How are you doing this?

This is a new rule this year for Calrocs, not sure how im going to do this one yet?

I use an alum tank from Howe. It's completly sealedand does not leak when inverted.


http://www.trailtoys.com/geiger/0180.jpg

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
I use an alum tank from Howe. It's completly sealedand does not leak when inverted.


http://www.trailtoys.com/geiger/0180.jpg


That thing is HUGE!!
Where are those available, and the cost on that?

They come as part of the Howe steering system that we sell, but I think they might sell them separately. Give them a call.

Thanks Chris....I did a search on this...

http://www.off-roadproducts.com/power_steering_reservoir_w_filter.html

THey sell these for 150 each....

Anyone have a cheaper solution?

Originally posted by RudeZuk
Thanks Chris....I did a search on this...

http://www.off-roadproducts.com/power_steering_reservoir_w_filter.html

THey sell these for 150 each....

Anyone have a cheaper solution?


i'll send ya a pic in a few day's dude... you'll love it :D

I'm planning on welding the top shut and running a vent line and filler line with a sealable cap.

this might work with a welded cap,cheep too.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=17719

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
They come as part of the Howe steering system that we sell, but I think they might sell them separately. Give them a call.

Chris, any idea what they mean by saying: TC-pump--?

is that a Toyota ps pump?

--Sherpa

Originally posted by DSI



i'll send ya a pic in a few day's dude... you'll love it :D

No no, don't send it, post it here! :D

Originally posted by SHERPA


Chris, any idea what they mean by saying: TC-pump--?

is that a Toyota ps pump?

--Sherpa

it is the style of pump that howe uses. basically a gm remote resivoir pump that has been modified for AN fittings and higher pressure and flow than a stock pump.

look back at chris picture. that is the TC pump

Camo,
thanks for that info.

another quesiton:

does the shaft of that p/s pump (gm remote resevoir) go all the

way thru the pump assy? (as in: does the "aft" end of that

pump shaft stick out past the end of the pump housing?

--And, Camo, when you say "modified for AN fittings", do

you mean those screw-in adapters I can see in the pics?

--is that all that is required to run AN fittings?

--Sherpa

thanks.

My neighbor owns a shop that makes rack and pinions for a lot of race teams. His shop is called Appleton power rack and pinion, in Minooka Illinois.

He makes a remote resevoir similar to the Howe setup except the tank body is made of extruded aluminum with fins all around for additional cooling. It has the same spin on filter on the bottom. It's just a little shorter than the Howe setup. I think his retail price is $130. I can post his number is anyone is interested. I'm running one on my YJ and love it. Maybe he'll run a special?

Originally posted by lt1yj
My neighbor owns a shop that makes rack and pinions for a lot of race teams. His shop is called Appleton power rack and pinion, in Minooka Illinois.

He makes a remote resevoir similar to the Howe setup except the tank body is made of extruded aluminum with fins all around for additional cooling. It has the same spin on filter on the bottom. It's just a little shorter than the Howe setup. I think his retail price is $130. I can post his number is anyone is interested. I'm running one on my YJ and love it. Maybe he'll run a special?

Yes please post!!

ANd post a pic too!

Look in summit or I have had good luck with day motorsports, the gm pump is "good" to a point. You can get brand new aftermarket pump usually kirker(?) or like RCR high vol, alum pump with simple mounting bracket, remote resavour, and an fitting etc... sounds exspensive but its all new and simple to hook up.... once you start playing with AN stuff you wonder why the rest of the world has to be so difficult.... Then you can go zany with the coolers, remout mounts etc....

They have this kit on sale for ~$230 ish summit also has similer pricing.... some of the kits even come with the AN adapters to fit the GM 16/18mm o-ring -> AN then ~$30 for some an-6 hose and your all hooked up with off the self quality parts.... Id dump the large pully though :-)
http://www.daymotorsports.com/images/product/PowerSteeringKit.jpg

-yag

Just talked to Station.....He has the hook up on these sealed units!

An inline filter that is sealed with a pressure guage that holds 3/4's of a quart of fluid!

25 Bucks!!!

Buy up:D

Thanks Station:beer:

Hey Rude, I just checked, and the filter+ head actually holds 1 full quart .

The head has 3/4" NPTF ports, and has a port for a pressure indicator(The indicator is included for the $25 price) that lets you know when the filter is needing to be changed.

The filter has a 10 micron element.

Thanks for the order Shane.

Sean

Station,

That filter tank sounds good. How does it attach? Size? Got pics?

Thanks,
Paul

Yea, throw a pic up here and give us a visual.

I will try to get a pic up tomorrow.

Sean

Where is that pic at sean??
Also could you PM me your Paypal info? I left it at work....

Thanks:D

Originally posted by RudeZuk


Yes please post!!

ANd post a pic too!

Sorry it took so long.

Appleton can be reached at (815)467-1179.

They also have a website:

http://www.appletonrackandpinion.com/

Here's the link to just the cooler/resevoir/filter:

http://www.appletonrackandpinion.com/Coolers%20.0.html





I'd like to see pics of this $25 setup too!!!!

Another waiting for the pic of the $25 solution :D

Originally posted by bigdude
Another waiting for the pic of the $25 solution :D

Nag, nag, how bought a $20.99 solution, still need to work on the a vent line, might add 4 bucks in cost.

Moroso Weld-In Fill Cap

Universal applications including rear end fill cap and inspection port, power steering, overflow tank fill cap, etc. Features screw-in cap with 1-1/4''-12 UNF, O-ring, and 1-1/2'' o.d. weld-in bung.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2752&prmenbr=361

Man, I have got to get my own digital camera. The one I was counting on borrowing(from work) has not been out of town. Shane, one will be at your house in a few days to take pictures of if I can not get them first.

I am also dying to get some pictures up of my Mog axles, but can't do that either.

Time for me to go read though all the threads about which digital camera to get.

Very sorry guys. This setup is a good buy at $25 though. You are not just getting a little cap like the above picture, you are getting a filter head that is plumbs into your return line, a 10 micron filter, an a little guage that lets you know when it is time to change the filter.

Sean

Originally posted by Station
Man, I have got to get my own digital camera. The one I was counting on borrowing(from work) has not been out of town. Shane, one will be at your house in a few days to take pictures of if I can not get them first.

I am also dying to get some pictures up of my Mog axles, but can't do that either.

Time for me to go read though all the threads about which digital camera to get.

Very sorry guys. This setup is a good buy at $25 though. You are not just getting a little cap like the above picture, you are getting a filter head that is plumbs into your return line, a 10 micron filter, an a little guage that lets you know when it is time to change the filter.

Sean

How does the kit seal the box? Does it have a vent line on it also?

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


How does the kit seal the box? Does it have a vent line on it also?

Joe

No it is not vented, it is full of fluid. Fluid comes in one port , goes through the filter, then out the other port.
Also, it is not really a kit. It is just a filter head with a large 1qt , 10 micron filter.
Seal the box???

Seal the box???

yes, there needs to be some way to seal a p/s pump reservoir (like a sag unit or others) so it wouldn't leak when the vehicle is upside down...

- jack

Originally posted by morpheus


yes, there needs to be some way to seal a p/s pump reservoir (like a sag unit or others) so it wouldn't leak when the vehicle is upside down...

- jack

No, this is a stand alone unit. This will not seal your steering pump(I was confused by "box").

I found this pic on the net, of almost exactly what I have minus the pressure guage.
http://bestenterprises.net/images/parts_hyd_oil_filter_wtop_new.jpg

Sean

Station,

Off topic but could that be used as an auto trans filter? I'd like to add one to my tow rig in the oil cooler line.

Do you know what the pressure drop across the filter unit is?

Can you send me a pic of the $25 unit when you get a camera?

Originally posted by morpheus


yes, there needs to be some way to seal a p/s pump reservoir (like a sag unit or others) so it wouldn't leak when the vehicle is upside down...

- jack

Morp, go back to the first page, down at the bottom I posted a link and pic to a weld on cap from Moroso.

Originally posted by lt1yj
Station,

Off topic but could that be used as an auto trans filter? I'd like to add one to my tow rig in the oil cooler line.

Do you know what the pressure drop across the filter unit is?

Can you send me a pic of the $25 unit when you get a camera?

Looks just like the picture above.
Yes, this would work for that.
I would probably use a 25 micron filter element for an auto trans though. Not a problem. A 25 micron filter should be a couple of bucks cheaper too.


Sean

Where do you get a cross reference for micron rating?

Originally posted by lt1yj
Where do you get a cross reference for micron rating?

I just notice while reading back trhough the thread that I fogot to answer one of your questions above. ABout pressure drop through the filter. Prssure drop is pretty low with a fresh filter ~3psi at the flow of a power steering pump. The flow will bypass the filter at , I believe, 15.5 psi .

What kind of cross reference do you mean? Beta rating?

Sean

I meant filter part number with micron rating. There should be several filters that fit a certain mount with different micron ratings.

Say I wanted 10 micron for a cleanout on a new system but would run 25 for normal application. Or use the same filter body but a 50 micron for a different application. How can I find out what part number is 10, 25 or 50? Is this info on line somewhere?

Thanks!

Paul

Oh yes, I have a catalog for the brand that I carry(Zinga). I could get you any of the numbers that you wanted. All of the mircron ratings that you mentianed are available to fit this filter head, and in the same size(there are different sizes available too). I reccomend the 10 micron for a hydraulic steering system, because the orbitrol valves can be ultra picky about having clean fluid. But I could get you a filter with any micron rating/ canister size that you might want for any other purpose. Or I could get you any of the part numbers that you would want. Normally you could get the numbers from Zinga's web site, but it seem to not be working right now.

Sean

here is a pic with the Guage on it too:D

Thanks Station!

Shane,
Glad to see that your parts made it safely.

Thanks for the picture(click save as).

Look forward to seeing your new buggy getting it with your hydraulic steering out on the trail.

Thanks,
Sean

what do the #'s on the gauge represent? i hope its not PSI....

most automotive filters have a 10-15psi bypass valve, so at 15psi differential across the filter, the bypass opens and your oil doesn't filter.

more info on the guage please...and how its plumbed in (in relation to flow).

thanks!

matt

Originally posted by jeepnmatt
what do the #'s on the gauge represent? i hope its not PSI....

most automotive filters have a 10-15psi bypass valve, so at 15psi differential across the filter, the bypass opens and your oil doesn't filter.

more info on the guage please...and how its plumbed in (in relation to flow).

thanks!

matt

For the flow I do know that it is placed in line with your return line back to your pump.
I plan on using this instead of the current resevior.

I'm still having a little trouble visualizing how it takes the place of the resevoir. Doesn't the pump shaft extend into the resevoir?
Thanks
Rob

Originally posted by broncorob
I'm still having a little trouble visualizing how it takes the place of the resevoir. Doesn't the pump shaft extend into the resevoir?
Thanks
Rob

Not when you have a divorced resivior.... Take a look at Sidekick or Toyota power steering.

Originally posted by broncorob
I'm still having a little trouble visualizing how it takes the place of the resevoir. Doesn't the pump shaft extend into the resevoir?
Thanks
Rob

I don't think it does, unless you plump the filter directly into the pump but then you still need a reservoir

RudeZuk, if you are going to use that instead of a reservoir.......where will you fill it with fluid??

I will fill the filter before i screw it on, then on the other side from the guage...There is a opening there with a allen screw in it....I can top it off from there...

Prolly a little tricky the first time, but it cant leak from anywhere after that!

Originally posted by RudeZuk
I will fill the filter before i screw it on, then on the other side from the guage...There is a opening there with a allen screw in it....I can top it off from there...

Prolly a little tricky the first time, but it cant leak from anywhere after that!

Gotcha..are you going to run a cooler??

Well after putting everything under the hood.....This thing is too BIG.......So im looking for other options...

Anyone use anything like this??
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/cat_images/37152.jpg

They are about $60 at online race shops...

Man , I am sorry to find out that you couldn't make the filter work for you. Whatever you do, you should try to incorporate a filter(smaller if it has to be) in your steering somewhere as it is just generally a good idea.

I hope you can find a way to make that one work for you.

Sean

Station, got the filter today. Thanks a lot.

Question....Does a hydro steering system have to have a vent line somewhere?

Or can I use this filter as a reservoir and leave the system completely sealed?

If it does need a vent what is the best way to do that?

Originally posted by jeepnmatt
what do the #'s on the gauge represent? i hope its not PSI....



I think it is the DeltaP, or differential pressure, drop across the filter element.

-Brett

Originally posted by convertiyota
Station, got the filter today. Thanks a lot.

Question....Does a hydro steering system have to have a vent line somewhere?

Or can I use this filter as a reservoir and leave the system completely sealed?

If it does need a vent what is the best way to do that?


Thank you....

Yes, you need to have a vent somewhere , becuase the level of fluid in your resivoir is not constant. Well, the best way depends on what you want. Normally the fill cap is the vent on a Saginaw. Some of the rockcrawling events are making it mandatory to run a completely sealed up rig with all vent lines running to a catch can(which then has to be vented;) ). The cap on the power steering pump doesn't really leak at all when you flip it over. I wouldn't worry about doing anything with it unless you plan to compete in a series that requires it.

Originally posted by cruiserbrett


I think it is the DeltaP, or differential pressure, drop across the filter element.

-Brett

Yes that is what the guage is measuring. I just noticed when looking back at the picture that I somehow sent the wrong guage. The filter bypasses at 15psi. The guage that Rude has will still work but any number above 15 will be useless.

Sean

Use a diaphram = No vents, no spillage.

Originally posted by bgreen
Use a diaphram = No vents, no spillage.
can you give some more details?

Imagine putting a balloon over the top of your power steering res. When the fluid expanded or contracted due to heat, or cyling through the ram, the baloon would account for the expansion or contraction.

I wouldnt use a balloon, but something of that nature would definately do the trick. Go to Trico Mfg. (http://www.tricomfg.com/)

something like this... http://www.tricomfg.com/store/Images/Product_Info/expansion%20chamber.jpg

Originally posted by bgreen
Imagine putting a balloon over the top of your power steering res. When the fluid expanded or contracted due to heat, or cyling through the ram, the baloon would account for the expansion or contraction.

I wouldnt use a balloon, but something of that nature would definately do the trick. Go to Trico Mfg. (http://www.tricomfg.com/)

something like this... http://www.tricomfg.com/store/Images/Product_Info/expansion%20chamber.jpg

That is a seriously sweet idea Brook. This would give you a truly closed system with no chance of a leak. Now just have to find out how much the fluid level changes in a steering pump hooked to a single ended hydraulic cylinder.


BJ On Roids-"can you give some more details?"

Thak a look at the underside of the cap on your brake mastercylinder. The diaphram makes up for fluid level changes in the resivoir without causing excessive negative/positive pressure.

Sean

Originally posted by bgreen
Imagine putting a balloon over the top of your power steering res. When the fluid expanded or contracted due to heat, or cyling through the ram, the baloon would account for the expansion or contraction.

I wouldnt use a balloon, but something of that nature would definately do the trick. Go to Trico Mfg. (http://www.tricomfg.com/)

something like this... http://www.tricomfg.com/store/Images/Product_Info/expansion%20chamber.jpg


Since there is only one port on that would you run it off of a 'T' on the return line or.......??

Here's a direct link to dimensions and price....
http://www.tricomfg.com/store/ProdOrder.asp?ProdLineID=5&ProdSeg=FluidProtection

You guys musta missed it the first time

From this post
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96652


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1028095

Originally posted by jdjanda
You guys musta missed it the first time

From this post
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96652


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1028095

We must have missed what?

What we are talking about is not a sealed cap, with a vent line running to a container.
This is a diaphram that would go directly onto the pump resivoir, and make for a completely sealed system without much trouble.
A better idea than a vent line running to a container IMO.

convertiyota...
The diaphram would go on the resivoir. It would not work on the retun line, as you do not want any presure on it.

But as I said earlier, unless you are planning to compete in a series that requires this, then don't worry about it. You probably have your steering pump off for your buildup? Take the pump, put some fluid in it and turn it upside down. It takes several minutes just to build up a drop on the edge of the cap(Mine does anyay).

The only other advantage I could see to running a completely sealed system is if you plan on putting the engine underwater for for than a few minutes at a time. Which is another situation that the catch can idea would be BAD for. The catch can could fill up with water. Possibly releasing it's contents into the water. Another possibility is that the water in the catch can could be sucked through the vent lines, and into the vented parts of the vehicle.

Sean

Originally posted by Station


We must have missed what?

What we are talking about is not a sealed cap, with a vent line running to a container.
This is a diaphram that would go directly onto the pump resivoir, and make for a completely sealed system without much trouble.
A better idea than a vent line running to a container IMO.

convertiyota...
The diaphram would go on the resivoir. It would not work on the retun line, as you do not want any presure on it.

But as I said earlier, unless you are planning to compete in a series that requires this, then don't worry about it. You probably have your steering pump off for your buildup? Take the pump, put some fluid in it and turn it upside down. It takes several minutes just to build up a drop on the edge of the cap(Mine does anyay).

The only other advantage I could see to running a completely sealed system is if you plan on putting the engine underwater for for than a few minutes at a time. Which is another situation that the catch can idea would be BAD for. The catch can could fill up with water. Possibly releasing it's contents into the water. Another possibility is that the water in the catch can could be sucked through the vent lines, and into the vented parts of the vehicle.

Sean

Sean the product you have I am under the impression is an in-line filter setup? The reservoir must be sealed for CalRocs with vent tube into a catch can. This was my solution to the problem, I also doubt the diaphragm is going to allow enough expansion for power steering. The fluid gets dam hot and expands enough to boil over. I've had enough steering problems to not want to pressurize a portion of the system that is not designed to be. Yes I agree that not much fluid is going to leak but back to the intent of the post by RudeZuk, was a cheap solution to meet CalRoc requirements.

Joe

Originally posted by bgreen
Imagine putting a balloon over the top of your power steering res. When the fluid expanded or contracted due to heat, or cyling through the ram, the baloon would account for the expansion or contraction.

I wouldnt use a balloon, but something of that nature would definately do the trick. Go to Trico Mfg. (http://www.tricomfg.com/)

something like this... http://www.tricomfg.com/store/Images/Product_Info/expansion%20chamber.jpg
good work!!

thanks champ

PBB: the breakfast of champions!!! :D

actually thats not a bad sig line ;)

Originally posted by jdjanda


Sean the product you have I am under the impression is an in-line filter setup? The reservoir must be sealed for CalRocs with vent tube into a catch can. This was my solution to the problem, I also doubt the diaphragm is going to allow enough expansion for power steering. The fluid gets dam hot and expands enough to boil over. I've had enough steering problems to not want to pressurize a portion of the system that is not designed to be. Yes I agree that not much fluid is going to leak but back to the intent of the post by RudeZuk, was a cheap solution to meet CalRoc requirements.

Joe

First off, I just want to say, that I wasn't trying to say that there is anything wrong with the way that you did yours. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful either, as that is not the kind of pesdon that I am.

I was just pointing out to you the difference in what you were showing us, and what we were talking about. We weren't missing anything, we just had moved on to other options.

Yes, the product that was mentioned that I sell earlier is an inline filter, which adds a quart of oil capacity to your steering system.

These oil diaphams above(which I do NOT sell) displace 16 cubic inches. The shaft side of a 2"x8"x1.125" has a 17.1 cubic inch volume. So these diaphrams can displace almost the entire shaft side of an ordinary steering cylinder. I think that that is plenty.

I think these things would be a sweet setup, and something that people who are fitting the rule books for a competition series should look into. It is a fairly compact(I am sure that there are more compact versions of similar products), totally sealed solution that can easily be added to a power steering pump.

It is just a way cool option that I am glad tha bgreen thought of, because it is a very smart idea, that I probably never would have though of.


Sean

The fluid gets dam hot and expands enough to boil over. I've had enough steering problems to not want to pressurize a portion of the system that is not designed to be

1) Pressurizing a fluid will raise the boiling point.

B) The diaphram will not increase the pressure enough to cause a problem. This is exactly what they were designed to do.

4) If your fluid is getting that hot, you have other problems that need to be addressed before you worry about venting problems.

8) if one diaphram isnt enough, use two.

side note: Im looking at putting one of these diaphrams on a common headder and running all my vents into it. Also, maybe one of their desicants too. When I bought the rig my dana 60 was in, I pulled the diff, only to find rust from the oil line up. This would completely prevent that, and add a cool "What the Fawk Is THAT" factor. :D :D :D

http://www.tricomfg.com/store/Images/Product_Info/P12.jpg