Says Outcast Crawlers... some of these fools need to be outed! Blatant disrespect.


Any one know this guy?

[/url]


another--- wait for the end for full on disregard for the rules bullshit!


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AXjo590F8] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOA-Ux9UK5Q)


Even ignores his buddy to tread lightly-- no wonder trails are getting closed and further restricted. I know, its just some damned brush, but the i don't care attitude is killing the sport/hobby/business. Uneducated yahoos like those referenced are the reason for closures and restrictions.

The second vid clearly shows driving off trail and another rig clearly driving over the same brush.

I know, i'll get jumped to delete the youtube links, but REALLY!?? Really, in these hard times the drivers are proud to show off illegal activity... on OUR trail, not theirs...


rant simmering...

Yes indeed, this stuff sucks big time. The problem is that they don't even think in terms of what they are doing and the impact it can have. The majority of them have absolutely no idea. And they are the one scratching their head when trials close down, and gripe about the Forest Service.

well not unexpectedly the links were taken down-- not me. So if we ignore this stuff then it never happens, right?

well not unexpectedly the links were taken down-- not me. So if we ignore this stuff then it never happens, right?


FYI...the poster deleted his own posts.

Seems word gut out pretty fast. I exchanged a PM with one of the club members and while we might disagree on what is acceptable or not, PLEASE everyone, Tread Lightly!, stay on the established trail, do not drive over live brush and try to set the better example. And you never know who is watching...

Peace.

Seems word gut out pretty fast. I exchanged a PM with one of the club members and while we might disagree on what is acceptable or not, PLEASE everyone, Tread Lightly!, stay on the established trail, do not drive over live brush and try to set the better example. And you never know who is watching...

Peace.



Theres not much to disagree about. The USDA FS is petty clear about the current rules concerning traversing over live vegitation and use of two track trails. people can argue all they want the reality is we dont write the rules on where we can drive, we are governed by others who do not have a liberal definition of trail width. anyone who thinks differently can look in the mirror when the trial is closed. what once was acceptible is no more. back up to the nearest established wide spot and allow others to pass driving over vegitation and off track is the way to contribute to a trail closure.

funny the videos were taken down so quickly if they think they were in the right then how come the quick withdrawl.

look at what I found http://forums.fourwheeler.com/70/8481119/top-truck-challenge/ttc-2011-any-word/page6.html
Looks like their entry, I think there from Reno area or live there. I have seen them at moonrocks looked like they drove there rigs in from the back way.

Originally Posted by Pinecreek in the "HOW MUCH DOES KOH COST"
I am going to do my best to say this with the most tact and respect that I can. We did what you are speaking of in this post and your other one. We have worked for years with a dream, a dream of entering KOH, we worked hard, saved our money, beat ourselves (almost to death, in my husband's situation), just to say we have given this sport a chance. We have put trips a side that we normally would take, our children have suffered, for my husband's dream to race before God decides it is his time.

When we were in Reno, we were stuck in hell, things were not in our favor but we brought forth strength and did our best. I am sorry to say that we felt that we were more of an inconvenience than a team member or family. We felt that we were an outcast, no sponsors, no millions to show, no second buggy to rescue ourselves. We are thankful for the people who came and saved us, God Bless them and their kindness. Yes, Jeff you did try and get us out but in the mean time made comments and statement in the open and under your breath. The things said by you and others were as followed: Not my problem, I don't know what to tell you, another statement made was that if we couldn't afford this sport we should not have been there, a lot of complaining of how stupid it was to have to be helping us get out, this is not something family should say or do to each other.

Were we live, we have new people that jeep with us all the time, they get stuck, we are there all night until they are out. I am sorry to say, but the really family within the KOH group (in my opinion) stands with the people in the rigs induring the race, willing to go the distance, and help others in time of need with a smile on their face. The four next to us in pit were awsome, they were willing to go after us, however I was told that he would be out in 20 minutes. It was 3 days later when Derek Trent, Barbara and Outcast Crawlers drug us out. These are the true family behind this sport. "We don't complain, we just do" If you want more people to spend their money in this sport, don't crush the love they have for it, give them a pat on the back and say damn .... that was an awsome shot. Make them feel like they belong!

At the end of this journey, we have learned a great lesson bring a second recovery vehicle other than you dodge truck and we have spent more than I even want to think about... One person on here says that they believe that it is only $20.00 when they know it is more. My husband's health is bad, this dream is what he refers to as, his last thing on his bucket list. At this time, I have invested my life savings and will continue to invest in this sport because I know what it means to him. When you are passionate about something you push through all obsticles to achieve your goals. We broke, but hey don't we all... that is just part of the sport!! The cost will always be high and if you love it enough the cost will not matter.... I love my husband enough, the cost does not matter!!!

This thread is really confusing now especially with the deleted vids. Implies Outcast was tearing up Fordyce. Good in that the everyone is saying that's not good but someone needs to clarify or we should just delete this altogether.

Another thought is that is it really great to post links to vidoes or pictures presumably showing abuse? We're just pointing out our own role in environmental damage. Maybe a private communication to the other party?

I of course learned that the hard way but it's a good lesson to point out.

This thread is really confusing now especially with the deleted vids. Implies Outcast was tearing up Fordyce.

The videos were clearly showing rigs driving off trail. The thread should stay as is...sends a message.

The videos were clearly showing rigs driving off trail. The thread should stay as is...sends a message.

Agreed, and I believe the post was an effort to find those who had put the videos up. Which worked quite well. The vid's were removed by the guy who put them up.

A club member of theirs was tragically recently killed in a motorcycle accident. His name was never stated at all. Now many of the club members feel the posting of their destructive vids was some sort of attack on the lost loved one or that the man deserved to die for some reason. Hell, he was not even in the vids posted. But in fine youthful spirit personal threats against me are pouring in.

No matter how great a club may be, blatantly driving off trail and over live vegetation and mocking tread lightly are an insult to all that work hard to preserve access to public lands. Then to brag about it adds another dimension. So the club gets called out and guess what, the threats pour in. I'm done with the juvenile attitude and for the sake of Fordyce, police the scofflaws -- in public if 'education' fails. Here is a paste from one nice message sent by a member that incredibly states in essence if brush is next to the trail, its fair game. And the post here NEVER mentions the name 'Ryan." And this is from a guy going to TTC.

Oh, and I'm a life member of Blue Ribbon.

______________
First, yes they mixed Ryan in with the insults on the Joey YouTube. People are scum bags. Second ambulance chasers should know better then assuming things to sound like idiots. The main picture on this site would be off trail then. Trail Etiquette and or law in 25 feet. That was one small bush within 3 feet of trail.

Starting this whole **** storm that you did and including Ryans name into the grouping means you are all just godless pricks. Maybe you should spend time an money donating to actual organizations that support lobbyist activities rather than tarnish people online. Don't worry, I will give a review of your supporting candor and ethics for all to see. BBB and all business review sites. Thank you for trashing the memory of my friend and combining it with the OnTrail video. Should have just left a normal message like an adult not an immature un ethical ambulance chaser.

post copies of all their pms and comments with user names, email addresses etc wherever they originated from. it's always useful to bring to public light what people think they can justify or threaten in private.

Actions behind the scenes and publicly define and speak to the character of those involved. An appology would have shown remorse and an awareness of the error in todays changing times, instead it appears to be the same defense that a drunk takes after a fatal wreck... "It's not my fault the car got in my way". In this case "It's just one bush, it shouldnt have been encroaching on the 25' trail easement". I'd just make their PM's and messages public record then wash your hands of this, you arent creating drama you're letting them show themselves.

If this keeps up then i saw you continue to out everyone of thier comments and info. posting a link to thier own publicly posted videos that depict them doing things on the trail that you dont agree with is perfectly acceptible. You have made no accusations or pointed out anyones name specifically. At this point they are compounding things by retracting the videos and the attacking the whistle blower instead of addressing the issue at hand. npw they are dragging unrelated events and people into the equation in an attempt to deflect. As well they removed the videos to prevent any further public evaluation of thier actions.

Sounds like a bury, deflect and attack tactics

We've all probably done stuff we aren't very proud of.

Calling people out in public works. We've seen it before. How they react can say a lot about them.

Do they man up, apologize, learn from their mistakes, and try to make it right? Or something else?

Seems like its the "something else" in this case so far.

We've all probably done stuff we aren't very proud of.

Calling people out in public works. We've seen it before. How they react can say a lot about them.

Do they man up, apologize, learn from their mistakes, and try to make it right? Or something else?

Seems like its the "something else" in this case so far.

Amen and exactly! This issue has generated a lot of negative drama and i'm done with it, so all we can do is remain vigilant in our beliefs and hope those that choose to ignore well established, reasonable trail guidelines someday change their attitude.

The only way to change thier attitude is to take pictures, names, plate numbers, green sticker numbers, and turn the information into the ruling authority, BLM, Forest Service ect.
When money comes out of thier pocket they will rethink thier actions.

^^ This.



I find that when I'm observing bad trail behavior, I'm usually carrying a camera. I make myself obvious that I'm getting pictures, don't engage in discussion more than to let them know they are not supporting keeping trails open. The camera seems to get the point across that their activity will be publicized.

well the web war continues with threats, innuendo and insults via PM and now calls to my house. Wifey is not happy. They STILL believe the vids were perfectly legal and we are making fun of their actions solely because one of their members was recently innocently and tragically killed in a motorcycle accident. So now i'm intentionally trying to ruin and torment the dead guy's family and now they want blood. The post had ZERO as in ZEEE ROW--to do with that guy and he was not even depicted in the vids. Since they INSIST nothing depicted was wrong, i have dared the poster to repost the links and let the FOF, Pirate in general or any other forums make the call. He's right, i'll admit it. I'm right, he stands up and admits it. So far.....silence and no response to the challenge. Silence speaks volumes...


We've tried 'education' but for those that should know better, a public outing seems the best way to get their attention, and despite the fact those vids were on youtube posted by them, when i link to them i catch hell. Ironic...

The second vid. was taken down before I got to see it.

The first video is the kind of behavior that will get this trail closed.

Renolaw was right in calling them on it. He, like most of us want to keep this trail open. Actions like those in the video cannot be tolerated in todays world.

I actually sent emails to both OutcastCrawlers & sking4air on youtube back in July asking them politely to remove the videos because of being off trail. I dropped the ball and TOTALLY forgot about it but this wasn't the first time they were notified.

posting a link to a publicly posted video so as to question the legitimacy of the actions shown in it should not result in some sort of campaign by those in question to silence Renolaw just for linking it.

If they can't defend or address thier actions that they made public then they should at least be able to acknowledge a learning experience instead these current actions speak volumes.

if this keeps up post the pms etc let the PBB be the judge, you arent retaliating just posting the facts making people aware of the entire reaction

Those videos were posted long before the tragic death of one of their members. Trying to justify one thing by the other to me is disgusting. Just say yeah we were acting stupid and we are sorry. I know renolaw and he isn't the type to out someone unless its legitimate. I saw the videos and it was blatant. Yes it looked fun but that doesn't change the fact it was off trail. And until we have the money and manpower to fight those against us lets not give them ways to throw fuel on their fire. I have wheeled once with a few guys from Outcast and for the most part they seemed okay. :confused:

I apologize for any harm my actions may have caused in going "off trail". It was to my understanding that there is a 25ft rule. According to this I was not off trail. As far as the threats, calls, PM etc. go, I have nothing to do with this. Yes, my good friend was recently killed in a motorcycle accident and I fail to see how that is relevant to the current situation. However, I strongly feel that Renolaw (or RareCJ8 on reno4x4) should never have posted anything about him in a derogatory form which was done on reno4x4.com. To do so against a deceased and well loved friend is disgusting and cruel and he should be ashamed of himself. I take full responsibility for what I do but leave my friend out of it, Mark. If you were as smart as you believe you are then you would know who I am. I did a lot of work on your rig when it was at Four Wheel Parts. Also, I have been on many runs with you.

Jake you are a fine fabricator, do good work and best of luck in the voting. Ryan's name NEVER came up and nothing was EVER claimed he did anything wrong. Nothing was derogatory --expressed or implied. Never. Nada. Zero. The games like hang up calls to the house and insulting PMs must stop. During emotionally charged times things are easily misconstrued and I apologize for any confusion. The vids were labeled "Joey" and thats the name that raised the question 'does anyone know this guy? Shouting "...hey, Tread Lightly!" (in a sarcastic tone) in the vids and then promptly ignoring that sound guideline mocks all that we do to keep our trails open.

While some may agree or disagree, why not put the question to rest and repost the two videos? Let the regular users of Fordyce here watch them and make the call. If I am wrong, I will apologize in bold all caps.

Deal?

This thread is really confusing now especially with the deleted vids. Implies Outcast was tearing up Fordyce. Good in that the everyone is saying that's not good but someone needs to clarify or we should just delete this altogether.

Another thought is that is it really great to post links to vidoes or pictures presumably showing abuse? We're just pointing out our own role in environmental damage. Maybe a private communication to the other party?

I of course learned that the hard way but it's a good lesson to point out.


Very well said! Close thread and utilize personal communication!

The real lesson here is this. The 25 foot rule does not make it OK to drive "anywhere" within that 25 feet. Doing so show a regard for only that rule and no other rule. There are plenty of rules about damage, willful neglect, etc etc etc.

The Dusy Trail is in a 300 foot corridor. The trail lies within that corridor. The intent is for folks to stay on the trail. Lessons learned by some of the people that may not realize the damage they do can turn them in to the staunchest supporters of doing the right thing, I have seen it time and again. Don't be too hard on these guys, but do the education necessary to bring them in to the fold. We need to build our support base because we are so hopelessly out gunned that to do otherwise is foolish and suicidal. These guys are not the enemy, I have seen the enemy and looked them in the eye. This I know.

Scott

The real lesson here is this. The 25 foot rule does not make it OK to drive "anywhere" within that 25 feet. Doing so show a regard for only that rule and no other rule. There are plenty of rules about damage, willful neglect, etc etc etc.

The Dusy Trail is in a 300 foot corridor. The trail lies within that corridor. The intent is for folks to stay on the trail. Lessons learned by some of the people that may not realize the damage they do can turn them in to the staunchest supporters of doing the right thing, I have seen it time and again. Don't be too hard on these guys, but do the education necessary to bring them in to the fold. We need to build our support base because we are so hopelessly out gunned that to do otherwise is foolish and suicidal. These guys are not the enemy, I have seen the enemy and looked them in the eye. This I know.

Scott

You beat me to it Scott. Just because there is a corrider doesn't make it ok to do environmental damage within that corrider. Exactly what I was going to say and the reason this thread will stay despite a report and a request to delete it. We feel there is a valuable message here but we also feel that all that needs to be said has been so we'll leave the thread but lock it.