I have heard a little about the Vortec 4200 I-6 from a buddy of mine. Anyone thought of putting one in a wheeler? It seems like it could be a good motor, 270 hp @6000, 275 lb @3600, 24 valve, aluminum block and heads.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
got me thinking
anyone else got a plan for this?

I think that it would make a perfect off-road motor. Light and torquey. A post in the Toyota section (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61831&highlight=trailblazer) claimed that one of the front axleshafts or something goes right through the oil pan.

anyone know the weight and if it could use the old school bellhousing?

Originally posted by Dirty Harry
I think that it would make a perfect off-road motor. Light and torquey. A post in the Toyota section (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61831&highlight=trailblazer) claimed that one of the front axleshafts or something goes right through the oil pan.




It's not an axle shaft :D ..it's just a crossmember

Originally posted by fcfred
anyone know the weight and if it could use the old school bellhousing?



I was thinking of putting one in my cj5 and I was wondering the same thing:D ........Pull the old 74 258 and put in the vortec 258.......would be sweet if it bolted up to my t-18:eek: ........I would guess It would be lighter even with all the computer stuff and 3X the power:eek:

wel the trailblazer has been out for a while now and no aftermarket interest has been put forth.....soooo dont count on it guys!!

I would look at it like this was there any interest in puting rockwells in rock crawlers 5 years ago? No they were too big and heavy, and you had to build all of your parts, now there every where, and you can buy all of the parts. Until somebody does this conversion with good success it won't be looked at by the aftermarket so if you have to ability and the desire go for it! It is a neat expereince to do something that nobody had done, I was the first in my area to put rockwells in a rockcrawler and when I brought up the idea my buddies thought that I was crazy now there all doing it. Its neat to set a trend. I think that would make an awesome engine in a truck somebody just needs to do it!

Seems to me the most difficult part would be the computer, but that's no different than any other late-model swap. It does use standard full-size GM bellhousing (4L60E aka TH700 is the stock tranny). The oilpan from a 2wd rig would be needed. Only other thing that might be an issue is the length. I'm assuming you'd want this engine because it's light - all aluminum. Light, but long might not be ideal. BTW, GM is getting ready to release 4 & 5 cylinder engines on the same platform & retaining standard GM bellhousing. 3.5L DOHC, all-aluminum I5 making around 215HP and 2.8L DOHC, all-aluminum I4 making around 170HP.

TEX

personally, i would never swap in an inline.. too long and a waste of good space.. i also prefer simple workable stuff like one cam, no variable valve timing, and 2 valves per cylinder.. i want simplicity in my wheeler and inlines in my tractors.. :D

Great engine. My GF has one in her '02 Bravada. Goes like hell (for a 6) and gets good mileage. The oilpan IS connected to the IFS center section though...

Jake

And the axle shaft DOES go through the oil pan.

Originally posted by Black Dog
And the axle shaft DOES go through the oil pan.

YES.... Black Dog is correct. The front diff actually mounts to the side of the oil pan.

so
what about the 2 wheel drive oil pan mentioned above?
anyone know the bellhousing pattern?

Originally posted by fcfred
so
what about the 2 wheel drive oil pan mentioned above?
anyone know the bellhousing pattern?

Bellhousing pattern is the same as any other full-size Chevy engine (V6/V8/I6).

TEX

The wife has a Trailblazer with the Vortec I6...its got tons of power...I was really surprised when I drove it the first time. Tons of passing power and acceleration. Sounds like a good swap candidate.

Sorry, but this swap will not be that easy. For one the bellhousing is different from older Chevy's. Instead of the starter being on the pass. side at the bottom its on the drivers side near the top. Also the oil pan from a two wheel drive is still a front sump, and there's not another one that will work. Also the motor mounts are diff. from all other engines, not that big of deal BUT you will have to fab up some mounts. I am in the process of checking on an optional oil pan that might work with a solid front axle, but it will take some researching. As for the tranny, they come with a 4L60E so that is easily adapted to about any Tcase. The wiring harness will not be any different from any other custom harness but the computer will have to be reprogrammed to disable VATS, and we have not tried that yet. I do have them readily available with less than 10 miles on them so if you really wanted to do this swap I'd be happy to help in any way poss. Thanks Justin

www.jeepengineswaps.com

P.S. The site is just getting started so pardon the lack of info. Oh yeah the engine alone ways 435 lbs w/ starter, alt, AC, etc...

excellent info Justin!

kep us posted

Thanks, we are working on the oil pan problem right now. It seems this is also a popular swap into hot rods so we now have more than one reason to figure the pan out. So far our best idea is to cut apart a 4.2 oil pan and blend it together with a 4.0L Jeep oil pan. The length is just about right but I haven't had the time to actualy cut it apart and start welding a new one back together. Hopefully once the rush of fall events is over I'll have more time to get back in the shop. The guy that I do this with has been doing Hot Rod's for years now and I'm just getting started marketing it to wheelers. The hot rodder guys have been asking for this engine ever since it came out. By next spring we'll have a lot more going on, including this engine swap. I'll let you know as soon as we find something out. Thanks Justin

The oil pan is an aluminum die casting, so it's not gonna weld real well.

In my best Homer Simpson voice "Doh"
I really haven't given that much thought to it so far because no one has asked for one yet. Looks like back to the drawing board. Anyway I'll come up with something soon.

Originally posted by jeepguru7
Sorry, but this swap will not be that easy. For one the bellhousing is different from older Chevy's. Instead of the starter being on the pass. side at the bottom its on the drivers side near the top. Also the oil pan from a two wheel drive is still a front sump, and there's not another one that will work. Also the motor mounts are diff. from all other engines, not that big of deal BUT you will have to fab up some mounts. I am in the process of checking on an optional oil pan that might work with a solid front axle, but it will take some researching. As for the tranny, they come with a 4L60E so that is easily adapted to about any Tcase. The wiring harness will not be any different from any other custom harness but the computer will have to be reprogrammed to disable VATS, and we have not tried that yet. I do have them readily available with less than 10 miles on them so if you really wanted to do this swap I'd be happy to help in any way poss. Thanks Justin www.jeepengineswaps.comP.S. The site is just getting started so pardon the lack of info. Oh yeah the engine alone ways 435 lbs w/ starter, alt, AC, etc...
if i remember corectly , they are all drive by wire... ie: no throtle hook up. i belive that mark over at s&p is working on hacking the computer to alow a diferent throttle body, eliminate the vats, disable 2nd set of o2 , etc... the electronics looks to be the bigest hurdle for the swap.. casting a new pan etc will be easy, i belive mark is in the prototype stage as we speek.

Thanks for your info I'll give Mark a call.

This seems to have dropped dead for quite a while.

Has anybody tried this swap yet? Even with the hurdles, seems like it would be too cool of a swap not to do.

Originally posted by TEX

Bellhousing pattern is the same as any other full-size Chevy engine (V6/V8/I6).


I seriously doubt this... I was sizing one up for swappage a couple of months ago. I remember thinking I would be stuck with the stock trans because of the bellhousing pattern. I just can't picture the back of the block right now. I'll have some pics of one by the weekend :D

The axle DOES pass through the aluminum oil pan. The front axle is not integrated into the pan. The engine still holds oil with the shaft removed.

what advantages does this motor have over a standard v-8?

its longer, taller, more expensive, nothing is available for a swap, and the motor itself is not easy to come by.

would seem to me that the v6 or v8 swaps would be better suited to our sport.

Originally posted by ChrisPy
what advantages does this motor have over a standard v-8?

its longer, taller, more expensive, nothing is available for a swap, and the motor itself is not easy to come by.

would seem to me that the v6 or v8 swaps would be better suited to our sport.

Part of the appeal is running something different, but mostly I think that this would be a good 4x4 motor because it is LIGHT, makes as much power as most small blocks, and you don't have to change the 4.2L emblem on the side of your CJ. :p

Originally posted by ChrisPy
what advantages does this motor have over a standard v-8?

its longer, taller, more expensive, nothing is available for a swap, and the motor itself is not easy to come by.

would seem to me that the v6 or v8 swaps would be better suited to our sport.

It's narrower & lighter, both of which could be useful depending on the circumstance. And I think it'll be pretty easy to come by in the coming years. They sell about 1/4 a million of 'em a year. Certainly easier to come by than something like the ShortStar that seems to be "all the rage".


TEX

ok heres some info i know about the 4.2, it use's its own bellhousing pattern so yor stuck with the 4l60E tranny. it also used a flat surface on the oil pan so get a gasket and have some one with and CNC laser cutter cut you out a flange then build a sheet metal pan and a custom pick up for the pump. I also beleive you can unbolt the throttle body and install one from a vortec but im not 100%.

swap sounds real cool.. but Ill stick to my 4.0L good ol Rusty solid Cast Iron, take a beetin' and keep on tickin'. Try to do that with your aluminum block and heads with variably cylinoids timing .haha!:D

Originally posted by TR
I also beleive you can unbolt the throttle body and install one from a vortec but im not 100%.

from what i have been told the tb mounting pattern is the same as ls1, but you still have to modify the ecu to accept a non drive by wire setup.

i know about the 4.2, it use's its own bellhousing pattern so yor stuck with the 4l60E tranny

Yup. I verified this on Friday - forgot my camera though :(

There might be a 5-speed available soon, since the 5-banger version is coming - destined for the pickups.

Here's GM's page for the engine:
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/vortec/apps/vehicle/ll8.htm

...and a pic :D
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/vortec/apps/vehicle/images/ll8_large.jpg

bump
what ever happended with you guys working on this out of the hotrod shop???

I dug up a reference to the size of the 4200 engine:

The height of this block is 32.62", which will probably require some sort of custom hood.

Length is 32.86", making it roughly 3 inches longer than a V8. The 3 inches would probably not pose too big of a problem.


Found it on an F-body board
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?threadid=84423

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390637&highlight=bellhousing

Greg

has this issue died? i'd sure like to see a swap done. just the drop in weight alone would be amazing in my scout. probably get another 2" of lift out of the front springs! they're still selling tons of em too.

so what does this engine weigh? does anyone know for sure? sounds interesting. probably to long for my type of rigs though.

someone out there has to have done this 4.2 swap....anyone got n e pics?

The limiting factor is the oil pan. Since it used in only one platform your stock with a front sump pan unless you mod. the stock one your stuck with that pan.

any new news on these issues,
head bolts shearing just above the block,
sleves comming loose and hitting the head,
heard these issues were on the older engines what about the newer ones,
what about the manual transmission ??

im really lookin hard to use this engine for my swap

Wow, old thread.

When I worked at a gm dealer I replaced two engines for sleeve problems. Was the very early model years, like the first 3-6 months of production.

They are front sump, but If I remember right, the pans were symetrical, maybe only requiring turning the pan around and making a pick up. Maybe somebody with access to these engines can verify. Been a while since I had one out.

The ECU has the theft deterent stuff, drive by wire, and controls the starter in stock form. I talked to the guys at LS1 edit years ago, and the ECU's were different than the V6/V8 ones so they couldn't program them. They said that GM would switch the I6 to a V8 style ECU, which would mean you could elminate all of the unwanted stuff; this was like the 06 or 07 model year.

any new news on these issues,
head bolts shearing just above the block,
sleves comming loose and hitting the head,
heard these issues were on the older engines what about the newer ones,
what about the manual transmission ??

im really lookin hard to use this engine for my swapThey like to rev and have little lowend. At least the 4.2l has none.

It would most likely be easier and cheaper just to swap in a 4.8/5.3. You would have more power and MPG vs the 4.2L.

I agree with Bo185. The I6 is smooth and quiet, and even gets relatively decent mileage, but it isn't what I would think of as a truck engine. My wife has an 06 Trailblazer and that thing is always shifting up and down due to such a weak low-end. You've got to be around 5000 rpm and up to start to get moving. My DD is a 4.6 Crown Victoria which is similar weight (CV=4100/TB=4594) and less power on paper (CV=224/272 TB=291/277) but the CV will easily walk away from that Trailblazer every time in any situation and it won't even have to downshift to do it, even though the CV has 3 times as many miles and taller rear end gears. It is night and day difference. Now I love our Trailblazer, but there is a reason that engine didn't catch on in GM's and the 5.3/6.0 did.

ohh oh well looks like im gona join the folks that have swaped a V8 into a FZJ80

New reply to old topic.

There is a lot of growing support for this engine. The optimum years are 2006 and newer. I recently saw one in a 89 Toyota Supra and a 51 GMC. Both motors were turbo charged and mode 500+ hp.

Check out this thread on the subject.
http://www.jeepaholics.com/support/Topic595879.aspx

still stupid you just talked about high rpm high hp vehicles and no worry about front axle up travel.......... :shaking: i hope someone take the time to put it in a crawler and then figures out why eveyone said not to :shaking:

still stupid you just talked about high rpm high hp vehicles and no worry about front axle up travel.......... :shaking: i hope someone take the time to put it in a crawler and then figures out why eveyone said not to :shaking:

In 2004 GM bumped up the power output from 270 to 295 and the torque from 275 to 285.


Howerver, it reaches 250 Ft.-Lbs. at 1500 rpm and holds it until 5500 rpm. Peak is at 4600 rpm.

the motor makes tons of low end tq;)

Soooooooo you brought up a 9 year old thread for what reason? :laughing:

I was telling my dad he needs one of these instead of a 4.0L in his CJ. Gotta put chevy power in to make it reliable and powerful.

Soooooooo you brought up a 9 year old thread for what reason? :laughing:

I thought the same thing when I clicked and read how old it was.....but locally Sam @ Samco fab has one in his personal Desert truck.....Jims Performance did the harness and the tune for him.....keeping the DBW setup.

My .02 for anyone wondering about the hard part of this swap......:flipoff2:

In 2004 GM bumped up the power output from 270 to 295 and the torque from 275 to 285.


Howerver, it reaches 250 Ft.-Lbs. at 1500 rpm and holds it until 5500 rpm. Peak is at 4600 rpm.

the motor makes tons of low end tq;)




stock?????????????maybe at the crank and 90 ftlbs at wheel????????????????? if so i call BS maybe on some super tuned dyno but i can tell by my butometer there the worst low end inlne ever made work on them all the time not 8 ft behind me is one that needs a cam actuator and newer ones have valve seat problems

THEY HAVE NO LOW END stock :flipoff2::shaking:

THEY HAVE NO LOW END stock :flipoff2::shaking:

I just don't see how that is with a 4" stroke :confused:

edit: That's a longer stroke than even the Jeep 4.2L

Wow, old thread...

Couple issues... The main issue with the light low end, stock, is that the ECM sort of "averages" the throttle request, so it opens the throttle REALLY slowly... until you tune it and get rid of that... My wife has a 5.3L SWB TB, and it's a bit stronger in the low to midrange, and about the same or a little better on top...

YouTube - ‪Trailblazer LL8 4.2 liter electronic throttle demonstration‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLsY7dYjenY) (Maxed out tables is the first part of the video, and stock version starts at about the 1:00 mark)

There's a guy on Trailvoy that has one of these in an old car of some kind, and is getting cast aluminum rear sump oil pans made; though if you take the stock pan and cut of the sump, you can weld an aluminum sump wherever you want it...

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=77518&

The 5-speed from the Colorado/Canyon trucks works, as this guy figured out when he put a 5-speed 4.2L in his Supra:

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=51636&

The thing you run into is that the 4.2L, being DOHC and VVT and all that crap, isn't really all that much lighter than a current generation all aluminum small block... I found out during the figuring out what OEM springs we could use to offset bumper/winch/skid weight that I have the same springs as a lot of the similarly equipt I6 models.

The other thing you run into is that, yeah, you can turbo these, but cams are even still a custom-grind deal (and of course, there are 2 of them), and there aren't really many aftermarket hop-up parts for these engines...

Yeah, apparently, the valves aren't great, but these engines last up into the 200-300k mile mark without internal work, and of the ~50,000 registered members of Trailvoy, there have been like 20 people who have had valve guide/seat issues...


To me, the attractive thing about putting one of these in a buggy is that they're narrow at the top (about the same as a small block at the crank), and the exhaust comes out 1 side, so no crossover or Y-pipe... If your buggy is a manual transmission, they have a huge usable rev range so you don't have to shift as often, or at odd times...

Mike

I just don't see how that is with a 4" stroke :confused:

edit: That's a longer stroke than even the Jeep 4.2L

stroke is not all my friend have you ever drove one of these gutless piles of shit im tellin you no bottom under 4k is gay above that it still sits on a dick but does it quietly

I thought the same thing when I clicked and read how old it was.....but locally Sam @ Samco fab has one in his personal Desert truck.....Jims Performance did the harness and the tune for him.....keeping the DBW setup.

My .02 for anyone wondering about the hard part of this swap......:flipoff2:

Yea, I have a season and a half of desert racing on this 03 Atlas 4.2, it has won 3 out of 5 races, has a pair of second overalls and is bone stock except for a header.


I made an adaptor plate to a Turbo 400, you do have to notch the bellhousing for the starter.


I will get a 07 to 09 engine and put custom cams next, and spend some time tuning it.

With the header, it has a 4000 to 6000 rpm range. It screams. You can make 500 hp naturally asperated.