Ok then, I have searched, quite a bit, and have done lots of reading, but I am still learning. I'm only 18, so let's get the newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: out of the way now.

I want to swap in a set of about '84 F-150 axles front and rear, D44 and a 9". I believe the 44 is a HP, but not of consequence at the moment. I've pretty well got the 9" logistics taken care of. The front 44 though I have questions about, particularly steering. I have read an extensive page on hy-steer and the likes, but it does not really reference TJ's. So what is the stock steering on a ford d44? What would be my best bet as to incorporate my TJ steering to this axle? I believe the TJ is an inverted T, or maybe it's a Y, I can't remember. I think crossover would be the easiest, but would this mean I would need to get flat knuckles? Sorry, any help on this would be great.

you sure you searched?

'84 ford f150

TTB front and an 8.8 rear would be a shitty swap, but go for it :rolleyes:

For the steering search on 85 Blazer steering parts.

Second, stay away from the 1980 and axles on a Ford, they are IFS and JUNK. (unless your running high speed racing) Look for a 73-77 Ford front axle. Much easier swap!

73-77 ford front axle? also junk unless your getting new axle shafts.

78-79 ford or wagoneer.

mikey- weren't you the guy who was going to swap in toyota axles but didnt know what an angle grinder was?

No, I'm definitely not swapping in Toy axles. CJ-5, that post was made while very drunk. Also, I'm not using a HP 9" so it will be a true 9", I said I thought it was the d44 that is HP. 78-79 ford d44 front end would be the best bet then huh?

Mr. N: When you mentioned 80's axles on a ford, did you mean just a front end or are the rear 9" junk too? Right didn't even think about the IFS thing, good call. Will search the blazer steering stuff.

Oh, does anyone know of any just plain write-ups of someone swapping in a front d44 in a TJ (guess it could be a YJ too)?

You still drunk? :D :flipoff2:

Im only wondering how he's gonna magically make the 8.8 out of that 84 F-150 turn into a 9"..
Scott

If you cut a little less than a 1/4" off your tape measure a Ford 8.8 IS a 9" :flipoff2:

Wow, I'm glad y'all actually said something, cause whenever I search car-parts.com there were two types of rear ends put in f-150's post '84, the 8.8 and a 9" with removable carrier. So, what does anyone have to say about this? Should I be looking in the late 70's F-100's for a d44 front and 9" rear 65" wide?

:rolleyes: I am trippin or do people get dumber around here daily?you may have done a search but you sure as hell didn't do it right.



Hey newbie you need a 78-79 ford F-150 it will have a 44HP front end and a 9" rear. 73-77 will work as well. And yes they are 65"


Trailhawg

That's what you get for searching car-parts.com mikey.

He probably needs pics to clarify the suggestion of '78-79 F150 HP44 and 9". Whoops there's the same suggestion again.:eek:

I think a 78-79 f-150 would be a HP44 that you could use:flipoff2:

Originally posted by GPN Family
:rolleyes: I am trippin or do people get dumber around here daily?

Trailhawg

You are not trippin. ;) And BTW newbie.....BrettM has the axle you need for sale right now.

that front ford 1/2 ton front end has those big c-shape radius arm castings. seems like it would be a real bitch to get the TJ linkage on it, but what do i know, it's probably been done.

i would guess the ford knuckles are flat top too so, just go with a simple high-clearance steering on the 44. you have to buy are fabricate the arms. there are a crap-loads of write ups out there. i used the tie-road that came on my full width chevy 44. and homemade a drag link with some 1/4 wall dom.

i got the rear 9" for you if you decide to go this route (79' Bronco)
probably could sell you the front 44 off the same truck too.

Originally posted by GPN Family
I think a 78-79 f-150 would be a HP44 that you could use:flipoff2: What are you drunk too?

The 78-79 is a junk axle, stay away unless you use the Ford coils!
You can not shorten this axle or swap brackets. Stay far away from GPN
edit -> Check out my pic.
http://littlekeylime.com/MrN/Dana44templocation/images/Dana44/dana4478-79axle2.jpg Also, search teh Ford section if you want a Dana 44 Reverse Spiral.

Originally posted by Mr.N
What are you drunk too?

The 78-79 is a junk axle, stay away unless you use the Ford coils!
You can not shorten this axle or swap brackets. Stay far away from GPN


Alot of people use these axles and why would you want to shorten it? Narrowing axles blows shit. BTW If I was drunk I wouldnt Have been so nice.:flipoff2: And who really gives a shit about that? you some kinda church mouse

Originally posted by jimmy hat
i would guess the ford knuckles are flat top too so, just go with a simple high-clearance steering on the 44.
The only Reverse Spiral Dana 44 that MAY have ever came with flat top knucles is the 77-79 suber cab with 5 on 5.5".i

OK why could I not put new bracketry in there? I wouldn't shorten it, so no problem there. Mr. N, what front axle would you suggest using then? I want to use 5x5.5 (to match the 9" rear that I want to use), 65", and a d44? So where would you suggest I look for one? Do F-100's use the same axles as F-150's?

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
Mr. N: When you mentioned 80's axles on a ford, did you mean just a front end or are the rear 9" junk too? Right didn't even think about the IFS thing, good call. Will search the blazer steering stuff. I've seen a 9" on a 84 Ford, have a good friend that has seen them as late as 86. It's all a Ford thing with extra parts and the plant. However the last 9" axle produced by Ford was 79.

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
OK why could I not put new bracketry in there? I wouldn't shorten it, so no problem there. Mr. N, what front axle would you suggest using then? I want to use 5x5.5 (to match the 9" rear that I want to use), 65", and a d44? So where would you suggest I look for one? Do F-100's use the same axles as F-150's? Like I said, Look for a 73-77 Ford front axle. Yes the F100 and F150 axles are the same, except for the super cab.

Originally posted by GPN Family

Alot of people use these axles and why would you want to shorten it? Narrowing axles blows shit. BTW If I was drunk I wouldnt Have been so nice.:flipoff2: And who really gives a shit about that? you some kinda church mouse Why, can you say quarter inch inner tube? I can. that;s why I trashed one.
Chruch mouse, you bet I'm an old fasion Catholic :D
BTW I'm drunk n:flipoff2:

And the supercab difference is what you mentioned above? Don't worry, I'm going to go shut my head in a door for you in just a minute. I guess flat top knuckles are not an option to look for then, I'll just have to put some pieces together.

Use the knuckles off of a 3/4 ton ford. They are flat top and all of the brakes and shit will fit on them.

I went with a 79 HP bronco axle, but would not recomment it, I had to build the spring mount, half on the diff, and half on the cast in radius arm mounts, with the thin wimpy 1" piece of tube right under it. It works, but even with my reinforcement, it probably ain't the strongest. Building TJ braketry, or any type of link suspensionn would be a pain.

Go with the earlier 70's ford fronts (the radius arm mounts are welded on, and can be ground off), knock off everything outside the inner knuckle (it's all drum brake I believe). Then get everything outside the inner knuckle from a chevy, and buy a new ford rotor, and hub assembly for each side if you want 5 on 5 1/2"

Avoid the earlier 9" I don't know the details, but they aren't as strong as newer '78 and later ones, smaller bearings, and sometimes small spline counts. Good ones will be 31 spline.

Chad

A little searching and you could have found this:

http://www.bc4x4.com/pv/tj/tj.cfm


Should answer most of your questions.

Vince

OK so a little more searching and I've decided on this:

78-79 F-150 Rear 9"
- Disc Brake setup from a '78 Lincoln Mark
- Use CJ-7 rotors to retain 5x5.5 pattern

73-77 F-150 front HP d44
- Cross-over steering
- Flat Knuckles from 73-77 Chevy / GM 1/2 ton 4X4 (passenger side will need to be drilled and tapped)
- Steering Arms from Rockstomper made for chevy knuckles with tapered washers
- Tri-Country Gear For Mounting Hardware
- 85 Blazer TRE’s for Tie Rod and Drag Link
- Use DOM tubing to make tie rod and drag link
- Warn Hubs
- New Ball Joints, Spindle Seals, Wheel Bearings
- Somehow incorporate a Steering Stabilizer if I need one


I think I can use the stock callipers and rotors, it will be 5x5.5. What kind of problems will I have with brake lines (I have RE stainless steel ones)? I will get brackets welded on by Sunray. Any problems with this plan?

Just a side note, I like how many of you here were bitching at me for being a newbie, and then were wrong about your suggestions. Kind of ironic.

Vorlando: That site is good, if I could ever see it, all I get is HTML code when I try to view it.

Holy crap...there sure is a ton of bunk information on this thread.

I'll try to straighten it out some.

First off, your rear end. Almost any damn truck 9" will work. If you are not sure, pull an axle, count the spline, you want 31, and bearing diameter should be 3.150". You can go Explorer brakes, or build your own. I'd build my own. Use an 82 CJ rotor, and an 82 Eldorado caliper. This is the 'metric' caliper, so go onto www.aa-mfg.com, and get thier weld on caliper bracket for the small chevy caliper.

For the front, F-150 and F-250 from 68 untill 79 are high pinion. 68-71/72ish F-150 are kingpin, so avoid them, and 78-79 are thinner tubing, and cast c-bushing mounts, the only way to narrow such housing is to remove tubes from center, cut them down, and reinstall them $$$, so avoid them.

The cream of the crop is the F-250 D44. These units are leaf sprung, so you cut off leaf mounts, and you have a bare housing. They also have flat top knuckles, 8 lug, and 3/4 ton brakes!! But bend over when you find one at the junk yard!! I've found them for over $600.

A 77 F-150 is the best year to get because of disc brakes. The earlier years are all drum (some sources say 76 were disc too), which, you have to do a disc conversion on. The most popular swap includes using Chevy knuckles, spindles and brakes, 86 Bronco discs, and 79 Bronco bearings. If you break something, make sure you have a list of exactly what you need.

Or, what I have, which I have never heard anyone else using, is 83 Dodge 1/2 ton equipment from the knuckle outward. I have Dodge, knuckles, spindles, brakes, discs, seals, and bearings. No mixing and matching parts. The knuckles are flat top, and the bolt pattern is 5x5.5".

Yea, you see I come to POR for some expert advise and all I get is a bunch of misinformation. Thank you so much WillsXJ, that really does help a bunch.

Could I use the callipers from a F-250 since they are dual piston with the other stock F-150 brake parts?

Is it true that '77 and later front F-150 d44's have cast on bracketry?

Why are the Bronco discs and bearings so popular?

Alright updated front idea:
76-77 F-150 front HP d44 (this will have welded on radius arms, etc, and already set up for disc brakes)
- Use F-250 callipers
- Retain the rest of the brake parts
- The rest of the list is the same

Any more input is definitely appreciated

I picked up a HP44 from a 77 F150 a couple weeks ago and just sold it yesterday. I have heard that the cast/welded mounts switched mid 77, I know mine were welded on.

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

thanks Brett.

by the way shoot me an email if your serious about moving you MJ as my friend took a look at your pics and is seriously interested..by the way - teach your little bro more about jeeps..he just laughed at the technical jargon and accused me of "sounding like his older brother",.

kj

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
Could I use the callipers from a F-250 since they are dual piston with the other stock F-150 brake parts?

Is it true that '77 and later front F-150 d44's have cast on bracketry?

Why are the Bronco discs and bearings so popular?

Alright updated front idea:
76-77 F-150 front HP d44 (this will have welded on radius arms, etc, and already set up for disc brakes)
- Use F-250 callipers
- Retain the rest of the brake parts
- The rest of the list is the same

Any more input is definitely appreciated

Nope, you can not use F-250 calipers on an F-150 knuckle, from what I know. I may be mistaken here, but they I think the calipers mount to the knuckle differently. I do know that F-250 calipers are huge!

Yes, 78-79 have cast in 'c bushing mounts' as pictured earlier in this tread (that really rusty axle). I've never heard of them being cast in 77, but have heard of 78s haveing left over 77 equipment, and still having welded 'c bushing mounts'.

Bronco discs are used because they work. You have to remember, you would be entering the 'piece together' zone. They may be the only disc/hub assembly, that put the rotor where it needs to be in relationship to the caliper. The Chevy calipers slide, but only so much.

I say, if you find a disc brake F-150 HP D44, use it like it is. Don't worry about building custom brakes and such. Install your brackets and use it.

Your brake lines will not work. The Jeep lines use a 10mm(3/8") banjo fitting. The D44 brakes will use a larger banjo bolt. You can buy brake line adapters and fittings online. Longacre makes a brake line adapter that has a nice frame mount on it. What you will be looking for, is 3/8-24 IF to AN-3 male adapter. Find a length of AN-3 braided line that you want to use. Buy the correct AN-3 banjo for your aplication, and screw it all together. If you want longer lines, you just order longer lines at $12 each, and swap all of your fittings onto it. You can have custom front brake lines for under $40.

Willis

WillisXJ:

In case I don't find a 77 with disc brakes, I like your idea of all Dodge parts. How expensive was it to get all that together? Did you just get everything from like a NAPA? Did all of the brake components bolt on, or did you need to weld the bracket on?

Originally posted by WillisXJ
Holy crap...there sure is a ton of bunk information on this thread.

I'll try to straighten it out some. Ok, I wasn’t going to say anything, but have after a comment like that… You’re full of as much of it as the people you’re complaining about! :shaking:


Originally posted by WillisXJ
First off, your rear end. Almost any damn truck 9" will work. If you are not sure, pull an axle, count the spline, you want 31, and bearing diameter should be 3.150". You can go Explorer brakes, or build your own. I'd build my own. Use an 82 CJ rotor, and an 82 Eldorado caliper. This is the 'metric' caliper, so go onto www.aa-mfg.com, and get thier weld on caliper bracket for the small chevy caliper. Name me one year a 31 spline came with the large 9” bearings.


Originally posted by WillisXJ
For the front, F-150 and F-250 from 68 untill 79 are high pinion. 68-71/72ish F-150 are kingpin, so avoid them, and 78-79 are thinner tubing, and cast c-bushing mounts, the only way to narrow such housing is to remove tubes from center, cut them down, and reinstall them $$$, so avoid them.
F250’s only came with a reverse spiral (not high pinion) from 77.5 – 79. And it’s F100, not F150 for the early years, but you even got the starting year wrong. Don’t argue this, search first.

Originally posted by WillisXJ
The cream of the crop is the F-250 D44. These units are leaf sprung, so you cut off leaf mounts, and you have a bare housing. They also have flat top knuckles, 8 lug, and 3/4 ton brakes!! But bend over when you find one at the junk yard!! I've found them for over $600. But the F250 has 8 lugs, most people want the 5 on 5.5” or the easily switched to 6 on 5.5”. The 73-75 is a great option, even has the ½” tube.
Mikeyhaken I like your idea of going with Chevy flat tops, can run the better / cheaper chevy brakes.


Originally posted by WillisXJ
A 77 F-150 is the best year to get because of disc brakes. The earlier years are all drum (some sources say 76 were disc too), which, you have to do a disc conversion on. The most popular swap includes using Chevy knuckles, spindles and brakes, 86 Bronco discs, and 79 Bronco bearings. If you break something, make sure you have a list of exactly what you need. The year in dispute is 75, and late 75 at that. In 1976 all Ford 4x4’s got disks up front. Yes, I’ve seen a 76 with drums, but it was a 75 axle.


Originally posted by WillisXJ
Or, what I have, which I have never heard anyone else using, is 83 Dodge 1/2 ton equipment from the knuckle outward. I have Dodge, knuckles, spindles, brakes, discs, seals, and bearings. No mixing and matching parts. The knuckles are flat top, and the bolt pattern is 5x5.5".
What do you know about the Dodge flat tops, have years they came out?

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
OK so a little more searching and I've decided on this:

78-79 F-150 Rear 9"
- Disc Brake setup from a '78 Lincoln Mark
- Use CJ-7 rotors to retain 5x5.5 pattern

73-77 F-150 front HP d44
- Cross-over steering
- Flat Knuckles from 73-77 Chevy / GM 1/2 ton 4X4 (passenger side will need to be drilled and tapped)
- Steering Arms from Rockstomper made for chevy knuckles with tapered washers
- Tri-Country Gear For Mounting Hardware
- 85 Blazer TRE’s for Tie Rod and Drag Link
- Use DOM tubing to make tie rod and drag link
- Warn Hubs
- New Ball Joints, Spindle Seals, Wheel Bearings
- Somehow incorporate a Steering Stabilizer if I need one


I think I can use the stock callipers and rotors, it will be 5x5.5. What kind of problems will I have with brake lines (I have RE stainless steel ones)? I will get brackets welded on by Sunray. Any problems with this plan?

Just a side note, I like how many of you here were bitching at me for being a newbie, and then were wrong about your suggestions. Kind of ironic.
nice lists, looks Good. Don't forget Spicer Ball joints.

i like your side note. :D

Mr. N so '76-'77 F-150 front end. Thus I get discs, which will get switched to all chevy/gm brake parts (should bolt on correct?), welded on brackets for easy removal, and thus I am basically getting the best options from a JY axle.

Now as far as the rear goes, I thought too that the 31 spline 9" axles came with big bearings. So it basically becomes a trade off, either 31 spline, or big bearings? Would a '78-'79 F-150 or Bronco not have both these options?

The 73-75 is a great option, even has the ½” tube.

I assume you meant from the F-250.

My 1981 F-100 9" has 31 splines with the big bearings. It is the new style in the picture below
http://www.moserengineering.com/template_guide.gif

any more comments?

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
Mr. N so '76-'77 F-150 front end. Thus I get discs, which will get switched to all chevy/gm brake parts (should bolt on correct?), welded on brackets for easy removal, and thus I am basically getting the best options from a JY axle. If your running the chevy brakes you don't need and Ford disk stuff. Get teh chevy brakes when you get the Chevy knuckel, aslo grab the Calpier mounting plate (Didn;t know anyone made a weld on for the front)
Originally posted by mikeyhaken
I assume you meant from the F-250. Nope, the F250 was low pinion and closed knuckle for those years. Get a f100 or F150 axle, 73-75.

Originally posted by Mr.N
Name me one year a 31 spline came with the large 9” bearings.

As opposed to what? Big bearing and 28 spline? Or small bearing and 31 spline? Are you saying that combination never existed?


F250’s only came with a reverse spiral (not high pinion) from 77.5 – 79. And it’s F100, not F150 for the early years, but you even got the starting year wrong. Don’t argue this, search first.

Starting year is 67, I typed that one wrong. Search the Ford board, and you will find that I found a 67 HP D44. As for the high pinion goes, I'll have to check on that, I know where a couple are, and I swear they are high pinion. Yes, early 1/2 ton Fords are F-100s. I sould have said 1/2 tons, and not classified all of them as F-150. And, you stated earlier, that " The only Reverse Spiral Dana 44 that MAY have ever came with flat top knucles is the 77-79 suber cab with 5 on 5.5". So the F-250 axles with flat tops are not reverse spiral?


But the F250 has 8 lugs, most people want the 5 on 5.5” or the easily switched to 6 on 5.5”.

Maybe, but I personally, would rather have the 8 lug.


The year in dispute is 75, and late 75 at that. In 1976 all Ford 4x4’s got disks up front. Yes, I’ve seen a 76 with drums, but it was a 75 axle.

I have a 75 axle that is drum. I have also seen a 76 with drum. I have never ran the BOM on these, so who knows what Ford did. This made me believe that 76 was in dispute.


What do you know about the Dodge flat tops, have years they came out?

I do not have years. I don't even know for sure that mine are 83. I was just told the axle was an 83. But could not verify this. It's just a close estimation. I can take some pics of this if needed. The axle they came from is passenger drop D44 with a vacuum disconnect on the drivers side of the diff. The axle is gone, but I have the knuckles in the garage.

Now...are you done making me look like a fool?

And Mikeyhaken: The Dodge stuff came right off of a Dodge axle. You can order new discs, bearings, seals, and calipers for it if you want from NAPA, but the knuckle caliper bracket, spindle and hub will have to be used stuff. The Dodge knuckle uses a caliper bracket that bolts on to the knuckle. The Chevy caliper bracket is built into the backing plate, and gets sandwiched between the spindle and knuckle. If you go Chevy or Dodge discs, get everything from the knuckle outward. The only time you have to mix and match parts, is when you want to use your drum brake knuckle, and add disc brakes to it.


Willis

1979 F250 axle is reverse spiral and high pinion and does have flat top knuckles. It is 8 lug but easily converted. It also has thick tubes (right around 1/2") It is in my opinion the best 44 to work with if you are doing custom bracketry or if you want a bolt on SOA for a YJ. I'm finishing up mine right now.

Originally posted by WillisXJ

As opposed to what? Big bearing and 28 spline? Or small bearing and 31 spline? Are you saying that combination never existed? I was thinking 3rd member bearings.

Originally posted by WillisXJ
Starting year is 67, I typed that one wrong. Search the Ford board, and you will find that I found a 67 HP D44. As for the high pinion goes, I'll have to check on that, I know where a couple are, and I swear they are high pinion. Yes, early 1/2 ton Fords are F-100s. I sould have said 1/2 tons, and not classified all of them as F-150. And, you stated earlier, that " The only Reverse Spiral Dana 44 that MAY have ever came with flat top knucles is the 77-79 suber cab with 5 on 5.5". So the F-250 axles with flat tops are not reverse spiral? Starting year is still wrong ;). on my quote, notice I included the bolt pattern 5 on 5.5, a f-250 has 8 on 6.5.

Originally posted by WillisXJ
I have a 75 axle that is drum. I have also seen a 76 with drum. I have never ran the BOM on these, so who knows what Ford did. This made me believe that 76 was in dispute.
I've yet to see a 75 with disk, have seen a lot of 76's with them.


Originally posted by WillisXJ
I do not have years. I don't even know for sure that mine are 83. I was just told the axle was an 83. But could not verify this. It's just a close estimation. I can take some pics of this if needed. The axle they came from is passenger drop D44 with a vacuum disconnect on the drivers side of the diff. The axle is gone, but I have the knuckles in the garage. Grab the BOM and post it. I'd like pics of your flat tops, do they have the bosses in them?

Originally posted by WillisXJ
Now...are you done making me look like a fool?
Hey, the only reason I posted is because you were ripping other people, and had incorrect info your self 8)

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
any more comments?

I got one....

This thread is a great example of why "SEARCH" is a lame answer.

Paul

amen

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
Vorlando: That site is good, if I could ever see it, all I get is HTML code when I try to view it.
Mikeyhaken, try this url again:

Ford High Pinion D44 Swap:
http://www.bc4x4.com/pv/tj/fa/fa.cfm

Ford 9" Swap:
http://www.bc4x4.com/pv/tj/ra/ra.cfm

I just tried it and it works fine. I helped Jonathan edit the article so if you have any specific questions, just ask.

BTW, are you sticking with the 5-link suspension? The high steering draglink angle will be quite a bit different from the track bar angle. The end result will be more bumpsteer.

Good luck on your project!

...lars

I was going to stay 5 link, but will probably have the bracket placed on the axle in such a way that will perhaps help with some of the angle. I have also thought about putting a bracket on the frame end such as the RE extreme duty track bar uses.

Originally posted by mikeyhaken
I was going to stay 5 link, but will probably have the bracket placed on the axle in such a way that will perhaps help with some of the angle. I have also thought about putting a bracket on the frame end such as the RE extreme duty track bar uses.
Yeah, that would be a good idea. If you have room, weld a taller track bar bracket to the axle and a lower one to the frame. And use nice long gussets for max. strength.

...lars

Originally posted by Mr.N
If your running the chevy brakes you don't need and Ford disk stuff. Get teh chevy brakes when you get the Chevy knuckel, aslo grab the Calpier mounting plate .

you do need some of the ford disk stuff if you want to run 5 on 5.5...like the disk and hub assmbly.

If I am going to use warn hubs, do I need to pull anything else from the hub assembly?

I have a '78 F250 HP D44 for sale if anyone is interested. It is complete - hub - hub.

4.10 gears

Lancaster, PA

Here's a friend that dropped these very same axles into a mall cruiser:

http://www.nagca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4897

I did the same front axle swap, but, uhhhh, my front is highsteer and all crackalacka (surprise :rolleyes: ), with Chevy-esque steering and all sorts of hot hot hybrid action, so it's not really on topic...

Oh yeah, one thought: ditch the TJ steering. It Suh-uh-uh-uh-ucks. The only stock parts I used were the Pitman Tie Rod end, and the half of the draglink that threads into it (well, via that adj sleeve).

Celebrating Christmas with strong eggnog,
Bob

60s...60s...60s...
:flipoff2::flipoff2:newbie, be safe go::massey: