a rocbox only comes in 10 or 16 spline .

go atlas or go home

alan

Originally posted by fj junkie
im not a big fan of the 203 swap i have seen 2 of them fail morgan's was one could have been the liljohn install not sure

Whatchou talkin' 'bout, Willis? :confused:

My 203 has been fine since the install. Well, there was some wacko problems with the install, but I did it with John and neither of us knew what we were doing. It always worked, however. Nothing failed. Gary re-did a lot of the install when he did my spring-over. Now it's sano.

Morgan

Alan, I don't want to run an SM420 or SM465 on a Cruiser that's going to see long highway trips and semi-daily-driver duty, hence the original dilemma.

KMAN, I considered the Aussie gears but decided against them for several reasons:

1. Gear reduction vs. cost ratio unfavorable.
2. Relatively unproven in terms of high-mileage.
3. Having to remove material from the t-case "shell" sounds a little sketchy to me.
4. NOISE.

Furthermore, losing a few inches or more of rear driveshaft wouldn't be such a bad thing on my beast!

Without an Atlas and/or AA Rocbox option for the split t-case, it's back to the existing NP203 conversion kit and/or waiting for Marlin. Thanks, people, you've helped me narrow it down, I think I'll take care of the 4.88's, ARB and Longfields first, then hope that split case options become available in the meantime.

morgan didnt something inside your set up come loose and eat a gear or something i was at gary's when you were fixxing it .
i think it was an input shaft or something ? correct me if i am wrong ..

alan :confused:

Originally posted by fj junkie
morgan didnt something inside your set up come loose and eat a gear or something i was at gary's when you were fixxing it .
i think it was an input shaft or something ? correct me if i am wrong ..

alan :confused:

The nose cone on my 4spd tcase came loose and I lost all my 90wt on a drive from Placerville to Oakland. Cooked my tcase. When Gary separated the cases to see the damage to the 4spd tcase, he saw the AA shaft that replaces the NP203's main shaft was all boogered up by the old worn Toyota tcase input gear. The NP203's input gear was also toast. He replaced both and the AA shaft and rebuilt both cases. Found some roller bearings in the bottom of the 203 case that John had let drop when he had it apart, too.

I should have thought about rebuilding the 203 and 4spd case when I did the doubler, but I was on a budget and I thought I could get away with skipping it. Had to buy a new AA shaft and learn a lesson.

Just wear, no failures yet.

Morgan

This problem would be alot easier for me to sort out. I'd pull the 3f out and replace it with a late model TBI 350/4l60E or 4l80E, mate it to the Toy case, then toss the 4.88's in, and haul ass! Now it'll be even better for highway use and better geared for off-road. Not to mention no more clutch! Not to mention you'll get better gas milage and way more power.

Henry I've seen you many times advise people not to build a 60 if their objective is to do hard core trails. We all know why. You are looking to spend $4k plus so you can do a few more trails or the ones you do now with more finnesse, if you have no desire to do the harder trails, fine, go for it.
Build a beater 40 and hammer down, there are a few rigs in LSC that have 4k or less and these guys have more fun than most of us.
Then you are back with another problem.......Princess won't tow a 40 well as is......not the distance you want to go....then you hve to buy a diesel PU tow rig and a trailer.......my head's hurting....too much thought..........
Just don't let someone paint Princess so nice you don't want to take it and F' it up:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
Butch

Thanks for the thread Henry. It summarizes my thoughts as I save for the upgrade. I'm still at least six months away and hoping the "potential" options become real options.

I have rode in Tom's FJ60 it was awesome. THe NP203 is a REAL option. I could avoid a lot of damage by going that slow. My 2f, h42, split case, 4.56s requires pushing the big wagon through the rocks with way too much clutch and/or speed.

So NP203 is my likely option. But, this thread has raised a couple of questions for other options.

1. The Alta$$, strong for the heavy wagon. Offset axle is doable it's just the Tranny problem. I'm curious about the down side of "nv4500 and their fiber syncros." Is the SM465 be the next choice? Others?

2. An Auto with the Atlas, hmmm. Strong right? Maybe I need to think more about about this. I have no problems wheeling the auto FZJ80. In fact, I like it better. I guess my only concern is reliability.

BTW, I've got the same basic plan for Knuckles as Henry's Princess. I like driving 400 miles to the trailhead, wheel the Rubicon, and drive home with the windows up, AC blowing cold and tunes blasting. :flipoff2:

Again, thanks for summarizing the state of FJ60 crawler gears.

Originally posted by texican

Build a beater 40 and hammer down, there are a few rigs in LSC that have 4k or less and these guys have more fun than most of us.
Then you are back with another problem.......Princess won't tow a 40 well as is......not the distance you want to go....then you hve to buy a diesel PU tow rig and a trailer.......
Butch:

I am with you on this one - it gets very expensive to build up an extreme rock crawling wagon that you want to keep decent for a DD and long haul vehicle. Wagons are great for their size and hauling capacity, especially for the expedition stuff that Henry is famous for. However, you cant beat a 40 for cost effective extreme rock crawling. I dont think you have to build a 40 so extreme that you need to trailer it - although I gotta say those 4 hour drives to the trail would be nice in a cushy tow rig, as opposed to listening to the hum of the Swampers and whine of the tranny:D

Andy

Henry,

Send me a PM with your address, I have a house warming gift for you and the Mrs.

I'm still debating the same issue as you. I'm thinking the 203 solution would be the best. I've also thought about linkage. I've been thinking that an electric solenoid would be a neat way to engage it. If it ended up getting stuck for some reason you could get under the rig and beat on it. I mean the solenoid would not see daily use, so I think it would be fine. If they can use them on field trucks dragging potatos out of the field in 3 feet of dust and dirt they must be reliable enough.

Later!

Eric V.

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser

Butch:
I dont think you have to build a 40 so extreme that you need to trailer it - although I gotta say those 4 hour drives to the trail would be nice in a cushy tow rig, as opposed to listening to the hum of the Swampers and whine of the tranny:D

Andy

I drove to and from the trails, back in the late 80's early 90's always a bit cautious while wheelin' so I did not break my ride home.
Drove home once on the front axle, very interesting trip.
No thanks, too old now, and spoiled...........I will drive the 60 and do mild wheelin' though:flipoff2:
Butch

Originally posted by texican
"Henry I've seen you many times advise people not to build a 60 if their objective is to do hard core trails. We all know why. You are looking to spend $4k plus so you can do a few more trails or the ones you do now with more finnesse, if you have no desire to do the harder trails, fine, go for it."

I *do* want to do harder trails, not INSANE stuff, but being able to do Pritchett Canyon without going too fast would be nice.

"Build a beater 40 and hammer down, there are a few rigs in LSC that have 4k or less and these guys have more fun than most of us."

Nolen warned me about this, I just don't think I'm ready for two trucks dividing my budget!

Then you are back with another problem.......Princess won't tow a 40 well as is......not the distance you want to go....then you hve to buy a diesel PU tow rig and a trailer.......my head's hurting....too much thought..........

Yeah, that's out of the question, there's not going to be a tow rig in the equation, I can forget about that one.

Just don't let someone paint Princess so nice you don't want to take it and F' it up:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I can tell you've never seen the Princess, she looks good from about 30 feet, then you get close and the trail wear is evident; I paid $550 for a cheap paint job three years ago and have been thinking of hosing it down with another color, but it will be a cheap job. Got any reccomendations??
Butch [/B]

I want to explain something. There is a different between tough wheeling and extreme trails. I am not interested in extreme trails, be it in my FJ62 or any other Land Cruiser. I can't say exactly why, it may be genetic/cultural conditioning, too many years spent in the middle of the Amazon, where the goal was to return in one piece. In any case, that's not what I want to do.

What I DO want to do is be able to wheel the Princess as hard as I used to before the spring-over. You see, for years I wheeled the old girl as hard as I could, but always craved better clearance, more articulation, bigger tires and better approach and departure angles. Now I have all of that, and even a better ride quality, but it came at the expense of gearing (couldn't do it all at once, too much $$$$). The result is that I haven't been able to wheel as much as I used to, I don't have the same control over the truck, especially on steep descents and technical obstacles. A taller truck that has to go faster on a technical trail is a formula for disaster!

I need to go SLOWER on the trail, and I need gears to achieve this. Once this is taken care of, I'd like to go on the Rubicon, return to Pritchett Canyon, Martinez Canyon, and a handful of other trails that I'd like to tackle again.

I've been wheeling for 16+ years and have always accepted the risk of what I do. The harder I wheel, the more potential for damage/injury there is, and I can live with that. But I also have to gain control over as many variables as I can, and I need to be able to slow the bitch down on technical stuff.

Does any of this make sense???

Originally posted by wngrog
I agree you will/can be old and frustrated before the Marlin or AA stuff is available for a split case.

THere is nothing wrong with the 203 adapted, all of these modifications can be done cleanly if you have the right person doing it.

Bring that beast up here to my boys at Sunray and they can fab anything you want to make this work and to make the shifters look good.

Also, they can set up your ARB stuff and gears.

Do the 97:1, that is how low I was with the 2f before I went to the LT-1 and Auto and I was PLENTY low with the 42's!

You will be fine with the 37's.....

COngrats on the house!

NOLE is about right, its gunna be ages, for everything except the marks gears!!

this thing is a weapon, and will be ideal, depending, on test strength and $$ its still very experimental

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
Alan, I don't want to run an SM420 or SM465 on a Cruiser that's going to see long highway trips and semi-daily-driver duty, hence the original dilemma.

KMAN, I considered the Aussie gears but decided against them for several reasons:

1. Gear reduction vs. cost ratio unfavorable.
2. Relatively unproven in terms of high-mileage.
3. Having to remove material from the t-case "shell" sounds a little sketchy to me.
4. NOISE.

Furthermore, losing a few inches or more of rear driveshaft wouldn't be such a bad thing on my beast!

Without an Atlas and/or AA Rocbox option for the split t-case, it's back to the existing NP203 conversion kit and/or waiting for Marlin. Thanks, people, you've helped me narrow it down, I think I'll take care of the 4.88's, ARB and Longfields first, then hope that split case options become available in the meantime.

the marks gears have been changed, there is case grinding required BUT i think as a sacrifice it is not much, the noise is minimal and they will hold up over long periods, you cna get under or overdrive styles for high range too!! :D

also the cruiser crawler is a full AWWWN option, but still not much additional info released yet!! :(

Originally posted by BJ On Roids


the marks gears have been changed, there is case grinding required BUT i think as a sacrifice it is not much, the noise is minimal and they will hold up over long periods, you cna get under or overdrive styles for high range too!! :D

also the cruiser crawler is a full AWWWN option, but still not much additional info released yet!! :(

maybe I can get some more info @ SEMA if it is truly going to be there. :p

Yeah, keep us posted, boss, I'm chomping at the bit. Of course, we'll have to figure out how to circumvent Advanced Adapters bloody markup, I vote we enlist our Aussie brethren on this board, I'd rather pay a commission to a fellow Cruiserhead!

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
Yeah, keep us posted, boss, I'm chomping at the bit. Of course, we'll have to figure out how to circumvent Advanced Adapters bloody markup, I vote we enlist our Aussie brethren on this board, I'd rather pay a commission to a fellow Cruiserhead!

I don't think we need to enlist anyone...... Bj with Roids has already volunteered :D :flipoff2: :D LMAO!!!

If they do get that thing ready by when they say they will (yeah right) it would probably years before advance got their act together on... We'd definately need some support from OZ!! from what I remeber w/ the gears there were Aussie venders willing to ship to the states so that would be a good option also.

to gain control over as many variables as I can, and I need to be able to slow the bitch down on technical stuff.

Does any of this make sense??? [/B][/QUOTE]
yes...........
Henry, before this weekend,Iwould not have understood you as much as now.
I took the ebay 60 and slept in it instead of a tent....sweet! I rode with Gary in the 502 wagon, and watched as he took what is possibly the nicest wagon of this style (82-90) in the world thru Clydes Ravine at sick angles and watched everyones jaw drop.
I also rode with Dave Perry as he crawled along with the newly installed 465, he could not stop smiling!!
There is something insane and fun with taking what most percieve as "mom's grocery getter" place they don't seem to belong.
The crack about the paint was poking fun at me.....I have turned a 40 which at one time was the baddest rig in LSC into a trailer queen, its so nice I just can not bear the thought of messing it up and it ain't no fun.........so winter will bring new trail rig for me.
Suggestions for paint..........some of the neatest homebrewed jobs I have seen are innovative rattle can camo jobs, some that use different colors or patterns than we normally see.
I owned and drove Zebe for a couple of years and while opinions on it's paint are varied greatly, I loved it, and all kids loved it, I could drive into any parking lot, and kids would be dragging their parents to look at the "Zebratruck"
Bottom line, it's your truck, you know it, love it, so do with it what brings a smile to your face.:D
Butch

Henry, if you can stand one more opinion from a lame a$$ 40 driver that doesn't know what he's talking about........I have an opinion for you.:)

I consider myself very similar to you in my approach to wheeling and what i want to do with my truck. I like being able to run some HARD trails but nothing insane. You KNOW that my truck is still my daily driver and I drive to every trail run. Because of those couple issues, I feel I can give some reasonable feedback that might solidify some decisions you may have already made.

First off, I agree that the 203 doubler sounds like the best approach and I'm sure you can arrange a clean install that you're happy with. You're right to stay away from a SM420/SM465 with the amount of driving you anticipate doing. I will say that I love my SM420, and I think it's actually pretty nice on the road. But it's nothing like an H55F. You'll really miss the overdrive if you get rid of it. But, on the trail, the 420 is sweet.

As far as gearing is concerned, I'm at 82:1 and you're talking about running similar type trails that I run. I feel I have plenty of gearing with 37's. I felt TOTALLY in control on thr Rubicon and everywhere in Moab. If you get anywhere around 90:1 you'll be happy.

Get the 37's. I've had mine for about a month now and I love them! There wasn't as big a difference as I expected when compared to the 35's. Even with my 2F (and 4.88's that appear to be in your plans too) I feel like I can move the tires just fine. Granted it's a bit of a dog driving over Spanish Fork Canyon on the way to Moab, but I can live with that.

As for axles. I've heard the stories of FF's and one of my good friends, Andy Widner who is a fabricator at All Pro switched to a FF in his 40 and kept bustin' stuff. He went back to a SF and hasn't had any problems. He's wheeling a lot more extreme stuff than you will too. I'd stick with the rear axle you've got.

IF an ATLAS will work and you can keep your offset rear end, that sounds like a great option as well.

Lastly. You REALLY need to take a trip out here to Utah and spend some time with Wasatch Cruisers. :)

Take care man, sounds like things are going pretty well for you. It's good to hear. Say hello to Kate.

This may be a stupid question-- but are you sure you can use a 203 doubler between an H55 and split case? For some reason, I thought the H55 used the t-case for oiling the overdrive -- and perhaps putting a 203 doubler between them would cause a problem.

Obviously, normal US 60's don't have these problem becaue they don't have the overdrive.

This might not really be an issue-- I don't know the details of the oiling issue. But it was something that came to mind as I read this thread.

Jared

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SJPitts
[B]This may be a stupid question-- but are you sure you can use a 203 doubler between an H55 and split case? For some reason, I thought the H55 used the t-case for oiling the overdrive

It would be a damned expensive way to find out that it did.........seems like I remember some thread about this on the LCML a long time ago also...............:confused: :confused:

Butch

Originally posted by texican
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SJPitts
[B]This may be a stupid question-- but are you sure you can use a 203 doubler between an H55 and split case? For some reason, I thought the H55 used the t-case for oiling the overdrive

It would be a damned expensive way to find out that it did.........seems like I remember some thread about this on the LCML a long time ago also...............:confused: :confused:

Butch
Shows on Mudrak's web site that the doubler is designed for both the h42 and h55 - I think Jerry Niccols is aware of the oiling issues for the H55:rolleyes:

http://www.mudrak.com/products/60doubler.html

Adam Tolman wrote:

Henry, if you can stand one more opinion from a lame a$$ 40 driver that doesn't know what he's talking about........I have an opinion for you.:)

*Adam, I value your opinions, always have!*

I consider myself very similar to you in my approach to wheeling and what i want to do with my truck. I like being able to run some HARD trails but nothing insane. You KNOW that my truck is still my daily driver and I drive to every trail run. Because of those couple issues, I feel I can give some reasonable feedback that might solidify some decisions you may have already made.

First off, I agree that the 203 doubler sounds like the best approach and I'm sure you can arrange a clean install that you're happy with.

*That's the thing, can I? I've yet to see a really clean install, although I'd love to see some recent shots of Morgan's setup (hint, hint)!*

You're right to stay away from a SM420/SM465 with the amount of driving you anticipate doing. I will say that I love my SM420, and I think it's actually pretty nice on the road. But it's nothing like an H55F. You'll really miss the overdrive if you get rid of it. But, on the trail, the 420 is sweet.

*I've driven several FJ40's with an SM420 and I agree, it's a great trail transmission, but for what I want to do, I think it would be a step backward...*

As far as gearing is concerned, I'm at 82:1 and you're talking about running similar type trails that I run. I feel I have plenty of gearing with 37's. I felt TOTALLY in control on thr Rubicon and everywhere in Moab. If you get anywhere around 90:1 you'll be happy.

*I think you're right. I'm still going to go to 4.88's soon so I can move the big tires without making the clutch a disposable one, but with the H55F, a US-spec split-case and the 4.88's I should be at 55:1 and a doubler would, well, double that!

Get the 37's. I've had mine for about a month now and I love them! There wasn't as big a difference as I expected when compared to the 35's. Even with my 2F (and 4.88's that appear to be in your plans too) I feel like I can move the tires just fine. Granted it's a bit of a dog driving over Spanish Fork Canyon on the way to Moab, but I can live with that.

*I'm going to as soon as I have the 4.88's, right now I couldn't leave the parking lot with 37's, I'd be so outside the powerband that it would be pathetic. I'm also interested in doing this because the trailer's two 35's have pretty much given up the ghost and I want to run two of the tires currently on the Princess on Junior, leave another one as a spare, that means I only have to buy five 37's.*

As for axles. I've heard the stories of FF's and one of my good friends, Andy Widner who is a fabricator at All Pro switched to a FF in his 40 and kept bustin' stuff. He went back to a SF and hasn't had any problems. He's wheeling a lot more extreme stuff than you will too. I'd stick with the rear axle you've got.

*I might just figure out a way to run disk brakes; after witnessing Hunter Arend's violent rollover of his SO FJ60 (after a rear axle broke and came completely out of the housing, tire and rim with it), I'm a little paranoid, and 37's are BIG tires for a heavy rig like this.*

IF an ATLAS will work and you can keep your offset rear end, that sounds like a great option as well.

*Please send donations to:

Henry Cubillan
12440 Alameda Trace Circle #1722
Austin, TX 78727

Lastly. You REALLY need to take a trip out here to Utah and spend some time with Wasatch Cruisers. :)

*YES!! I'm definitely going to, my friend Alex (LEGO on this board) and I are planning a trip for next spring, the plan is to go up to Durango, drive from Durango to Moab (all offroad) and then combine with a few days at CM for old times sake, then swing down and see Monument Valley, maybe a little Zion too. Old Man Cubillan is going to come on this trip, it should be interesting to get his take on "US-style wheeling"! I miss the desert, Central Texas is gorgeous but there is very little to explore, almost everything is private land and trespassing ist verbotten!*

Take care man, sounds like things are going pretty well for you. It's good to hear. Say hello to Kate. [/QUOTE]

*Same here, how's Michelle doing? Bjornn ready for college yet?*:flipoff2:

If you wish not to send donations to the designated address, an alternate address has been established.

Here it is:

Alex Ulivi
Attn: Cruiser funds
20640 Hwy 62
Morris, Ok 74445

I'm sure Henry won't mind :D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

This is going to be a new one for old man Henry:cool:

That would be "Old Man Jorge", and you better not call him that to his face, he's got the best aim I've ever seen!

Also, please come up with your own novel method of raising funds for your Cruiser project, you moocher! :)

Should be an interesting trip, a squad of Venezuelans and a South African navigator...the stuff of legends!

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
Should be an interesting trip, a squad of Venezuelans and a South African navigator...the stuff of legends!
Maybe this time we can take the correct turn at 4AM in the morning, instead of driving an hour in the wrong direction! Stupid map! :D

Cruiser content: Bought sawzall blades and cut off wheels today. The 40 series cruiser is going under the knife this weekend!