Those of you that will think safety first and switch to the rope, try calling TonyK at Rock Equipment.

Rock Equipment is sponsoring CalROCS and will provide the competitors (competitors only) with a great deal.

Rich

www.rockequipment.com

can they beat rockstomper's price at $180 for 150 feet??

EDIT!! tonyk's prices are the bomb!

Glad you could put together this deal, I'll speak with Tony this weekend. As I understand it, synthetic rope is only suggested for your 03 events?

I like to think I do put safety first, in that regard, choosing a rope is a matter of opinion.

My exposure in various multiple comps has seen an estimated triple failure rate on synthetic ropes versus conventional wire rope.

It's a given that the synthetic ropes are less likely to cut your hands, thats why you use gloves for wire rope- that problem is solved.

If my fate, or that of anyone else's, is suspended by a rope, I'll take wire rope any day. I know I've shared this with you before, not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to put all info on the table for the webwheeler who can be easily influenced by what they read.

Hey Ken not that i disagree but I dont know if youve been to anything other than a bob hazel event were theres more than 500 spectators, nevermind you were at supercrawl. Look at how many people that were standing at harms way. I've seen both break and you better be out of the way when cable breaks. I like my body parts intact. That rope just hits the ground. I hang off of a 50' fall on asylum with no safety with that rope, O.K i'm not all there, I think we know that. I'm for rope... I'd rather take a roll because of my rope breaking than have my steel line take off a couple of heads.

Shouldn't you be driving now??:D

Good points, I'd rather roll too than risk taking someones body parts out with a failed wire rope slingshot. When i have seen the wire fail, it was weighted properly and did not fly.

When I've seen the ropes fail it was mostly in man made rock courses (sound familiar:D ) when someone slipped into a hole and was pretty well hung up or wedged. The ropes broke, even with straps around the boulders and the protection sleeves on the rope. These people timed out and fell to the bottom of the score sheet. Same situation with wire ropes, people took the winch points, but finished the course and posted better scores, and they still had a rope on their winch they could use.

I agree, safety first, but their are options and in a comp setting I want the best option that will not strand me on the wrong side of the z-gates. If I could drive as well as you I wouldn't have to worry about the rope on the winch;) Good luck this weekend!

were the guys that were busting the rope running a smaller dia line? I ask because it was my understanding that the synthetic rope was stronger than the wire rope at the same diameter.

I don't know the line size but do know these guys had the same belief- stronger than the wire rope they had and more than their 9k winch rating. They've gone back to wire.

The synthetic is great for race car trailer winches, it'll lay on the ground without coiling up.

injectedEB,

Synthetic rope is stronger, but most failures come from other issues. Remember that synthetic rope can be abraded, it is sensitive to heat (winch brakes) and sunlight if not properly UV coated. And synthetic rope must be weaved to form an eyelet (unlike wire rope) so the strength is largely dependent on the skill with which the rope is weaved.

And one point that many forget is that knoting a rope (as opposed to the eylet weaving) decreases the breaking strength significantly (something like 50%)! Rope is a mechanical device and the strands do slide along each other. Knots constrain that movement and force some strands to take most of the load and fail. Over time the whole rope fails.

All said, I like the synthetic stuff
:p

Originally posted by Busto
Remember that synthetic rope can be abraded, it is sensitive to heat (winch brakes) and sunlight if not properly UV coated. And synthetic rope must be weaved to form an eyelet (unlike wire rope) so the strength is largely dependent on the skill with which the rope is weaved.

And one point that many forget is that knoting a rope (as opposed to the eylet weaving) decreases the breaking strength significantly (something like 50%)!

I'll just make a few notes about the stuff...

Abrasion is the biggest issue. Wire rope can be abraded too, but it's not as quick to happen. It's been a minimal issue for most. Abrasion is a serious issue for Tech-12 (Technora) lines--I've got a chunk of Technora that I got in (it's the high-temp stuff--I can hold it in a cigarette lighter flame and not burn it! :eek: ) but I won't use it for a winch line because it abrades itself away even sliding over smooth surfaces.

Winch brakes only generate heat when powering out. Again, a minimal issue, but if you routinely lower yourself over waterfalls (not winch up them) then cable's probably better.

I know of no company currently selling winch rope that isn't UV-stable.

Eye splicing single-braid rope is surprisingly easy, but you're right, it does have to be done properly. If not done properly, the eye will unravel and the hook will fall off, probably at the worst possible time.

Knots are bad. The stuff should be eye spliced, end spliced, or similar--knotting it will reduce strength dramatically. Depends on the knot type itself, but I've been warned by Samson against knotting it, and their engineers have noted 50% strength loss in knots.

Dead spool stack... I've been through a little of the stuff lately. Those are end plates off the spools. :)

Not to start a big flame and thrash on dealer fest I have acouple of things to say.

That being said, my name is Jim i work for Master-Pull.

We just came out with a new line. It is also a 12 strand, but it has a cover braid that is 1/4in thick.
We have two sizes currently.


our 5/16 started out as a 3/8 and was heated and streatched and shrank down to a 5/16 then we put a 1/4in cover braid over it.

the 3/8 started out as a 7/16 and so on.

the 5/16 has a core strength of 16,500 and the cover braid is 4500, so you have a combined strength of 21,000lbs!!!!

the 3/8 is 26,500lbs. on core and 6500lbs on cover for a combined strength of 33,000lbs!!!!!!

if anyone is interested please take a look at our web site

thanks
Jim

ok, call me ignorant (won’t be the first time) - but if the core strength is 16,500 and the outer is 4500 - I'd still say that the rope's strength is 16,500 as the outer will fail first and then be fully relying on the core strength.
Also if I am reading what you did correctly - you have basically pre-stressed the rope - by doing so how much have you reduced the fatigue life?
I'm only familiar with stress/strain in steels, but there if you pre-stress it -the ultimate strength can be somewhat increased, but the fatigue life and shock load capacity are both decreased.
Is the core strength of the rope measured before or after the pre-stress?

SPAM!!!! This is a discussion about winch rope, not a fawkin advertisement. Go pimp your shit elsewhere.

Dallas

I'm not trying to advertise my stuff, i am trying to tell everyone about options.

i guess it does look that way. i'm sorry

second, rope gets stronger with more use. so by heating and streaching it, it is becoming stronger. the fibers are being pulled tighter and hence becoming more solid.

we abused the hell out of this stuff at supercrawl.

the way it was designed, it pulls on the core and cover equally.

I know of no company currently selling winch rope that isn't UV-stable. Scott,
I agree with your post 100%, but there are some folks that have gone out and bought synthetic rope in bulk and made their own splices and mounted the stuff on their winch. Not all the rope made is UV stable and so someone looking to save a few bucks could make a huge mistake. You obviously know better, but some folks do not.:eek:

Originally posted by StinkBug
SPAM!!!! This is a discussion about winch rope, not a fawkin advertisement. Go pimp your shit elsewhere.

Dallas


you've got a pretty big mouth for someone that drives some shit like this ......:flipoff2:

http://www.houlster.com/trails/LowerPredator/images/104-0426_img.jpg

Originally posted by Busto
I agree with your post 100%, but there are some folks that have gone out and bought synthetic rope in bulk and made their own splices and mounted the stuff on their winch. Not all the rope made is UV stable and so someone looking to save a few bucks could make a huge mistake.

Very true. I was running on the (not necessarily correct) assumption that we're talking about commercially-sold-as-winch-line rope. I've seen nylon (think rubberband) rope on winches before too--that's scary. Not only will it not hold, it'll snap back with a huge amount of stored energy courtesy of the 10-20% stretch that pulls into it. Hell, I've seen guys with knots (seriously) tied into steel cable.

There are a lot of ropes out there that are *not* UV stable, but have a breaking strength around that of steel cable--just 'cause it's strong, doesn't mean it's good.

Jim, I've seen the SuperLine (of course--we chatted at SuperCrawl) and it's very imprsessive stuff. I have yet to play with it personally, but it looks like it should work well. I'm curious about the fatigue life too, but I suspect it's not going to come into play.

I also saw the flip side--one of the guys involved in dragging my flipped-over truck out of 9, was leery of pulling on it with the spotter rope he was handed with which to pull--he thought it was waterski line (sure looks like waterski line!) and didn't think it'd hold. It took two guys telling him it was winch line before he believed it and pulled on it.

The only issue that concerns Calrocs is not killing any of the fans that come out to watch. Many of the events, not just Rich's have become roll fest and that means a lot of winching. It's not very good business to hurt the fans from a possible broken wire rope.

If someone really likes wire rope that much then switch back for trail use. I just installed a new winch on one of mine today and pulling in the rope correctly took about 10 minutes. No big deal.

Safety for the fans should be our number one concern.

Thanks,

tony k

DIDO!