My brother got me interested in these Sami's while i was up in Seattle. Now I am working on a trade for a CJ 7 frame, and a tub, for a sami with a bad motor.

I was thinking about swapping in my CJ drivetrain, it is all beefed up, and I have a 1 ton drive train already for it, and using my Rancho 2.5" lift with a spring over, or stretch the frame and use some rear waggy springs. They are really long.

My big question is, what would be a good motor swap. I was thinking 4.3L Vortec, I am about to do that with an SM420 in my CJ, I also have a second SM420 already that I could put in the Sami. I have also heard about putting a Jeep 4cyl, or a Toy 22re. Out where I wheel, you really need fuel injection, so I would like to go with some kind of fuel injected motor.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Have been looking at ya'lls posts for a couple of months now, and am really trying to work this deal out. Then I will finish my CJ and start on this sami for a second rig, or just a play toy.

Thanks again,
Mark

Unles mud racing is your thing, you will likely be very happy with the 1.6 16V FI motor from a Tracker or Sidekick. It makes about 60% more power than the 1.3l stock Sammi engine, close to 100HP.

Remember a stock Sammi only weighs 2000lbs. If you want to keep the advatages of light weight, Dont pork it out with 60's and 500lb engines. Light weight, it's a Sammi thing. :D

You want fuel injected and light weight, try a Volvo B23 lots of aftemarket parts and plenty on tech support




Seriously, the only limitations with samurai's is your imagnation and skill. Like Shrock said, Sidekick and Tracker engines are popular and relatively easy, so are turbo diesel engine's from volkswagens.

Small block Fords are light.. especially with aluminum heads :)

http://www.abusivemotorsports.com/tech/102502/pics/10250219.jpg

You want fuel injected and light weight, try a Volvo B23 lots of aftemarket parts and plenty on tech support

Hi DMC,

Whos suzuki is that w/ Volvo B23? I'm planning to do similar swap in winter. Motor will be B23E injected, 146hp from factory.
Tranny, t-case and axles comes from Volvo Valp "small Laplander".

Is there more pics or e-mail address for owner/fabricator?

Thanxs!

Originally posted by TessaL


Whos suzuki is that w/ Volvo B23? Is there more pics or e-mail address for owner/fabricator?



I dont relly know who's rig that is, all the information i can find seems to be in either in Norwegian or Sweedish

http://www.engbergracing.com

toy 22re's aren't the most powerful ever, but last forever if you take care of them

With a 1 ton drivetrain I'd go 4.3. KISS principle dictates a TBI setup.

r@m

What do you all think about going with a rotary set up? I have an old mazda engine out of a sandrail that is very light and pushes well over 200 hp.

Originally posted by TXtac


My big question is, what would be a good motor swap. I was thinking 4.3L Vortec, I am about to do that with an SM420 in my CJ, I also have a second SM420 already that I could put in the Sami. I have also heard about putting a Jeep 4cyl, or a Toy 22re. Out where I wheel, you really need fuel injection, so I would like to go with some kind of fuel injected motor.


Sure bigger engine, D60's, SM420, pack it full, go big block. Why would anyone want a 2000 pound truck anyways, 4000 is more like it ! Swappin out the 1.3 because why ? :eek:

Originally posted by LJwanted
What do you all think about going with a rotary set up? I have an old mazda engine out of a sandrail that is very light and pushes well over 200 hp.

That sounds almost impossable, plus thats just too much hp for a zuke to have, probably laws against it or something...


Oh ya Welcome Newbie !!! Gram says hi!

Originally posted by TXtac
My brother got me interested in these Sami's while i was up in Seattle. Now I am working on a trade for a CJ 7 frame, and a tub, for a sami with a bad motor.

I was thinking about swapping in my CJ drivetrain, it is all beefed up, and I have a 1 ton drive train already for it, and using my Rancho 2.5" lift with a spring over, or stretch the frame and use some rear waggy springs. They are really long.

My big question is, what would be a good motor swap. I was thinking 4.3L Vortec, I am about to do that with an SM420 in my CJ, I also have a second SM420 already that I could put in the Sami. I have also heard about putting a Jeep 4cyl, or a Toy 22re. Out where I wheel, you really need fuel injection, so I would like to go with some kind of fuel injected motor.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Have been looking at ya'lls posts for a couple of months now, and am really trying to work this deal out. Then I will finish my CJ and start on this sami for a second rig, or just a play toy.

Thanks again,
Mark

If it's going to be a toy, stick with the light engines. I have seen it time and time again where people shove a big block into some rig (willy's, cruiser, zuk) and it's one problem after another (overheating, aftermarket fuel injection, etc, etc). Meanwhile my little 1.3 is purring like a good sewing machine and ready to hit the rocks instead of being parked beside the trail with the hood up. You should find someone in your area with a geared down Zuk who can show you what lightweight and low geared is all about.

Chris covered it ,light is right.........................:D

I swapped in a 16v and I love it...plenty of power and still light. My rig runs @ 180 degrees no matter what the weather and I can wheel all weekend on less than 10 gallons of gas. Dependable OEM efi etc.

If your worried about your heavy foot, I recently got frustrated and stupid on a waterfall I couldnt get and literally smoked all four 35s on the rocks long enough to leave 4 piles of rubber dust! Then I moved over six inches and walked right up...doh!

TXtac, Listen to Chris. Had my 1.3 for 7 years run 33s and yota axles. Got the gears to move it. Only have had to replace the fuel pump nothing else. Starts up ever time I ask it to. Reliability is were its at.
If you want to see a geared Samurai e-mail me I live in your backyard or at least work in your backyard(EDS)

Why would the rotary engine swap be "almost impossible"? Its small enough and parts are readily available. Im serious about the swap but as I am a newbie to this board I am also new to engine swaps. I would likely have to use my mazda tranny but linking it to the transfer case shouldn't be to hard, should it? Am I missing something?

this is what I think about the 1.6 16v

that ones a joke this one is with 35x15.50x15 tsl sx'x and yes its doing the same thing baking the tires off :flipoff2:

Originally posted by moto261
that ones a joke this one is with 35x15.50x15 tsl sx'x and yes its doing the same thing baking the tires off :flipoff2:

ya sure thats not exhaust :confused:

A Zuk lighting up the rear tires does not impress me as a sign of power. I used to smoke them all the time with my old 1300.. Its called low range with the brakes on. (As a clue, it is more fun in the sand.. :flipoff2: )

The rotary is a good option. Take a look at my website for some info on what I was installing. (Hit the WWW button below.) Izook has a pretty good write up to give you an idea of what is envolved with the basic Samurai swap.

But I think I've found a more entertaining swap. :D Big horsepower without the weight. (also see my web site.. even though it is not current right now.) to sum it up, Mitsubishi 4G63 (2.0 turbo/intercooled) to Toyota W56 5 speed, twin t-cases and Toy axles. Should be fun. :rasta:

-Wayne

anyone know anything about the b23 volvo swap? thought is still in the back of my mind to build up my volvo into a 4x4(dumb and different), and still dont know a way to adapt a transfer case. any clue?

Rotozuk why the change of heart in regards to the engine? And do you still have it? Your engine may be a better fit than the 12a I have. Nice write up by the way.

Originally posted by LJwanted
Why would the rotary engine swap be "almost impossible"? Its small enough and parts are readily available. Im serious about the swap but as I am a newbie to this board I am also new to engine swaps. I would likely have to use my mazda tranny but linking it to the transfer case shouldn't be to hard, should it? Am I missing something?

Their yanking your chain. It's been done lots of times. There used to be a number of web sites with info, maybe search a little harder...

They don't seem to be that popular any more, dunno why. There were some really successful swaps. My big thing is the length of the tranny and the unknown of hydrolocking a rotary.

Swapping in a Suzuki engine is just easier and gets you about the same power levels without "weirdness". (Caveat: in a trail engine - none of that foo-foo racing stuff applies)

r@m

In sandrails they ofter use VW bus trannys' as I remember it they are very small. Could a rotary engine be used with a VW tranny in the ZUK? I'll do a search for more info but since I already have the 12b engine in my garage I would like to find a way to make it work.

I dont mind chopping everything up to see if I can make it fit but I dont want to find out it wont work after I have already invested weeks of labor.

Never Mind Rotozuk I read deeper into your site and got the answer I was looking for. Before you changed your mind on engines did you consider using a different tranny? As I mentioned before the VW tranny is often used with Rotary engines.

Originally posted by LJwanted
Never Mind Rotozuk I read deeper into your site and got the answer I was looking for. Before you changed your mind on engines did you consider using a different tranny? As I mentioned before the VW tranny is often used with Rotary engines.

Problem with the VW trans is that the outputs are on the side of the transaxle.

You might have better luck adapting an AWD Subaru transaxle, similar except there is a yoke at the end of the tranaxle for driving a prop shaft. You;d have to weld up the transaxle front<->rear diff to get power out the back though. Kennedy makes an adapter for rotary to Sube I think...$$$

Is the Mazda tranny not a WC T-5? If that is the case you might be able to do some mixing and matching with Ford and Nissan versions to get a shorter tranny. I don't know anything about that though.

r@m

Originally posted by LJwanted
Never Mind Rotozuk I read deeper into your site and got the answer I was looking for. Before you changed your mind on engines did you consider using a different tranny? As I mentioned before the VW tranny is often used with Rotary engines.

Yes, I do still have the engine.. $675 if anyone is interested.. 165 hp in stock trim, and great torque despite what many people think. More torque than any Suzuki engine can produce, and that torque is a very flat curve, so most is available right away.

Yes, there are a few transmission options.. Basically anything mazda mated up to a rotary (4 & 4 Speeds plus a few automatics) the Ford version of the T5 (Mustang 5.0, using an adapter from Kenedy Eng.), and that is it, as far as I know. Rumor has it that there is a short 4 speed manual Mazda made for the pickups sometime ago.

No VW transmissions are an option other then transaxles from air cooled vehicles, and they are a different beast then the water cooled vehicles. VW really likes transaxles...

The swap can be done with a stock Suzuki t-case. Going beyond that, and you have some issues with driveline length.

-Wayne

p.s. I think there is some hope to using a Mazda transmission with a Mazda pickup truck 4x4 tail housing. That would save a good 6 inches or so. Mazda used the same transmissions on most of their rear wheel drive vehicles.

Welp, one of my favorite places to camp is up in the Cinders north of Flagstaff, AZ. That place is miles and miles of volcanic cinder.. hills.. mountains.. bowls.. it's a great place to have fun. If any of ya'll want to bring your Zuk on up with your low gears and follow me up some hills in my little Suzi (yeah, the one with the aluminum headed, nitrous guzzling small block Ford) I'll be more than happy to watch.

I 100% agree that light weight and gearing will get you JUST about anywhere you want to go.. but this is just one of the places it wont. Period.

I was absolutely content with my Samurai (locked front and rear, 4:1's, 32's, sprung over with rears all around, chopped fenders, roll-cage) until going to the Cinders. It ran the dunes like you wouldnt believe.. rockcrawled exceptionaly.. and sure, I understand one vehicle can't do everything.. or can it...

Hate to burst bubbles, but the running bet on my Samurai right now on how much it will weigh goes something like this... low end - 2800, high end -3200. Even if Bill wins.. I don't think 3200# is all too much considering the drivetrain will be bulletproof in that little vehicle.

60HP just sucks.

Originally posted by rotozuk
A Zuk lighting up the rear tires does not impress me as a sign of power. I used to smoke them all the time with my old 1300.. Its called low range with the brakes on. (As a clue, it is more fun in the sand.. :flipoff2: )





before you bashing the 1.6 16v that bern out was with a 1.6 16v 4.16 t-caseIN HIGH RANGE 5.38 R/P 35x15.50x 15 2 lbs of air in the tires dry pavement :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: so dont go bashing on it it is the best bang for the buck besides you will stay zuk that give you cool points :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


:massey:

Originally posted by Chief yelling alot


ya sure thats not exhaust :confused:



no thatz not axhaust (unlike yours) the motor had 47,000 miles on it when i put it in like a year ago and there is like only been 15 trips on it sence and no street driving :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


:massey:

Originally posted by moto261

before you bashing the 1.6 16v that bern out was with a 1.6 16v 4.16 t-caseIN HIGH RANGE 5.38 R/P 35x15.50x 15 2 lbs of air in the tires dry pavement :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: so dont go bashing on it it is the best bang for the buck besides you will stay zuk that give you cool points :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

:massey:

Moto261,

I'll call you on this one. We have a 16-valve with a 3 link, 33 MTR's, 4.89, and 4.62 r&p, Pw clutch and it will not smoke the tires even with 28 psi in the ARB'd rear while in high range. Perhaps the next time I'm up your way, you can show me in person. And if you pull it off, you can :flipoff2: me off if you like, but if you don't you owe me a :beer: .

-Wayne

its true :flipoff2: :flipoff2: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70000 :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


:massey:

Originally posted by moto261
its true :flipoff2: :flipoff2: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70000 :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


:massey:



it is true i'm the one who took teh pics... Crash, toyman, and a few others from the board all witnessed it, so if you'd like to call BS, go ahead and give them a PM 1st gear, hi range, 5.38's D44's (major cool points) and about 2-3psi in the 35x15's

and here i'll even give you the :flipoff2:

Thanks dave :flipoff2: :flipoff2:



:massey:

Originally posted by Vermin
Welp, one of my favorite places to camp is up in the Cinders north of Flagstaff, AZ. That place is miles and miles of volcanic cinder.. hills.. mountains.. bowls.. it's a great place to have fun. If any of ya'll want to bring your Zuk on up with your low gears and follow me up some hills in my little Suzi (yeah, the one with the aluminum headed, nitrous guzzling small block Ford) I'll be more than happy to watch.

I 100% agree that light weight and gearing will get you JUST about anywhere you want to go.. but this is just one of the places it wont. Period.

I was absolutely content with my Samurai (locked front and rear, 4:1's, 32's, sprung over with rears all around, chopped fenders, roll-cage) until going to the Cinders. It ran the dunes like you wouldnt believe.. rockcrawled exceptionaly.. and sure, I understand one vehicle can't do everything.. or can it...

Hate to burst bubbles, but the running bet on my Samurai right now on how much it will weigh goes something like this... low end - 2800, high end -3200. Even if Bill wins.. I don't think 3200# is all too much considering the drivetrain will be bulletproof in that little vehicle.

60HP just sucks.

I went to the Cinders once. Drive fast in a straight line up a hill, repeat until complete and utter boredom sets in :zzz: What drivetrain are you going to be running? 60's won't be bulletproof under that motor.....

Maybe you should go up there with me sometime, Chris :) Camping up there is great.. weather is soo nice.. I'll show you the fun hills that you can't make it up.

Drivetrain behind the 302 is a fairly built C4. It's running a manual valve body, hardened input shaft, kevlar bands, kayline (spelling?) steels, Ford 'R' servo, and Advanced Adapter output shaft (was a car tranny). Early Bronco Dana20 transfer case. Dana 44 front (dead stock for now.. worried about making it move before I worry about breaking it). Ford 9" rear that will have a spool and 40 spline (yeah, 40) Moser shafts.

I think if I break anything it will be front shafts and u-joints.. or the Dana20 output shaft. But those are both remedied with aftermarket love...

Originally posted by Vermin
Maybe you should go up there with me sometime, Chris :) Camping up there is great.. weather is soo nice.. I'll show you the fun hills that you can't make it up.

Drivetrain behind the 302 is a fairly built C4. It's running a manual valve body, hardened input shaft, kevlar bands, kayline (spelling?) steels, Ford 'R' servo, and Advanced Adapter output shaft (was a car tranny). Early Bronco Dana20 transfer case. Dana 44 front (dead stock for now.. worried about making it move before I worry about breaking it). Ford 9" rear that will have a spool and 40 spline (yeah, 40) Moser shafts.

I think if I break anything it will be front shafts and u-joints.. or the Dana20 output shaft. But those are both remedied with aftermarket love...

I can show you hills I can't make it up :rolleyes:, but then I built a rockcrawler, kinda why I hang around here. If I wanted a hillclimber I'd slap a rotary w/ turbo on a rail, cheap, low cg and it'll go up nearly anything. I'd still like to see your beast in action on some real rocks. Our new trail will before the end of the year, it'll be a good testing ground.

Yeah, I'd love to see my junk move under it's own power too.. had originally planned on making it 'go' for late July.. and it keeps getting pushed back. And since I am now in the 'unemployed' crowd.. it may be a bit longer. Still have more than a few parts to buy :(

Absolute 100% MUST be running by Moab next year :)

Well, looks like the Zuk is gone now.

I am probably going to stick with light weight Jeeps for now. Try to run across a Zuk when one pops along. I have enough parts to build two jeeps. My brother said that he was probably going to have his Sami done up there in the Seattle area anyway. He just ordered a new lockrite. I was just going to swap out the motor on this one, since the motor was already out.

I did get to use both of my brothers Sami's when I was up there in Seattle this past year. It was the first time I have driven one, and I was impressed. Especially with the one that had the RockLobster. That is a sweet set-up. And no need to swap axle gears.

You Seattle area guys look our for a T-Man up there. He hunts and fishes up by his cabin in HoodSport, and has his business out of Renton. One of his friends has a shop somewhere around Renton as well, and builds Sami's and Wheels somewhere up that way. One year, I will bring my CJ up, and go wheelin' with the Sami's. Not many of them in the club I am in. Just thought it would be a cool little project.

Thanks for the info, and I think if I go to do a motor in a Sami, I will stick with the 1.3 or go to the 1.6L

T-MAn