We are making a few improvements over the OEM parts and making what will hopefully be even more of a well balanced trail rig than it already is. It had some pretty serious short comings but all in all, it's survived most of what I've put it through both rock crawling and desert running. We know what Rod Hall and Sam Cothrun have done for them, and I'm taking it to a little different level. Like Tech Tim can be quoted as saying "A Trail Runner".

The project is being done at Motorsports Fabrication Services in Lincoln, CA by Jeff Hayer :smokin:

Nothing extreme, just, I hope, a bit more capable in both the rocks and the desert, and something that most any fabricator can do for their clients.

Lets start with the weaknesses:

Aluminum Front Housing AAM760 IFS: too small for the weight of the vehicle
Steering Rack : set a little bit outside a proper placement for correct pivot points
SuspensionTravel - stock being around 4.0"

The improvements:

Dana 44 Center section
35 spline flanges
ARB 35 spline D44 Locker
Custom Steering rack
Long travel A-Arms (upper and lower)
Custom Intermediate Shaft using GM 2500/3500 tripod inner and CV outer

Other changes:

38" BFG KM2's (365 75 R16)
5:13 gears front and rear (rear being a GM AAM860 10 bolt which will get changed to a fabricated 9" full float Ford when funds provide :-)
Fox Coil over shocks with hoops F/R (2.0 10" travel front and 12" travel rear)
Eliminating Torsion Bars
Complete sub frame for lower a-arm mounts
Keeping the Stock Cast Knuckles

I may do some pre-running in it, and some chasing, but the main focus of the project is to make it stronger where it is weak , and to give it a bit more trail worthiness, all while keeping it street-able. It's been my daily driver for over 5 years/116K miles. I am a total n00b when it comes to fabrication, I only know what has been done in the shop and what I have researched on my own. We are going to keep the geometry as stock as possible and only change what has to be changed. We are in the beginning stages so input is welcome.

Pics to follow as we progress - I am looking for a budget steering rack and pinion that we can use with the existing OEM steering set up (with limited modifications). I've seen some long travel 2500 kits here, and they are using the stock R&P, but we are moving the A-arms 2" inboard as well as 2" outboard.

Here is where we are starting from -

Current mods from stock

Rod Hall Fox Shocks - 2" piggy backs 4.5 inches travel in the front, 8 inches travel in the rear
Spring Over Conversion Rear
High Angle Rear Driveline 1350 Double Cardon
35" BFG KM2's
Hutchinson Beadlocks
Sway Away Torsion Bars (30% over stock spring rate)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1891.jpg

:D

The tear down -

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1903.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1905.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1908.jpg

Half shaft comparison - the two upper axles are H3 and the lower is a 2500/3500/H2. The H3 shafts are CV inner and outer. The larger in CV outer and Tripot Inner.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1900.jpg

The raw working space:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1909.jpg

OEM Rack location:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1916.jpg

The H2/2500/3500 outer fits beautifully into the H3 spindle - the stock lower A-Arm does bind on the H2 outer joint, but we are going with custom lower a-arms, so that can be remedied easily.

Here is the general idea, again this is a mock up (just thinking it through still) with a high pinion D44 TTB.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1983.jpg

But then after staring and measuring, the oil pan became a definite concern.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1993.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_1992.jpg

So after more study we decided to try a low pinion D44 straight axle. Our reasoning was this way we weren't trying to tube and flange a TTB, we could just cut off the straight axle to fit and weld on axle retainers with set 20 bearings. We felt it would be much stronger than tubing and boring the TTB. Luckily a friend who was at the shop that day had a Dodge 8 lug 44 in his backyard, so we ran to his place and picked it up - free.

After some cutting and some cleaning we are where we are at today. The retainers are centered on the axle tubes and ready for welding, but the shafts are not going to be here until Tuesday now at the earliest.

More mock up brackets were cut and we welded into place, with pinion angle set.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2027.jpg

Rear shot shows how much closer to center was achievable with the low pinion vs the high pinion.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2028.jpg

At that point we turned down the axle retainers so they would fit on the outer axle tube, thus allowing us a stronger centering placement for the axle. Which, is where we are today.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2056.jpg

Here is a quick mock up with a GM AAM925 short side flange

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2062.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2064.jpg

We've since centered it on the axle tube for the retainer to be tacked on...awaiting my custom 35 spline flange from Dean :smokin:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/AxleFlange1-1.jpg

That is awesome! Can't wait to see how this works out.

this is cool. if this were facebook, i would "like" this.

Don't normally frequent the Hummer forums but this one caught me....Subscribed :smokin:

We've got a guy in memphis that is re-working the cv shafts for his H3...


Not sure what else he is planning to do but I'll send him this way if he hasn't already seen it

Nice work. way to make a better ifs instead of running another SAS conversion. High travel ifs has so much to offer.

Looks like the project is up and running nicely. im anticipating your long arm fabrication. how much travel is anticipated?

will this d44 offer a narrower cv flange to cv flange distance than the stock part you removed? what is the distance of your part? If the d44 doesnt work out the dutchman 9" billet ifs center with chromo 35sp flanges and double bearing is only a reasonable $1200. its 11" wide I believe

the Rack and pinion issue will also be interesting. im considering options myself to use for my build. the desert race R&P parts (proam etc) would of course be the best part but those parts are so expensive. have you considered getting a beefy (fast) pump and running a ram?

I stumbled acrossed this searching for info on upgrading the IFS on my 2500, this could be a good alternitive to a SAS.

Way cool project, Bebe. Subscribed!

sub'd this is going to be interesting

Subscribed... Interested in a straight axle hummer... Always thought that was the design flaw with these anyway.

Subscribed... Interested in a straight axle hummer... Always thought that was the design flaw with these anyway.

This build is still IFS - we just used a straight axle and cut the tubes off to mount flanges and cv's.

Laproscopic - Nice work. way to make a better ifs instead of running another SAS conversion. High travel ifs has so much to offer.

At his time travel is planned to be nearly 10". We may be able to eek out a little more. We'll have to see what works during testing. (OEM is 3 1/2 :laughing:)

I just keep having to find that balance between badazz and streetable.:smokin:

The center section will be about 4-5 inches narrower than OEM. This will allow us to easily go 2 inches inboard (on both sides) and keep somewhat OEM pivot points.

Once we got into this I started finding SOOOO many front end options and the Dutchman (which Shannon Campbell uses) in his now WINNING IFS car :grinpimp: and the cost was a little more reasonable than the Currie.

However, we are going to try it with the 'free' D44 because of hopefully with some forward innovation, it can also become a low cost option for all types of trail rigs, pre runners, and chase vehicles. (Depending on what Dean charges me for the 35 spline stub axles :flipoff2:).

Basically this set up will fit (with modifications) in any existing IFS vehicle.

The half shafts are fairly cheap and very durable. ($120.00 at Napa) with again, so many options!! The outer CV Joint is already close in size to a 934 (I've been told). RCV makes a replacement option that is supposed to be very good, but we are not going that route (not throwing them under the bus - but they are tough to get a hold of, and that isn't going to work for me personally). We will stay lowish cost for the build, and keep the options for upgrading later if it needs to be.

Full Hydro is not really an option because it will be a street rig. I keep thinking we will keep the OEM and make the mounting system better. I prefer the Rack style steering - it's much easier to use with 38's and a front locker. If I can't keep the stock rack, then we may have a custom one made - but Howe and Pro Am are probably ruled out, mostly for cost.

So far the biggest expense right now is Tires and Shocks. We are ready to start the A-Arm build - but right now we are waiting for the stub axles - should have them by Friday :D

This build is still IFS - we just used a straight axle and cut the tubes off to mount flanges and cv's.

Ok... So if you had the straight axles, why not just do that? Just curious.. Not bashing IFS, I know both have their place in the offroad/DD situations.

Ok... So if you had the straight axles, why not just do that? Just curious.. Not bashing IFS, I know both have their place in the offroad/DD situations.


Only two have been done successfully - and it involved changing the entire drive train on one of them. (225K supposedly went into it. search - bully dog H3) and the Recon H3 was well over what I'm looking to spend.

The number of computers and the way the rigs are set up (Full time 4WD) is making them not SAS friendly.

IMHO, and I've driven SA rigs on the street and the trail. I want to do something new. I believe in IFS on the trail as well. I just think it can be done a little better.

Like I said in the OP - Rod Hall Racing raced the Stock H1's - H2 and H3's and managed to keep them together in the last 6 Baja 500 and Mil, the trucks are proven in my mind. So the 'bones' of a great IFS are already there.

I spend more time on the Rubicon and Fordyce Trails in mine - so just making it stronger, and giving it more flex and gear ratio options will be adequate.

Lookin' good...:smokin:

Only two have been done successfully - and it involved changing the entire drive train on one of them. (225K supposedly went into it. search - bully dog H3) and the Recon H3 was well over what I'm looking to spend.

The number of computers and the way the rigs are set up (Full time 4WD) is making them not SAS friendly.

IMHO, and I've driven SA rigs on the street and the trail. I want to do something new. I believe in IFS on the trail as well. I just think it can be done a little better.

Like I said in the OP - Rod Hall Racing raced the Stock H1's - H2 and H3's and managed to keep them together in the last 6 Baja 500 and Mil, the trucks are proven in my mind. So the 'bones' of a great IFS are already there.

I spend more time on the Rubicon and Fordyce Trails in mine - so just making it stronger, and giving it more flex and gear ratio options will be adequate.


Makes since! Thanks for answering my noob question :D

Makes since! Thanks for answering my noob question :D

No prob....IFS is the new SAS :D

No prob....IFS is the new SAS :D

Try to tell my heep that :flipoff2:

And I just read that whole thread on IFS/SAS swap and it makes me feel like a dumb ass for even asking :grinpimp:

agreed on the rcv customer service issue. i had to hold my tongue to get my custom shafts made. took almost a month and a zillion phone calls. if you can do this with Napa parts and some lathe work go for it.

Better IFS is the new SAS.

The PS shaft came in today :grinpimp:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/AxleFlange1-1.jpg

No prob....IFS is the new SAS :D

Good luck,you'll need it as those CV's will never last with that much travel and 38" tires.Heck the hub bearings will never last with those large tires,they don't last with stock size tires.

Good luck,you'll need it as those CV's will never last with that much travel and 38" tires.Heck the hub bearings will never last with those large tires,they don't last with stock size tires.

You could have a point, but the H2's run 38's without an issue, and the travel will be bumped and limited to make sure we are not abusing the Tripod joint.

The hubs are the same spline and diameter as the H2/2500/3500 GM, I have 116K on them with 35's and I've yet to replace one.

But, this is somewhat of an experiment - since no one has done it before....it's really hard to say for certain. All the numbers and angles work on solid works, so I guess we'll see soon enough.

Passenger flange done - driver side ready to cut/fit. (Thank you Performance Cryogenics) I'm so spoiled having Dean right up the road - I get personal pick up and delivery:p !! It's a 300m 9" axle cut and splined (35).

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2126-1-1.jpg

When both sides are complete, we will have everything we can cryo-treated. Saturday we are mounting, mocking up a drive line and making the a-arm templates.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2146-1-1.jpg

The $80 one ton shaft is giving up +/-10" of travel, we are going to have a custom length intermediate shaft made next. That should get to the planned 11" bumped and strapped.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2142-1-1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2141-1-1.jpg

Rear shot shows how much closer to center was achievable with the low pinion vs the high pinion.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2028.jpg



have you thought about shaving some of the webing off the bottum? I mean it doesn't have to be a structural since the weight isn't on it.

I doubt it. This was a pic of the way we set it before the the axle was done, I'll know more on Saturday but when the subframe is built for the A-Arms, it will take care of the center section looking so low.

Do you anticipate any trouble running the 2500 shafts at those angles? I know they will only be at the extremes during articulation, but people bust the tripot portion fairly often just running the torsion bars cranked up on the pickups. The problem seems to come from the shaft sliding out to the end of the "pot" where it's weaker. Maybe the longer shaft you are putting in will prevent this from happening.

Since we are setting it up from scratch, making sure the inner joint is set properly should prevent it from pulling out and breaking the tripod/tripot housing.

They will be limit strapped and bumped. And we are getting rid of the torsion bars and using coil overs.

Cranking the t-bars make them run with a higher pre-load which severely limits your down travel, I'm pretty sure that's why they meet the limit of the housing and beak.

Edit: we will be setting them up to run as level as possible at ride height.

Cool build so far. If you could have chosen any other factory shaft, what other shafts would you have considered? Or are 2500/3500 shafts really good?

I don't know about really good, but they are over sized for the rig which makes them much beefier and they do have a track record for being tough on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. (and for some reason - I 'like' the tripod/tripot idea vs a true rzeppa style cv for this application).

There is nothing on the market that is bigger, heavier with more travel that is a easily replaced Napa/Kragen part.

Just trying to do this in a way that is achievable to the average trail rig and will not break the bank.

I don't know about really good, but they are over sized for the rig which makes them much beefier and they do have a track record for being tough on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. (and for some reason - I 'like' the tripod/tripot idea vs a true rzeppa style cv for this application).

There is nothing on the market that is bigger, heavier with more travel that is a easily replaced Napa/Kragen part.

Just trying to do this in a way that is achievable to the average trail rig and will not break the bank.

i have always wondered about this, and have wanted to do a simaler build some day. looks like your beating me to it.

what do your solidworks models look like? are you planning on using a skeleton?xmember for the control arm mounts?

i have always wondered about this, and have wanted to do a simaler build some day. looks like your beating me to it.

what do your solidworks models look like? are you planning on using a skeleton?xmember for the control arm mounts?

Solid works models? They look like stick figures. :lmao: This is a no frills build, but in essence the geometry basics are staying the same as the OEM.

We are using a sub frame which I'll post pics of in a bit, where we can mount the lower a-arms. We'll add cross members for the steering mounts and skid plates.

Here is a pic of the sub frame as we were mocking things up Saturday:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2162-1-1.jpg

Here are the A-Arms mocked up:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2173-1.jpg

Now for the sick part - I've never seen anything like this before, so to me it looks freakish:

Full droop
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2175-1.jpg

Ride height
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2182-1.jpg

Full Compression front view w/6.5 inches GC to the front diff:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2180-1.jpg

Ride height front view w/11.5 inches GC to the front diff:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2178-1.jpg

Full Droop front view w/ 16.5 inches GC to the front diff:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2176-1-2.jpg

i might have missed it but u are using the facory h3 rack and pinion correct?
does the factory rack and pinion work well?

Just a couple of disclaimers: The wheel was not tightened down so it appears there is more play than there actually is. This is mock up so we know we will need to run double shear on the knuckles. :smokin:

i might have missed it but u are using the facory h3 rack and pinion correct?
does the factory rack and pinion work well?

We are going to try it. It is a good R&P but it has at least one flaw that we know of and that is the mounting. We will fix that and add some beefier tierods and see how it goes.

It is known to separate at the 'breakaway" shown here where the silver an black meet. If we add a mount shown in the pic, hopefully it will not bend and separate.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/RackMount.jpg

Looks good...!

Very cool build so far! Subscribed! :grinpimp:

Bebe- that droop is awesome! I have seen so many shots of mine with little to no down travel that it is cool to see that on yours.

Looking forward to seeing it on the slick rock.

subscribed

that is badass!!

Bebe, I don't know anything about the Hummer's 2WD/4WD management, so my question is relatively ignorant.

Do you plan to run locking hubs? Do you plan to run full time 4? Are you changing the design from the stock system?

Bebe, I don't know anything about the Hummer's 2WD/4WD management, so my question is relatively ignorant.

Do you plan to run locking hubs? Do you plan to run full time 4? Are you changing the design from the stock system?

Stock it is full time 4WD. It also comes with a 4:1 t-case (Bosch 4493), the 4L60E and an Eaton E-Locker in the rear. I'm adding a 35 spline ARB for the front 44.

Sweet BEBE Just Sweet

Looks great!

this is going to be one bad ass H3 cant wait to see it done

very cool. searching IFS options I came across this for our KOH truck. What does the WMS end up on a H3 come in at? Do your think 10" is all you could get out of the 2500/3500 shafts. D44 centers would do the trick and are probably narrower than the 9"s. I'd have to look.

very cool. searching IFS options I came across this for our KOH truck. What does the WMS end up on a H3 come in at? Do your think 10" is all you could get out of the 2500/3500 shafts. D44 centers would do the trick and are probably narrower than the 9"s. I'd have to look.

WMS is 67"

10" is max with the shafts as is (OEM length). However, you can lengthen the intermediate and get much more depending on what you want for over all width.

RCV has an H2 shaft with a custom length IM, runs about $950.00 as side. It is bad azz. They changed the tripot inner to a rzeppa, and they look to be about the same size as a 934. (you could easily invest much less and build your own inner and have a custom shaft made using the OEM outer)

Compared to the 9", yes the LP D44 that we have fabbed is 25" flange to flange. The 9" in is about 4 inches wider.

MFS is making a cut down 9" that will be 16" flange to flange - but it won't be ready for KOH.

We tried as you can see to use the HP 44 TTB's and it was just more complicated than the LP SA 44.

Lookin' good, Bebe! :smokin:

WMS is 67"

10" is max with the shafts as is (OEM length). However, you can lengthen the intermediate and get much more depending on what you want for over all width.

RCV has an H2 shaft with a custom length IM, runs about $950.00 as side. It is bad azz. They changed the tripot inner to a rzeppa, and they look to be about the same size as a 934. (you could easily invest much less and build your own inner and have a custom shaft made using the OEM outer)

Compared to the 9", yes the LP D44 that we have fabbed is 25" flange to flange. The 9" in is about 4 inches wider.

MFS is making a cut down 9" that will be 16" flange to flange - but it won't be ready for KOH.

We tried as you can see to use the HP 44 TTB's and it was just more complicated than the LP SA 44.

Thanks for the info. Definately something that I will be looking into. I dont see myself building a dedicated IFS rig but I do see myself building a subframe that will bolt into place of the current straight axle for KOH and I'd like to experiment with some off the shelf parts prior to going full custom 300 and these parts might be the trick.

Cool idea Doug, I'll look forward to your version too.

Thanks to Will at 4Wheel Parts Sacramento - He delivered my new 365/75 R16 KM2's this morning!!!!!!

Here they are next to my 45K mile 315/75 R16's

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/38vs35KM2-1.jpg

38's look good! No Sawz All required!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/38s-1.jpg

For the A-arm attachment to the knuckle - a 1 1/4 inch heim (Thanks Dan at RuffStuff!) with a 7/8's"grade 10 cold rolled bolt made by CAT....

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/grade10CATbolt-1.jpg

Thanks to Will at 4Wheel Parts Sacramento - He delivered my new 365/75 R16 KM2's this morning!!!!!!

Here they are next to my 45K mile 315/75 R16's

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/38vs35KM2-1.jpg



how much more life do you think those 35s have!??


looks good bebe! :smokin:

I think if you siped them, you could get another 20-25K. I got 60K out of my first set of 35' KM's, and now the Mexican is running them on his 4runner :laughing:

They are 315/75 R16, not a popular size.

Here is one 38 mounted on the Hutchinson :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/photo-1.jpg

bebe im sure you have said it many times, but what rims are you runnin? those are nice!

Those are what I am running - Hutchinson 2 piece double beadlocks. I love them!

i guess i should have read instead of drooling on the keyboard:D

you got a serious head on ur shoulders. glad to see your takin ifs to the next level. i have a 4-linked solid axle and it does me good, but my Dad swears by his IFS and tell ya what, he can go alot faster through the ruff stuff. hes going to love ur build, maybe ican talk himinto doin ur set up on his 2500hd. good luck, and im hooked

Looks good..
.I am doing a similar swap....

Why not use the factory GM 33 spline inner stub axles though? with a 33 spline locker, of course....seems "of the shelf"???

And what about a fabbing new oil pan, to raise up the D44 for much needed ground clearance?

Also, the H2 AWD has a MUCH better inboard CV joint....it is not a "Tripod":shaking:

Oh Hey HUM-A-NUT! Have you started yours already?

To answer your questions...

The GM 33 spline is too short. I could post photos of them side by side if you would like to see for yourself.

I wanted 35 spline and an ARB.

The H3 shaft has an inner CV, but I'm pretty sure the H2 is a tripod/tripot. I know the GM 2500/3500 definitely has the Tripod/tripot. And when we ordered it from Napa, they show all three vehicle as being the same.

Regardless of what it is - that's what we are using.

We did a ton of work today, I'll post up some pics in a bit - and all I can say is - it works. :D

And it's crazy - I don't think ground clearance will be a problem.

So today we cycled the suspension one last time, a little fine tuning, making sure as suspension was being cycled with the 38 mounted, that our geometry was still good.

It cycled perfectly!!!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2242-1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2255-1.jpg

So, Rick had the honors of getting out the plasma cutter, and started cutting off all all the junk on the frame.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2261-1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2272-1.jpg

FREE parts!!!!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2274-1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2275-1.jpg

All Gone

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2280.jpg

And while Rick was busy cutting, Jeff finished up the differential. It is 29 7/8 flange to flange. The OEM AAM 760 IFS was 30 ".

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2279-1.jpg

And it is now ready for Dean to cut the long side.

Here is the short side

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2260.jpg

Next step is to set up the drop cradle, mount the axle and fabricate the A-arms.

Badass!! :smokin:


I like those H3's. Too bad hummer went under!!:( I wouldn't mind having one for the family truckster.

Sorry I rained on your parade :(

But you know me...... Mr truthful :smokin:

LOL - knowledge is power - thanks for the tips.

So camo is informing me there are more appropriate Heim Joints to use for this build - as it is a daily driver/trail runner. (TechTim should patent that term - I really think it's going to catch on :smokin: )

We have chosen a 1.25" Heat/Cryo Treated Chromoly Rod ends for the mounting of the upper and lower A-arms. We are using the 7/8" to attach the upper A-arms and Delrin Bushings for the Lower A-Arm.

I'm looking at the Kartek, Poly Performance and McKenzies sites for other options.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2252.jpg

Pretty rad build. I like seeing the IFS trail rig.

Sorry I rained on your parade :(

But you know me...... Mr truthful :smokin:

:shaking: Its sunny here...:stirthepot:

QA-1 builds some nice ones also...:D

Frame ground off and cleaned

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2287-2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2281-2.jpg

Drop cradle IN!!!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2294.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2293.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2296.jpg

More :bounce2:

You're definitely doing this build right! Beefy as hell! Good job man... Cant wait to see it finished with the turdy 8's on there! :smokin:

Thank you, and thank you for your service.

I was beginning to wonder - it's been so quiet :laughing:

Considered posting some bewber pics to liven things up - but then I thought better of it. :flipoff2:

Thank you, and thank you for your service.

I was beginning to wonder - it's been so quiet :laughing:

Considered posting some bewber pics to liven things up - but then I thought better of it. :flipoff2:

I think this is just a moderately slow and some what tame build so people arent hard up to watch it... Im just interested to see someone build the hell out of an H3 and you seem to be going in the right direction.


Bewbs are always nice :D

This is an important thread, Bebe. It will be referenced for years to come. You can tell already, just by the fact that your view to post ratio is almost 100:1. This is being watched. You started 9/8 and it's now 10/21. You've had over 1000 hits a week.

I've never heard of anyone else ever doing an upgrade swap on IFS that uses a cannibalized solid axle pumpkin. Correct me, if I'm wrong. Personally, I think this is brilliant. I'm sure I'm speaking for many people here that we're secretly hoping the conversion parts become a product line serviced by MFS so that IFS upgrade becomes the new garage shop holy grail.

Plenty of people have seen the limited improvements that come from bolt-on long travel kits. It's expensive. It's a dead end. No further improvements are likely to make a significant additional difference. On the other hand, fully custom built IFS only makes sense in the extreme conditions of desert racing. It's not likely to trickle down into the realm of full bodied vehicles because it's frankly cost prohibitive. This is a market that's wide open. We're probably watching the future here, and we know it.

If you're surprised by the lack of responses, just remember... it's not disinterest... it's stunned silence.

Thank you, and thank you for your service.

I was beginning to wonder - it's been so quiet :laughing:

Considered posting some bewber pics to liven things up - but then I thought better of it. :flipoff2:

You know, I am NOT showing this thread to my wife. :D She is really pushing hard to mod her H3.

I will hold off my opinions of the steering rack until I see it installed. I have an idea to take the stress off of it.

You know, I am NOT showing this thread to my wife. :D She is really pushing hard to mod her H3.

I will hold off my opinions of the steering rack until I see it installed. I have an idea to take the stress off of it.


Well I would love for you to share it. I don't know if you remember Hunner's fix for it, but that's where we are headed, adding a third mount near the breakaway.

When Rick was getting ready to pull it off the cross member, he called Jeff and I over to see that the holes in the cross member where the mounting bolts go through were way too big. The bolts flopped around in them. That's another issue that needs to be addressed for all H3 owners.

It appears as though GM went to great lengths to keep the mechanics of these vehicles very quiet, but is some circumstances it allowed too much movement making them weak or causing advanced wear. The mounting of the aluminum front diff with 3 bushings is another really bad idea for support, but good for a quiet ride.

Let us know what you're thinking, it would be timely. A-Arms are being fabricated Saturday and the steering rack is next.

Thank you Doc and Military Man - I was hoping that was the case. :)

nice.:smokin:

Very interesting, :smokin:
Is that the lower A-arm mount structure we are looking at? If so, what will ground clearence b at ride hight and what are your compinsations for leveling the rear w the front? Really diggin it!

Well I would love for you to share it. I don't know if you remember Hunner's fix for it, but that's where we are headed, adding a third mount near the breakaway.

When Rick was getting ready to pull it off the cross member, he called Jeff and I over to see that the holes in the cross member where the mounting bolts go through were way too big. The bolts flopped around in them. That's another issue that needs to be addressed for all H3 owners.

It appears as though GM went to great lengths to keep the mechanics of these vehicles very quiet, but is some circumstances it allowed too much movement making them weak or causing advanced wear. The mounting of the aluminum front diff with 3 bushings is another really bad idea for support, but good for a quiet ride.

Let us know what you're thinking, it would be timely. A-Arms are being fabricated Saturday and the steering rack is next.

I don't know if you have the room, but a parallel center/tie rod link. That way the rack won’t be used to control the constantly changing alignment forces between both tires. With big tires, we all have seen what happens to a tie rod bar on a strait axle. So I can imagine the force that more so will be applied to the rack because of the changing arc of movement due to the a-arms. Those additional forces are not there with a strait axle.

No, it won't remove all of the forces off the rack, but should aleviate some of the forces that will go the the rack without it. It will SHARE the load.

Then I would leave the rack on the rubber bushings. I'm sure someone smarter than I can come up with something better.

Just a thought. :)

Very interesting, :smokin:
Is that the lower A-arm mount structure we are looking at? If so, what will ground clearence b at ride hight and what are your compinsations for leveling the rear w the front? Really diggin it!

Yes, the lower A-Arms will mount on the bottom of the cradle - upper A-Arms will mount on the bottom of the frame. The cradle also provides protection for the front differential, and as a mounting point for the skid plates.

Ground clearance at ride height from the bottom skid plate will be in the neighborhood of 11 inches.

We did a spring over on the rear last winter and raised the rear 5.5 inches. The front will net a 5.5 inch lift, so, if there are any adjustments to the rear it will be more or less fine tuning type stuff.

What BellyDoc stated is exactly true. As they say, sometimes no news is good news. I guess it would really be no replies are good replies? Wait....Nevermind, thats stupid. Anyways, I was stunned and have been following this thread since day 1. Great work! Genious.

I don't know if you have the room, but a parallel center/tie rod link. That way the rack won’t be used to control the constantly changing alignment forces between both tires. With big tires, we all have seen what happens to a tie rod bar on a strait axle. So I can imagine the force that more so will be applied to the rack because of the changing arc of movement due to the a-arms. Those additional forces are not there with a strait axle.

No, it won't remove all of the forces off the rack, but should aleviate some of the forces that will go the the rack without it. It will SHARE the load.

Then I would leave the rack on the rubber bushings. I'm sure someone smarter than I can come up with something better.

Just a thought. :)

So adding a center link.....I think there is enough room between the front of the housing and the cradle, and we were going to move the rack down and forward so that the tie rods are parallel with the knuckle mount. We are making a straight tie rod, I don't know what diameter we are using yet.

I like the idea - we'll look at it on Saturday.

I don't know if i'm hearing correctly but are you discussing a solid center tie rod between the knuckles? Hard to disipher what people are thinking. I was just thinking about planes of travel and wanted to get a visual on something -so I went to check this out... http://www.howeperformance.com/desertracing-25rack.htm
Dunno if it would shed any light on anything, everybody here seems very compitent... Looks good!

I think Shadow Man is referring to a center link set up like most of the larger trucks have - but that is coupled with a pitman and idler arm type set up with a steering box.

What you linked is more what I was thinking of as a solution and could very well be what Shadow Man was suggesting, was the custom Tie Rod Piece:

http://www.howeperformance.com/images/products/big-tierodpiece1.jpg

I'll get with Jeff and Rick and see what they think will work. I like the idea though.

I signed up because of this thread alone and check it at least once a day. I want to do something similar to my H3T except i'd like to go with a bigger diff and the knuckles i got off of a 2500hd. I also have the 14bolt and 6l90 from the 2009 silverado 2500HD. Right now the supercharged 402 swap is being finished, next step it to put the 6l90 in, then the rear diff then finally the front end. hoping to have a 3/4-1ton H3T.

Jose

I signed up because of this thread alone and check it at least once a day. I want to do something similar to my H3T except i'd like to go with a bigger diff and the knuckles i got off of a 2500hd. I also have the 14bolt and 6l90 from the 2009 silverado 2500HD. Right now the supercharged 402 swap is being finished, next step it to put the 6l90 in, then the rear diff then finally the front end. hoping to have a 3/4-1ton H3T.

Jose

Wow, that sounds amazing! You should start a build thread. I wanna see it. :)

What a great build. Just read the whole thread and I have two small problems:

1) Bewbers were mentioned, but never shown.

2) You put those big tires on there and you are stuck with the "big tire crowd" for life!!

Dane

do the pictures not work for anyone else?

Photobucket wants me to upgrade :shaking: Stay tuned...fixed.

I vote to use the gm rack and pinion modified with a better mounting mounting bracketry. You can always strengthen the rack and change the width of the rack by adding a tie-rod as was shared.

Of course my vote is rather selfish as i am currently deciding on the steering bits for my ifs. Aftermarket desert racing type hydro assisted Mechanical rack and pinion is $1500+ just for the rack. By the time the rest of the bits are added the price is north of $3000. If the gm 1ton r&p could by tweaked to work it would help keep the ifs builds in reach. New gm r&p's are a few hundred bucks new on ebay

I am so glad you said that, because we have really struggled with this.

When the stock rack went back in, the hard lines were so close to the diff cover, we knew it was not going to work. My heart sank thinking about a $2,500.00 -$3,500.00 steering upgrade for a daily driver.

So we went on a quest - and I have to say this is one of those times when the Internet really pays off :smokin: There are a couple of sites, powersteeringpros.com and o'reillys.com that show actual photos of the product. I first identified similar vehicles, with similar or higher payload, Curb weight, GVRW, turning radius's and track widths.

And we came up with 3 viable options - and went with this one:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2328.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2325.jpg

The hard lines and fittings are on top of the rack, the pivot points are perfect for the widened stance of the H3.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2332.jpg

Jeff's getting started on finishing up the mounts for the diff and steering, and has already gotten some work done on the upper and lower a-arms.

The worst is over. :D

So what's that rack and pinion out of?

Kia? :laughing:


We'll say once we get it all dialed in...wanna make sure first.:D

Looks great and will probably work great

I'm all set to drop coin on howe rack and pinion steering but only because I don't want to spend the time to redo a failed system. One of the shortcomings of IFs in rockcrawling is that it has not been developed for use in rock crawlers for all these years and then all of a sudden Shannon Campbell builds this 4x4 super car that plain works. The only problem with his car is that he went and used all the best and most expensive parts for his front end. Dave Cole follows with an even more trick ifs car. Rick deremo also builds a $$$$. Now JR is also building uberbling ifs desert racer. Both of campbells ifs cars and jrs car use the exact same preassembled pro am front end components: same arms,same knuckles, sme joints, same steering rack, same geometry, SAme everything. Dave Coles car uses different outer joints but is basically the same.

Solid axle technology has had a decade of evolution and is still being tweaked. Ifs went from zero to hero overnight without any middle ground. Sure this bling trophy truck stuff works but would the lesser/cheaper parts work too?

I see plenty of desert guys running their 1/2 Ton chevy and ford pre runners with bone stock rack and pinion running pretty hard. I have seen modded fj cruisers running 35's and doing hard trails. I have seen total chaos long arm kits on tacos and fj cruisers that did well in the rocks. The rack and pinion seemed to hold up well in all these apps. I wonder if one could simply run the oe stuff with smaller ram assist and make it work with 40's.

Thank you!

You know, Rod Halls H3 and Chad Halls H3 lived through numerous Desert Races, (BITD, Parker) including all the Baja's since the truck was first brought to market. Using the Stock R&P's in both Stock Full and Stock Mini classes.

I have over 116K on mine and have taken it on some pretty tough trails pretty regularly here in Norcal and Moab. Rod broke one in the Baja and I damaged one in Moab on Golden Spike. So while it's not made for hardcore KOH type stuff, reinforcing it with hydro assist may be redundant - because it is a gear driven hydraulic cylinder. Flaming River and Unisteer both devise custom R&P's for much less than Howe or Pro-Am.

We will be adding clevis mounts (inner) and custom tie rods with 3/4" heims on both ends. We'll just have to see if it works - I think it will be fine for the average "Trail Runner" application.

Thank you!

So while it's not made for hardcore KOH type stuff, reinforcing it with hydro assist may be redundant -

Perhaps

But if one were to build a beefy custom tie rod to connect both sides of the oe rack rams then perhaps one could run an assist ram to the tie rod to offer a greater push in the rocks. I wonder if it would hold. One shortcoming here could be that the extra ram may slow down the rack.

The nice thing about the howe And pro am racks is that they are strong enough to move big tires in the rocks and fast enough to keep up in the dessert

I opened the build not knowing what to expect. Now I'm subscribed. :D Great build. Really nice work

i dont even have to sub this thread cause its always on top.

Rick picked up some bling for me yesterday at Tognottis :D - I am going to be Rockin' this!!:laughing:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2340.jpg

Here is a comparison of the new Tie Rod inner vs the OEM (left). Jeff is going to fab up some Clevis Mounts and we are trying to locate a source for those Monster 24mm bolts that will have to screw into the rack. We will be using the 3/4 in heim from RuffStuff :smokin:. Unfortunately PSC, Howe and ProAm don't make Clevis's that big.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2367.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2364.jpg

Ha! It wouldn't be a Hummer without the chrome. :D

Looking good! Can't wait to see this thing on 38"s.

are you going to run skidplates over the sub frame or just leave it open?

Jeff and Rick have a skidplate design already in their heads but they won't tell me what it is....I think they are planning some sort of "Torchmate Surprise".

As long as as it doesn't say "Camo says to eat a bowl of D1cks" I'm sure I'll be fine with whatever it they have in mind.

Unfortunately PSC, Howe and ProAm don't make Clevis's that big.


Here's a Kia part you might find interesting...


http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/BellyDoc/steering%20links/DSC_0035.jpg

That wouldn't happen to be a 24mm x 3mm tp would it?

Jeff

WOW, THAT LOOKS REALLY CLOSE!!!

C'mon Doc, there is a pot of Gutter Runners in it for you at KOH if you can deliver the specs....:D

Jeff and Rick have a skidplate design already in their heads but they won't tell me what it is....I think they are planning some sort of "Torchmate Surprise".

As long as as it doesn't say "Camo says to eat a bowl of D1cks" I'm sure I'll be fine with whatever it they have in mind.

You mean to tell me that you would NOT rock a skidplate that says that??

Dane

I don't think my clients in the Bay Area would understand :laughing:

Honestly, I don't think it's that big.

This is the clevis from an FJ Cruiser HD steering tie rod kit from All-Pro. They've apparently discontinued the product line, but I just heard from a forum member on the FJ Cruiser board that they got ahold of a set in person at All-Pro.

I doubt it's 24mm but I wonder if you could ream up the hole and fit a larger bolt.

I just got off the phone with a parts department guy at a local Toyota dealership and he thinks the threaded hole in the FJC rack is 14 millimeter, by the look of the stock part. By the look of the clevis, you could lose 5 mm all the way around, and still have some material. I just can't say whether or not it would work with your intended heim choice.

I dropped a note to a friend of mine who knows those guys, but you could probably get the specs directly from Jon Bundrant.

Edit: Bebe, you know I would never torture you for very long hunting for parts on your MOST EXCELLENT project. ;)

Thank you, you truly are merciful - Hippocratic oath and all. :D

I checked the websites of the above mentioned companies, including Camburg, Blitzkreig, Dixon Bros, BDS, and a few others I could scare up from RDC. There are a couple of 3/4", but I could not find 24mm.

We did find the bolts in Reno, being drop shipped to the shop by Friday :D

Honestly, I don't think it's that big.

This is the clevis from an FJ Cruiser HD steering tie rod kit from All-Pro. They've apparently discontinued the product line, but I just heard from a forum member on the FJ Cruiser board that they got ahold of a set in person at All-Pro.

I doubt it's 24mm but I wonder if you could ream up the hole and fit a larger bolt.

I just got off the phone with a parts department guy at a local Toyota dealership and he thinks the threaded hole in the FJC rack is 14 millimeter, by the look of the stock part. By the look of the clevis, you could lose 5 mm all the way around, and still have some material. I just can't say whether or not it would work with your intended heim choice.

I dropped a note to a friend of mine who knows those guys, but you could probably get the specs directly from Jon Bundrant.

Edit: Bebe, you know I would never torture you for very long hunting for parts on your MOST EXCELLENT project. ;)

I was JUST trying to track down a set of those clevises for a Tacoma today. I wonder why they discontinued them? It is indeed a 14mm hole on the steering rack.

And that part looks far to nice to be on a Kia. :flipoff2:

Bebe, what about these down in the pics section.... I cant get any info but with a little investigation you could contact the author.. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index3.html
Put your own bolt in....

Thank you Larry, when I start googling anything I start with BillaVista. In fact when I started this build, before it was even in the shop, I consulted with him on some of my theories and thoughts :D He is incredibly knowledgeable and I felt like a total dimwit talking to him, but have learned so much from his articles. Thanks Bill :)

The Clevis' are from PSC, and while they are nearly perfect, they are still too small. The inner diameter of the rack is 2.25 inches, the PSC Clevis OD IIRC is 1.25". They are made for the 3/4" heim joint which is what we are using.(With stainless steel mis-alignment spacers...Thanks Dan:-)

Jeff's been busy getting everything together to start turning these - We should have them finished up by tomorrow. I'll post pics with some comparisons to the PSC Clevis.

Since they're just clevises, and they take a spherical bearing, the accuracy doesn't have to be machine-grade. You could do a fabricated clevis with a lathed spacer that's just a piece of 2" round stock bored out with a 24mm hole, and then some 1/4" plate bent into the clevis shape, drilled and welded.

I've seen tons of people using welded clevises on steering arms. In fact, one of the interesting things I saw AFTER I built my hydraulic system was that some people were running the HEIM on the ram and had the clevis on the tie rod. This has a number of advantages from an assembly standpoint, because the heim is designed to work with a jam nut. That would probably fit inside your rack housing.

24mm rod ends are a standard part with several vendors. I'm seeing them as an Aurora and a QA1 part with a google search.

Since they're just clevises, and they take a spherical bearing, the accuracy doesn't have to be machine-grade. You could do a fabricated clevis with a lathed spacer that's just a piece of 2" round stock bored out with a 24mm hole, and then some 1/4" plate bent into the clevis shape, drilled and welded.

I've seen tons of people using welded clevises on steering arms. In fact, one of the interesting things I saw AFTER I built my hydraulic system was that some people were running the HEIM on the ram and had the clevis on the tie rod. This has a number of advantages from an assembly standpoint, because the heim is designed to work with a jam nut. That would probably fit inside your rack housing.

24mm rod ends are a standard part with several vendors. I'm seeing them as an Aurora and a QA1 part with a google search.

That was one of the ideas we came up with, there are many ways to skin this cat.

I did find welding the clevis to the tie rod and setting the heim joint into the steering rack - I call it the hot rod version.:smokin: It is used frequently on hot rods and with Jeff's background in building B/A hot rods, he had already thought of it and decided against it.

Keep in mind my rig weighed 6150 before the Hutchinsons and 38's. :D

The forces on the inner joint are not so bad in a vertical/travel situation, however, in rock crawling, you put a great deal of force on (and I don't know the technical term though I can see it in my head) horizontally when you approach a solid structure you are going to crawl over.

This one I found for a dragster, and it could be made to be stronger, easily.

http://www.kenlowe.com.au/_borders/steeri12.jpg

Now to address the 24mm issue. I probably did not explain it well in my first description. The threaded part of the tie rod that threads into the rack is 24mm. Meaning like - 15/16. Less than an inch in diameter but more than 7/8. It is 14mm long/deep.

I was asking around on RDC in Pm's and two folks told me to call Camburg and have them make a set of Clevis' ($300.00 a pair). No big deal, but why when I have the truck at MFS and Dean at Performance Cryogenics right down the road?

So, just as Jeff got the bolts in from Reno today and realized they were WRONG, Dean came in to measure for the long side axle, and they both determined between the two shops, they could just make them.

So, that's where we are....Dean will have his portion done in the AM, Jeff will finish them up in the lathe and mill, and we can get moving forward.:D

A reason the clevis needs to be on the rack end, is it needs to be able to move (2.00") into the rack, which, if we were using a rod end, we would have to shim it a lot to get proper thread engagement.

If you can point me to a 24mm thread diameter rod end - I would be very happy. :grinpimp:

I bet this is going to be a lot easier to explain with photos than trying to paint mental pictures. :emb:

I will for sure post up tomorrow.

That's crystal clear logic, Bebe. I can't imagine doing a rod end that's only threaded in 14mm and it has to stick out 2" to clear the housing at full lock. That seems like it's asking way too much of the thing. I'd much rather have a machined 1-piece clevis bolted flat to flat. The clevis does take some angled forces, so those flats bear load. A heim would just load the hole.

Here's what I was looking at when I found metric heims:

http://www.aurorabearing.com/Files/articles/AuroraBearing610Catalog.pdf

They have a hardened 24mm on page 38, but it's a 2mm pitch and I think Jeff said M24x3.0, which I don't see.

Dean brought in the Clevis blanks, and a couple extra for Jeff to machine later. This 2 inch diameter threaded 24x14mm.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2377.jpg

And for some perspective:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2379.jpg


The 38 hung on the rear at full droop;

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2370.jpg

Lower A-Arm;

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2382.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2385.jpg

Upper and Lower A-Arm attached:smokin:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2396.jpg

And a little vid of it working :D Click on pic and it should play

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/th_MVI_2399.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/?action=view&current=MVI_2399.mp4)

Bebe, everything is looking really good! I was kinda wondering y you guys werent just machining you own clevises, looks like you have some qualified individuals at your disposal.. Question, I would immagine there is gunna be a fair ammount of stress on your A-arms and front diff "cage", what are your thoughts on gussests? Are you gunna box the A's w plate? You may have already said it but what schedule stock are you using for the bulk of the work? Ultimately will you be adding or subtracting weight to the truck? Love the functional video, good fruits of labor results....

So far everything is being made from 1 3/4 .250 wall with the exception of the upper a-arm, it's 1 1/4 .250 wall.

So here is a short list of what still needs to be done:

Clevis' need to be milled, threads needs to be cleaned up

Rack needs to be mounted, tie rod length needs to be measured and fabricated, fitted, and cycled

Drivers side axle should be done by then

A-arms are going to come back off and get welded to the table and gusseted, and plated and made for the D/S

Then we need to set up both the rear diff with the 5:13's and the front with the 5:13's and an ARB, wire and plumb the ARB.

At this point I'm sure is when all the bracing will be added to the drop cradle.

Mount all of the 38's on the Hutchinsons and have them taken down and balanced

Get a front Drive line measured and made

Get the shocks ordered (we will need to assemble everything and weigh the corners before we can figure the coils we'll need).

Adjust the ride height in the rear if necessary

Then it's time for some testing:D

That must be a rack and pinion off of a skip loader. Those clevises are going to be e-freakin'-normous. :D

this thing is crazy... what is that rack off of? it reminds me of the rack on the rear of the rear steer denali trucks...

It is off something big - but MFS wants to wait to reveal...but you are close!!!

It is off something big - but MFS wants to wait to reveal...but you are close!!!

It's not that big...:flipoff2:

I have a question about using those rod ends at the A-arm/knuckle interface.

You're using what looks like a joint equivalent to what I put on my links, rated at over 107,000 pounds for radial static load.

However, you're laterally loading them, and I can't find a load rating for that.

Did you get a number for that? Given the corner weights, and the potential for spike loading, how do you approach this question?

Welp, lets see if I can BS my way through your most excellent inquiry :D

Spike Loading: Unless I'm jumping it, and Jeff said I'm not supposed to do that....just kidding, he asked me what I wanted to do with it, and I said "jump it" he said "You're fucking killing me Bebe" :D LOL

As far as I can imagine, load, whether vertical or horizontal, would be the same as long as it stays withing the range of the spherical bearing tolerances of the heim joint itself. The majority of the load will be on the knuckle and the bolts, which is why Jeff had the 7/8 grade 10 cold rolled CAT bolts made. Also using the 1 1/4 inch chromoly heims spreads that load out over a larger surface, which will help them wear longer (the nylon). The A-Arms are being mounted with Delrin inserts (a type of Bad ass bushing material)

The weak point here will be the knuckle.

E-AHO-LA-ULA

Lower A-Arm (3 mounting points)
Coil / Shock (4 mounting points including hoop to frame)
Knuckle/Unit Bearing (4 mounting points)

The major load bearing component is the lower a-arm, which is attached to the frame and the knuckle. Then the coil over shock which attaches to the lower a-arm and the frame.

The upper A-Arm does not bear as much load, nor does the rack, tie rods or half shaft (they are mostly steering/drive components).

I know some folks may be wondering why we did not use a uni-ball? The top of the OEM knuckle would not allow for proper vertical alignment, so we would have had to make the following changes:

Use a different wheel with less backspacing
Build a custom knuckle
purchase a custom knuckle

And in continuing my thought, our goal was to use as many of the OEM parts as possible. And to upgrade the worst of the OEM parts for all H3 Wheelers.

The way I'm envisioning it, the physical weight of the corner pushes down on the spring and this rests on the lower A-arm The lower A arm is bearing all the weight. Resting the weight on the knuckle/hub/wheel/ground is no different than resting it on a jack stand on the ground under the A-arm.

As I see it, the entire weight of the front corner is pushing straight up on the bolt that goes through the eye of the heim joint. This loads the heim in a direction that's different from how it's specified in the tables. The tables specify "radial static load" which is where the load is in-line with the shank of the rod end. It basically means you screw the heim into a test fixture, bolt it into in a clevis, and then pull on it straight up until the physical race that contains the spherical bearing breaks open and the ball comes out. You actually have to physically divide the ring of metal around the sphere for it to break like that.

On the other hand, you're loading this in the direction that just pops the sphere out of the side. It's a lateral load. All that contains the ball in that direction is a crimp on each side of the eye that holds the ball. I'm pretty sure that the 107,000 pound rating doesn't apply in that direction.

Granted, if you're going to go with a heim joint to take this direction of load, the obvious thing to do is go with the biggest one, and 1.25" shank hardened alloy is as beefy as I've seen, so maybe it's strong enough. The problem is that I'm looking for a table that gives this statistic and I'm not finding it.

I'm guessing you have a corner weight in the 1200-1500 pound range. The springs could be on the order of 250 pounds per inch. That means if you've got 10 inches of up-travel you add 2500 pounds of force on that joint. You could conceivably hit 4000 pounds before you top out. That's 4000 pounds supported by the little lip of metal crimped around the ball on one edge.

Just remember... I'm professionally paranoid and everything scares me. ;)

I found it.....Axial Static Load Capacity:

http://www.aedmotorsport.com/FK/ENGINEERINGDATA.htm

http://www.aedmotorsport.com/FK/images/misalignment.jpg

Calculations of Load Ratings for Rod Ends and Spherical Bearings
D = Head Diameter or Diameter of Outer Race
d = Ball Diameter
T = Housing Width
E = Shank Diameter of Female Rod Ends
H = Diameter of Drilled Hole in Shank of Male Rod End
X = Proportional Limit of Material
Brass 30,000 PSI
Stainless Steel (Annealed) 35,000 PSI
Low Carbon Steel 52,000 PSI
Alloy Steel 140,000 PSI

STATIC RADIAL LIMIT LOAD

* THAT STATIC LOAD REQUIRED TO PRODUCE A SPECIFIED PERMANENT SET IN THE BEARING STRUCTURE
* IT WILL VARY FOR A GIVEN SIZE AS A FUNCTION OF CONFIGURATION
* IT MAY ALSO BE PIN LIMITED AS A FUNCTION OF BODY RESTRAINTS AS IN THE CASE OF ROD END BEARINGS.

STATIC RADIAL ULTIMATE LOAD

* THAT LOAD THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO A BEARING WITHOUT FRACTURING THE BALL, RACE, OR ROD END EYE.
* THE ULTIMATE LOAD RATING IS USUALLY, BUT NOT ALWAYS 1.5 TIMES THE LIMIT LOAD.

STATIC AXIAL LIMIT LOAD

* THAT LOAD THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO A BEARING TO PRODUCE A SPECIFIED PERMANENT SET IN THE BEARING STRUCTURE.

STATIC AXIAL ULTIMATE LOAD

* THAT LOAD THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO A BEARING WITHOUT SEPARATING THE BALL FROM THE RACE.
* THE ULTIMATE LOAD RATING IS USUALLY, BUT NOT ALWAYS 1.5 TIMES THE LIMIT LOAD.

Static Axial Load
The maximum static axial load for rod end bearings is determined by the following formula. This formula does not take in consideration the strength of the stake in the cartridge type of construction, or does not consider bending of the shank due to force.

Axial Load (A)
A = .78 [d + .176 T)2 -d2 ] x X

I'm gonna guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs. Aurora Bearing's website said approx 20% of radial load

Right on, Bebe!!

20% of 107,000 should be PLENTY!!

Right on, Bebe!!

20% of 107,000 should be PLENTY!!



Does that mean I can jump it ? :laughing:

Does that mean I can jump it ? :laughing:

Once :lmao:

Does that mean I can jump it ? :laughing:

If in doubt be sure to make a vid of the attempt

Looking so good

Clevis's done and mounted on the Rack:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Clevis.jpg

Looks good, Can't wait to see it done.

Put a foot next to that thing for size reference. ;)

LOL I'll see what I can do for comparisons tomorrow :D:D

This one's for Doc:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2433.jpg

Comparison with the stock H3 Rack

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2434.jpg


And my sessy long side axle. Doesn't Dean do beautiful work??? So sparkly :flipoff2:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2435.jpg

looking good, Bebe, :smokin:

the stock tie rod looks very similar to the one on my Polaris RZR,, !:eek::D
Oh, and Yes, Dean does a great job splinning axles .his wave splinning is awsome.:smokin:

Thanks Jamie. Dave came by the shop today to see it in person...he can't wait to see how it works on the trail :D

I have a couple of vids to share. The first is after we adjusted both the UCA Pivot mount location to reduce plunge and camber at both full droop and full compression, I think it worked well:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/th_MVI_2440.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/?action=view&current=MVI_2440.mp4)

The second is after the rack was mocked up and the Tie Rods were made and connected up....thanks again to Dan at RuffStuff Specialties for being there on a Saturday so we could drop in and pick up our bad ass rod ends:grinpimp:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/th_MVI_2443.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/?action=view&current=MVI_2443.mp4)

Here is a pic of Dan and Dean's Hardware co-mingling:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2444.jpg

I have never seen Jeff so happy. He jumped so high in the the air when we took this video LOL and did a jig.

Thank you Jeff for all your hard work and persistence throughout this project so far. We are in the home stretch now, and it's all thanks to you (and Rick :grinpimp: ) For me it's a two year dream coming true.


Bebe

:bounce2:Updates???:bounce:

Nice job on Pirate Live bebe!!

:d

This is awesome,cant wait to see it in action........:smokin:

that has to be the best h3 i have ever seen

Are you going to run a front sway bar? I didn't see one.

Yes, and rear. We just haven't got to it yet, need to place shocks and bumps first. Jeff finished up mounting the rack yesterday, so now he's going to start fabricating the A-Arms....for reals :D

how much trouble will you have with the driveshaft? looks like your almost centered.

how much trouble will you have with the driveshaft? looks like your almost centered.

Meh
Were gonna put it on the roll bender and make it fit :flipoff2:

Ok...as of today the rack has been hard mounted:

Front View:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/Steeringrackmount.jpg

Side view:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/SRMSideView.jpg


And some of Jeff's pretty welds - these are Mig, and what he has done her is completed the weld to the frame, and reinforced the UCA mounts with some plate front and back.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/UpperCAMounts.jpg

We are getting closer and closer to A-Arms! :grinpimp:

Keep up the hard work Bebe. :cool:

Tis a thing of beauty. :)

How much ground clearance will you have from your crossmember at full compression? Do you plan on having more updravel, or more droop when at ride height?

How much ground clearance will you have from your crossmember at full compression? Do you plan on having more updravel, or more droop when at ride height?

Ground clearance:

Full compression is right now at about 6.5 inches, at full droop we have 16.5. At ride height it will be at 11.5. It will have more uptravel than droop , but not by much - it should be pretty even.

I'm very excited about this build. Keep up the great work, I cant wait to see it in action.

Not a big fan of H3's for the reasons you mentioned in the OP - it's a grocery getter trying to be cool and nothing else. Looks like you guys are definately changing that!! Wish I was closer, because I'm sure it looks even more killer in person! :smokin:

Not a big fan of H3's for the reasons you mentioned in the OP - it's a grocery getter trying to be cool and nothing else. Looks like you guys are definately changing that!! Wish I was closer, because I'm sure it looks even more killer in person! :smokin:


LOL
Grocerey Getters can't do this:

:flipoff2:


Right Booger???

LOL
Grocerey Getters can't do this:

:flipoff2:


Right Booger???

Don't tease the haters. :D

LOL
Grocerey Getters can't do this:

:flipoff2:


Right Booger???

If you put a asian behind the wheel a geo metro could do that. :laughing:

If you put a asian behind the wheel a geo metro could do that. :laughing:

:lmao:

Jeff did some more Mount Work today :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/PassMnt.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/PassMount2.jpg

And some tricked out plating for the LCA's

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/UCP.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/UCP2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/UCPDS.jpg

:smokin:

Nice execution

Why did you decide to mount the diff with bushings vs hard mounting the diff?

Nice execution

Why did you decide to mount the diff with bushings vs hard mounting the diff?

The original was mounted with bushings. It helps keep down the road vibrations. They are made out of Delrin, so they will last a very long time.

The original was mounted with bushings. It helps keep down the road vibrations. They are made out of Delrin, so they will last a very long time.

The reduction in vibration from Delrin (generic name is acetal) is hardly going to be noticeable. It is a hard plastic. It was originally used as a replacement for rubber and polyurethane bushing because it didn't deflect, but was lighter and wouldn't bind like a metal bushing.

I very, very rarely login, and I think this is actually my first post... but I found your build extremely interesting and wanted to tell you to keep up the good work. I'll be checking regularly until completion/action shots.

Well, welcome! Hope not to disappoint.

Wayne, the PCM left and is on it's way to you :D

Papa Smurf - we are going to ship the trans next week!!!

Well, welcome! Hope not to disappoint.

Wayne, the PCM left and is on it's way to you :D

Papa Smurf - we are going to ship the trans next week!!!

:grinpimp:

Soooooo, gonna be ready for EJS? I can;t wait to see this finished up!!!

K, I'll be looking for it. Burried at the shop right now, and next week is a short one.... so look for me to be done after Tgivin'

What I think will be just right for your trans is a Beast reaction shell, an SK-4L60E shift kit, a Raybestos Z-Pack in the 3-4 clutch, and a wide Red Eagle 2-4 Band. Any other parts that need attention, they'll get it.

K, I'll be looking for it. Burried at the shop right now, and next week is a short one.... so look for me to be done after Tgivin'

What I think will be just right for your trans is a Beast reaction shell, an SK-4L60E shift kit, a Raybestos Z-Pack in the 3-4 clutch, and a wide Red Eagle 2-4 Band. Any other parts that need attention, they'll get it.

Sweet! I'm probably going to drive it up on Monday.

Soooooo, gonna be ready for EJS? I can;t wait to see this finished up!!!
That'd be bitchin' if so... I'd love to see this thing! And it's looking like I'll be at EJS before I'll be in CA :D
What I think will be just right for your trans is a Beast reaction shell, an SK-4L60E shift kit, a Raybestos Z-Pack in the 3-4 clutch, and a wide Red Eagle 2-4 Band. Any other parts that need attention, they'll get it.

Why the shift kit? We have this discussion going on in the 5.3 thread right now. I see absolutely no value in it. IMO anything that the shift kit addresses can be modified through the tune. I've asked this question to others, and nobody can give me a good reason. Even my bud, which is a GM master tech that loves the TransGO's to death....

Soooooo, gonna be ready for EJS? I can;t wait to see this finished up!!!

Jeff is cooking now - I'll post up some progress pics in a bit, but he was laying out the a-arms on the table....I think they will be ready to install by the end of the week.

And it will be my 5th Black Sheep week - so yep, I'll be there !

That'd be bitchin' if so... I'd love to see this thing! And it's looking like I'll be at EJS before I'll be in CA :D


Why the shift kit? We have this discussion going on in the 5.3 thread right now. I see absolutely no value in it. IMO anything that the shift kit addresses can be modified through the tune. I've asked this question to others, and nobody can give me a good reason. Even my bud, which is a GM master tech that loves the TransGO's to death....

Ask your GM master tech how U can tune EACH shift with the computer.
Ask your GM master tech how U can tune out a worn Converter Valve bore?
I install this kit in every unit I build. It cleans the shifts up super nice, adds a few PSI to mainline, has a great 3-2 shift, great lockup, and great low / rev holding power. It is a relatively inexpensive kit. The converter valve is the main reason I use it, and the clean shifts are a bonus

Ask your GM master tech how U can tune EACH shift with the computer.
Ask your GM master tech how U can tune out a worn Converter Valve bore?
I install this kit in every unit I build. It cleans the shifts up super nice, adds a few PSI to mainline, has a great 3-2 shift, great lockup, and great low / rev holding power. It is a relatively inexpensive kit. The converter valve is the main reason I use it, and the clean shifts are a bonus

Keeping the worn out parts aside. Let's say this is a brand new trans out of an 08 Sierra 4x4 with the 4L60E.

I can easily tune each shift with the computer. Here are just some of the things that can be changed through software...

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to bag on you, I'm just trying to understand the purpose.

...As well, now knowing that your going through her trans and I'm going to be going through the tune here in a few days, basically doing what you are going to be doing with the shift kit. I'd hate to 'enhance' everything and make it so that she doesn't like the way it drives anymore. So more just trying to get on the same page.

Wow, that is some pretty cool tuning software. :smokin:

But, what happens when a sensor is out of range and the pressures are not what they should be. Also, the Isolator Converter valve bore is a sore spot in these transmissions. Using the new valve works good in worn bore. Torn up converter clutches that plug coolers is a bummer.
I also see quite a few broken accumulator springs, this will help.
The mods to the servo keep the unit from shuttle shifting 1-2 1-2 1-2 and takes the flare out of the 2-3 and 3-2 shifts. I can give it a quicker release from reverse. Even though it will have a 13 vane pump, it will help to reduce the pressure spikes in the main line.

You can still tune the shifts. Most peeps think a shift kit is something that makes a trans bang gears. That is not what this kit is intended to be. It is more of preventative / correction package. They don't shift hard at all, just clean, no overlap, and no flare.

I don't know squat about tuning the trans shifts via the computer program. I can understand though how you can tune the shift points via VSS and TPS, as well as TCC apply.

Do you change the EPC pressures for each shift to shorten them up and create the feel? That seems like a shot in the dark on the first tune. This is not a stock rig that you are familiar with. Vehicle weight, tire size, engine torque, gearing, high/low range, etc will all have a large effect on the shift itself. I can't see how you could get it perfect on a basically mail order tune. You might need to sit in the rig and drive/tune, even if I did not mod the trans. Remember, these trannies have a vane style pump. The rings don't like high line pressures, especially with spikes, and it also wears the slide pins.

Forgot to mention, I'm sure it will have at least a plastic forward and 1-2 accumulator pistons. Those will be changed to aluminum.

EDIT.. The 3-4 clutch pack going in will also shorten the 2-3. The clearance will be cut in half in that pack.

See, that's the kind of answer I haven't been getting - makes tons of sense now! I'm in no way a tranny guy. You've probably forgotten more in the last 15 minutes than I know ;)

In the one picture you can see the max pressure of 92.8, that is a global. So no matter what other adjustments you make, it will never see over 92.8 psi. Pressure is calculated based on the current on the force motor, which also has it's own table to dial in - ie at this current and this trans oil pressure, it's this psi.

From there I can change the amount of pressure at any shift point, based on the calculated engine ftlb output. Essentially increasing/decreasing firmness of the shift. There is also a brake and coast table, which will go negative on the calculated ftlbs. Which is great for trucks that tow heavy loads in the mountains; I can increase the shift pressure during decel and essentially give the rig a trans brake, much like if it had a stick. There is also another table in the fueling section where I can shut of fuel to the engine during a heavier decel, which also acts like an exhaust brake (kind of).

As for rig differences, that's kind of already in there based on the amount of power required to move the rig at the velocity the driver wants.

I really love these newer GM vehicles. Literally, if you don't like the way it drives, it can be changed by a quick hookup with a laptop.


So I think for now, I'll leave the shift firmness alone and just set up her up/down shifts, to keep it from hunting on hills.

Dang, I need to learn what you are doing. I can see that being a huge help for particular vehicles after a build. Sweet. :)

Dang, I need to learn what you are doing. I can see that being a huge help for particular vehicles after a build. Sweet. :)

Now you can understand my scepticism for the shift kits ;) Seems we both learned something, and that's a good thing. I'll no longer be critical over the shift kits. Heck, I may just have to put one in mine now! :smokin:

All I have learned is Wayne and Kieth love Tranny's:D

All I have learned is Wayne and Kieth love Tranny's:D

lol
Tranny's? Naw.... 98+ up GM's, yes. The amount of tuning power (configuration) GM gives in tuning these are incredible! Take that and the fact that it's pretty much the same clear across the board. Not much changes between an I5, like in the H3 to a blown LSA in a 2010 Cadi. What is there, like 8 PCM's in the entire GM fuel (gas, not diesel) class? Vortec, P01, P12, P59, E38, E40, E67, E69 - then there are two Tranny modules; T42 and T43. I think that's really it? That stems from 98-2010 haven't seen any 2011 stuff yet, but I'm sure the E67 is still king.

All I have learned is Wayne and Kieth love Tranny's:D

Well, we have always known that Dean likes shafts :homer:

Jeff has been biiiizzzee!!!!!

Drop Cradle and mounts done

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2459.jpg

Skid Plate/Steering Rack Supports

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/Skidfront.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/SkidBars.jpg

Upper Bracing

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/Frontcrossmember.jpg

Center Section back from being Blasted (thanks WeBilt Dave :-)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2486.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2485.jpg

The most exciting part for me....the Lower A-Arms are on the table

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2488.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2489.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2490.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2491.jpg

:smokin:

You gonna powder the center? Or splash some paint on it? Pink? :D

:smokin:

You gonna powder the center? Or splash some paint on it? Pink? :D

It will be Painted, satin black....I asked Jeff, he said there will be some pink on it - but again, he won't tell me where :laughing:

I think we might also be coming up with a design contest for my skid plate...we'll see.

A fellow Hummer owner (CHOmie) sent me this lovely gift for my H3 build:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2493.jpg

Get it on that :D

Looks great Bebe!

A fellow Hummer owner (CHOmie) sent me this lovely gift for my H3 build:
Get it on that :D

:lmao:

So what are the plans for coilovers and locker?

It just came in today:grinpimp:

35 spline ARB

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2495.jpg

As far as shocks, I'll be getting some Fox 2.5" coilovers for the front and some Fox 2.5" piggybacks for the rear. Both will be 10" travel.

I read all 8 pages, sorry if I missed it, but are you going to be using the stock hubs, or using 2500HD hubs?

I read all 8 pages, sorry if I missed it, but are you going to be using the stock hubs, or using 2500HD hubs?

Stock knuckles and hubs.

Stock knuckles and hubs.

The stock hubs in the 2500HD's and 1500's (In my experience with both) are generally pretty weak with even 35" tires and stock amounts of travel; Are the H3 hubs going to be any stronger, and will you need to run any adaptation to the CV axle to get the CV spline to fit into the hub?

If you covered all this already I apologize, I'll go back and read it again, just skimming between projects here at work.

I guess that first we should make sure that we are talking about the same part and that we are using the term 'hub' to mean 'unit bearing'?

I have heard this before, in this thread and others, but am always curious under what conditions they are weak. Not trying to disagree, but people often time say parts are weak yet offer no examples or experiences/solutions as well.

I have never had a problem with mine. I have been on the same hubs/knuckles for 116k miles in 5 years. About 90K has been with 35" tires, wheeling, Moab, Rubicon and Fordyce, along with many other Sierra Trails. They sound great when you give them a spin, don't leak, but at this point I do carry a spare JIC.

I understand that 38's are bigger, but I have seen H2's run 37's and have over 100K miles and have never replaced a hub (and they wheel them).

Maybe the H3/H2 hubs are different than the GM 1500/2500/3500? I know we had to modify a GM 1/2 ton chevy hub to work on the H3 we repaired in Moab (we had to change the wheel studs because the shoulders were hitting the brake rotor).

I also know I drove home to NorCal from Ely Nv (400 mile) with no front axles. We had no issues with the bearings. A couple of folks we talked to after told us NEVER to do that again :D

I don't know why they would be different, or why the GM version of the part would fail more frequently before the Hummer parts.

I know the H3 UB is about $200.00 more than the Chevy 1500 UB, I have no way of knowing if it deserved or just Hummer Tax.

Sorry forgot the second part of the question, the H2/2500/3500 Half Shaft plugs right into the H3 Unit bearing.

I guess that first we should make sure that we are talking about the same part and that we are using the term 'hub' to mean 'unit bearing'?

I am referring to the hub/bearing assembly, like this one:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1390766



I have heard this before, in this thread and others, but am always curious under what conditions they are weak. Not trying to disagree, but people often time say parts are weak yet offer no examples or experiences/solutions as well.

I have never had a problem with mine. I have been on the same hubs/knuckles for 116k miles in 5 years. About 90K has been with 35" tires, wheeling, Moab, Rubicon and Fordyce, along with many other Sierra Trails. They sound great when you give them a spin, don't leak, but at this point I do carry a spare JIC.

I understand that 38's are bigger, but I have seen H2's run 37's and have over 100K miles and have never replaced a hub (and they wheel them).


I replaced hubs on my '00 Silverado 1500, 4x4, twice; First was an OE unit that failed, second was a Timken unit that failed. This was with 35" all-terrains and daily-driving; I did little to no wheeling with it, aside from some dirt roads/trails to the places I'd go ride ATV's.

My '03 2500HD also had a failed hub/bearing assembly at 80k miles, although it did have 37-41" tires for a good majority of it's life--No wheeling, though. Daily driver, show truck and trailer puller. It was an OE hub that failed.


Maybe the H3/H2 hubs are different than the GM 1500/2500/3500? I know we had to modify a GM 1/2 ton chevy hub to work on the H3 we repaired in Moab (we had to change the wheel studs because the shoulders were hitting the brake rotor).

I also know I drove home to NorCal from Ely Nv (400 mile) with no front axles. We had no issues with the bearings. A couple of folks we talked to after told us NEVER to do that again :D

I don't know why they would be different, or why the GM version of the part would fail more frequently before the Hummer parts.

I know the H3 UB is about $200.00 more than the Chevy 1500 UB, I have no way of knowing if it deserved or just Hummer Tax.

I haven't a clue unfortunately if the GMT-800 and GMT-900 hubs/bearing assemblies are the same as the H3... I'd imagine they're different as it's a different vehicle platform, but again I don't have any facts one way or another.

Just curious. That seems to be the only point that I am sticking on, but if you and your guys have thought that out already, sweet. Ya'll have done far more than I have, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to more progress pics and such. :smokin:

I am referring to the hub/bearing assembly, like this one:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1390766

I replaced hubs on my '00 Silverado 1500, 4x4, twice; First was an OE unit that failed, second was a Timken unit that failed. This was with 35" all-terrains and daily-driving; I did little to no wheeling with it, aside from some dirt roads/trails to the places I'd go ride ATV's.

My '03 2500HD also had a failed hub/bearing assembly at 80k miles, although it did have 37-41" tires for a good majority of it's life--No wheeling, though. Daily driver, show truck and trailer puller. It was an OE hub that failed.

I haven't a clue unfortunately if the GMT-800 and GMT-900 hubs/bearing assemblies are the same as the H3... I'd imagine they're different as it's a different vehicle platform, but again I don't have any facts one way or another.

Just curious. That seems to be the only point that I am sticking on, but if you and your guys have thought that out already, sweet. Ya'll have done far more than I have, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to more progress pics and such. :smokin:

Well it may be worth some investigating. I think the GM folks might be interested in running the Hummer Unit Bearings instead of the OEM product. They already love our wheels.:smokin:

Speedy, my BF just mentioned it could be the wheel offset? The Hummer H3 offset is 5.5". What is the OEM GM wheel offset?

Makes sense to me, if aftermarket wheels have less backspacing, then they could be adding more force to the unit bearing. Sounds like something worth looking into.

I just stumbled onto this one. Unbelievable craftsmanship can't wait to see how it turns out :smokin:

Well it may be worth some investigating. I think the GM folks might be interested in running the Hummer Unit Bearings instead of the OEM product. They already love our wheels.:smokin:

Speedy, my BF just mentioned it could be the wheel offset? The Hummer H3 offset is 5.5". What is the OEM GM wheel offset?

Makes sense to me, if aftermarket wheels have less backspacing, then they could be adding more force to the unit bearing. Sounds like something worth looking into.

I generally replace at least 1-2 unit bearings on GM fullsizes each week,from 1/2 ton to 1 ton,stock and lifted with big tires.Does not seem to matter,also range from 60k-150k+ miles and some are on there 3rd or 4th unit bearing.Same goes for the idler arm and pitman arms before they went to R&P steering in '07,very big money makers for me.

GM even recalled many of those unit bearings in some states due to severe corrosion in the ABS sensor area causing some very unsafe ABS operation.Seems water get's into the bearing very easily through the ABS sensor and that does no good for the sensor or the bearings.

I generally replace at least 1-2 unit bearings on GM fullsizes each week,from 1/2 ton to 1 ton,stock and lifted with big tires.Does not seem to matter,also range from 60k-150k+ miles and some are on there 3rd or 4th unit bearing.Same goes for the idler arm and pitman arms before they went to R&P steering in '07,very big money makers for me.

GM even recalled many of those unit bearings in some states due to severe corrosion in the ABS sensor area causing some very unsafe ABS operation.Seems water get's into the bearing very easily through the ABS sensor and that does no good for the sensor or the bearings.

Well then - there you have it, they must be entirely different unit bearings, I know the H3 has not had a recall on unit bearing, and I haven't seen anything about the H2 either.

Again since you have seen them in person, what size tires and offsets on the wheels are the most common?

Perfect that we have someone with experiences - Thank you for posting. :)

On second thought, since the unit bearing is not serviceable unlike a wheel bearing, I'm thinking 60k - 150K miles before replacement doesn't necessarily make them weak. Just a GM money maker.

I'm curious to know if the ball joints are service-able on the 1/2 ton - 1 ton GM Trucks. On the H3 you have to change the entire upper a-arm to change the ball joint ($300+), but on the lower 's you can replace just the ball joint.

Well then - there you have it, they must be entirely different unit bearings, I know the H3 has not had a recall on unit bearing, and I haven't seen anything about the H2 either.

Again since you have seen them in person, what size tires and offsets on the wheels are the most common?

Perfect that we have someone with experiences - Thank you for posting. :)

On second thought, since the unit bearing is not serviceable unlike a wheel bearing, I'm thinking 60k - 150K miles before replacement doesn't necessarily make them weak. Just a GM money maker.

I'm curious to know if the ball joints are service-able on the 1/2 ton - 1 ton GM Trucks. On the H3 you have to change the entire upper a-arm to change the ball joint ($300+), but on the lower 's you can replace just the ball joint.
That recall was not wide spread,only a few select salt belt states for certian years and why it is not heard of very much,but a very common issue.

Oh and almost all that I change are on 100% stock vehicles,stock wheels with stock sized tires,the few that are lifted are running 22"+ type rims with MT tires like Nitto's Mud Grapplers.Have one '04 1/2 ton GMC pickup that has a 12" lift and running 39" Boggers that is on his 10th set of front unit bearings in less then 20,000miles,just a street qween also,and sadly because of his tire size there is no warranty on parts.If done many H2's front unit bearings,I consider them a GM fullsize as they are only a 3/4ton tahoe with a different body.


Oh and yes the GM fullsizes still have greaseable balljoints,very rare these days.

Cool, then maybe the H3 is a different animal, but of the H2 owners I know, who wheel and run 37's, they have not replaced unit bearings, pitman and idler arms...pretty much annually, unit bearings, not yet.

The H2's you changed running non stock wheels? Still curious why.

I think maybe you could recommend to the guy who has the 1/2 ton to try a set of the H3 UB's and see if they last longer. It's a stretch - but it might work? I know they will fit. :) I also know a guy in Michigan where you can get them used with low miles. Might be worth the extra effort.

Cool, then maybe the H3 is a different animal, but of the H2 owners I know, who wheel and run 37's, they have not replaced unit bearings, pitman and idler arms...pretty much annually, unit bearings, not yet.

The H2's you changed running non stock wheels? Still curious why.

I think maybe you could recommend to the guy who has the 1/2 ton to try a set of the H3 UB's and see if they last longer. It's a stretch - but it might work? I know they will fit. :) I also know a guy in Michigan where you can get them used with low miles. Might be worth the extra effort.

Yeah haven't done any H3's or Canyons yet,maybe they are better but those big tires your running will shorten there life and if your aware and fine with it that's even better as you know what to expect.Then again not many H3's around here to begin with and almost everyone I've seen has 22"+ rims on them with $10,000 stereo systems in them.

All those H2's have been 100% stock,most are fleet vehicles around here in CO.Maybe just lack of caring,I couldn't really say.

That idiot with the 12" lifted 1/2 ton has more money then brains,not much use talking to him as he really doesn't care since it will not make his pickup look cooler.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2485.jpg
i love this build 1 question...... why did you use a front axle if you are not using the mounting point and it is a low pinion any ways?
seems kinda a waste to destroy a front axle when you could really use any axle.

It was free. :grinpimp:

That idiot with the 12" lifted 1/2 ton has more money then brains,not much use talking to him as he really doesn't care since it will not make his pickup look cooler.

LOL no but it could be cooler with Hummer hubs :laughing:

Seriously tho - thanks for your insight on the Hub sitch, like I've said before, this is an experiment, calculated and researched, but no less an experiment.

I think it's time for more pics :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2485.jpg
i love this build 1 question...... why did you use a front axle if you are not using the mounting point and it is a low pinion any ways?
seems kinda a waste to destroy a front axle when you could really use any axle.

It was free:smokin:

You don't see many people lining up to buy a dodge unit bearing front end so that's what it was worth anyways:barf:

But your right you could use any axle.Unfortunately a high pinion would not work for this build.

Did i mention it was free:D

More goodies arriving. 35 spline ARB, 5:13 R&P, and the 35 spline long side axle flange

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2497.jpg

Some extended Stainless steel custom Brake lines from Crown Performance

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2498.jpg


CAT Black Satin finish - a tough epoxy based aerosol

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2499.jpg


UCA's - on the table

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2506.jpg

Off the table and smokin

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2512.jpg

Center chunk painted up

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2545.jpg

Upper and Lower drivers side

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2544.jpg

Ride height

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2547.jpg

Full Compression

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2552.jpg

Pic of Knuckle and Mounts

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2556.jpg

Slightly late, but in regards to the front hubs, they seem to be rather hit or miss. My truck still has the 11 year old, 135,000 mile stockers which have been subjected to the stresses of 36 x 15.50s, while my brother's 05 bone stock 2WD with 35,000 miles has already had both replaced.

Well then - there you have it, they must be entirely different unit bearings, I know the H3 has not had a recall on unit bearing, and I haven't seen anything about the H2 either.


You're right, they are entirely different unit bearings on the H3/Colorado as the full-sizes, thus the question if the axle shafts would fit without modification. The Hummer 2 is the same platform (GMT-800) as the trucks 99-07.5. They use the same wheel hub/bearing assemblies; TIMKEN Part # SP580310 or equivalent.

It appears that the H3 unit bearing does not share the Colorado bearing, as Timken lists different part #'s for those two trucks' hub/bearing assemblies.


Again since you have seen them in person, what size tires and offsets on the wheels are the most common?


One set of wheels was about +12mm offset w/ a 4.5" backspace with 285/70R17's and 35x12.50R17's, and another were +10mm offset with a 4.5" backspacing and 35x12.50R17 tires.


I'm curious to know if the ball joints are service-able on the 1/2 ton - 1 ton GM Trucks. On the H3 you have to change the entire upper a-arm to change the ball joint ($300+), but on the lower 's you can replace just the ball joint.

The balljoints are not serviceable; The entire balljoint must be replaced. Both upper and lower balljoints can be removed from the UCA and LCA with a balljoint puller or press.

Well forget all this jazz, I see you have new progress pics. Lookin' badass!

More goodies arriving. 35 spline ARB, 5:13 R&P, and the 35 spline long side axle flange

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2497.jpg



Hmmm... the splines on that shaft look similar to mine...
http://www.fototime.com/80EE181B12857AE/standard.jpg
...I wonder if the same person made them? :laughing:

The station wagon is lookin' good, Bebe!

First of all I just stumbled on this thread and WOW what a great build! There is no doubt that Bebe has to have the most well done trail modified H3 out there I love it!

To address the questions about using the H2 parts for the H3. I have a pretty good understanding of the H2 parts she is using.

The H2 1/2 shafts will work just fine with 38's. I have been running 37's on my H2 for many years. With the H3 beeing 2 Thousand pounds lighter than the H2 this is a great set up. Not to mention you can swap an H2 1/2 shaft in the field alot faster than a H3 1/2 shaft.
I have a front locker, winch and Treehugger brush guard adding weight to my front axles. I have broken 1/2 shafts but usually I know when I am about to do it. The H2 1/2 shafts should be plenty strong in the H3. The only time you really hear about breaking a 1/2 shaft on an H2 is when VERY hard BTM'ing is going on or.... you have the front diff locked and all the weight of the truck on just 1 front axle.

The Hubs on the H2 are known for wearing out. I have 114K miles on my 03
H2 and I am on the 3rd set of Hubs. I wheel my truck HARD. Keep in mind a H2 is 1500lbs heavier than a 2500 series truck or tahoe and stock it runs 35 inch tires. So they are bound to wear out faster on a H2 than a 2500 truck. Replacement is easy enough though. The job can be done in less than 45 minutes with hand tools. I have never seen a Hub fail on the trail though.

Its not my intention to hijack the thread just add some knowledge about the parts Bebe is using to build this bassass H3!

I need to know more about the thinking on those A arms. The fab work is obviously gorgeous, and I like how you guys locked the things down in a fixture for welding. What I'm really curious about is why they're shaped so 3D. They don't look like flat planes at all. The central tube in the lower arm looks elevated and the upper appears to be an inverted mirror image. Is there some advantage, like stiffening the things with folds? Also, what thickness plate metal are they skinned with? are they plated only on the bottom or are they getting boxed in on top too?

Take more pictures!! :D

edit: I think I see it... is the central tube bent/angled to meet the kingpin inclination axis at around 90 degrees at ride height? That would make sense.

I think maybe you could recommend to the guy who has the 1/2 ton to try a set of the H3 UB's and see if they last longer. It's a stretch - but it might work? I know they will fit. :)

They won't fit if they're running stock wheels. The ring on the H3 hub is larger diameter to match the larger center bore of the wheels. Remember when I put the 1500 hub on mine, there was a gap.


Can't wait to see that thing in person in a couple weeks. :smokin:

I need to know more about the thinking on those A arms. The fab work is obviously gorgeous, and I like how you guys locked the things down in a fixture for welding. What I'm really curious about is why they're shaped so 3D. They don't look like flat planes at all. The central tube in the lower arm looks elevated and the upper appears to be an inverted mirror image. Is there some advantage, like stiffening the things with folds? Also, what thickness plate metal are they skinned with? are they plated only on the bottom or are they getting boxed in on top too?

Take more pictures!! :D

edit: I think I see it... is the central tube bent/angled to meet the kingpin inclination axis at around 90 degrees at ride height? That would make sense.




i think the arms are "bent" so the heims sit 90' to that big bolt holding them to the spindle assembly. the closer the heim sits to 90' the less likely the heim will bottom out as the arm cycles. i had similar issues with designing my ifs-the heim only has 34'.


and is that 1/8" wall for the arm dom?


edit: duh i see what u are saying. yea why the center tube not in plane?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2547.jpg


The way I see it is...

If you look at the ride height pic it shows that the center tube is bent to compensate for the bolt angle (Camber ???) in / of the knuckle...

Maybe someone from MFS can comment.

Nice build MFS, cool rig Bebe.

Edit: I also had to edit as I missed previouse Editing...

Camber is a front/back angle, while this is side-to-side.

I believe you'd call this "kingpin inclination angle", and it's job is to set "scrub radius" and induce some return-to-center behavior in the steering.

I can see how having the heims hit the bolts square at ride height would be valuable, especially if ride height is right in the middle of travel.

Subscribed definatly a nice looking build going on here man.

Camber is a front/back angle, while this is side-to-side.

I believe you'd call this "kingpin inclination angle", and it's job is to set "scrub radius" and induce some return-to-center behavior in the steering.

I can see how having the heims hit the bolts square at ride height would be valuable, especially if ride height is right in the middle of travel.

Camber = top of tire tipped in or out

Caster = Alignment of upper and Lower Ball Joint Pivots at Knuckle (ours is set at 7*)

KPI or King Pin Inclination= Angle of Upper and Lower Ball Joint in relation to WMS (wheel mounting surface)

Scrub Radius = distance from WMS axis to KPI axis/intersect

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:dXsYb-4BhwQFEM:http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/steering_axis.gif&t=1

The Center of the A-Arms are not flat to keep the radius of travel in a consistent arc. When using a tripod type joint this assists in reducing/minimizing plunge of the inner joint.

Both Upper and Lower OEM A-Arms had this same tip up at the end, I think we ended up at 14*. The Upper and Lower Mounts at the Knuckle are angled back towards the WMS. In order to keep the OEM radius, we followed the geometry.

i really do hate hummers. most of them around here are for mall wheelin with the 4-10" lifts and 20-24" wheels. i have had to pull out quite a few stockers at the local wheelin spots too. while i do know it is the drivers not the vehicles, i still dont care for them

HOWEVER

- bebe your is growing on me - :D i hope to see it on a trail soo so i can check it out for myself. :grinpimp:

The Center of the A-Arms are not flat to keep the radius of travel in a consistent arc. When using a tripod type joint this assists in reducing/minimizing plunge....

I'm not following this. I would think that the arc of your heims is determined by only the the pair of joints that connect the base of your a arms to the chassis

That thing is killer. Nice work! I'll be excited to keep watching this one:smokin:

I'm not following this. I would think that the arc of your heims is determined by only the the pair of joints that connect the base of your a arms to the chassis

The upper a-arm mount location (inner) is what determines plunge. It is on a direct plane (or slightly lower at the inner mount) at ride height with the upper a-arm center of pivot at the knuckle.

The outer heims are positioned the way they are to accommodate the OEM knuckle mounting surface so there is equal up travel and down travel from center. This assures that the travel of upper and lower is on similar arcs, and minimizes the pull/plunge on the axle as it travels throughout the arc.

HOWEVER

- bebe your is growing on me - :D i hope to see it on a trail soo so i can check it out for myself. :grinpimp:

Kewl :smokin:

Nice!

I generally replace at least 1-2 unit bearings on GM fullsizes each week,from 1/2 ton to 1 ton,stock and lifted with big tires.Does not seem to matter,also range from 60k-150k+ miles and some are on there 3rd or 4th unit bearing.Same goes for the idler arm and pitman arms before they went to R&P steering in '07,very big money makers for me.

GM even recalled many of those unit bearings in some states due to severe corrosion in the ABS sensor area causing some very unsafe ABS operation.Seems water get's into the bearing very easily through the ABS sensor and that does no good for the sensor or the bearings.

Just FYI, I have 106k miles on my Av 2500 (should be similar or the same to an H2) with original bearings (and original idler and pitman but I do have the Cognito kit) Still exceptionally tight. I heard bad things about the Ram 1500/2500 bearings too. But I never changed one of those in 130k miles either. I think Colorado is just easier on bearings then the NE. The Dodge had 35-42"s its whole life. (wheeled once or twice too).

Av tows heavy a lot, wheeled lightly, 265s though so no real tire stress.

Anyway, nice build Bebe, keep pushing the envelope.

.If done many H2's front unit bearings,I consider them a GM fullsize as they are only a 3/4ton tahoe with a different body.




Was there ever a 3/4 ton Tahoe with a Tahoe body? As far as I know the 3/4 ton Av and Sub were the smallest 3/4 tons on the market until the H2 appeared. I still haven't seen a 3/4 ton Yukon/Tahoe (other then the Sub sized Yukon XL).


Just saying the H2 is unique vehicle with parts from the GM parts bin.

Very very very nice H3 build. Im a grocery getter owner as well, (grand cherokee), so your hummers are my main competition. Subscribing to keep an eye on you!! We dont need more H3 owners figuring out they can wheel! haha. Nice work.

Was there ever a 3/4 ton Tahoe with a Tahoe body? As far as I know the 3/4 ton Av and Sub were the smallest 3/4 tons on the market until the H2 appeared. I still haven't seen a 3/4 ton Yukon/Tahoe (other then the Sub sized Yukon XL).


Just saying the H2 is unique vehicle with parts from the GM parts bin.

They took a Tahoe frame,welded those bars on the frame rails,then stuffed 3/4 ton drivetrain from a 3/4 ton Suburban/Yukon under it with a box on top.Yep 100% pure GM and can get drivetrain parts using the same year Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban as the referrence at any parts store.They just bought the name,AM General was a seperate company still with the HMMWV(H1) as there vehicle.

Very nice build. Now slap a 4.5L CR Cummins in it and you're all set! haha

Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Very nice build. Can wait to see it on its own weight. :smokin:

Very nice build, way to push IFS to another level.

Subscribed! :)

Based on my username it's been a long time since I posted here, needs updating:laughing:

Been following your build Bebe and love what you, speedy and crew have been doing. A friend down here has been pushing me to do a SAS since I had the '06, forwarded him a link to the thread to show him there might very well be a better option. I call shotgun if/when I get back out there this year, should be about the first of May:smokin:

Based on my username it's been a long time since I posted here, needs updating:laughing:

Been following your build Bebe and love what you, speedy and crew have been doing. A friend down here has been pushing me to do a SAS since I had the '06, forwarded him a link to the thread to show him there might very well be a better option. I call shotgun if/when I get back out there this year, should be about the first of May:smokin:

Thanks Mark, you got it...I think we'll head out to Reno this time, do a little desert run.

I can't wait.:)

Thanks Mark, you got it...I think we'll head out to Reno this time, do a little desert run.

I can't wait.:)
Sounds like a blast to me, can't wait. I love getting out there and seeing the different areas you guys get to wheel, let alone all the great company:)

Drivers side took a lot less time to build, ARB and front diff are installed, so here is a front on shot...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2573.jpg


so you can see how the 38's fit:

Full compression

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2568.jpg

Ride Height

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2569.jpg

Full Droop

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2570.jpg

Front corner view at ride height

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2571.jpg

This pic shows the tire width

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/IMG_2565.jpg

Looking good...:smokin:

Sick, the perportions are perfect! GM ought to take some notes.....

Any trimming needed, going lock to lock at full stuff? It may be a little close on the bumper side.

I have no idea what the scrub radius ended up being. ;)

Edit: Shaped tie rods?

looks awesome Bebe! Hope to see it in action soon.

Looks good, Can't wait to see it up close

That looks great, even better than I expected. I am amazed the 38s fit so well but also remember how small the 35s looked on the back after the spring over was done. So when can I order this as a kit from you:D

Any trimming needed, going lock to lock at full stuff? It may be a little close on the bumper side.

No trimming required. I still have to make the rack stops once I have the shocks, bumps and limit straps installed. I have a very close tolerance on tie rod heim @ the knuckle.



I have no idea what the scrub radius ended up being. ;)

Stock H3 with the exception of the tire diameter which will add negative scrub (minimal)



Edit: Shaped tie rods?

Damn Jon, nothing escapes you! Still working out an issue with the change in toe at full droop/compression. Should have it figured out today. The tie rods will have a 9.5 degree bend at the outer heim to center the heim at ride height with the stock knuckle tie rod mount angle.

Give me a call at the shop when you get a minute.

Jeff

great build keep it coming love the way this H3 is coming

Oh....Jeff just sent me some bling pics :-)

2 inch Fox Coilovers (12 inch travel shocks)
Tender coils
Dust Covers
Fox Bumps with cans

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/bling.jpg

These will get installed this weekend.So we will be building hoops and mounting the Bumps.

Once we get the truck on the ground, we will be able to weigh it and or the coil springs for the shock.

Then when the Trans and PCM come back next week, we will be able to ramp it, and figure out what type of adjustments are needed in the rear suspension, and how much travel we can get out of it. Then we will order the Fox Shocks for the rear.

Oh yeah, and a huge shout out to Tommy @ Poly Performance, I ordered this yesterday and it was at the shop by noon today. Sick Service....Sick!

Bebe. Looks sick.

Very cool!

So this next post is going to be H3 specific.

The H3 Adventure Package comes with the BW4493 4:1 Transfer case and an Eaton E-Locker. To date I think they are the only OEM vehicles that did this from the Factory. So the part number is a GM Part number. However, Eaton does make this same locker for their aftermarket, and it fits in both the AAM 850 and 860 rear 10 Bolt GM Corp rear ends.

Well if you break a side gear, and it chews up the center pin (I think when Jeff e-mailed it to me he said it reminded him of a Lady in Rio Linda) :laughing: :

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/SideGearCarnage.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Bebes%20boyhowdy%20IFS/CrossPin.jpg

Everyone meaning Randy's ring and pinion and West Coast will tell you, that because it's for an H3 you need to order a whole new locker. Unless of course you know a very resourceful Lady who thinks it's total BS and calls Eaton directly :D

They wanted to tell me I was using it wrong, and that I had been beating on it, my tires are too big (35's) and that I didn't use it properly. (SO what?) I just told him all I needed were the side gears and the pin, and that's all I wanted to buy. He asked me to hold, came back and gave me a part number for an aftermarket kit. :D

SO all you H3 folks reading this: you do not have to buy a new locker ($800.00) from GM if you break a side gear, you can buy kit # 29296-00S for $150.00. :flipoff2:

Just call West Coast Differentials and ask for Jay - he'll know exactly what you are talking about. :mr-t:

awesome build ... subscribed :D