I have a bit of a conundrum that I would like some input on. I am going be building an "expedition" style rig over the next 6 months, and am trying to figure out what to start with. What the rig will be for is long range exploring/camping. I am going to have some free time in my life over the next year, and I want to use that time to get to those places that I have not had a chance to get to (alaska, baja, boundary waters, NE canada...wherever my wheels decide to take me). I will be travelling alone (just one vehicle) for a good portion of the time, equiped with plenty of tools and spares. I would like to run 31 or 33/10.50s with a selectable rear locker and a winch for light wheeling. Therefore, highway comfort, reliability, campability, and the ability to carry my raft (deflated on a roof rack), canoe, or kayaks.

Here are the options I am looking at at this point: I have a 1st generation dodge diesel regular cab w/ 4" lift and 35s and auto tranny. It would need some work to be ready for such a trip, all of which is doable. However, this truck is a beast, I feel like something more compact, with better road manners, and more interior space would be better suited to my plans.

I also have a 91 Mitsubishi Montero, v6, 5speed. This is a great vehicle, although a little underpowered. It has a lot of miles, giving me some reliability concerns. I feel like an engine rebuild would be wise before setting out on this trup (but that is something I would be willing to do if I decide to use this one). It has the 33s, and is very capable off road. But, I am not sure I could fit gear, cooler, plus a boat on top without being stuffed to the gills, requiring me to reorganise everything to camp. I would build a sleeping platform with room under it, and add a rack.

I have access to an extended cab 1998 ranger 4L, 5speed, for pretty cheap. It has 120k miles and is in good shape. I could add a camper shell, a sleeping platform. I would probably just do a mild leveling kit and run 31s. For some reason I am not a huge fan of these ranger though, for some reason they just feel "tinney".

Final choice (which was my original idea before I took inventory of my other options) is to buy a 2000ish tacoma, and set it up basically the same as the ranger above. This is the most expensive option, but also likely to be the one that provides the best reliability (I think).

I would really appreciate thoughts, experiences, and comments on the suitability of these various vehicles for a long trip to see more of this great continent that I live on! Each one has its pluses and minuses, but never having done an adventure like this, I am struggling with evaluating the importance of each pro and con. If you have one of these set up for this, pictures would be great.

i think that vans make awesome expedition vehicles but i guess the main thing is how much comfort do you want/need? i like the idea of using the pickup. just put a camper on it and spend a little money on the steering system. you may need to beef up the camper to support a roof rack also. as far as size normally your not doing really technical wheeling when your by yourself a long way away from help

If it were me I'd try to find a '01-'03 extended cab TRD with the 3.4L, 5spd. First I'd make sure all the maintainance is up to date, then I'd install an OME lift and some 265x75/16 mud terrain tires and add a winch/bumper. Then I'd enjoy the journey!

Another vote for a taco. The rear selectable locker that you want is a factory option, and 31's fit stock, and 33's fit with no more than a add a leaf, and spacer.

I think all of them have Pro's and Cons. I like the idea of a pickup. The Ram reg cab probably has as much "interior" room as the small 1/4 ton pickups do. The Ram can also carry more then the small pickups. Next I would look at MPG loaded and then the distance you can travel without filling up. my buddy has a little v6 ranger on 32's and a mild lift. He gets about 14mpg unloaded. Loaded you can forget any kind of real long distance travel without being too far away from a gas pump. This being said, I like the idea of the Cummins. allthough it is an early cummins, you can get pretty good mileage out of them. and loaded and unloaded mileage really wont change too much. Then it would come down to this for me. If you went with the smaller trucks, the most I would want to do would be a cap on the back and to build a bunk, shelves etc. inside. problem with this is, you cant stand up inside which makes changing and everyday comfort a PITA. With the Ram, you have enough power to put a hard shell camper in the rear. For one person this would be more then comfortable. enough room to stand, cook, sleep, storage. I really like the ones where the bunk is extended over the cab of the truck. A lot of room and a nice long flat surface up top to put stuff.

The Ram would be my vote.

Thanks all for the comments, keep them coming!

I like the cummins a lot, I am just not quite so sold on the truck that it is attached to. Maybe one of these days I will find a ramcharger to swap the engine and drivetrain into, with nice bucket seats, and several inches of sound dampening cloth...

Sorry for the silly question, but why 01-03 tacoma? How much lift is required to run 265'75R16s? Thanks for your help on this!

i think the dodge is the best choice in the long run. simple, reliable, easy to keep reliable. the mileage will be close enough between those choices i don't think it really matter. you just can't fit enough gear into a mini truck. i have friends who use them for weekend camping/bike racing and even then its tight. the beds physically aren't big enough to support a comfortable sleeping area AND gear without rearranging every time you want to change your socks...think about it. 15% better mileage for 50% less space? doesn't seem like an even trade to me.

i still think the turtle III/IV is the ultimate expedition setup. that or a 4wd van with a similar build. you just can't fit enough gear into a mini truck. i have friends who use their mini trucks for weekend camping/bike racing and even then its tight. the beds physically aren't big enough to support a comfortable sleeping area AND gear without rearranging every time you want to change your socks...

dodge truck with a FWC pop up on the back. reliable and will pull down 20 mpg.

plus you can carry what you want.

it will fit 285/75/16 or 35's stock .

selectable locker and a winch in front.

dodge truck with a FWC pop up on the back. reliable and will pull down 20 mpg.

plus you can carry what you want.

it will fit 285/75/16 or 35's stock .

selectable locker and a winch in front.

i'm not sure a pop up camper would be right for him because of the canoe or whatever it was he wanted to carry. would you have to pull it off every time you set up camp or would it even support the load when lowered?

I was trying to say slide in. A nice slide in with or with out the bunk over the roof. if you get one that doesnt have the bunk over the roof, put a rack there and you have a place for external gear, water cans, etc. with a slide in you can also mount stuff to the side and the rear. strong enough to put a canoe or small alluminum boat on the roof. I will try to find the thread on the old dodge and F250 diesels that were set up this way.

Well I'll put my vote in for first for a dodge diesel or secondly if you want something smaller a toyota pickup or 4 runner and seriously consider an extended cab over the reg cab for the extra storage space, having had both it would be hard to go back, especially when doing long distance travel.

I had a 1998 Dodge extended cab 4x4 12v auto CTD w/a utility bed, 3.54s and 285 tires. I moved from NY to Fairbanks, Alaska for school so my truck was pretty loaded on the trip, had a high of 20 mpg, low of 14.4 mpg (slow 4wd) and averaged 17.7 mpg over the 6k mile trip. The ride was great, speeds ranged from <5 mph on a few side roads to ~85 mph in some of the open states.

After a few years in AK I sold the dodge for extra cash and got a 1995 Toyota Tacoma extended cab 4x4 w/a 3.4v6/5spd and a cap. I logged about 10k miles in gas receipts mostly traveling for field work into the SW corner of the Yukon Territory. Had a high of 23.5 mpg, low of 12.6 mpg and overall 10k mile avg of 16.4 mpg. That said some of those miles were heavily loaded down with gear on poor dirt roads. As a result I ended up braking a couple of back springs, but that never stopped it, it always just kept going...

If you'll be hauling a decent amount of weight the dodge would be my choice.

Thanks PuddleJumper, I would like to see that thread. I agree, I don't think that a tacoma loaded down with stuff will get better mileage than my dodge. Those first gen ve pump motors really sip the fuel.

As far as carrying stuff, the canoe is easy (light), it is the raft that will present some challanges. My initial thought was a camper shell, then find a used ladder rack that I could modify to support that weight. Between the raft (deflated and folded up) and the frame, there would be about 200 pounds up there (plus a couple jerry cans, spare tire, etc.). I don't think a camper or a slide in will support that on its own? If I used a slide in that wasn't over the cab, I could put a rack on top of the cab to hold the raft I suppose.

I can see what you all are saying about space in a small truck. I was thinking that the extended cab would ease the pain a bit. The problem with the regular cab dodge that I have is that anything you have in the cab is in the way.

Hmmmm.....

If money is no object then buy something new and make it an expo rig. If you are like the rest of us then I would say go for the Dodge. You already have it and its probably paid for. Get the trans service/bands adjusted before you leave. Find a contractors shell for it that has the barn doors on it. Get a roof rack for it. Get good tires, a rear locker and a mulitmount winch. This way you will have the money you were going to spend on a new truck to make your trip longer. I think a website called expo portal has some similar builds on first gen Dodge cummins. They certainly do on Tacomas.

Here is a first gen build up..

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24653

If money is no object then buy something new and make it an expo rig. If you are like the rest of us then I would say go for the Dodge.

Haha, its like "Zen and the Art of Expedition Rig Maintenance". I can assure you that money is definitely an object. You are correct that the Dodge is sitting in front of my house and is paid for, and any money I save on setting up a rig to camp out of, the longer I get to stay gone :) But, the dodge will need quite a bit of work before I feel comfortable using it for this purpose. Some of that will be fun project stuff like racks and good seats. Some of it will be not so fun stuff like a transmission front seal (and at 276k miles, a new injection pump would not be a bad plan, mine is getting pretty tired).

Thanks for the tip on expedition portal, and for that link, that is a great build. Makes me want to build the dodge, and I am only half way through the thread... I am going to spend some more time poking around on that site.

Keep the comments, suggestions, and experiences coming, they are very helpful!

Haha, its like "Zen and the Art of Expedition Rig Maintenance". I can assure you that money is definitely an object. You are correct that the Dodge is sitting in front of my house and is paid for, and any money I save on setting up a rig to camp out of, the longer I get to stay gone :) But, the dodge will need quite a bit of work before I feel comfortable using it for this purpose. Some of that will be fun project stuff like racks and good seats. Some of it will be not so fun stuff like a transmission front seal (and at 276k miles, a new injection pump would not be a bad plan, mine is getting pretty tired).

Thanks for the tip on expedition portal, and for that link, that is a great build. Makes me want to build the dodge, and I am only half way through the thread... I am going to spend some more time poking around on that site.

Keep the comments, suggestions, and experiences coming, they are very helpful!


look on expo portal for a f-350 thread.

guy took a ladder rack that fit over a truck cap and made a platform to place a regular tent on it. cheap and easy roof top tent.

Ive purchased a couple of cab high fiberglass truck caps on CL for cheap (250-350)

the truck rack will hold the weight of the raft/tent and you still have lockable storage with the cap without stressing the cap.

Id stick with the Dodge and buy/build a box in place of the stock bed. Only 6 bolts holding the bed on and you will have 3x the room in a boxtruck camper than in a slide in, unless you get a slide in with slide out sides, but they are major $$$

Either a U-haul with the cabover or a insulated box from a refrigerated box truck. Something like the first gen earthroamer or the 2nd or 3rd gen Turtle expd truck.

Like this one
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879722

or like this 2 parter where the heavy stuff, gen set, batteries water & fuel tanks etc is mountedin the lower section, and the living space mounts above.

That picture is way way way beyond anything that I had in mind. I am thinking a topper with a rack and a 2x4 and plywood platform so I am not snuggling with wet dry bags, containers of motor oil, or my tools... I have no problem taking a shit in an ammo can with a WAG bag, in fact I prefer it if the view is good.

I was sold on the tacoma idea honestly, but the more I look at it, that Dodge might have some real potential. Huh, see that I why I posted this here! "Hey babe, I changed my mind. Instead of selling that junk, I am going to spend some more money on it..." I need to figure out how to re-phrase that!

Look up the "million mile club" for cummins. Ill be honest, I am a Ford guy through and through, but there really is something about a cummins. You also have to think about working on your vehicle. Anytime you do any sort of long distance + offroading, something is bound to break. What that is? who knows. But by working on your vehicle now and fully servicing everything, and knowing what everything is, how it works, what it does, and what it may sound like if it breaks.. well thats something to be said just in itself. I also want to point out since I did not do this before, the Ram is a solid axle front, whereas the toyota would be IFS. IF your doing any kind of offroading, that front axle is going to hold up a lot better then that IFS system. And im not sure if you said this one either, but you said you had a wife. Is she going to be going with you on this trip? If so, how long will she be able to take a tent or a truck cap living area. I still say slide in camper FTW! My buddys father in high school had a similar setup with an extended cab ford. the way the slide in was set up, he actually cut a hole in the front the size of the rear slide windows so that there was an opening between the cab and the camper. my buddy as kids used to stay in the camper while the parents drove. He said he used to mess with is father by going up in the bunk over the roof of the cab and tried to sway the truck side to side.. pretty dumb but i guess as a young teenager you found it hilarious.

That picture is way way way beyond anything that I had in mind. I am thinking a topper with a rack and a 2x4 and plywood platform so I am not snuggling with wet dry bags, containers of motor oil, or my tools... I have no problem taking a shit in an ammo can with a WAG bag, in fact I prefer it if the view is good.

I was sold on the tacoma idea honestly, but the more I look at it, that Dodge might have some real potential. Huh, see that I why I posted this here! "Hey babe, I changed my mind. Instead of selling that junk, I am going to spend some more money on it..." I need to figure out how to re-phrase that!

Well, a fridge, porta pottie and a hot shower make it really nice.
In fact they are a minimum requirement for me. Mostly the hot shower.

When I was an independent trucker I lived in my truck for 5 years, with no house, the truck was my only place to sleep.

I built out a pretty decent rig. Not much space either , the sleeper was 34'' long, about the size of a casket. Was a crawl thru sleeper flat top with the roof the same height as the cab roof, not a walk in. not enough room to stand up.

I used a 16x16 laundry sink that just fit between the frame rails and cut a hole in the bottom of the sleeper floor and dropped it in, so the sink was about 1 inch above the driveshaft. this gave me enough room to stand up.

Had a 3 piece mattress made so I could flip the center section of the mattress to the side hinge up the plywood, step into the sink.

made a 24x24 square from 1 inch couduit and had the shower curtain on that, so you step into the sink, pull the shower curtiain up and velcro it to the ceiling.

Had 2 water 8 gal water tanks, one I cut a slot in the top and dropped a heater core in it, so after the vehicle was running for a few min I had 8 gal of hot water and 8 gal of cold, had a 12v pump and could adjust the hot & cold just like at home.
plenty of storage under the bunk on either side of the shower.

you can live like this:

Or, you can live like this:

I lived in this:

If you;re gonna spend much time living in it, Id build one of these:

Im now too old to sleep in the back of a truck bed.
And being able to stand up inside is a major plus.

http://www.islandercampers.com/slide-on/slide-on.htm

I dig that ford van for some reason, that is pretty cool! Is it yours?

The idea of a slide in is interesting, I see those on craigslist locally for pretty cheap. I could get an old one and redo the inside, then we would have a place to hang out and play cards or whatever on stormy days. And I could have a fride and cooktop, then just use a bumper hitch mounted rack to carry the raft. That would save having to hoist it up onto the top.

BTW, yeah I will have the companionship of a lady on most of the trips I want to take. Not my wife yet, but I am working on fixing that! She is cool with living in a camper for extended periods, it was actually her idea in the first place...

Thanks all for the pictures and comments! Keep em comin', its been very helpful.

I dig that ford van for some reason, that is pretty cool! Is it yours?

The idea of a slide in is interesting, I see those on craigslist locally for pretty cheap. I could get an old one and redo the inside, then we would have a place to hang out and play cards or whatever on stormy days. And I could have a fride and cooktop, then just use a bumper hitch mounted rack to carry the raft. That would save having to hoist it up onto the top.

BTW, yeah I will have the companionship of a lady on most of the trips I want to take. Not my wife yet, but I am working on fixing that! She is cool with living in a camper for extended periods, it was actually her idea in the first place...

Thanks all for the pictures and comments! Keep em comin', its been very helpful.



The van is not mine, the build is documented in this thread:

once its converted to 4wd it will be an awesome expedition vehicle.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879722



a chem toilet and hot shower would make the trips much more tolerable, especially for women.



The down side to the slide ins is they are usually poorly constructed and flimsy, most are made of 1x1 wood studs and beer can aluminum sides,

and you lose alot of storage due to the sides of the pickup bed, the box on the van in the pic is 10x stronger than a slide in, but either way, you wont regret having a toilet, sink, fridge and hot shower. all crammed in a 6x8 space.

I had all that crammed in a 3x7 space. Under the bed.

I see alot of expedition vehicles with tents or with pop up slide in campers, cloth sides are good for a weekend, but not long term, and many times when you stop for a gas or food you will want to hop in the camper and get something, a drink, a book, a jacket etc,and with the pop up roofs, thats not easy.


If it was going to be more than a couple of weekends Id get a cargo box and build all the stuff in it and with only 6 bolts holding the bed on, you could swap it in an hour. having the door on the side of the box allows you to put the bed across the back either permanent or fold up.

Being able to stand up inside is very nice, When I finally bought a rig with a stand up 60 inch integral sleeper bunk, I thought I was living in a castle. No wasted 10 inches where the cab & sleeper meet, and I could stand up to change clothes & shower. Tons of storage under the spring loaded flip up bunk. Heaven.

My g/f went with me on a 2 week over-the-road trip, and spending 2 weeks in a truck cab 24/7---- you get to know the other person pretty well. Thats how I knew she was wife worthy.

http://www.earthroamer.com/

and

http://turtleexpedition.com/

have lots of good info.

The turtle V would be a good one, Id wanna be able to stand up inside, but not sure Id want to have the height of the bed above the cab.

This would also be a nice ride

If you are really thinking of building and the "trails" you want to go on arent too wide, I would consider buying a used U-haul truck and making it 4x4. wouldnt be too difficult. http://www.uhaul.com/TruckSales/

I still say the Ram and slide in is your best bet. They also sell "slide in" campers that you actually replace the bed with the whole camper. No unused space and more room to boot. If you get a normal slide in it is easy to find a use for the unused space infront and behind the wheelwells in the bed. One expedition build I saw they put two water tanks on either side in the front, in the rear they put a small generator on one side and I forget what was on the other. but you could close the tailgate. and the generator fit perfectly there so when it ran exhaust blew right out the rear.

Also I will have to agree with Roundhouse in the fact that I wouldnt want a pop up style camper. too many things to consider, will the pop up be able to handle the weight of the boats while up, and just like he said, what if you want to stop and get back there for something quick or someone wants to try to rest while the other drives. I honestly dont think it would be too big of a deal if the camper is above the cab. Look at all the Earthroamer vehicles, or vehicles built by all of the expedition companies. Almost all of their full size vehicles the shell is above the cab.