I was wondering what the best material is for axle shafts besides 300m and what heat treating would be needed after machine work is done.
Thanks ahead of time for what I'm sure will be the usual warm pirate welcome you guys give newbies:)
And yes I searched but I am computer illiterate
Thanks for your help

Pretty sure 4340 is the next best alloy. Warn uses it for their front shafts, and they're what places like Dutchman buy and cut to length for their custom front or double-splined shafts.

Dutchman told me that they don't to any heat treating on the 4340 shafts after cutting the splines. The material is already heat treated and stress relieved when it's bought as rod stock, and no post heat-treat is required.

Below 4340 is 1541, I think. This is what you get from Dutchman if you order a custom-length rear shaft, and possibly from Moser and others as well. I'm pretty sure 1541 is supposed to be heat treated after spline cutting.

I'm sure the others will step in and correct me if I'm wrong :D

Chris (:flipoff2: in advance)

Here is a rough list for you...

300M (Modified 4340)
4340 (WARN and Dutchman)
4140
1541 (Pretty much the standard for aftermarket axles)
8620 (Anyone use as an axle shaft??)


I would just go 4340. For the cost of 300M axles, you could do many other things to your rig!!

4340 is some good shit... annealed 4340 is damn strong in its untreated state... (68200 psi Yield strength, and about ~HRC 17) I did a hardness test on my stock spare axleshafts, and those biotches registered on the Rockwell B scale.... HRB 80... wayyy softer than annealed 4340. Right now I am machining 4340 for some of the shafts in our gearbox on our Baja car. As for 8620, thats mainly a gear steel.. Ive never heard of it in use as an axle shaft material.

Stock Dana axles are 1541M.

would the dana spindles be made of the same material (1541)?

i want hubs on my ram...

I doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

I dont know if the dana axle are made of 1541, sounds a little expensive for OEM stuff. Other axle shaft materials are Hy-Tuff, which would be just below 4340, and some people use maraging steels such as vascomax 300, which is in the 300M ballpark, but maraging steels dont like stress reversals, they are better suited for torsion bars, but some people make axles out of it.

huhuhuuhuhuhuhuhuh you said reversals :p

Thanks for the info guys.I was wondering if I use annealed 4340 will it need to be treated after the machine work or is the material strong enogh annealed?
Thanks

Your wasting your time if you don't heat treat it.

Your wasting your time if you don't heat treat it.

Then why is Dutchman telling me that they don't do any heat treating? They told me they buy the Warn 4340 blanks, cut the splines, and ship 'em out. Apparently the 4340 material is bought already heat-treated and stress-relieved.

A local machinist will be making some 4340 full-floater shafts for me soon, and he told me the same thing. I thought it sounded strange, until I called Dutchman and heard it from them...

Chris

Originally posted by cwate


Then why is Dutchman telling me that they don't do any heat treating? They told me they buy the Warn 4340 blanks, cut the splines, and ship 'em out. Apparently the 4340 material is bought already heat-treated and stress-relieved.

A local machinist will be making some 4340 full-floater shafts for me soon, and he told me the same thing. I thought it sounded strange, until I called Dutchman and heard it from them...

Chris

warn does the geat treating

If they are machiningg those axles post heat treat, then fuck that

i can guarantee those splines will be deeper than any heat treatment .I used to work at a major oil field manuifacturing plant as a heat treater, and i can tell you that you aint getting much depth on 4340 solid, way shallower than splines. as far as 300m is concerned , that stuff is heat treated at the foundry, and the standards for hardness vary a lot. we used to QC check all raw materials, and this stuff would vary by 10 HRB points, which is a shitload, and that was on the same stick!!

8620 sux!!

Originally posted by GOAT1
Your wasting your time if you don't heat treat it.

So many ppl dont really know what 4340 is . Anyone here ever machined 4340 ?

Yessir i have. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by liliysdad
If they are machiningg those axles post heat treat, then fuck that

i can guarantee those splines will be deeper than any heat treatment .I used to work at a major oil field manuifacturing plant as a heat treater, and i can tell you that you aint getting much depth on 4340 solid, way shallower than splines. as far as 300m is concerned , that stuff is heat treated at the foundry, and the standards for hardness vary a lot. we used to QC check all raw materials, and this stuff would vary by 10 HRB points, which is a shitload, and that was on the same stick!!

8620 sux!!

Since Warns axles are through hardened (which is necessary to ensure the yokes are hardened properly), I dont think you will have to worry about cutting deeper than the heat treat.

The only way those things are "through hardened" is if they have been induction hardened, in which case, it would probably be alright, but not many smaller manufacturers have that capability. and i would think that this would be mentioned, as it is much different than heat treatment.

Someone straiten me out here If I am wrong.. But I if I remember correctly 300m is the name of Hardening process. that is used to take material from its forged temp all the way down to -300 degrees F. and is the strongest hardening process know, so this material is through hardened not surface hardened.

I have machined it. We used it for jackshaft on our mini-baja car too last year and I wasn't all that impressed with it. Our shafts are shot after 6months of running them. We didn't heat treat them though. Might try that this year of a differnt alloy.

I would also agree that unless the shaft has been heatred all the way through you going to be cutting thorugh the heat treatment when you cut the splines.

Originally posted by Weasel
I have machined it. We used it for jackshaft on our mini-baja car too last year and I wasn't all that impressed with it. Our shafts are shot after 6months of running them. We didn't heat treat them though. Might try that this year of a differnt alloy.

I would also agree that unless the shaft has been heatred all the way through you going to be cutting thorugh the heat treatment when you cut the splines.

You are wasting your time making anything like that unless you heat treat it, the reason 4340 and 300M were developed is so you can through harden your part when done, you can more than double the strength of you part by heat treating.

Originally posted by liliysdad
The only way those things are "through hardened" is if they have been induction hardened, in which case, it would probably be alright, but not many smaller manufacturers have that capability. and i would think that this would be mentioned, as it is much different than heat treatment.

You have it all wrong dude, induction hardening does not through harden your part normally. Warn thru hardens their front shafts and induction hardens their rear floater shafts.

Originally posted by GOAT1


You are wasting your time making anything like that unless you heat treat it, the reason 4340 and 300M were developed is so you can through harden your part when done, you can more than double the strength of you part by heat treating.

Yep, but I'm not the genius senior engineer that said hardening it was a waste of time. What do underclassmen know? :rolleyes:

So it sounds like the rod stock (or whatever) the Warn buys is already through-hardened, so the shafts they (and Dutchman) make out of them don't need any hardening after they cut the splines.

Makes sense to me; just wanted to bounce it off you guys.

Chris

to someone who knows...not someone who thinks they know:

what material would you use to make spindles. i think i have figured out how to replace the hub-bearing on the front of my ram with a custom spindle that will let me run Ford hubs and rotors and a standard stub-shaft and lock-out. i have a friend that can machine them. i will have then heat treated if necessary.

any advice or recommendations would be appreciated!

matt

Originally posted by jeepnmatt
to someone who knows...not someone who thinks they know:

what material would you use to make spindles. i think i have figured out how to replace the hub-bearing on the front of my ram with a custom spindle that will let me run Ford hubs and rotors and a standard stub-shaft and lock-out. i have a friend that can machine them. i will have then heat treated if necessary.

any advice or recommendations would be appreciated!

matt

well lets see....................as you may know i co-drive in a class 8 desert truck and we have recently replaced the front and rear spindles on the truck. also if you have seen my recent build up on my rear camo 60 and my front camo 60 that run 1.75 40 spline shafts that i had to build one off spindles for. all 4 of these spindles were designed and helped built by somebody who has over 20 years of experiance building parts for some of the biggest names in off road racing. the prefered material for a spindle that is going to take an un godly abount of abuse
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300m..................duh :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Titanium


So many ppl dont really know what 4340 is . Anyone here ever machined 4340 ? the streeing arms on mossbergs front 70 are made from 4340

thanks camo, but my RAM is a street/tow vehicle with 265-75-16" BFG AT's.

any idea what Spicer uses. i'm thinking 4340...

Originally posted by cwate
So it sounds like the rod stock (or whatever) the Warn buys is already through-hardened, so the shafts they (and Dutchman) make out of them don't need any hardening after they cut the splines.

Makes sense to me; just wanted to bounce it off you guys.

Chris

Warn uses all raw stock for their shafts (the fronts are forgings), that are machined and then hardened. Dutchman buys hardened blanks from Warn and cuts them cold.