First off I know the SAS vs IFS thing has been beaten to death, but most of those rigs are rock-crawlers or just wheelin rigs. I am looking for comfort, simplicity, ease of repair, and parts availability. I have built up my 96 Tacoma on tons and 42's for wheelin and I recently put a 1979 Dana 60 in my 97 Dodge Cummins on leafs, so I am not unfamiliar with leaf spring SAS's and am very happy with both these trucks. Here are a few pics.

I'm not deathly afraid of IFS, just because I'm deathly afraid of getting stuck. IFS lightens up the front for excellent ballast you just can't achieve with SAS. The traction on un-even ground is a plus too.

That's just my 2 cents though and I've been traumatized by getting stuck way too many times.

So I have always wanted a first gen 4runner and finally got one. 1988 V6 5spd, 225K, tach dash, sunroof, and charcoal gray which I really wanted. I specifically bought a 3.0 V6 because it is easy to swap a 3.4 into. I tuned it up, did the front brakes, thermostat and radiator, swapped out the bent and broken leaf springs for a good set of stockers with Dave's Of road 1.5" lift shackles, cut out some rust and built a rear bumper.

I had to sell my beloved and extremely reliable and economical 1990 2wd to fund the 4runner, but it went to a friend and I might buy it back someday. So I bought a 1998 rolled Tacoma for $800 with 157K 3.4 V6, 5spd and new timing belt at 149K. I parted the truck out, so far am at $977 and I still have the motor, tranny, wiring, and numerous misc pieces.
Some things I have:
-3.4 motor and harness
-front solid axle from a 1985 4runner
-4:88 geared IFS front third
-a few sets of factory rear leaf springs for RUF swap
-a good line on some used hi-steer kits from some friends going to six shooters.
-a pair of Dave's Off Road front shock hoops
-some nice 15x8 baja style rims
-some 16x7or8 rims
-and an inclnometer!!

I'm not deathly afraid of IFS, just because I'm deathly afraid of getting stuck. IFS lightens up the front for excellent ballast you just can't achieve with SAS. The traction on un-even ground is a plus too.

That's just my 2 cents though and I've been traumatized by getting stuck way too many times.

Thats what I am debating. I originally planned on the SAS but am starting to lean back towards IFS. The IFS on the 4runner is showing wear though, 1 torn CV, bad ball joints, etc. I built my Taco in numerous stages from coil-over ifs to a Dana 44 and now the Tons. I love where it is now, but am going camping/wheelin this weekend about 4 hrs away and am towing the Tacoma because it is not as street friendly as it used to be and I hate watching the Iroks that are about $450 apiece wear down.
I want the 4runner to be a good daily driver that can get me to work, the ski hill, the river and be capable of Hell's revenge/poison spider/Rubicon and a week camping in the woods. My plan is:
-4:88's
-elocker rear, open front,
-rock sliders
-ARB style front bumper with receiver mounted winch (maybe the bumper off my Taco)
-3.4, 5spd R150 , single chain drive t-case
-33x10.50R15's or 285/75R16's
-A/C and Cruise
-stockish parts for suspension whether its IFS or SAS. I don't want coilovers, link suspension, heims, hydro steering etc. If I break down some where I want to be able to get most of what I need at a junkyard or over the shelf at a parts store.

So what does everyone think should the IFS get rebuilt and beefed a little IE: ball joint spacers, diff drop bracket, etc or do I grab the gas axe and throw in the Solid axle

How do Ball joint spacers work?

I think the big question is which one are you going to be able to get parts for when you are out in the middle of nowhere and which is easier to work on.

If you are in the USA or Canada, I'd say it is pretty much a wash. You'll be able to get whatever parts you need in a week.

If you were thrashing around down in say southern Mexico, I'd want it closer to stock so I'd have a better chance at getting parts locally. Toyota exported that generation of truck all over the world in huge numbers. Numbers much larger than anything from Detroit can claim.

Just my dos centavos though.

nothing that cant be welded will break on a toy ifs keep it and beef it. nice pics

nothing that cant be welded will break on a toy ifs keep it and beef it. nice pics

so are you saying the plastic is tougher than the steel? ;)

I think the big question is which one are you going to be able to get parts for when you are out in the middle of nowhere and which is easier to work on.

If you are in the USA or Canada, I'd say it is pretty much a wash. You'll be able to get whatever parts you need in a week.

If you were thrashing around down in say southern Mexico, I'd want it closer to stock so I'd have a better chance at getting parts locally. Toyota exported that generation of truck all over the world in huge numbers. Numbers much larger than anything from Detroit can claim.

Just my dos centavos though.

I think both the factory toyota solid axle and IFS would be pretty easy to source parts for throughout the world. Realistically this truck probably stay in the states for the foreseeable future. If I ever get the time to go back to Mexico it would probably be in the Dodge, though Canada is less than 50 miles away the way the bird flys.

nothing that cant be welded will break on a toy ifs keep it and beef it. nice pics

Really! I was sure you would lean toward the SAS. I am thinking the IFS might be nice on roads like the North Fork or Thompson River Rd.

so are you saying the plastic is tougher than the steel? ;)

Actually I do have a plastic welder.

I think both the factory toyota solid axle and IFS would be pretty easy to source parts for throughout the world. Realistically this truck probably stay in the states for the foreseeable future. If I ever get the time to go back to Mexico it would probably be in the Dodge, though Canada is less than 50 miles away the way the bird flys.


Ummm I dont think thats true. The US is the only country in the world except maybe Canada where 86-95 toyotas are IFS.

SAS the thing. Its more simplistic, stronger, will ride better then the tbar IFS. Not to mention better traction with IFS is a crock. Sorry but IFS gives 1.5-2in of travel each way if that. It doesnt take anything to lift a tire and lose 25% of your traction.

Ummm I dont think thats true. The US is the only country in the world except maybe Canada where 86-95 toyotas are IFS.

SAS the thing. Its more simplistic, stronger, will ride better then the tbar IFS. Not to mention better traction with IFS is a crock. Sorry but IFS gives 1.5-2in of travel each way if that. It doesnt take anything to lift a tire and lose 25% of your traction.

Good point, though I am pretty sure a lot of other countries got the same torsion bar IFS just in later years. I don't know if you ever read 4WD Toyota Owner's magazine, but they are currently doing an interesting IFS vs SAS project with and 86 and an 84 runner, and they were really liking the IFS for trail running.

Actually I do have a plastic welder.

a BIC doesn't count. :D

I would run this personally:
http://www.blazeland.us/Page_3.html

There is a some discussion of it over in the toy section. The people running it seem to really like it.

I would run this personally:
http://www.blazeland.us/Page_3.html

There is a some discussion of it over in the toy section. The people running it seem to really like it.

That's the exact kit they used in the 4WDTOM article and they too were pretty impressed with the ride of the Blazeland kit.

Good point, though I am pretty sure a lot of other countries got the same torsion bar IFS just in later years. I don't know if you ever read 4WD Toyota Owner's magazine, but they are currently doing an interesting IFS vs SAS project with and 86 and an 84 runner, and they were really liking the IFS for trail running.

Nope we were the only country or at least one of the few to get torsion bar IFS under a toyota. When the rest of the world went to IFS on the Hilux's they went in 96 with the change to tacoma and went straight to coils.

As far as beefed IFS, why? So you can waste a $1000 dollars and find out you still have weak CV shafts and terrible wheel travel.

the only prob i ever had with the ifs trucks and the mild wheeling exploring i used to do in the late 90's was the idler arm...failed over and over with 32s and a torsion bar reindex for lift...sometimes i didnt notice the break until i was back, cruising at 70, down the highway and the truck wanders all over and needs way more steering input

the SAS is more reliable and the aftermarket made it way stronger(highsteer, beefer shackel and spring mounts, etc)...fancy shocks and air bumps can make a leaf sprung toyota go pretty fast in the bouncy stuff! plus you can get rid of all those balljoints and worn out A arm bushings

Well I have been distracted from "The Tortoise" as I affectionately call the 4runner because this happened to my Dodge:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908166
But I did do some trading and selling/buying. I need to drive this thing about 1200 miles round trip to a wedding in Wyoming in early Sept. now that the Dodge is out of commission. I traded a complete V6 4:10 geared rear axle for a 4:88 geared V6 third member. I also bought a bunch a SAS parts from a guy on another board who changed his mind. I am getting a Marlin hanger, greasable bolts, nuts, bushings, rear shackle and spring hanger, extended brake lines with mounts and clips and heavy duty steering box mount for $165 plus shipping.
So SAS it is. I am going to toss the 4.88 third in the back for the road trip and not worry about 4wd. Eventually I think this third will end up in the front diff and I'll find an e-locker put in some 4.88's and throw that in the back. I also traded an old Tacoma coil spacer lift for a 4:10 HP non-elocker third with bad side gears and found an old Tacoma TRD e-locker that I have with a broken side gear. Does anyone know what side gears will fit a HP landcruiser third? 4cyl, 6cyl, ??? what about e-locker can you get replacement side gears , does any other third work?? I also started on some rock sliders. There will be a 3rd leg towards the front and I still have to mount the driver's side. The sliders are .188 wall 1.5"x3" with 1.5"x1.5" legs, .250" 4x4" frame gussets.

Well my deal on SAS parts fell through, my other trucks keep breaking down and I need something to drive this winter so the Tortoise got a little love. I finished my sliders, got new 33x10.50R15 BFG KM2's and installed a set of factory Toyota 4.88 diffs. I almost put an Aussie locker in the back but a different friend needed it more and I would rather spend the $ on an E-locker down the road. The tires and gearing are perfect for my needs, drive great, has much better power and I predict better fuel mileage. I also cheepo lifted it a little with cranked t-bars, a leaf from a 2wd spring pack mixed in with the stockers and a set of 2 inch blocks in the back.