I've been kicking this around for a while, and the thread over at: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90436 triggered a further discussion. I figured it deserved its own thread...

So what's the best budget 9-inch buildup? Mark Williams haws a lock on the high end of the spectrum -- Currie is more affordable but still bucks.

Obviously, you'd start with a nodular iron case. You can yoke the thing with just about anything. Upgrade bearings are available (with pinion supports to match) as are upgraded axles (right up to 40 splines).

Just not sure that the extra 3/4" of ring gear buys that much in a Dana 60,

Randii (battening down the hatches, I know this is a 60's crowd)

Here -- let me get this out of the way...

:rolleyes:BUILD A DANA 60!:rolleyes:

Randii :shaking:

Man, people see one way and that's it. No matter what the circumstance, build a 60.

The ring gear in a 60 is bigger in diameter than a 9". But a 9" ring gear is a lot thicker.

The Ford 9" can take whatever you throw at it. You just have to build it to suite. Same as a 60. Except that the 9" is A LOT LIGHTER, less expensive, has huge aftermarket support and has a ton better ground clearance.

-Jack

you gotta love the low a$$ pinion on the 9" too right?

Originally posted by randii

Just not sure that the extra 3/4" of ring gear buys that much in a Dana 60,



Donno either Randii. But after pricing out a 9" with a strange nodular 3rd and a daytona nosecone etc etc etc it was cheaper to build a 60

Low pinion, sheetmetal housing and it's used in golfcarts... Need any more reasons not to use it? Plus, Currie ( :flipoff: ) made too much off of us for years from the 9"...

Here's a pic of the 9" we just put in my 85 runner. Yeah, the pinion is low but it's tilted up at about the angle you see in the pic (CV rear d-shaft), so it's up outta the way pretty good. We also welded on some extra metal on the bottom for strength. Just a 1/8" piece of strap, don't get excited about all the loss of clearance. :rolleyes: It's from an old Lincoln (78 or so). 63" wms-wms and comes with disc brakes. It's not really low bucks with a new R&P, full spool and 33 spline Currie shafts, drilled for 6 lug. Matches nicely with my front 44, which is 64 1/2" wide... :D:D Oh, and a new yoke from Jesse at High-Angle, which allows me to use the Toyota driveline. Sweet!!!!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/misc/9inch2.jpg

Glenn... I am lookin at the 9 inch myself. What kind of bread you got wrapped up in it... :D give me the break down...:eek:

Yeah, the pinion is low. Nuthin' gets by you guys... :rolleyes:

Any comments on budget buildup? Y'know -- like the subject says? :p

Randii

OK I will take a stab at this....
On a budget and ya want a 9"....I imagine cheapest rout is a nodular factory case " if you can find one" then a quality pinion support...spool and 33-35 spline shafts seem eaily done...Actually alot like that one in picture a few posts up. I imagaine given it's a sheetmetal housing ya could easily shave it... and no question a back truss would be a good plan...again easily done..still spect end to end same cost as a built 60 with the added expense of the third member upgrade... but with a slightly cheaper locker/spool.

NoRM
not sure this helped at all

yea i like it you can get a full spool for $150 35 spline shafts for $300 and a nodular case for $200-$350.. weld on a little gusset and your there..
i like the gusset on this one:
http://performanceunlimited.com/photos_staff/img48.gif

Rebel

That looks like the bottom of Randy Thomas's Bronco....lol
I dunno but if it was mine I would back brace it... thats what the 9" truly needs. On the bottom like that seems a bit grader like in the rocks and assorted other ground clearance situations.

NoRM
who has wheeled with Randy many a time.

Originally posted by P|n-BaLL
Rebel

That looks like the bottom of Randy Thomas's Bronco....lol
I dunno but if it was mine I would back brace it... thats what the 9" truly needs. On the bottom like that seems a bit grader like in the rocks and assorted other ground clearance situations.

NoRM
who has wheeled with Randy many a time.
good call notice the P/U text :D
i like his cuz it lets the mud/sand flow through or at least in theory. yea a back brace never hurts as well. one of these days ill get off my bum and do mine like that, but ill sit around and wait til i bend my housing first so i get good and pi$$ed :cool:
peace
Jw

Originally posted by Rebel

good call notice the P/U text :D
i like his cuz it lets the mud/sand flow through or at least in theory. yea a back brace never hurts as well. one of these days ill get off my bum and do mine like that, but ill sit around and wait til i bend my housing first so i get good and pi$$ed :cool:
peace
Jw

LOL Good call on text......actually I didn't notice it *still half asleep*

I still dunno if I like a bottom truss...a back truss I believe does the same thing for the ridgetry and provides no clearance issues. But thats just me...but I have seen bottom trusses like that drag half an acre of mud out of a hole when weeds and sticks n stuff get caught in webbing...

NoRM

Lets see.
"the pinion is too low" So what, rotate it just like 80% of all rearends used off road- people that run a non rotated pinion are few and far between.

"it's a weak sheetmetal housing" sheet metal it is- and easy to weld on, shave, gusset, or plate. FWIW I used to jump my jeep at pismo and other places all the time, when I had a 44 rear it bent. Went to a 9" and never had one problem with the housing- but the 44 front still bent. Yeah, weak.

"They cost WAY more than a 60" Maybe- ONLY if you find a rare 35 spline 60 to start with. Face facts- they're both gonna need rear discs (oh wait, some 9's come with em :flipoff2: ) gears, bearings, lockers and shafts. Price it all out- the 9" stuff is cheaper.

Back on topic, sheeple.
Yank one out of a truck with 31 spline shafts. Or a van if you want a wider axle. Go grab rear discs off a conti. and leave the junk yard for less than $250. Gear it and lock it and run it. I have a few friends who run 40's with the junk yard setup and have never had a problem. Rockstomper Scott runs 44's doesn't he?
Break a 31 spline shaft and throw in some alloys if money is tight. If not get a new locker and 35 spline shafts and don't look back. You can get an oem nodular at the junk yard but I don't think they're much better than regular- they're prone to cracking at the extra pinion bearing support. Daytona pinion supports are pretty easy to find and are only about $13, compared to the new one for $100, and will be identicle unless you go aluminum. I went nodular and 35 spline so I could have added piece of mind- but do I really need it? Who knows but I never worry about the rear and I don't have to carry spares.

Originally posted by Gozuki
Low pinion, sheetmetal housing and it's used in golfcarts... Need any more reasons not to use it?

I have seen a few 35 spline 60's in lawn mowers- does that also make them un desireable??? :rolleyes:

If you give your money to :barf: currie :barf: you probably deserve what you get.:eek:

If a 60 is better then why do they Use 9" in Nascar and most other forms of racing. ( drag racers ) ( desert Racing )

Dumb question: Are you guys just talking about the 9" for the rear? Is there a front 9"? If so, how does it stack up against a Dana 60 front? If not, what would you put up front, given a 9" rear?

Morgan

there never was a factory 9in front... :barf: currie :barf: sells them, and Tom LeBlanc sells them also, and he's been running a 9/44 front for as long as i've know with 6.50 gears and as far as i know he's only damaged locker's... and that's from axle failure...


the thing i like about the 9in is the wide variety of gear ratio's, as deep as 7.33 :D

yes i know the 60 has 7.17's

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aggro
Lets see...
I was trolling for a response from you, Brian... you've done this recently. Guess I coulda just used email, but this gets more thoughts in the process... and I do love to hear about that low pinion. :rolleyes:

From what I can tell, you CAN spend more than a 60... or not. Using Currie prices to compare to home-built 60 prices is silly. Compare a Currie 9 and a Currie 60... or a homebuilt 9 vs. a homebuilt 60. My calculator keeps coming up cheaper for the 9.

On a similar? note, I found this while parsing MW's site:
http://www.markwilliams.com/new/images/Internal_Pump.jpg
Internal Differential Pump We now offer an internally mounted pressure lube pump that will help overcome oil starvation problems. This compact pump option scavenges lubrication from the bottom area of the axle housing and feeds the front pinion support and sprays a stream on the contact area of the ring and pinion. The pump mounts to a special Mark Williams thirdmember case. There are no external lines or drives to reconnect when changing a thirdmember.The pump can be installed on existing cases with some machining modifications. Part #57466 $432.50
Pricey, but pretty cool. I'd love to see a closeup of how this works -- my guess is there's an inlet on the pressure flow side of the ring gear. Cool!

Randii

Depending ON the budget on very small budget... i'd pick up a detroit off ebay for under $300 then pick up a used 4.10 gear centersection.... then get 3-4 31 spline shafts from the junk yard.... pick up some lincoln disk brakes and for bout $700 or so you got a good 9" with spares. Now u want more you can upgrade as you please...... if you ever get a chance compare a D60 30 spline vs a Ford 9" 31 spline.... The 9" is a LOT thicker shaft the only advantage the 60 has is the FF to keep the weight off the axles and you can do that upgrade to the 9" as well

just my $.02

Originally posted by randii
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aggro
Lets see...
I was trolling for a response from you, Brian... you've done this recently.
Randii

Nah, I've been running my 9" for years- but I did just recently shave it!!:p

you cut the ends off and throw the rest away ;)

I agree the 9 inch in most any honest comparison is cheaper. I have used one with 31 splines alloys in my EB and have never had an issue with it. Worked it pretty hard too. But, is it cheap and worth it or not? I say yes for many rigs...but not all.

The question I have is about the housing. Sure the housing is weaker. But, I've been wheeling for over 10 years on the Rubicon/others and have yet to see someone snap the housing of a 9"...or any housing for that matter. Axles/ujoints go first... But, has anyone seen a well maintained 9 inch housing snap?

Also, is the Toy rear housing stronger than the 9" HD housing which is 3300LBS? I thought they were close? If so, I have never seen a Toy housing break either. Yes, rig is lighter, but most are running 38.5's...

PS...you can get a Rev Rot 9" using an 8.8" ring gear and get better pinion clearance than...well...I think anything. Yes, it costs more, but frankly for all the YJ's and rear short shafted jeeps, this would seem a wise choice. But, you don't see it. Don't know why...Mabye the bad blood/history with Currie. That is real.

Originally posted by IronBenderII

The Ford 9" can take whatever you throw at it. You just have to build it to suite. Same as a 60. Except that the 9" is A LOT LIGHTER, less expensive, has huge aftermarket support and has a ton better ground clearance.

-Jack

I don't quite know about that I got a set of 39 boggers and a buddie has a set of 39 boggers and his boggers are in better shape he has a 60 and i have a 9" and he has about 3/4 of an inch more clearance than I do.... but my pinion is rotated more than his and shaving mine would be pretty simple and I coould gain over an inch of clearance

I went with a HP D60 because of the higher pinion, and a 35 spline ARB.

Do any of you guys have a picture of the nine inch shaved? I have been running a set of homebuilt axles for years now with now problems 25% hiway at 65-70. I'm wanting to gain a little bit more clearance under the centersections.

Aggro had pix of his somewhere... but in the first post in this thread, there's a link to the thread from which this discussion started... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90436

Digging into the past... :eek:

Lets see... "it's a weak sheetmetal housing" sheet metal it is- and easy to weld on, shave, gusset, or plate. FWIW I used to jump my jeep at pismo and other places all the time, when I had a 44 rear it bent. Went to a 9" and never had one problem with the housing...
"Never," you say? :flipoff2:

Who knows but I never worry about the rear and I don't have to carry spares.
"Never" say never... :flipoff2:
The patron saint of 9 inches is beginning to waffle...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888248&postcount=23
I beg to differ. I run 1/4" and my tubes have repeatedly bent up and foreward, indicative of overtouque situation. (traction bending the housing.)
I do jump my rig and have bent them from that also. Eventually I will phase out my 9" for a 60 but if I were to keep it it would be a FF and run 3/8 cromo tubes, trussed. My rig has decent power and is under 3000 lbs.

We perhaps have a new owner for this old smiley: :massey:

Got 60's, Brian? :flipoff2:

Randii

The comp guys running 60's break ring and pinions, often enough that at least a few teams change them as preventative maintenence. Lots of comp guys run flipped 9"s and they seem to have a lot better luck with the R&P.

The weak link of the 9" is definately the housing though.

Strange nodular center: $450, Used 4.88 Richmond Street Gears of Ebay: $75 shipped, Housing: free, Detroit Locker 35 spline: $350, Yukon 35 spline shafts to fit '78 bronco housing: $400, Bearing kit: $60, Metal for Truss: $45, Disk Brakes: $150.

Having a 230:1 lowrange, a 340 ft/lb V-8 and being able to floor it at will: PRICELESS.

I bent my first housing so it was toed out 3". Trussed it across the back, and never looked back. This is only a 4300lb 4Runner.

Is the 8.8 gear in a 9" case junkyard tech or only available from Currie?


PS...you can get a Rev Rot 9" using an 8.8" ring gear and get better pinion clearance than...well...I think anything. Yes, it costs more, but frankly for all the YJ's and rear short shafted jeeps, this would seem a wise choice. But, you don't see it. Don't know why...Mabye the bad blood/history with Currie. That is real.


....sorry if I haven't heard of Currie bad blood...I hang out in the Toy section mostly...what gives?

not sure if this helps, but I run a junkyard 9" and it's been fine so far.

I tossed in 4.88s and a mini-spool to save some money at the time. ran it hard for about a year and finally sheered the crosspin for the minispool. when that happened it tweaked the splined end of one of the shafts so I just went full spool and 31 spline chromos (and always had disc brakes).

that was on 37" MTRs and a fairly stock 4.3 in a 5200# rig (s10). just swapped 38" TSLs so we'll see how it holds up with those.

I chose the 9" mostly due to already having a HP D44 (1/2 ton) in the front so I just found something cheap that matched the bolt pattern.

im right at 1500 with my 9" build. But i have a stock 9" third with spool, brand new 31 spline alloys, Brand new currie HD housing, and All new brakes. pretty much there isnt a used part at all in it, except for the case.

I went with a HP D60 because of the higher pinion, and a 35 spline ARB.
Funny, I have 35 spline ARB's for both my 9's......:shaking: I'm running a stock trussed 9" in the back, 35 spline currie 6 lug alloy axles, chevy rotors, caddy calipers, 5.43's and a 35 spline ARB in a Strange Engineering third member. I have about $1500 in the rear. I'm ordering a diamond 9 front axle housing and will be building it the same, and will be about $4000 into it when done. A 60 wouldn't have been much cheaper, since I can't get one the width I want, anyway.

got high angle nine in the back running 42"s and a arb sweet set up and never had a problem i am trussed and think that will solve most peoples complaints ,if they think the houseing maybe weak or the tubeing maybe thin then just truss it, its not much work and must strengthen it alot so it should be no problem, i wish i had the same in the front

Is the 8.8 gear in a 9" case junkyard tech or only available from Currie?




....sorry if I haven't heard of Currie bad blood...I hang out in the Toy section mostly...what gives?

Bump to both questions.

The 8.8 ring gear goes in a custom center section that currie has cast just for them. No junkyard tech.

Currie provides some services like narrowing a housing at an extremely good price. Their complete assembled stuff is a lot more expensive than if you assemble it yourself. I think there are a few people on here that feel like they were taken because they bought turn key axle assemblies from Currie, but if you look at the time it takes to assemble all that stuff and set up the gears, their prices are really good.

So whats the weight difference between a trussed 9" and regular 60 rearend?

Probably depends on the amount of trussing. I just wonder if its all that much lighter.

Kevo

I have a stock f150 housing trussed across the back. Stock 3rd with 5.13s and a spool. 31spline yukons runnin skinny 38 boggers. I figure when i blow up the third member I'll get a better case and some 35 splines, but for now I have right at $500 in it. Hard to beat it for the money.

Got a brand new N case, with brand new 4.88 gears and a brand new Mark Williams 35 spline spool off E-bay for like $650.

I picked up a Moser N case, detroit, micro polish 4.11's, MW 1350 yoke, big bearings, daytona for about $500 shipped ebay. From a Nascar team, but the stuff is like new and came with new bearings and springs in the locker. I had the housing made with Moser axles and Explorer Disc brakes and it was about 800. Used center with new tubes and flanges. Even calipers and wheel studs. ARP bolts and a nice safety wire job. This is for a drag Econoline.

If you are building one from scratch and buying axles, just go 35 spline off the bat. It's the same price for shafts and locker/spool from most companies. 40 spline the price jumps.