Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

This week, the TOTW is going to talk about snorkels for your rig.

Home made will be the emphasis, but pre-fabbed ones (is there more than one out there?) are allowed too.

Plans
Ideas
Thoughts
Pictures
Design
blah blah blah

I dont know that they are nesecary.Except mabye in like alaska I have seen pics of those wackos croosing mammoth rivers.I know I have never been in a situation where I needed one.Most people I think would just need a splash guard on their air intake to keep from getting water when they hit mudholes.

i have one but it just comes out of the hood 2" mainly so i can see the intake and know if i am in trouble.... also i think the engine runs alot better with the colder air (not engine temp air)

I agree with GPN Family, snorkels are not needed for the majority of wheelin around here, either. One thing I see alot of people do, however, is throw on an ARB and then fawk the fender up on a tree or other trail hazard. I have driven a few HMMWV's with a fording kit installed, and when the switch is turned, the intake and the vents are routed through the stack. Don't try this on a gas rig, though, because a gas motor creates vacuum through the intake, and it would suck your diff/tranny/whatever into your motor:eek: ! Also, if you are going to run the intake to the moon, better extend the exhaust, too. Then you can cross DEEP without worrying about pulling water through the valves or having too much backpressure to run. I personally don't see a need for having pipes run to the sky, but if it's you, roll with it.

Well I agree that they aren't needed that much for wheeling. I put one on my TJ for 2 reasons: 1. to free up space under the hood 2. to get cooler air into the throttle body.

I saw some results where someone tested stock, open filter under the hood, and snorkle using thermocouples. The snorkle consistantly delivered 30-40 degree cooler air to the throttle body (cooler denser air- more power). Well having a 4 banger I tried it with a homebrew setup and it does seem to have helped. I have more peddle left while going up some hills here, and can maintain speed/accellerate where I used to lose speed.

Big drawback though, I mounted mine on the driver's side (shorter path) and it is loud as hell. Sounds like I have straight pipes on the jeep now (and the sound comes from the snorkle input right at my door.

I used 3" ABS pipe (had to reduce it to 2" at the Throttle body, still plan to swapp out for a 4.0 TB one day). Put a cone filter on the end, and took a small plastic trash can and cut it shorter and mounted it over the filter to keep the rain out. Doesn't look too bad for a home brew. The intake is above the mirror and even with the roof.

Robert

I had one on my YJ before I blew the motor. I had a pre-fab one though(ARB) I noticed a slight performance gain. I used mine alot, playing in the rivers and mud holes around here. I routed my breather linesup to the top of my cage. It worked out, I never hydrolocked my motor.

Originally posted by Doc Savage
Well I agree that they aren't needed that much for wheeling. I put one on my TJ for 2 reasons: 1. to free up space under the hood 2. to get cooler air into the throttle body.



I freed up a bunch of space on my 2.5L by swapping an electric fan for the clutch fan & removing the fanshroud. I took the intake tube from a 4.0L & used it w/ a cone filter on the end. I've got the air tube pointing to the front of the Jeep, just behind the radiator.

There's all kinds of space in there now, but most of it isn't useful... Just gets the intake off the motor. I'm going to put an ammo box or something where my stock airbox was & store a few tools or tow straps there.

I think they are totally unnecessary unless you do this a lot...
http://home.earthlink.net/~jdrios/AA_0768_002.jpg



Jes

Even then a snorkle is only half the issue...

;)

:D

Originally posted by Jes
I think they are totally unnecessary unless you do this a lot...

Jes

...a lot .. im thinkin EVER

another thing to keep in mind, if you are just looking for protection from watter splashes in mud puddles etc, watter wont pass thru a k+n air filter..

you are wrong on that one! i have had water get in though my K&N...i was just splashing around in a little mud whole.

I have seen that some snorkle manufactures also advertise their snorkles to "suck the clean air." They figure that the intake is above the normal car air and exhaust and is able to grab cooler and cleaner air.

Heres a cool like of a guy with a Unimog testing out his homebuilt snorkle. http://www.unimogvideo.com/tyson.htm

Later.

Ken S.

Originally posted by T1H5_TA3
another thing to keep in mind, if you are just looking for protection from watter splashes in mud puddles etc, watter wont pass thru a k+n air filter..

hmmm......when's the last time you cleaned your filter?splash it with the water hose next time and see what happens. :rolleyes:

-Scott

I have a Safari Snorkel on my XJ. Honestly cant say whether i noticed an increase in MPG or Power as i never drove this XJ before the buildup.

I'v dipped into water holes and stream crossings where water would wash over the hood as i entered. The XJ's intake is behind the drivers headlight...if it werent for the snorkel i can honestly say i may have hydrolocked.

$200 is a cheap alternative to a blown motor in my opinion.

I also want to get rid of the stock airbox to free up some space under the hood. I'm thinking about getting rid of the air tube too. I think I'm gonna try to fit an old style pancake filter housing from a bone yard right on top of the TB. Then I can connect the filter housing to the cowl with a short piece of flexible hose. Nice and neat without a bunch of hoses running all over under the hood. There may be some performance losses associated with this type of setup, but I think they would be offset by the gains from the cooler intake air. Anyone else try something similar?

Okay,

I am going to get flamed for being a newbie, but ...

Snorkels are good for two reasons: 1) wadding and 2) for extremely dusty environments.

Most have pointed out #1, but if you have traveled on semi-improved roads in third world countries (particularly Africa) you will see the utility of #2. Getting your air intake elevated even three feet above the dust stirred up by oncoming traffic and of course traffic in front of you can really cut down on cylinder wall scuffing.

Snorkels are very popular overseas, but probably of limited use here in the US of A

Busto

You can try some UNIMOG Snorkels from your Daimler-Chrysler Drealer, they are pretty good and easy to install with some making by your self ! I am using them for my XJ .

OK I'll bite...what part #, or application would one ask for at the DC stealer?

I am UNIMOGilliterate.

MJ

i plan on putting a snorkle on my 5 for driving through water
i will ditch the mechanical fan and replace it with an electric fan
i will probably put an exhaust stack on it too

i am going to make mine myself



jacob

The majority of the rigs that I see snorkles on,no more need a snorkle, for ANY of the above mentioned valid reasons, than my girlfriends POS Volvo wagon.Have any of these rigs done all the other things needed to utilize the benefits of a snokle,fawk no.Raised all there breathers as high as possible,raised and/or water proofed the computers and fuse block,the distibutor,the gas cap etc. etc.

My rig is NOT set up for fording deep water,above the seats,so I treat these potential situations with great caution.Up here in the PNW we see alot of deep water but i still don't think it's something to put a snorkle on for unless thats yer gig,driving through deep water.

I do not believe that you need a snorkel up past your head buy any means unless you plan on taking your scuba equpment with you (which I think would make for some great video) but I do believe that moving your stock intake higher and farther back are good ideas. Even if you are fording water that is only 2.5 feet deep you must first enter the water and most of the water crossing that I have went through that were even 1+ feet deep were not buy any means gradual decent they were in the 45degrees if not vertical entrance and that is where the snorkel will be very beneficial as apposed to the original stock position. If you were to drive down a hot tub in Moab even and it had 1.5 feet of water most would be screwed not because there intake or ignition is not high enough to ford 2 feet of water but because at that angle your intake is only 1.5 feet of the bottom. Again that is where most stock intakes are. Also bringing out from under the hood is also an improvement if for no other reason then because of the colder air giving that little bit more power.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/cd7ecceb/bc/CAD/w.jpg?bctGV59ALCjpVhMk

this is a more low profile (less tree issues) settup

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/cd7ecceb/bc/CAD/snorkle-001.jpg?bctGV59AtQaGbcKs

also your computer, ignition, axles, transmission need the same attention and ideas or your wasting your time and money on a snorkle.

I'd agree with hardcore. I used to turn my air-filter around backwords on my old Ford so the intake was pointing to the firewall. This kept the splash out from the fan, tires, etc. I could ford water mid engine deep without trouble and did often. I have been playing with the idea of relocating the intake to the top rear of the firewall in my YJ. That should keep it running until the ignition shorts. I've been swimming in ice cold water looking for anchor points too many times to intentionaly drive into deep water anymore. Sometimes it's better to follow and stay dry and warm, let the newbie's check the water depth :D .

I would say most in my area do it for protection more than the ability it gives you. They just use it as a safeguard since a lot of the stuff we have in michigan is mud and water holes and sometimes you have no clue how deep it is untill you are in it. I have raised all my breathers just to be safe and I waterproofed the distributor cap just casue if you even get a good splash of water on it, it will obviously make the engine run like crap. Anyway if I was going to do a snorkel it would probably just be one from arb since its cheap and simple compared to some of the other options and if you are gonna do one you might as well make it pretty high so you have no worries.


I also like this snorkel set up but I just can't justify the cost.
http://www.michiganjeepers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tjtech&Number=66291&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

In my old cj with a 350 I had a hei distributor with a tube that ran I through the firewall so that I could spray wd-40 in to the distributor cap before I would even make a water crossing. But again that was mostly for splashing and just in case not so that I could drowned myself and my jeep tiring to cross the Mississippi.

Where can I get a dual snorkel sutup like this? I am concerned about air flow to my 500 hp 383 in my postal, I dont want to choke it. Might need to go a little higher for some of the rivers here.

Any ideas?:confused:


http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/cd7ecceb/bc/CAD/w.jpg?bctGV59ALCjpVhMk

this is a more low profile (less tree issues) settup

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/cd7ecceb/bc/CAD/snorkle-001.jpg?bctGV59AtQaGbcKs

also your computer, ignition, axles, transmission need the same attention and ideas or your wasting your time and money on a snorkle. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your E-mail address keeps kicking my E-mails back to me please try E-mailing me at home SteveJChapman@charter.net and we can work from there

I really like that design for the cowel snorkle. Does anyone know where I could get maybe just the canister for the filter. I could most likly peice together one on my own. I just couldn't figure out the filter part and the canister is a good idea.

Originally posted by Bgcj5
I really like that design for the cowel snorkle. Does anyone know where I could get maybe just the canister for the filter. I could most likly peice together one on my own. I just couldn't figure out the filter part and the canister is a good idea.

The one from this (http://www.michiganjeepers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tjtech&Number=66291&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) write up is from here
http://intenseperformance.com/

I'm happy with my Safari snorkel. It's saved my motor four times!:rolleyes:

My ARB saved my @ss with water crossings over the hood but there is a fine line to what you can push witha 4cly toy got it up to the winsheild and stalled :eek: water didn't come in till I stopped movein then it filled up fast:( took 3 weeks for the computer to dry out and her to start again:( still love it just got to know what yours can do( oh ya it took me 3days and about 50 crossings to stop her what a way to go) lots o fun at 3am in clear texas river headlights lighted up the river looked kinda cool wish i had a good pick of it... oh ya it did help the power on mine at highway speeds like a ram air.:beer:

Originally posted by Norm
http://www.michiganjeepers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tjtech&Number=66291&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

I really like this setup. Looks very functional and not gawd awful aestetically. It kinda reminds me of these vacuums that I was almost suckered into selling during university...Filter Queens...damn sexy vacuums. I got some free pizza out of it anyway.

One question before I start hacking up my jeep:
What is the purpose of the cannister? Is it just to hold the filter in and keep it dry? Couldn't I just recycle my stock air box and run it to the cowl?

Originally posted by LynchMob
One question before I start hacking up my jeep:
What is the purpose of the cannister? Is it just to hold the filter in and keep it dry? Couldn't I just recycle my stock air box and run it to the cowl?

i bet yopu could but it would not be as water proof as that one spent alot of time workin on mine and water still got in( but it did sit under water for all most an hour before we got her out)

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa67ba02/bc/Ruby+Lake+2002/Im000288.jpg?bcWVC89Axs4DdX4L

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa67ba02/bc/Ruby+Lake+2002/Im000290.jpg?bcWVC89ALoANXO1p

Here is my snorkle on my 302. It is all 4" PVC pipe. Works well. At the top I used a filter I picked up from Napa. Works real good. Sucks the air from the bottom. So there is really no chance of getting stuff in the motor. Unless you dive into water deeper than the top of the snorkle. Cheap, and works good. There on the body is a roof cover for a pipe. I got it at the local hardware store.

Well I have had a few close calls in the past when I was crossing some creeks and rivers, so I decided to home brew one for myself.

1st problem: is that on an XJ the air box is almost below the front drivers side head light so it is very easy for water to get in.

2nd problem: I was not about to spend $200 OR $300 on a safari snorkle, when I can make something myself that works.

3rd problem: is I have started to design an exocage for my rig and the safari snorkle would be in the way, so again have to make one.

So I did.
It cost me about $30 to build.
I got some PVC pipe and some HVAC flex pipe, and a Sami Air box.

Here is what it came out like.

with hood closed:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Cherokee_snorkle.jpg

with hood open:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Cherokee_snorkle2.jpg

showing the pieces used for top part of snorkle:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Dcp_0001a.jpg
http://www.custom4x4.com/Dcp_0003a.jpg

Ken C

Damn why web server just went down, just pics will not show up for a while, sorry]

I have a Safari Snorkel on my XJ. Honestly cant say whether i noticed an increase in MPG or Power as i never drove this XJ before the buildup.

I'v dipped into water holes and stream crossings where water would wash over the hood as i entered. The XJ's intake is behind the drivers headlight...if it werent for the snorkel i can honestly say i may have hydrolocked.

$200 is a cheap alternative to a blown motor in my opinion.
Do you have a pic of your xj. I have one and im putting a 6.5" lift on it an i want to put a snorkel on it to see if it helps

yeah i dont run an air filter either...(CYLINDER WALL SCUFFING???)

ask and you shall receive. heres a link to the write up I did on JA on my Home made snorkel
http://www.jeepaholics.com/support/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=45640

and a few more shots of it
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/92greenyj/DSCN0208.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/92greenyj/Fuel%20Cell/DSCN0551.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c321/mark32725/snorkelside.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c321/mark32725/DSCN0274.jpg

http://www.americanjeepers.com/articles/7/1/Custom-Hummer-Style-Snorkel

decent setup, that doesn't use a garbage can....... one day when i get around to it i plan on doing something similar only im going to use a Caterpillar style pre filter (intake portion you see on the hood of a backhoe), if i remember correctly that whole canister was only 40-50 bucks....

I wish someone from Australia would pipe in(no pun intended)!!
Just about everyone there has a snorkel(even the soccer moms have snorkels). You can even buy a brand-new Land cruiser off the lot with a snorkel and Ute bed already installed!

Just got back from there and here are a few pics of what I saw.

I've got to tell you, it was infectious seeing that many snorkels day after day! As if that wasn't enough pressure, there was an ARB store in every town we drove through! So yes, I caved in and bought one. :flipoff2: I hauled that sucker around for 3 weeks! It was in a large box due to the tube length, so it was a good place for the wife to stuff her souvenirs in.
It was easy to install and looks pretty damn cool. A little silicone on the plug wire ends and 2"wide (home-made) rubber-band around the distributer cap and I believe I can take on a bit of water now...:p

http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3A72%3Anu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3A728nu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3A723nu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3B%3C%3B9nu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3A72%3Bnu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B3%3B%3C%3B%3Anu0mrj
Here's mine.:flipoff2:
http://images.snapfish.com/34635%3C233%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E9%3A9%3E878%3E WSNRCG%3D32334%3B%3A%3B45756nu0mrj

Anybody know where to get a plenium to fit on a Motorcraft 2150 to start a cold air intake????

I posted my homemade snorkel on the hardcore tech forum a couple months ago, and got nothing but flame for almost 3 pages, as it was not, in some people's opinion, a hard core subject. It was then moved to the newbie section. Its pretty ironic that its now a Topic of the Week!!!!!!!!!!!!:shaking:

Well, I guess if people are interested here is the link to my webpage:
http://www.themuddybucket.com/snorkel.htm

If you dont care, then just simply keep your mouth shut, and we will all be happy.:)
Nice Job on the web site James.On your last trip to the cabin why did your rig die?Did you take on water through the intake or was it something else? Trying to learn from your mistake. Cool footage BTW.
-Kerry

Are you referring to the picture on the snorkel page? That was the first time I tried out the snorkel, I found that the K&N air filter I am using is slightly taller than the stock one, so when I put the round top on the air intake, it didnt quit seal all the way. As soon as I hit the water, the engine immediatetly took a big drink. I had to take the plugs out and drain all the water. I solved this problem by expoxing a piece of rubber around the edge of the top of the intake, so it sealed better with the top. Seemed to work pretty good, as the next time through the engine didn't die. Afterwards I took the top off, and the inside was dry.

If you own a TJ and dont need to cross water deeper than the windsheild Here's a mod I did to mine.

I moved the filter into the cowl area. I put an outerwares prefilter over the air filter and any water that does get in there runs right off and down the drain.

Here's a copy of the writeup I did on another site about a year ago:

I wanted to move my cold air intake into the cowl area so it actually gets cold air and to keep mud and water out when crossing deep puddles but the filter I have was too large so I found a smaller one that would not restrict flow. It’s a kit for a 92-95 Honda Civic (available at any fine Walmart for $49.95).
http://www.protec-systems.com/int3.jpg
I cut a 3.5” hole in the cowl.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int2.jpg
I started making room for the filter with a bfh. It took a lot of beating in this area to make room for the filter.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int1.jpg
I had to relocate the ground wire that goes to the battery to this bolt because I cut my hole where the old one was.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int4.jpg
I cut the stock intake tube and new one to length where they will join together. The Honda kit comes with the right size adapter boot to fit.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int5.jpg
The stock intake tube needs to be chamfered and smoothed on the inside to smooth the airflow, as it is much thicker than the alum. tube.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int6.jpg
Here’s how it looks when installed. It’s a close fit but has plenty of space for air to enter. The wiper linkage needed a little bending for clearance.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int7.jpg
It even added a little bling to the engine compartment.
http://www.protec-systems.com/int8.jpg
The blue hose for the pcv came in the kit also
http://www.protec-systems.com/int9.jpg
It took about 3 hours to do and works like a charm. During normal driving you don’t really notice its there, but when you stand on it you can definitely hear it!
I added a Truckmaster design scoop to the cowl vent To draw in the air. You might want to add a scoop like this but face it backwards to help keep out mud and splashing water.
http://www.ehi-inc.com/scoop.jpg
Since its not directly under the grills the rain water runs right next to it
When driving in the rain it will be like free water injection! (cool dense air is the best)
I have added an outerwears prefilter over the air filter. You can run a water hose over it and the water runs right off and down the drain tube in the cowl area.

I have been running this setup for almost a year in all kinds of weather and it works perfectly. The filter stays nice and clean and when the weather gets really hot out I dont loose any performance from sucking in hot engine air.

Did you watch the long video? (you mentioned good footage) Thats the one where I killed the engine.

I posted my homemade snorkel on the hardcore tech forum a couple months ago, and got nothing but flame for almost 3 pages, as it was not, in some people's opinion, a hard core subject. It was then moved to the newbie section. Its pretty ironic that its now a Topic of the Week!!!!!!!!!!!!:shaking:

Well, I guess if people are interested here is the link to my webpage:
http://www.themuddybucket.com/snorkel.htm

If you dont care, then just simply keep your mouth shut, and we will all be happy.:)

The irony is, this is a TOTW from 2002.:flipoff2:

I posted my homemade snorkel on the hardcore tech forum a couple months ago, and got nothing but flame for almost 3 pages, as it was not, in some people's opinion, a hard core subject. It was then moved to the newbie section. Its pretty ironic that its now a Topic of the Week!!!!!!!!!!!!:shaking:

Well, I guess if people are interested here is the link to my webpage:
http://www.themuddybucket.com/snorkel.htm

If you dont care, then just simply keep your mouth shut, and we will all be happy.:)

The irony is, this is a TOTW from 2002.:flipoff2:

Did you watch the long video? (you mentioned good footage) Thats the one where I killed the engine.

Yes it was the long Video,you had the snorkel already installed and killed it when you hit the deep part just before the river bank...It was cool that the guy recording didn't freak out and stop shooting,then he panned over and showed the Jeep full of water.That must have been a slow recovery with the hike and come-a-long extraction....It would have been nice to show(in the video)what the damages were.

I have an old 'glass hood on my flatty now to clear the air cleaner, and I'm looking at making an old Willys hood into cowl induction (already has a 12" x 16" hole cut in it) and running a pan to seal around the air cleaner to the hood. Kind of a semi snorkle, along the lines of being able to see if I'm getting into trouble.

Only damage was water in the cylinders and a crushed in inspection plate. When I cranked the engine it sounded like gravel in the cylinders.

Well I have had a few close calls in the past when I was crossing some creeks and rivers, so I decided to home brew one for myself.

1st problem: is that on an XJ the air box is almost below the front drivers side head light so it is very easy for water to get in.

2nd problem: I was not about to spend $200 OR $300 on a safari snorkle, when I can make something myself that works.

3rd problem: is I have started to design an exocage for my rig and the safari snorkle would be in the way, so again have to make one.

So I did.
It cost me about $30 to build.
I got some PVC pipe and some HVAC flex pipe, and a Sami Air box.

Here is what it came out like.

with hood closed:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Cherokee_snorkle.jpg

with hood open:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Cherokee_snorkle2.jpg

showing the pieces used for top part of snorkle:
http://www.custom4x4.com/Dcp_0001a.jpg
http://www.custom4x4.com/Dcp_0003a.jpg

Ken C

Damn why web server just went down, just pics will not show up for a while, sorry]

Ken C,

Where did you get the cage & cap from? That looks like the ideal setup for a homebrew snorkel. I like it!!

Later,

Buddy

I am building a snorkle for my CJ5 & I am not quite sure how & where I am going to put a filter.
I am using 4"PVC directly from the carb .
Any Ideas?

http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=508&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02111.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=509&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02210.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=510&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02211.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=511&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02310.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=512&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02311.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=513&u=13114822)
http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/13/11/48/22/img02312.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=514&u=13114822)