Ok looking for options. My Griffin radiator is a couple months out of warranty and they want $150 to fix, plus the $75 round trip shipping.
that 7/8 the way to a new radiator. $269 for a new one

I pulled the radiator last night and it has a hair line crack in the epoxy at the edge of the top tube. Anybody have any luck getting the old epoxy off and welding the loose connection?

Option 2, clean real well and thin out some JB weld with denatured alcohol and pour it on top of the crack and hope for the best.

Here's a vid of me lookng for the leak with a UV light, but since it was bubbling, it was very not hard to find

YouTube - Griffin leaking radiator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_uI5Om-Xys)

I had a knick in one of my tubes on an alum rad on my car, was about 1/2 inch long. pinched the hole down a little and got some of the JB waterweld. it is a clay tube thing that you mash up and apply. stopped the leak and stayed on there.

You could try that or the better option would be brazing it. I did that to my current rad when my flex fan exploded. tons of holes and gouges in it and it is still holding great

Having once owned a radiator shop, guess I'm an expert:smokin: here's the deal. The aluminum radiators that use epoxy to seal up the seams are JUNK. If you run hot the epoxy breaks down and they start leaking. I just replace them at the first sign of trouble on the airport ground equipment. Still the best option is the good old copper radiator. Aluminum has gained favor because of 1. the cost of copper 2. the high performance crowd has been able to use them in race applications 3. with the advance of tig welding techniques the radiators are more adaptable.

Now to speak to your situation, I have tried on several occasions to clean the epoxy and do a tig repair, very seldom have we had luck with a repair. In the shop situation we never do an epoxy repair. And if you use a stop leak product it has a terrible effect on your heater core. Lastly the poor quality Chinese radiators use a stamped aluminum tanks that are very thin and difficult to weld. I use Northern Radiator Supply, they are the wholesaler for the radiator shops, if you can get an in with a shop you can get one for about half price.

I know none of this sounds good but it is real radiator tech:flipoff2:


Edit: here's a link http://www.northernfactory.com/

Epoxy never flexes or expands and contracts like the base metal. I've patched a few things with it. I like to cut up a nice bed sheet or dress shirt that has a real tight weave and inbed that in the epoxy. I rub the epoxy into the fabric and it makes a tough patch. Don't think it will work very well in this case. Griffin says they furnace braze there rads and adds epoxy to make it even stronger. Wich means you can't fix a leak


I can TIG weld, guess I better practice up on the some pop cans. I have some Alumiweld (http://www.alumiweld.com/)that you can solder the aluminum with a propane torch. But would try it with oxy/acetylene first. I can try that on some scrap thin material too.

Good tech. Just curious how you have it mounted and if you know why it failed?

I second the Waterweld suggestion. I have used it a few times on radiators and it worked Every time. I carry a tube of it in the Scuggy because I know it works.

Take it to local radiator shop and have them clean it, fix it and pressure test it. I fix aluminum radiators all the time for my race car and they usually don't charge more then $25 if all they have to do is seal a hole.

I thought things were more costly in California, here in Billings when I owned Xpert Radiator Repair. It cost $75 just to clean and leak check the radiator, then repairs where on top of that. I just can't see how a shop could see any profit, when you have an employ spend at least an hour cleaning and pressure checking the rad. Then the time to do the repair, and recheck it. You have at least an hour and a half to do a repair that may or may not hold until the system comes up to temp for $25. :eek: One of the issues is the system cycles hot and cold hundreds of times and the epoxy repairs get brittle. Another factor is the different expansion rate of the two different materials ie. aluminum vs epoxy. And I don't want to come across as a greedy SOB on shop rates, facts are salaries, insurances, shop cost, utilities, and the materials used in the repair all add up to the point that people don't understand. I always helped out everyone I could but in the end I sold the shop because almost everyone wanted the service for free, and could not understand why I would not give them my service. And also with the internet every third world country wants to sell junk products at a cost of half my cost.

As mentioned before be very careful of your mounting method, on Scouts the core supports tend to flex and pull the side tanks on the radiator. At a minimum I use rubber isolators so that there is more room for flex....Robert

I thought things were more costly in California, here in Billings when I owned Xpert Radiator Repair. It cost $75 just to clean and leak check the radiator, then repairs where on top of that. I just can't see how a shop could see any profit, when you have an employ spend at least an hour cleaning and pressure checking the rad. Then the time to do the repair, and recheck it. You have at least an hour and a half to do a repair that may or may not hold until the system comes up to temp for $25. :eek: One of the issues is the system cycles hot and cold hundreds of times and the epoxy repairs get brittle. Another factor is the different expansion rate of the two different materials ie. aluminum vs epoxy. And I don't want to come across as a greedy SOB on shop rates, facts are salaries, insurances, shop cost, utilities, and the materials used in the repair all add up to the point that people don't understand. I always helped out everyone I could but in the end I sold the shop because almost everyone wanted the service for free, and could not understand why I would not give them my service. And also with the internet every third world country wants to sell junk products at a cost of half my cost.


Cali = Mexican labor! :laughing:

Good tech. Just curious how you have it mounted and if you know why it failed?

The rad has been great it solved my cooling needs and not one lick of trouble until about 2 months ago, saw some coolant, but just a couple drops. I figure it leaked out of the overflow reservoir. But after going to the International Harvester Fall Rally back in Oct. I noticed the over flow tank was empty. Added coolant and been looking for the leak. Found it.

The rad is setup to float and not tied into the body. I used Stock Ford radiator mounting pads, on the bottom. They are very pliable. I also held it in place with some tabs and some self stick rubber pads from MC Master with a light durometer i.e soft. There is about a 1/2" gap around the tanks on the side.


Ya I know pic's tell a 1,000 words. couple pic from when I installed it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=513640&stc=1&d=1270569222

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=513641&stc=1&d=1270569222

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=513642&stc=1&d=1270569222

On a side note Griffin contacted me late Friday, hopefully I won't have to go down the self repair route:smokin:

I thought things were more costly in California, here in Billings when I owned Xpert Radiator Repair. It cost $75 just to clean and leak check the radiator, then repairs where on top of that. I just can't see how a shop could see any profit, when you have an employ spend at least an hour cleaning and pressure checking the rad. Then the time to do the repair, and recheck it. You have at least an hour and a half to do a repair that may or may not hold until the system comes up to temp for $25. :eek: One of the issues is the system cycles hot and cold hundreds of times and the epoxy repairs get brittle. Another factor is the different expansion rate of the two different materials ie. aluminum vs epoxy. And I don't want to come across as a greedy SOB on shop rates, facts are salaries, insurances, shop cost, utilities, and the materials used in the repair all add up to the point that people don't understand. I always helped out everyone I could but in the end I sold the shop because almost everyone wanted the service for free, and could not understand why I would not give them my service. And also with the internet every third world country wants to sell junk products at a cost of half my cost.

As mentioned before be very careful of your mounting method, on Scouts the core supports tend to flex and pull the side tanks on the radiator. At a minimum I use rubber isolators so that there is more room for flex....Robert

He does work based off of volume and the guys working for him are only making $12-15 an hour, as for taking an hour to clean and test a radiator, all they do is put it in a machine for 45 minutes to clean everything and spend 15 minutes pressure testing it. You have to know that I live in a desert as well and cooling system repair is always in high demand year round around here.

Steve Beebe at Griffin wanted to see the radiator. So it's in Fedex hands.

That's awesome that Griffin is stepping up, it will be interesting what they say/do.

That's awesome that Griffin is stepping up, it will be interesting what they say/do.

x2 :)

well just for the hell of it I welded a couple coke cans together tonight

x2 :)

well just for the hell of it I welded a couple coke cans together tonight

with wha?? can you pull them apart so that they dont break the weld? curious :smokin:

with wha?? can you pull them apart so that they dont break the weld? curious :smokin:

I used some 1/16 aluminum filler rod 4043, 1/16 Tungsten at 30 amps. They are fully welded. It smoked like a mofo on the first tac, but once that cleared it was fine. I have an extra helmet an thought about setting up the video camera behind it. The camera would need to be close so you can see the weld puddle. Since I can't go play in the snow with the Scout, maybe after cleaning up the shop this weekend I'll give it a try.

The rad has been great it solved my cooling needs and not one lick of trouble until about 2 months ago, saw some coolant, but just a couple drops. I figure it leaked out of the overflow reservoir. But after going to the International Harvester Fall Rally back in Oct. I noticed the over flow tank was empty. Added coolant and been looking for the leak. Found it.

The rad is setup to float and not tied into the body. I used Stock Ford radiator mounting pads, on the bottom. They are very pliable. I also held it in place with some tabs and some self stick rubber pads from MC Master with a light durometer i.e soft. There is about a 1/2" gap around the tanks on the side.


Ya I know pic's tell a 1,000 words. couple pic from when I installed it.

[http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=513641&stc=1&d=1270569222

On a side note Griffin contacted me late Friday, hopefully I won't have to go down the self repair route:smokin:

I have Griffin in my Scout, bit my lower mount supports the full width of the core from side to side. I wonder if the tank only mounts are putting stress on the tank to core joints?

had the same problem with my griffin cracking at the welds on the tanks,plus i have fiberglass inners and outters,so the flex was worse.we pulled it and welded some 3/8 aluminum blocks over the areas to beef them up.then i made up spring loaded mounting bolts and havn't had a problem in 5 years.i did have a leak on the front from a cooler rubbing,cleaned up the area and coated it with some JB and it's been fine ever since.
my cracks were in weldable areas tho,not in the epoxy.just a thought you might want to consider after the repair.or,if griffin sends you a new one,i would do the beefing up part before it even goes in.

had the same problem with my griffin cracking at the welds on the tanks,plus i have fiberglass inners and outters,so the flex was worse.we pulled it and welded some 3/8 aluminum blocks over the areas to beef them up.then i made up spring loaded mounting bolts and havn't had a problem in 5 years.i did have a leak on the front from a cooler rubbing,cleaned up the area and coated it with some JB and it's been fine ever since.
my cracks were in weldable areas tho,not in the epoxy.just a thought you might want to consider after the repair.or,if griffin sends you a new one,i would do the beefing up part before it even goes in.

Five years on jack stands:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:

Though you dropped off the face of the earth, where ya been and hows the project going. Did you ever get the Scout done for the neighbor kid.

Sorry for the Hijack. R290

Thats exactly what I was thinking, $15-$20 in aluminum and it would be way better. Looking at Ron Davis and a few others I notice they all have some aluminum in the corners where you could easily attach a fan. But the side benefit is a stronger radiator. Griffin is supporting KOH this year and marketed a set of coolers at SEMA. But was told they are the same as what I had.

I would think the manufactures would see the market for a rad with some structure to it, so you could easly hang a fan on it. Even when it comes to mounting it. Most aftermarket co's out there offer up some cheap o mounts.
Like these.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/500/555/555-52075.gif

I like the look of this Universal Combo CU-56272-01

http://www.griffinrad.com/images/Universal%20Combo's/CU-56272-01_small.jpg


Sorry thats the biggest pic I could find.

Flex-a-lite has some universal radiators with extruded T-slots built into the side tanks for additional mounting options and additional heat dissipation.

But... they cost a bit more than the Griffin Universal fit radiators.

I have a Griffin Universal 2 core with the thicker 1.25" tubes, it is supported all the way around with c-channel and foam tape. I'll be curious how it turns out for ya.

I have Griffin in my Scout, bit my lower mount supports the full width of the core from side to side. I wonder if the tank only mounts are putting stress on the tank to core joints?

Flex-a-lite has some universal radiators with extruded T-slots built into the side tanks for additional mounting options and additional heat dissipation.

But... they cost a bit more than the Griffin Universal fit radiators.

I have a Griffin Universal 2 core with the thicker 1.25" tubes, it is supported all the way around with c-channel and foam tape. I'll be curious how it turns out for ya.

I sent Steve Beebe a couple pic of my install. Have not heard back on problem with the install. The Rad is built so that only the tanks can be supported. If you support the center section all the pressure is on the bottom tube or top tube. I looked on there web site and can't find any install info. It used to be easy to find?

I had one rubber pad on each side and are they are soft, but not foam soft. I think I will try just foam tape on the sides.

I still think Chris has the right idea in adding some structure to the radiator.
I'll calling them in the morning since they have the radiator in hand.
Doubt they have had time to check it out yet just yet.


The flex-a-lite has the top and bottom welded to the sides.
http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/35045460+w750+st0/131_1101_02_o+131_1101_keeping_it_cool+flex_a_lite _radiator_front.jpg


Griffin does not attach the bottom or top to the tank.

Hard to see in the pic
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs315.ash2/59523_808109245655_22400449_45485000_5675530_n.jpg

I think ScoutIITD might be onto the cause, from the pics you posted, your rad was supported at each corner so any frame flex would twist the entire radiator. The repeated twisting/torsion motion eventually cracked the core from the tank...

Maybe? I dunno...

I'm not sure my mounting is the right way to do it either...but the radiator mount is part of the front crossmember. With C-channel along the bottom, sides and top (I recycled part of the radiator mounts from the F250 that I parted out). The foam tape I used is closed cell foam weather stripping made for campertops ~1/8" thick.
*added another pic:
564744

564266

Thanks for posting the pic's of your setup.

I think what cause the issue was body flex vs frame flex. Being so close to the front cross member and that its plated in 3/16 steel to boot it can only move a fraction at best. If you look at the pics I had some Chevy rubber pads on the sides to fill in the 1/2" gap. So when the body would push that was transfered to the radiator. They are real soft, and not even solid. My best guess anyway. So they won't be going back in.

I called Griffin and Tom Beebe (VP) took my call. He walked down to the cage and personally look at my rad. I told him what I had planned with the JB weld. He said it would work for a while, kind of like cutting your finger off and putting a bandaid on it, eventually the blood will come through. He said the reason they added the epoxy was to help a radiator stay together after taking a hit when racing. He has seen them 3-4" out of sq and still holding.
He said the shop guys had left for the day and would have it tested in the morning. Today they called me back said the best option was to replace the radiator. I thought the rad came with a 2 yr warranty, but their race rads only have a 30 day warranty. ( I mis read the summit racing site) So they offered to sell me a blem rad at a huge discount. So its on its way.

I was real impressed with each person I talked with at Griffin, they all took the time to answer my questions and work with me on this issue.

I will be making a couple changes with the new install. Pic's to follow once it arrives

Sucks about the warranty, but at least you don't have to pony up for a full price replacement.

Sucks about the warranty, but at least you don't have to pony up for a full price replacement.

Good thing too, since its Christmas and play money it tight.

I will continue to use the stock Ford rubber pads as they are thick and soft and do a great job of holding the rad in place. The blue crap is RTV I used as a filler to get a better fit between the rad and the pads..

I need to redesign the rest of the mounting system and/or put a big X in front of the radiator. Tying the two body panels together. Since I have body bushings the body is free to move about on the frame. Here's a more current pic of whats behind the grill.
I need to design something like Guido posted, that holds the rad in place and is not bolted to the body. Maybe add some tabs on the body that keep it from falling forward or back, but allow the body to move side to side.

Maybe move your top clamps away from the radiator tanks towards the center of the radiator., so the flexing doesn't cause the clamp to hit the tank.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=513642&stc=1&d=1270569222

Here are some pics of my floating setup.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d628b3127ccec7870dfb748c00000040O08AaOW7Rozbtg e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc27b3127ccec61835e2f09500000040O08AaOW7Rozbtg e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc27b3127ccec619a93ed04b00000040O08AaOW7Rozbtg e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc27b3127ccec6184af3b02300000040O08AaOW7Rozbtg e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc27b3127ccec6190305d02500000040O08AaOW7Rozbtg e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I've been thinking about this.
I've had a $200 2 row (either Be Cool or Tru Cool) for 4-5 years now.
It's got some dents, & I've beat the crap out of my rig.
It's attached to the body on top (vs the frame), and I was thinking recently that that isn't such a great idea.
I was going to re-work it this winter with a new, HD mount into the frame.
But now I'm thinking that isn't such a great idea.
I think because the radiator sits far from the body (ie long mounts), that it may have helped to keep the radiator from being torn to pieces...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/DCP_2823.jpg

Sure flexing is bad, but couldn't it also help to offset the inertia? (kinda the difference between hard mount vs bushings with motor mounts).

Yes those top clamps do touch the rad tank and have 1/4 thick rubber on them.
That was my first thought too, move them in and mount them off the upper cross member. But then I realized its still anchoring the rad to the body.

Found this on another thread. This would keep the mount off the body panels and parts.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=399461&stc=1&d=1225210098

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=399462&stc=1&d=1225210098

Looking a bit more, I realized the Scout front clip is different then most OEM applications.

http://www.thecarpartsnetwork.com/online_website/BIG%20PIC/03980-7.jpg

Maybe thats what I need to do is tie the bottom body parts together, making the structure rigid.

http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/data/503/aluminum_radiator_web.JPG

http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/data/503/aluminum_radiator_2_web.JPG

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34096&d=1219022704

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34097&d=1219022704

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78313&highlight=radiator+mount

Five years on jack stands:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:

Though you dropped off the face of the earth, where ya been and hows the project going. Did you ever get the Scout done for the neighbor kid.

Sorry for the Hijack. R290

haha, i havn't been on the board in a while,black 78 is about 80% done,just need to put the dash back in,line the whole thing and some misc plumbing.and i have to find a set of headers for the 327

800 has been on hold for a while because of work,my house,and other misc projects.

and my neighbors son has gotten some things done, i gave him my griffin for his truck so it was drivable and now he's driving it to school.were going to trade out soon,he's going to split about 8 truck loads of fire wood for me,and i'm going to do new rear floors for him.

thanks again on the front clip,it really helped out with getting it done and kept him motivated.trucks coming along,i'll try and get a few pics up soon

sorry if this is goofy in reality, but I was thinking just build a frame for the rad and hang it like the way exhaust hanger are done with the stems thru a flexible grommet all the way around on all 4 corners.

Replacement rad is due in on Tue's

So tonight I pulled the winch, front grill and coolers. I remove the 2" body lift and replaced it with some 1x3 tubing. This will keep the radiator at the same height as it was. So the plan is to build a radiator core support that won't bend, and mount the rad inside.

Edit: Like everything lately, nothing goes smoothly. Took a lot longer to get it together. Once I got a jack to hold the body up, that made it eaiser to fit the bar in there.
Welded some nuts inside the tube too.

Edit: 2 here it is all painted and installed, still need to mount the P.S cooler and the rad should be here soon.

Radiator arrived :smokin: Looks good too.

Dropped it in place and welded the bottom mounts in place.
Need to work on the PS mount, but did not feel like digging around for some steel. Went in side and watch the movie SALT. :p

Edit: All installed. bottom pic is before PS cooler was mounted

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=567155&stc=1&d=1293490510