we went to KOH 2011 and didn't finish. i'll save you the long story and get to good stuff about the car.

i think this year it was official that my ftoy was the fastest ftoy ever running.

there's 2 things added this year that made a world of difference.

1. FOA 2" airbumps front and rear. not 4" bumps. this past year i had 4" bumps and it really limited my travel and didn't let the spring do its job. for the first time ever, the front end of the buggy was out performing the rear in the woops. 4" bumps was also one of the factors of the many rolls that i had over the past year.

2. Gotpropane.com turbo setup. let me just say that this turbo was such an awesome thing that i feel like i waisted the last 7 years of my ftoy's life. i would of had so much more fun if i had this thing turboed.:eek:
the control through the woops was amazing. i could actually punch it when i got to big woops and jump them. i ran in the desert and in the rocks in a higher gear which means i didn't have to shift as much which means i was way faster. it gave me lots more low end torque than what i already had with just the propane setup. :smokin:
from the first test drive, mark and i felt like we were in a real race car now. if you are looking for a cheap way to have some power on a rock solid motor, this is the way to go. for example, when i first got in it on the lake bed, i took it over to the sand hill on the back side of back door. i was in 1 to 1 in the cases and second gear in the tranny. as soon as i got there, i didn't take a run at it or nothing, i turned left in the ruts and dropped to first and spit sand out the rear tires all the way to the top. if you know that hill, then you know that its the left steep side that i am talking about, not the right and that its very sandy and chewed up.:)

some tech: cary set it to 9 lbs of boost which is a bit dialed back from his own car. i have arp studs and a MLS head gasket. i also have a LC stage 2 head. on the lake bed, my top speed was 85 mph in 4th gear at 4300 rpms with the kralwers at 15psi. even on the long up hill stretches when i was in 9 lbs of boost for 5 minutes straight, the temp stayed about 205. i run a 4 runner stock radiator, shrowd and clutch fan. the rest of the day, the temp would be at 190 all day.

thanks to the Gotpropane's turbo and FOA for making this car stupid fast. we were 37th over all at mile 45 after starting 85. we were having a great day until the hammers got me. that's desert racing for you. :)

:)

Thanks for the story Hobie, bummer that you didn't finish, but it happens. The car sounds awesome!

Good to see you out there Hobie!!

I'm glad you posted this up. Alot of us 22R/22RE powered guys running leaf springs are striving to build a faster rig. Youve basically done the R&D for us. Thanks Hobie and good job at KOH.

I'm glad you posted this up. Alot of us 22R/22RE powered guys running leaf springs are striving to build a faster rig. Youve basically done the R&D for us. Thanks Hobie and good job at KOH.

my dream is to build the first ultra 4 ish type FTOY. right now all the ftoys that have been in KOH were WEROCK ftoys that we put full spring packs and better shocks and called it good.

my wheelbase is 103 and it was just killing me. the rear loves to not be on the ground. i would love to have a formula 4 ftoy with a 115 wheelbase. same drive train but with the motor moved back a few more inches. keep the L52, it size makes it a perfect. then the biggest thing, work with a real desert spring company and get some springs that will give us more uptravel when mounted a certain way and not lose too much of its clearence.

right now its 3" too high. if you could make the axles 4" wider front and rear and then settle the buggy down some but with 7" of front up travel, you would have a super fast desert car on your hand.

80 percent of the buggys in KOH this year were too low. they hung up on everything. the drivers were doing all they could but everytime we got behind a "4400" car, we did our best to get around them because we knew they would hold us up in the rocks. so there is a nice balance of clearence and i think its between what my ftoy is right now and the super low 4400 cars are right now.

misconception: most people see my ftoy with full leaf packs right now and think its unstable, but if you go wheel it, its actually deceptively stable because the up travel keep it from rolling in the rocks.

Intersting ideas Hobie. I think its doable, with a couple key components, one being full hydro.

The bucking might be helped with one less leaf back there, and/or some weight (spare tire) back there. I know 60# spare made a lage difference on the back of mine.

EDIT: I think with linkage steering, its sort of possible, but full hydro really allows so much more, so much easier, and safer, IMO. Up travel is why my steering is how it is.

I rode in a damn fast Class 7 one time with leafs all around. It can be done.

I rode in a damn fast Class 7 one time with leafs all around. It can be done.


absolutely it can be done. i talked to jeff deaver about it and he's pretty stoaked about the idea. i was the only full leafed buggy in KOH this year. i like the simplicity of it.

Thanks for the review. Us leaf spring guys need to hear what's working for you so we can make our own plans.

See you on the lake bed next season.

Good Read

I'm gonna play devils advocate for a minute though:


2. Gotpropane.com turbo setup. let me just say that this turbo was such an awesome thing that i feel like i waisted the last 7 years of my ftoy's life. i would of had so much more fun if i had this thing turboed.:eek:


<Devils Advocate>
So now that you've got a turbo'd ftoy do you think the WERock ftoy specs should be adjusted to allow for a turbo or supercharger? I'm not saying it should be added because the WeRock comps require it to be competitive. I'm saying add it because most people with Ftoys want more power for when they are out trail riding, desert running or just screwing around it makes the buggy more fun. I think in previous discussions on this topic we've come to the conclusion that a junk 22r can win in werock and HP doesn't matter in that scenario, so no competitive advantage is obtained by having a turbo or charger. It mainly just makes the Ftoy more well rounded in other scenarios with the added power.

Ftoys are great, simple machines that are reliable, fun and I personally think allowing owners to stay comp legal but have more power by adding forced induction has no downside. I think existing owners would jump at the chance to upgrade the power but still remain comp legal. It might also attract more people to Ftoys.

</Devils Advocate>

This might be the wrong thread for this to go in but since its contains a quote from here I will leave it here.

Also great job keeping it real in KOH. I was really really looking forward to seeing you finish another race but even though you didn't finish it sounds like you gave it a good try, especially running a few miles on foot :eek:

I completely agree with werock allowing turbo/supercharged setups to be run (with my extensive knowledge of werock specs and why things are or aren't allowed, haha). We really want to get back into comping in werock, but we also want to get the ftoy set up better for faster stuff (since I probably wont get my jimmy's rig or bomber 2 anytime soon...), and a propane turbo setup really sounds like the way to go.

I was bummed to not see you come through our checkpoint hobie. It was a lot of fun working on the rig with you guys the week before, thanks for letting me get in the way. :laughing: anytime you have some tubing to be cut, let me know and i'll bring more beer and cookies. :D

I completely agree with werock allowing turbo/supercharged setups to be run (with my extensive knowledge of werock specs and why things are or aren't allowed, haha). We really want to get back into comping in werock, but we also want to get the ftoy set up better for faster stuff (since I probably wont get my jimmy's rig or bomber 2 anytime soon...), and a propane turbo setup really sounds like the way to go.

I was bummed to not see you come through our checkpoint hobie. It was a lot of fun working on the rig with you guys the week before, thanks for letting me get in the way. :laughing: anytime you have some tubing to be cut, let me know and i'll bring more beer and cookies. :D

Shit , I missed beer and cookies??!!

Shit , I missed beer and cookies??!!

yes you did! and you missed jess workin the rig while watched:D

<Devils Advocate>
So now that you've got a turbo'd ftoy do you think the WERock ftoy specs should be adjusted to allow for a turbo or supercharger? I'm not saying it should be added because the WeRock comps require it to be competitive. I'm saying add it because most people with Ftoys want more power for when they are out trail riding, desert running or just screwing around it makes the buggy more fun. I think in previous discussions on this topic we've come to the conclusion that a junk 22r can win in werock and HP doesn't matter in that scenario, so no competitive advantage is obtained by having a turbo or charger. It mainly just makes the Ftoy more well rounded in other scenarios with the added power.

</Devils Advocate>

you have a good point. in 2006, i won the ftoy championship with a CARB! and DOT tires while everyone else was on stickies and EFI. that year, no HP needed to crawl good lines and clock management.

as a former president of the FTOY board of rules, i know from years of experience about the "slippery slope". it always went to a vote but yes we always understood your sentiment.

the problem is, when lil rich figures out some ftoy have some power behind them, the next thing you know, there will be a wall launch at the next comp.

we watched the courses evolve over the years, it was interesting to see how the courses got way harder when people figured out the ftoys are extremely capable rigs.

one of the worst things to happen to the class was when in 2007, we all went to donner. i had personally rounded up about 15 ftoys to meet us there. most were newbies and were scared to compete. i assured them that they wouldnt brake and it wasnt scary, as the ftoys were supposed to be the entry level class. up unto that point in time in the history of ftoy comps, we as a class barely broke anything. it was all about who took the least backups. well in donner that year, the courses got so hard, all the newbs broke and rolled hard. after that weekend, they wouldnt attend another comp.

back on topic - propane rigs have so much torque, add a turbo and wow :laughing:

Hey Hobie did you ever find your gloves. The cookies for me were just at the right time. It was nice to meet all of you. When are you getting started on the new formula 4 ftoy. I would like to help out if I can. It would be nice to see a leaf spring have 7" of up travel.

Hey Hobie did you ever find your gloves. The cookies for me were just at the right time. It was nice to meet all of you. When are you getting started on the new formula 4 ftoy. I would like to help out if I can. It would be nice to see a leaf spring have 7" of up travel.

richie, i already put you down for the cause :laughing:

make that 8" of uptravel :D

i never found any gloves. but i don't remember looking either

this thread needs pics:

the first pic of the ftoy is when we left for the lake bed from Desert Valley Towing.

an awesome crew i had. here's some pics from our garage on the lakebed.

richie and charlie came down with josh. they worked their butt off.

john and keaton DROVE FROM MEMPHIS!!!! just to come out and support me and the only ftoy left in the race since john james abandoned me.

heres the drivers meeting.

john is sitting next to me. you can see the expression on his face is filled with remorse that he wasn't driving an ftoy. :D

of course, the father of ftoys, mike hendrix. (i guess that makes camo the mom of ftoys:laughing:)

and my family came out. my son was on my mind the entire time during pre running and the race. and my 5 mile jaunt i did for some quick exercise :flipoff2:

here's a pic from the start of the race.

i had a friend who drove out from LA. he had never been in a crawler before. i spotted him down the fall. this was his expression on his face as he saw first had what ftoys are capable of.

the biggest thing to happen during the week to our team wasn't the race. it was saturday morning.

long story short: fingers and trailer hitches don't mix

say hello's to jan's new finger. we call him stub now :laughing:

Gnarly!!!!!!

Shit , I missed beer and cookies??!!

Yep, I brought a case of fat tire as promised and 2 boxes or triple chocolate chunk cookies. :D

yes you did! and you missed jess workin the rig while watched:D

Freaking lazy-ass men... give 'em beer and cookies and they make you do all the work... hahahaha. :p
Any chance you could email me that pic hobie? I wouldn't mind having it.



the problem is, when lil rich figures out some ftoy have some power behind them, the next thing you know, there will be a wall launch at the next comp.

There was a wall launch in tuscon last year. It was awesome, but crazy in an ftoy.

here's jess working. and not just posing. she was really working. i forget what it was though :D

There was a wall launch in tuscon last year. It was awesome, but crazy in an ftoy.

Love it or hate it, you can blame that on me. The year before, Id pestered John to run up it, if I made it within 3 attempts. First shot got it. Promod got the best of me. I knew the ftoy could pull it off, easily, and how to hit it. First shot, done. John hit it a couple times to get a feel. I think 3rd shot, and first real try he got it. We both drove over the HUGE pile of tubes as well. Then tried the bumpy side up, and John stood straight up, had enough. I tried it a bunch, got it, front tires on top, and the tcase blew up. Lil' saw all of this, soooo..... that's why you got that launch. In my mind, HP has nothing do do with those. I think its actually a bad thing, as staying in the throttle will ruin your day, especially with power behind the pedal.

Love it or hate it, you can blame that on me. The year before, Id pestered John to run up it, if I made it within 3 attempts. First shot got it. Promod got the best of me. I knew the ftoy could pull it off, easily, and how to hit it. First shot, done. John hit it a couple times to get a feel. I think 3rd shot, and first real try he got it. We both drove over the HUGE pile of tubes as well. Then tried the bumpy side up, and John stood straight up, had enough. I tried it a bunch, got it, front tires on top, and the tcase blew up. Lil' saw all of this, soooo..... that's why you got that launch. In my mind, HP has nothing do do with those. I think its actually a bad thing, as staying in the throttle will ruin your day, especially with power behind the pedal.

I thought it was great. Im pretty sure it was a bonus line, which was perfect, totally doable, but really intimidating.
that pile of tubes was nuts. Watching promods almost flip backwards or sideways off the top was great. :D

Hey Hobie, how was the hike back to the pits from where you broke the tie rod?!?! I was the guy with the KOH program that you looked at to see the map. I couldn't believe it when you started hiking out. That was a long ways! Did you end up making it there and back?

Hey Hobie, how was the hike back to the pits from where you broke the tie rod?!?! I was the guy with the KOH program that you looked at to see the map. I couldn't believe it when you started hiking out. That was a long ways! Did you end up making it there and back?

Was he wearing the farmer john straw hat when you saw him? :laughing::laughing:

Hey Hobie, how was the hike back to the pits from where you broke the tie rod?!?! I was the guy with the KOH program that you looked at to see the map. I couldn't believe it when you started hiking out. That was a long ways! Did you end up making it there and back?

yes i made it in about an hour. it was ruff because even when i wanted to run, the terrain was so rocky and loose i had to hike. i did slip 2x down devil's slide though:laughing:

So it really was the rod end that took you out of the race, it took you out of the car, literally! :D

Hobie is gotpropane thinking about making the turbo kit or was this just for you? I would love to order one from them seeing ho I tired to do my own and well needless to say it didnt work out to well.

[QUOTE=JessD;12535082]
Freaking lazy-ass men... give 'em beer and cookies and they make you do all the work... hahahaha. :p


Yes thats right. Nice job on the ARB line.

Hobie is gotpropane thinking about making the turbo kit or was this just for you? I would love to order one from them seeing ho I tired to do my own and well needless to say it didnt work out to well.

there is no kit as of yet. its hard to make a kit when everyone has a different motor and it all needs to be tuned. even just the propane kit needs to be tuned. unless cary has the car personaly, i don't see him releasing a kit. i know that he is inadated with calls all day long with people picking his brain just so they can build their kits. he has a shop to run and doesnt have time to talk all day about turbos and such. i will talk to him tomorrow and see what he says about making a kit. i think it would be a big seller if he could figure it out. otherwise, just take your car to him. that's that i did :)

I'm amazed that after attending at least 3 epic events where Cary was present I have yet to meet him?! Beginng to think he doesn't really exist. Just some computer generated voice that has all the pane answers........

Was he wearing the farmer john straw hat when you saw him? :laughing::laughing:

Yep, looked pimptastic :grinpimp:

I wish I culd just take it to him but from TN to CA for a turbo is not happening.

I wish I culd just take it to him but from TN to CA for a turbo is not happening.

good news! he's in AZ:laughing:

Not to hijack this thread but what shocks dud this rig run, when I zoom in it looks like it has edelbrock stickers on it, but I've never seen edelbrock shocks that looked like those.

Not to hijack this thread but what shocks dud this rig run, when I zoom in it looks like it has edelbrock stickers on it, but I've never seen edelbrock shocks that looked like those.

those are some shock that frank (beat95yj) built for the ftoy. they work great but you can't buy them anywhere unfortunately. they blow the standard 5150 or 5125 or the like out of the water. unfortnaetly, you cant get a shock like it any where unless you get rebuildable shocks and valve them yourself.

Thanks for the info I am looking at buying some foa's for my xchassis/ftoy build. Any input on those.

Thanks for the info I am looking at buying some foa's for my xchassis/ftoy build. Any input on those.

they work great like any other shock...if you valve them for your vehicle like any other shock:)

there is no kit as of yet. its hard to make a kit when everyone has a different motor and it all needs to be tuned. even just the propane kit needs to be tuned. unless cary has the car personaly, i don't see him releasing a kit. i know that he is inadated with calls all day long with people picking his brain just so they can build their kits. he has a shop to run and doesnt have time to talk all day about turbos and such. i will talk to him tomorrow and see what he says about making a kit. i think it would be a big seller if he could figure it out. otherwise, just take your car to him. that's that i did :)

Shame... I know of no less than 4-5 people in my local area who'd be interested in a turbo-pane kit... myself included.

No rocket science here. Just get a 22ret exh manifold, a gotpropane setup, and buy the volvo turbo from Cary. Set it up to draw thru the mixer. Run an oil supply line from the op switch connection on the block, run a return line to a fitting on the oil pan or drill out the hole in the side of your block where the factory oil return hose is. I would suggest clear hose there so you can see that the oil is returning to the block. Add a boost gauge and adjust the built in wastegate to your desired boost and your golden.Plumbing the charge air tubes is the biggest issue. We used exhaust tube and prebent j bends and connected with sylicone turbo hose.

Cary will tell you himself just throw this setup on a junkyard engine and you will be amazed!

cary mentioned that a kit wouldnt work as there are too many things inside that need to be fabbed and they all need to be fabbed differently according to the buggy or truck it is going on.

but what would work is a diagram and instructions and just sell the main components. like the tubo, guage, misc hoses and clamps, like a DIY kit

Just to hijack the thread some more lol

But yeah a DIY turbo kit would be awsome.

Thanks for the write up Hobie. I have been thinking of how to make my rig faster and this thread has helped a lot. More uptravel and a turbo are high on the to-do list. If nothing else maybe we could get some part numbers together so we could build our own kits but yeah a diagram would be awesome. I'm simple minded so pictures help! :D

cary mentioned that a kit wouldnt work as there are too many things inside that need to be fabbed and they all need to be fabbed differently according to the buggy or truck it is going on.

but what would work is a diagram and instructions and just sell the main components. like the tubo, guage, misc hoses and clamps, like a DIY kit

Total DIY kit, just enough to get in trouble. Folks can learn/figure out on their own, or have a shop that knows a bit about propane work on it. Im sure youd have a lot of very happy people.

Thanks for all the kind words. There are several reasons that I don't do the turbo setups as a regular sale thing. The parts are getting really hard to get, it takes the right engine with the right cyl head, it takes our propane system to fuel it, and it's a time consumer. The other thing is time on the phone with guys not familiar with boosted engines/ tuning. I only want happy customers and the first time someone grenades an engine with a weak part in it I'm afraid I will get the blame. I have spent hours on the phone after selling parts to guys who don't know.


I don't know how I missed you again John:(

time for some more pics

these were all taken by the famous photog Jan Janotta:D

more pics:)

:)

:smokin:

2011 King of the Hammers teaser on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/20227059)

2011 King of the Hammers teaser on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/20227059)

^^^ Nicely done :beer:

I dont care what you say, mine is still an Ftoy. Leafs in front and a toy frame. Good job, sorry about the break.
Robert

the biggest thing, work with a real desert spring company and get some springs that will give us more uptravel when mounted a certain way and not lose too much of its clearence.

Can you explain more about what you're going to get out of a true desert spring and what you're going to give up. Also, what kind of set up are you thinking about doing? High leaf count, thin leafs, long shackles, compression or tension mounted shackle, high arc spring, length, anti-wrap bar. If you don't have the details, I'll settle for your theory right now.

Thanks

:)

I'm going to arrest you next time I see you. That hat is stolen goods!

I'm going to arrest you next time I see you. That hat is stolen goods!

i totally stole that dude's hat :laughing:

wondering what turbo hobie is running?

From gotpropane.com

yeah i gathered that much, but wondering what specific turbo is ideal for desert racing the 22r

Call Carey, but chances are he won't tell you how to build it and I don't blame him.

wondering what turbo hobie is running?

its a T3. thats the easy part.:D