Not to get into to much detail but how important is it to have the lower links hit the tube at centerline. The way I see it the further off they are the more load the upper takes once you load the front against a rock.

thanks

Dean

Good question, I have no Idea. The coil spring-shock-link brackets I bought from balistic have the link mount just a cunthair under the axle center line.

Not to get into to much detail but how important is it to have the lower links hit the tube at centerline. The way I see it the further off they are the more load the upper takes once you load the front against a rock.

thanks

Dean

The higher up on the axle either one is the higher the load. If you use the 4link calc you can see this in the materials tab. However you must also calc to see if the amount of force being applied is detrimental to the materials used. Just because one design has a higher load doesn't mean you should count the design as worthless. The loads on my links are far greater now than previous designs.
With that said, when the lower links are below center line the force is reduced.

Not to get into to much detail but how important is it to have the lower links hit the tube at centerline. The way I see it the further off they are the more load the upper takes once you load the front against a rock.

thanks

Dean

You're an idiot. :flipoff2:

You're an idiot. :flipoff2:

well you're a cock sucker........ :flipoff2:

well you're a cock sucker........ :flipoff2:

You must be new here. :laughing:

But he is right though Jes. Since your on here give some points about yours front as I know it works.

You must be new here. :laughing:

ummmm....... no....

Theoretically, with the lowers on the centerline, they will take all of the front to back force caused by offroading, and the upper only keeps the axle from rotating. That is how I have mine set up. With them below, the three links all take front to back force, and they all keep it from rotating about the centerline. With them all above, the force in all three links is greater, and is not a good idea unless you are using strong materials.

That's the way I picture it. I expect that the loweres will b just below centerline but close to it.

But he is right though Jes. Since your on here give some points about yours front as I know it works.

Working on SeanP's POS?
My lowers are inline with the axle tube. What else do you need to know?

I'm working on my own POS. 8" TJ coils on my CJ looking :beer: hauling ride. I took a 60 rear axle and blew the tubes out so I could retube it to make it a driverside front 60.

Nice.
Once I find a front D60 I'll probably have you do another shave/shaft/cryo job for me. :smokin:

Theoretically, with the lowers on the centerline, they will take all of the front to back force caused by offroading, and the upper only keeps the axle from rotating. That is how I have mine set up. With them below, the three links all take front to back force, and they all keep it from rotating about the centerline. With them all above, the force in all three links is greater, and is not a good idea unless you are using strong materials.

No! you are wrong even theoretically.

How. If the lowers are perfectly inline with the centerline of the axle, and you push, from the front, on the axle tubes, which is were the tires are supported from, how is the upper link going to be taking any force? Theoretically, when everything is perfectly in line. It has to be direct frontal force though. Now, in the real world, when the axle is articulating and hitting rocks at odd angles, or course the upper will take some of the force, but not near as much as the lowers.

Of course there has to be no torque on the axle at all for this to work.

Prove it to me, I am willing to learn.

Edit* assuming perfectly flat links. I drew two free body diagrams. One with the lower inline with the tube, and the upper 10 inches above the centerline. The other with the lower 5 inches below the centerline, and the upper in the same spot. I then applied a force, 1000lb, acting at a 45degree angle, aimed at the centerline of the axle, placed at the bottom front of the front tire. I then took a moment about the centerline of the axle. With the lower on the centerline, zero force in the upper, 342 lbs of force in the lower, which is the sin(45) of 1000 lbs. The cos(45) * 1000 goes to raising the jeep. The one with the lower below, 228 lbs in the lower, 114 lbs in the upper. This is in a perfect world, perfectly flat links, with no torques being put into the axle by the driveshaft. The same applies to a force that is at a 60 degree angle. This is all assuming that the force from obstacles are pointed at the centerline of the axle, which it would be, more or less, when driving at a constant speed. Again, no torque from the driveshaft. I'll show you math if you dont believe me.

One other question. Is handling effected if the third link is on the left and the panhard mount is on the right or does the third link need to be on the panhard side to work best?

Doesn't matter. I have had my panhard mount on both sides of the rame. Currently it is on the passanger side.

One other question. Is handling effected if the third link is on the left and the panhard mount is on the right or does the third link need to be on the panhard side to work best?

Wont matter

Edit* assuming perfectly flat links. I drew two free body diagrams. One with the lower inline with the tube, and the upper 10 inches above the centerline. The other with the lower 5 inches below the centerline, and the upper in the same spot. I then applied a force, 1000lb, acting at a 45degree angle, aimed at the centerline of the axle, placed at the bottom front of the front tire. I then took a moment about the centerline of the axle. With the lower on the centerline, zero force in the upper, 342 lbs of force in the lower, which is the sin(45) of 1000 lbs. The cos(45) * 1000 goes to raising the jeep. The one with the lower below, 228 lbs in the lower, 114 lbs in the upper. This is in a perfect world, perfectly flat links, with no torques being put into the axle by the driveshaft. The same applies to a force that is at a 60 degree angle. This is all assuming that the force from obstacles are pointed at the centerline of the axle, which it would be, more or less, when driving at a constant speed. Again, no torque from the driveshaft. I'll show you math if you dont believe me.



You are making this to complicated. When the tires move the lowers compress and uppers pull. Assuming you are going forward. No dig against you, you sould like a smart guy, but dont get stuck on the math part of this. You cant take the rotation out of any of this and if thats all we are discussing then we are chasing our tails. If what you're trying to say is if we pushed the vehicle by hand through a tail, where would the force be applied? Since thats not possible its pointless to discuss.

Theoretically, with the lowers on the centerline, they will take all of the front to back force caused by offroading

In real life get some... The scariest obstacle for your front links to survive will be to nose down a steep water fall, on the throttle and slightly turned. Gravety pushing on uppers and lowers, torque from motor stress on the links, torque on the axle houseing from turned knuckles.

I think that is a worst case, The three torque forces would push the pinion away from your chassis towards the ground.

Having the lowers above center line in this position would push the pinion into your chassis, it may actually help fight the other forces.

With enough separation and strong materials it is a good design and better ground clearance.

Yes, that is basically all I was saying, but really, it does have some merit in the real world. You only have one upper link, it can only take half of the force of the double lowers. This just proves that in non-hardcore situations, the lowers are taking the brute of the force when you are driving along, in 2wd. Then when you apply torque, it is taken out mostly on the upper link. But yes, facing down a waterfall at steep angles, thats a whole different ball game, but the lowers will still be taking more force than the upper.

How i built my 3-link is, just put it where it fits. Which turned out to be on top of the pumpkin. So its on the opposite side of the panhard mount. It brakes nice and straight, so I don't think it matters.
Now if you have soft bushings in your arms, i think it would do some funky stuff. But we're in hardcore cherokee, no one uses bushings :p

Now back to lurking, just spilling my non real world related thoughts on the board.

For the question came up in my own head as to what is best because I drive with the ARB off most of the time so when you load that tire against the rock you are just pushing it since it isn't driving or at least we assume the other tire will be.
Good deal onthe other question as it will be easier to put the upper link on the driverside punkin. Not sure what kind of seperation I'll be getting but I'll do what I can pretty much like we all do. I'm running an Re style joint on the lowers and some heims on the upper. The lowers are 2.250" 7075 links and the upper is 1.75 or 2" we will just have to see how much room I have. I need to upload some photos to photobucket so I can post them up.

Having the lowers above center line in this position would push the pinion into your chassis, it may actually help fight the other forces.

With enough separation and strong materials it is a good design and better ground clearance.

Thats how all my kits are designed. front and rear.

Thats how all my kits are designed. front and rear.

what the fook would you know...you act like you wrote a magazine article on link systems or something:flipoff2::laughing::flipoff2:

what the fook would you know...you act like you wrote a magazine article on link systems or something:flipoff2::laughing::flipoff2:

How dare I. :flipoff2: