I posted this on FSJ but got 1 response so....I just purchased a 79 Cherokee with gm axles, Dana 44 front and Corporate 14 rear. I drove it home then started taking things apart...well to cut to the chase the front outer "C's" have been clocked and reads 10 degrees positive caster and the pinion angle is at 20 degrees. The front axle has huge shims, like half an inch for the pinion angle. I think the pinion angle is too high and when I take the (too big) shims out it is going to make the caster even more positive. The front axle internals are shot and am going to remove the axle and rebuild it so I want to see what I need to do now about the caster and pinion angle so I can cut and weld or whatever I need to do when I get the axle out.

Hope that made sense.
SOA, enough lift to clear 38.5" Boggers, Caster = 10* Pinion angle = 20*

what should I put my pinion and caster at?
Edit/Delete Message

Just set the castor where it needs to be, 5-7 degrees positive. Positive castor is: Pinion DOWN, moves the steering plane into positive (wheels pivoting even with the ground) + 5-7 degrees. Negative castor is when the steering plane is turning down into the ground (pinion UP), this isnt good. Dont get them mixed up, 7 degrees negative would suck.

The shims may be a cheap fix for somebody clocking the Cs too much. Is the pinion pointing straight up or something?? You sure you're not mixing up negative with positive???

Redoing the Cs isn't that huge of a deal, make sure the welder knows what's up if you go that route.

getting a new front axle was one of the options in my mind but how far do I need to kick the pinion up, don't wan't to starve the pinion bearing pointing it up too high or cause drive shaft problems not high enough.BTW T-18 and Dana 20.

getting a new front axle was one of the options in my mind but how far do I need to kick the pinion up, don't wan't to starve the pinion bearing pointing it up too high or cause drive shaft problems not high enough.BTW T-18 and Dana 20.

I know caster I am an ASE Master Tech with and L1. Not being snooty just don't want other reply's trying to explain this to me and get away from the point. I know the 10* I have is a little too much and when I take the shims out it will get even more positive which I don't want but will my pinion angle be okay that low with a stock set up or even a 6* shim keeping my caster in good shape at the same time. I guess my question should be what should my pinion angle be to keep my front U-joints alive.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index.html

With a double cardan my drive shaft will be pointed back up to around 20* because you want the pinion angle and drive shaft angle the same plus or minus a couple of degrees. So is that how I need to run it? Clock pinion up and clock caster correct? Or can I get by with my pinion down more than desired? Not seeing any definite answers here.

I know caster I am an ASE Master Tech with and L1. Not being snooty just don't want other reply's trying to explain this to me and get away from the point. I know the 10* I have is a little too much and when I take the shims out it will get even more positive which I don't want but will my pinion angle be okay that low with a stock set up or even a 6* shim keeping my caster in good shape at the same time. I guess my question should be what should my pinion angle be to keep my front U-joints alive.

With a double cardan my drive shaft will be pointed back up to around 20* because you want the pinion angle and drive shaft angle the same plus or minus a couple of degrees. So is that how I need to run it? Clock pinion up and clock caster correct? Or can I get by with my pinion down more than desired? Not seeing any definite answers here.

:homer::homer::homer::homer:

what's the double quote with no text?

what's the double quote with no text?

maybe it just me, but I'm having a hard time following your questions. If your shafts a double cardin and you have leaf springs. I would point the pinion a few degrees higher than the TC yoke

maybe it just me, but I'm having a hard time following your questions. If your shafts a double cardin and you have leaf springs. I would point the pinion a few degrees higher than the TC yoke

So if my transfer case front output is say 5* then set my pinion at 7*?

So if my transfer case front output is say 5* then set my pinion at 7*?
Set your pinion to point directly at the output plus a couple degrees. Unless you want to cut your c's again, pinion angle is more important than caster.

Set your pinion to point directly at the output plus a couple degrees. Unless you want to cut your c's again, pinion angle is more important than caster.

Okay gotcha. Just set it up like you are supposed to set it with a double cardan style joint.

Thanks for all the help guys.

If your front axle internals are shot, swap the axle. A GM Dana 60 front axle is a bolt in swap. Lines up on the springs and the brake lines should bolt right up. the GM axle is SOA from the factory. it's a really easy Saturday morning swap.

the T-case will have to change because the Chevy axles are a passenger drop.

check out my build thread for the details.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904527&highlight=fsj

If your front axle internals are shot, swap the axle. A GM Dana 60 front axle is a bolt in swap. Lines up on the springs and the brake lines should bolt right up. the GM axle is SOA from the factory. it's a really easy Saturday morning swap.

the T-case will have to change because the Chevy axles are a passenger drop.

check out my build thread for the details.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904527&highlight=fsj
My transfer case is a passenger drop dana 20 maybe yours was a quadratrac dunno but I have checked your build out quite a few times and it is sweet. Yeah the dana 44 front is out of a 3/4 ton chevy and already have the 14 in the rear but just picked me up a dana 60 front and 14 rear out of a CUCV truck with 4.56 and rear locker, I pulled the diff covers before I bought them with my Snappy cordless 3/8" impact since I didn't do it to the axles that are in the Jeep and the innerds look good. Another question-the 14 bolt rear spring pads are narrower than the jeep factory width, the 14 bolt in it now have been moved out to bolt up to the jeep leaves. Should I do that to my new axle, I will have disk brakes on it, or should I move the springs in instead of moving the pads out? Thanks.

My transfer case is a passenger drop dana 20 maybe yours was a quadratrac dunno but I have checked your build out quite a few times and it is sweet. Yeah the dana 44 front is out of a 3/4 ton chevy and already have the 14 in the rear but just picked me up a dana 60 front and 14 rear out of a CUCV truck with 4.56 and rear locker, I pulled the diff covers before I bought them with my Snappy cordless 3/8" impact since I didn't do it to the axles that are in the Jeep and the innerds look good. Another question-the 14 bolt rear spring pads are narrower than the jeep factory width, the 14 bolt in it now have been moved out to bolt up to the jeep leaves. Should I do that to my new axleyes, I will have disk brakes on it, or should I move the springs in instead of moving the pads out? NoThanks.

.

Thanks!

jesus fuck.. why hasn't this thread been deleted yet?

jesus fuck.. why hasn't this thread been deleted yet?

We have been waiting for a cock sucker like you to reply. Duh!!!

i want my click back..

it sure is fucking Tuesday isn't it...




way to keep the tradition going

what's wrong with Tiger?

jesus fuck.. why hasn't this thread been deleted yet?
Because the influx of dumbass noobs and their stupid questions is over loading the mods...

what's wrong with Tiger?

He belongs in non-hardcore with your dumb ass.

Because the influx of dumbass noobs and their stupid questions is over loading the mods...



He belongs in non-hardcore with your dumb ass.
Overloading the mods? I have been reading the same shit for a month and there's nothing wrong with Tiger.

die in a fire

Gargle my sack

die in a fire

Hey, I looked through your build. What degree did you set you caster to? Single or double cardin shaft?

:shaking::shaking::shaking:

Hey, I looked through your build. What degree did you set you caster to? Single or double cardin shaft?


i really couldn't tell ya.. i just put a jack stand under the pinion where it pointed at the transfer case output..

i'll get a degree for ya when i get home in like 3 weeks

.

You think I give a fuck about your opinion? and yes over loading the moderators, cleaning up threads that don't belong.

+ pissing me off.. lol

now delete this thread

hey you ass.... put that back..

You think I give a fuck about your opinion? and yes over loading the moderators, cleaning up threads that don't belong.
Then why did you answer my post let alone read it peach picking boy and what the fuck is the moderator for I have to give them some work to do or they wouldn't be needed dumb ass

hey you ass.... put that back..

:laughing: You caught it quick enough... I don't have the energy to argue with the dumbfawk op, I'm trying to get my blood pressure down on my Thanksgiving break.:flipoff2:

i really couldn't tell ya.. i just put a jack stand under the pinion where it pointed at the transfer case output..

i'll get a degree for ya when i get home in like 3 weeks

Hey, Thanks man. And this is for 247pia

youins is doin it wrong

Then why did you answer my post let alone read it peach picking boy and what the fuck is the moderator for I have to give them some work to do or they wouldn't be needed dumb ass

Meh fuck it...

Peach picking boy... That's a new one, I kinda like it.:laughing:

So you like to make volunteers work harder? Way to go, I bet you're that asshole that throws change on the ground in front of the salvation army bell ringers too...:shaking:

Meh fuck it...

Peach picking boy... That's a new one, I kinda like it.:laughing:

So you like to make volunteers work harder? Way to go, I bet you're that asshole that throws change on the ground in front of the salvation army bell ringers too...:shaking:
No but I do throw my beer cans at the dumpster divers in the alleys

No but I do throw my beer cans at the dumpster divers in the alleys

uhhhh.... good one..

delete this thread already

I am going to bed. Thanks for the fun guys!

No but I do throw my beer cans at the dumpster divers in the alleys

And the point?
I am going to bed. Thanks for the fun guys!

Awesome! Mommy must be calling you to bed... Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we've found a middle school troll.

Do you pick peaches for a living or do you just like those fuzzy round things in your palm?

Do you pick peaches for a living or do you just like those fuzzy round things in your palm?

Nah man, I pleasure your mom and girlfriend for a living. You know that southern drawl makes panties drop.:smokin:

But since your insults don't make sense and you're obsessed with the peach thing, I offer:

YouTube - The Presidents Of The United States Of America - Peaches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cs8G_mY8jE)



Ashman, is this far enough off topic for you to delete the thread?

I am glad my mom and girlfriend are getting some I haven't been able to provide because my wife has been off work and she has been keeping me at home. I appreciate it.

Dont delete yet....This is quite entertaining!
Hadn't heard "peaches" in along time!

I didn't get any good info anyway
"point the pinion at the transfer" I was looking for someone with experience that would let me know if I could get away with less angle.

And mounting the rear axle-move the pads or the spring to frame mounts. Didn't get any response on disk brake interference or pro's and con's of either set up.

All I got was some young punk kid whining about me being on here because I am a newb and since we are speaking of boy georgia where are you? did you go out and get some dic last night? Calling me a dumbass? I would bet I have forgotten more then you know, I have been a mechanic since you were two years old. LOL

I didn't get any good info anyway
"point the pinion at the transfer" I was looking for someone with experience that would let me know if I could get away with less angle.

And mounting the rear axle-move the pads or the spring to frame mounts. Didn't get any response on disk brake interference or pro's and con's of either set up.

All I got was some young punk kid whining about me being on here because I am a newb and since we are speaking of boy georgia where are you? did you go out and get some dic last night? Calling me a dumbass? I would bet I have forgotten more then you know, I have been a mechanic since you were two years old. LOL
Well I'm glad you've been a mechanic for that fucking long and not only never learned any principles of physics or geometry, but also never learned how to pull your head out of your ass and search.

The reason to move the spring perches out is leverage... Ooops here comes those pesky terms, physics and geometry.In terms a fucking idiot like you can understand, the farther apart your springs are, the more stable your rig will be. Also if you leave the springpads in the stock location and it is more narrow than the spring hangers, it will put the springs in a bind.

For the pinion angle you were answered by people with knowledge on the subject and chose to not listen, but come back with "I'm ASE certified and all that bullshit." I'll be honest I've met quite a few ASE certified mechanics that I won't let near my vehicles with a wrench, and it sounds like you may be one of them.

The fucking funny part of all of this is, you could have used the search button and answered all of your questions, but instead you thought you were special enough that your problem was unique. So now anytime a good newbie searches he's going to find this worthless fucking thread.:homer:

i remember my first beer..

Well I'm glad you've been a mechanic for that fucking long and not only never learned any principles of physics or geometry, but also never learned how to pull your head out of your ass and search.

The reason to move the spring perches out is leverage... Ooops here comes those pesky terms, physics and geometry.In terms a fucking idiot like you can understand, the farther apart your springs are, the more stable your rig will be. Also if you leave the springpads in the stock location and it is more narrow than the spring hangers, it will put the springs in a bind.

For the pinion angle you were answered by people with knowledge on the subject and chose to not listen, but come back with "I'm ASE certified and all that bullshit." I'll be honest I've met quite a few ASE certified mechanics that I won't let near my vehicles with a wrench, and it sounds like you may be one of them.

The fucking funny part of all of this is, you could have used the search button and answered all of your questions, but instead you thought you were special enough that your problem was unique. So now anytime a good newbie searches he's going to find this worthless fucking thread.:homer:

Nicely put. Well I did do a lot of searching and found a lot of info and some of it was contradictory to the other or maybe I am just too stupid to understand. I wanted some input on my particular jeep because I had a Chevy that I had to take the double cardan out of the front and put in a regular drive shaft, had a Ramcharger that starved the pinion bearing with it pointing at the transfer case so I angled it down and didn't have a problem, though the Chevy did with it down. So I thought I might hear keep it down and you may only have vibrations at highway speeds, or it will tear up you joints you have to keep it up etc. etc.

I agree I know quite a few ASE tech's that I wouldn't let change my lawnmower oil, but I would hope that they would at least know the basics of caster and camber and toe and that's why I stated that, I even said not to be snooty.

Also my mom said next time you come over if you could unhook the garden hose she would appreciate it because it's going to freeze tonight.

And this thread isn't worthless, I think it's the funniest shit I have read on here.

Okay I did the math and my 44 set up is okay at 20* pinion angle and 10* caster. I got stock ride height numbers, factory tire size subtracted from my Boggers which actually measure 37" and subtracted current ride height and came up with 10" of lift, sure doesn't look like other trucks with that much lift but with some research I am convinced it is. So did some measuring on the Dana 60 and I need 20* degree on pinion angle still and will set caster at 7*.

maybe it just me, but I'm having a hard time following your questions. If your shafts a double cardin and you have leaf springs. I would point the pinion a few degrees higher than the TC yoke

actually it should be 2* lower than the tc yoke

actually it should be 2* lower than the tc yoke

Talk about digging up the past.

I am running a double cardan and ended up 3* lower than the torque converter yoke. I cut and turned the knuckles, pinion is at 20* caster is at 7*. I had to french in the rear of the springs and drop the front to get this right but now I don't like the spring angle.

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/rhary/pinionangle002.jpg

On a front diff, with leaf springs, the pinion should be ~1.5* ABOVE the front drive shaft angle (Double cardan-shaft ). The pinion wants to rotate downward--opposite of what the rear diff pinion does.

On a front diff, with leaf springs, the pinion should be ~1.5* ABOVE the front drive shaft angle (Double cardan-shaft ). The pinion wants to rotate downward--opposite of what the rear diff pinion does.

Mine is actually 3* below the drive shaft angle not the transfer case angle as stated earlier. With the short front drive shaft distance and a transfer case that sits high up in the frame it really is hard to get a good angle and I didn't want to rotate the pinion higher than 20*.