So who is running vented pinion brakes and who is running non-vented pinion brakes? And who likes there setup.

How about taking a solid, non-vented rotor and drilling holes in it like one of the high angle t/c mounted parking brakes?

The rig will see some road miles occasionally and the pinion brake setup i got is a non vented rotor so i am Debating on whether or not to use it.

I would only use vented, especially if you are going street speeds. Remember the gear reduction. These rotors will be turning driveshaft speed, way over 100mph.
Here is my test fit for my rotors.

Dan

FRONT

those rotors look awsome, exactly what i have in mind.

what brand hat & rotor are u usein, and what dimensions?

what brand & size caliper r u gonna use?

how do u plan on mounting the caliper, i was going to weld a plate to the housin to bolt the caliper to.

is the front set up gonna b on the d shaft side?

The hats, rotors and calipers are wilwood. The caliper is a billet wilwood. I am attaching it to the pinion bolts. I will dig up the part numbers. I did fabricate a centering adapter out of T6 allum.
Dan

damn, that just looks cool!!

More Pics

elf_cruiser. Is your single pinion brake a vented rotor? From past posts i think you said your rig gets some road mileage. Have you fried any pinion bearings?

JIm

mine works fine, it's not vented. It's just chevy 1/2ton stuff. No, pinion bearings have not been a problem. But My pinion seal died along time ago. Be ready to change the pinion seal every few months if you don't want your rig covered in gearl oil.

man i need to get a trailer...

So would there be any ill side effects to taking a non vented rotor and drilling holes in it so it will cool better? Or should i send the setup back and buy a setup that uses a vented rotor?

How much did your setup run you dan do you remember?

dan, i was going to use the dynalite calipers with similar rotors. how were r u going to attach the caliper to the axle? i was going to weld a plate to bolt it to on the housing. do you have any pics of the caliper mount?

o yeah, that is a bad ass rig!

I have solid rotors on my Jeep and have had no problems. I did a fair amount of road driving this summer. The biggest thing is don't expect these brakes to work like regular wheel brakes. They are extremely touchy, I have about 1" of brake pedal travel I think....it's more like an on/off switch for the brakes. Leave PLENTY of room in front of you to stop, if you try to stop too quick you'll just lock them up and slid out of control. My pinion seals are fine.

CJ

You think if you used one of the adjustable poportioning valves you could tone down the amount of fluid going to the caliper or is it just too much added power because the brake is before the gear reduction...

I was planning to use some smaller jeep calipers as they don't have a much bite as the larger 3/4 and 1 ton stuff, with a vented rotor...

Dan - what u-joint adapter are you using to go from the pinion flange to (insert series here) joint???

It looks real good regardless...

Matt :D

The biggest thing is don't expect these brakes to work like regular wheel brakes. They are extremely touchy, I have about 1" of brake pedal travel I think....it's more like an on/off switch for the brakes. Leave PLENTY of room in front of you to stop, if you try to stop too quick you'll just lock them up and slid out of control.
:eek: IMHO, that's a good enough reason to drive them on the road as little as possible, if the myriad other reasons weren't enough (braking not by wheel but by axle, brakepads that run really hot and live pretty short lives, no redundancy, no parking brake, etc.)

I dig those axles for trail use, but please try to minimize the amount of road miles you put under them!

Randii

Oh ya i don't intend the rig to be a daily driver by any means. I am talking maybe 30 miles on the road max and only to get to a trail head or in between trails.

CJ - Did you get your pinion brakes from Chucks trucks?


Any body have an opinion on drilling the solid rotors for a little added cooling?

Jim

Heres the wilwood numbers

rotor wil-160-7105 L/H (needs L/H for correct cooling when mounted on front of diff) 12.00" dia. smallest I could get. I will run a loop type guard. 89.00 ea

Hat wil-170-3149 (shallowest hat they make) trying to keep rotor close to diff. 75.00 ea

Bolts wil-230-0150 13.00 kit for one rotor

Calipers wil-120-4997 (billet, because I dont like the cheaper ones with the crossover lines) 125.00 ea

Pads-I cannot remember the wilwood number, but I call their tec. line and explained to them what we were doing and the problems we were having and he recomended one of their special compound pads. 45.00 4pads

The brakes are mounted on the front of both axles, so to clear the Howe double ended steering rams (like Camo's). Had I done it again I would have called Station, and saved some $$$$$$.

I milled some T6 allum. to center and space the hat to the pinion yoke. I have seen some pinion brake jobs and they were "centered" with the yoke bolts, worked but a bit wobbly.

I used the rockwell yoke and original driveshaft yoke for the rear. Milled the allum. and the yoke to fit together inside the hat. Then milled the hat to fit the driveshaft yoke. The spacing between the two was .350. This put the rotor about .200 from the housing. I used the same spacer for the front.

The cailiper bracket will be 3/8 steel plate attached to the pinion bearing retaining bolts and the caliper. (haven't test fit yet) might need slight machining of the bracket.

Dan

Originally posted by tradin1
o yeah, that is a bad ass rig!
Here's a coupl more for you...

I used redneck scan (Took a picture of an 8x10 with my digital camera). Sorry about the quality

I love it TNToy... I hope to make one as worthy as yours some day... j/k but it is nice...

when u said that u used alluminum to center the hat, do u mean to go inbetween the yoke and the hat, with the od of the centering piece the same as the id of the hat?

The hat has a centered hole about 3" dia. The stock yoke has a female round centering ring (the pinion nut goes inside here) and the stock driveshaft yoke is male, This keeps things centered, then the four bolts holds it together. I just machined a spacer to go between the pinion yoke and the hat, then the hat to the driveshaft yoke.
I knew I should have took a picture of the spacer before I assembled it. I promise to post a picture and specs soon. I live about four hours from Frankies shop. I am planning to go down there next weekend and I will get a picture of the spacer.
Anyone in the Memphis area want to ride?? Station??? TNtoy?? anyone??

Dan

Try this link

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52295&highlight=rockwell+pinion+brake

Also there is gobs of info here. Search for (rockwell pinion brake)

Dan

pics would be great. so the spacer is between the yoke and the hat, is there a second between the hat and the yoke?

On the rear the spacer goes through the hat and picks up the drivesaft yoke. I will get the pics next weekend.

Dan

Sorry about the pic quality (they seemed ok when I took them) I need to get my beer googles checked.

another

#4

#?

###

First off I know I should have measured it. Like I said we were drinking. I will have to dissassemble it when i get the rig home for the axle overhaul and I will post the measurements.
Sorry, Dan

I ordered A wilwood catalog on line at www.wilwood.com. The catalog shows all the the part numbers and measurements. I then called their tec. line and talked with the engineers and told them what i wanted to do. I found the right size hat and rotor in the catalog then they recomended the master cylinders and pedal ratios. I have two pedals(side by side, looks like a clutch pedal) one for the front brake and one for the rear.
All the wilwood parts were bought at http://www.kartek.com/

Dan

Daniel, what are you wanting to do????:confused:

Dan

So is there any reason not to run double calipers? Or double rotors on each axle for a little more redundancy/safety?

Just a question....
What the heck are you doing that pinion brakes won't do ?
I've never heard of an off-road truck that pinion brakes couldn't stop with ease. In fact, you'd be lucky if they don't toss you through the windsheild !!


We run pinions (of coarse), on our Monster Truck....and they stop it just fine.

If your finding the need to increase your braking power, then I would look over your setup, 'cause something must be wrong.
Maybe post some pics of it...i'm sure some of these guys can point out the problem.

My buddy that I bought my axles from is where 350 sami got the Mazda disk idea from. Mine has a wilwood caliper which I will add another one on the front. He took the rotor and turnded in the the brake lathe after he mounted it on the pinion yoke to center it up. I am gonna take mine to him after I drill it. He said this helps center it upp and it will not wobble.

Toddy

did you ever measure the spacer for us???

Originally posted by 1SAWB
did you ever measure the spacer for us???

Funny you should ask. I have the new pics and numbers sitting on my desk. I will get them up no later than tomorrow night.

Dan

THANKS DAN
I'M DOING THIS RIGHT NOW

ALSO HAVE YOU DRIVEN THIS YET

Originally posted by Brian in Mass
Just a question....
What the heck are you doing that pinion brakes won't do ?
I've never heard of an off-road truck that pinion brakes couldn't stop with ease. In fact, you'd be lucky if they don't toss you through the windsheild !!


We run pinions (of coarse), on our Monster Truck....and they stop it just fine.

If your finding the need to increase your braking power, then I would look over your setup, 'cause something must be wrong.
Maybe post some pics of it...i'm sure some of these guys can point out the problem.
they are pinion brakes!

those are some good lookin brakes

I think this is what Camo was expecting:flipoff2:

closer

The adapter is 7" dia. the center is .700" thick. The outer dia. is .350" the yoke side is raised .100 and has 3.55 dia. The hat side is raised .250 and is 3.755 dia.



This is the yoke side

hat side

this pic is the clearance to housing

Rear axle assembly (next on the list:flipoff2: )

The caliper brackets are being fabbed right now. Many, Many thanks to the Fed-Ex machine shop guys:D :D


Dan

LOL


painted would have been nice. :D

Caliper bracket 4140 cro-mo

nuther

ram clearance, The allum. fitting was for fit only.

I cut up a rusty spair diff so we could build the bracket without all the shit in the way.

more more i need a fix

dan can you get me a tracing of the caliper bracket or something like that so i can make one??:rolleyes:

Originally posted by 1SAWB
more more i need a fix

dan can you get me a tracing of the caliper bracket or something like that so i can make one??:rolleyes:

Im in the process of making the rear bracket with the spot (parking) brake mounting. Let me get that one done and I will trace them or lay them on a copy machine and send you the dimentions. PM me in about a week.

Dan

I WAS WANTING TO DO THE PAKING BRAKE TOO I'LL PM YOU IN A WEEK

Originally posted by DRM
So is there any reason not to run double calipers? Or double rotors on each axle for a little more redundancy/safety?

would this add to the life of pads? too much heat?less heat?

Originally posted by EXO


would this add to the life of pads? too much heat?less heat?

Its not pratical.

I have finished the rear park/brake assembly. I will post the finished and assembled pics of it this weekend. The parking brake bracket ended up being 3 parts.

Here are two pics of the rear being mocked up for measuring.

rear view

Originally posted by Dan Dibble
rear view

:eek:Fawken sweet!!:eek:

Who's that from??
How much $$??

Originally posted by convertiyota


:eek:Fawken sweet!!:eek:

Who's that from??
How much $$??

From my machine shop friend Rick. Without Rick it would have cost many $$$$$$$$

Finished pics of the front

rear brackets

rear front view

rear side view

rear rear

close up of the parking brake

Here is the rear rotor hat. This machining is required for centering of the yoke.

Originally posted by Dan Dibble


From my machine shop friend Rick. Without Rick it would have cost many $$$$$$$$

Finished pics of the front

He fabbed up the parking brake for you??

not much need for a parking brake with a auto tranny.

Dude - that thing is too nice to wheel now, what were you thinking??!! :flipoff2:

Seriously, I use my $40 line lock for an Ebrake all the time, works great! But hey - that's some badass shite... too bad your just gonna go beat the piss out of it...

damn that sure is purty... all painted up and shiny... i see driveshafts and brake/hydro lines attached, how close is it to moving under its own power? :D

oh yeah, what made you attach the brake on the driveshaft side on the rear? i've seen 'em done on the 'outisde' like your front axle, but not on the 'inside'...

Originally posted by convertiyota


He fabbed up the parking brake for you??

No, just the brackets. The brake

http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/msc/index.asp

55.99 from summit

Crazy thing was, they didnt have my application:confused: :D

Dan

Originally posted by SlamChops
damn that sure is purty... all painted up and shiny... i see driveshafts and brake/hydro lines attached, how close is it to moving under its own power? :D

oh yeah, what made you attach the brake on the driveshaft side on the rear? i've seen 'em done on the 'outisde' like your front axle, but not on the 'inside'...

Im building a new hood tonight then all I lack is wiring. Damn I would hope it to be done by Chistmas. I only get about 2 hours a day durring the week if Im lucky, and normally just sat and sun night to do any real work.

The rear brakes are on the front side, well :confused: The steering was originally planned for the rear of both axles but when I got into link problems on the front the steering moved. The rear just stayed with plan a. Uh I think. Anyway, thats the way its staying.

Thanks for all the good words.

Dan

I GOT YOUR LETTER DAN THANK YOU VERY MUCH I GOT ALL MY BRAKE STUFF FOR FREE FROM A LOCAL SUPPLIER. AND THE BRACKETS ARE BEING MADE RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP.... HOW DO YOUR BREAKS WORK FOR YOU?

DAN DO YOU KNOW THE BOLT CIRCLE FOR THE CALIPER BRACKET THAT MOUNTS TO THE PINION

OK OK, after about five weekend rides and a trip to Tellico heres my opinion of pinion brakes.


THEY SUCK.

Yes I feel I have the most engineered pinion brakes on a Rockwelled rig out there and they still suck.

Pluses

The rig stops
they do have feel (not on/off)
easy to install (only two not four)
less expensive than a similar four brake system
look cool :p

minuses

Noisy (depending on how hot they are) Im getting ready to try a differnt pad compound)
HOTTER THAN HELL (when using them on a LONG decent from the top of a mountain) yes compression braking would help, but thats another story.
Driveline slop (partially due to detroits)

Dont get me wrong they work but are not equal to wheel brakes (never) Brake control/feel is just very reduced.

The plan is to ride them out untill I need new tires then go to 20" wheels/tires wheel brakes (hubs in)

Questions??????

Dan

Master cyc are 3/4 all lines need to be 3/16"

Pedals, one front one rear.

Dan, do you have a detroit in the back?

Detroits in front and back.

Dan

I used to run a detroit in back when I first built my Jeep and noticed the pinion brakes sucked. I took the detroit out and welded the rear and there was a HUGE improvement in how the brakes worked. You definately need to give this a shot, the brakes will work much better.

CJ

FRONT

hey Dan, your front Rockwell leaks.... :eek: (your pic)!!
i thought you said in Elf cruiser's thread about leaky Rockwells, that you did'nt have any seal problem, even in water crossings.
so, do you have some tiny little bit of a leaky Rockwell thing too? :D ?

So who is running vented pinion brakes and who is running non-vented pinion brakes? And who likes there setup.


i'm running a single pinion brake on my rear rockwell. it's a none vented Mitsubishi Montero disk with a dual piston caliper.
i used to have two pinion brakes, but they supplied tooooo much braking power and caused some problems in my front suspension. once i removed the front one, everything was under control again.
braking is easy and immediate, although you have to go easy on the pedal in order not to lock the drivetrain.
never had any problems with it, but then again, the vehicle is only used on the trail and in competitions.
the only downside with my setup is that i do'nt have any emergency brake. loosing brake on a steep downshill, is always my nightmare.
now i'm going to add the e-brake from Willwood.

back to alive..

does anyone have those parts on cad or something and can send it over to me? i need measurment for all holes and stuff like that..

Thanks
Dan

check ebay, there is a pinion brake kit there for the toyota calipers, and vented rotors

I used to run a detroit in back when I first built my Jeep and noticed the pinion brakes sucked. I took the detroit out and welded the rear and there was a HUGE improvement in how the brakes worked. You definately need to give this a shot, the brakes will work much better.

CJ exactly! night and day!

newest update:

I changed to a 1" rear m/c and a 7/8 front m/c. Also changed from "D" compound pads to "E", changed from 1/4" lines to 3/16"

M/C and line change was to "firm" up the pedal. This combined with the new pads has made my brakes very tollerable and for now most likely not change to wheel brakes.

They seriously feel real good.

As I have said In the past if anyone is at a event where we are and want to drive the buggy just ask. (just dont barrel roll it down tha mountain like last weekend) OneTonK5 and Station are Fawkers.

Dan

I did get to drive it a little this weekend and the brakes worked great.
I hope my crap from Daniel can be made to work as well.

Dan: WELD THE REAR AXLE :flipoff2:

Cool to hear it.I am glad I did not win your master cylinders from ebay now after reading this..lol.. :D

Randy had taken my idea to the next level. While he was here visiting we discussed building a improved pinion brake. So we used some of my ideas and Randy fine tuned them. Now there is no spacer/hat just a one piece center.

Heres the link

http://www.ouversonengineering.com/inc/sdetail/104


:smokin:

mmmm, must have one....

Randy had taken my idea to the next level. While he was here visiting we discussed building a improved pinion brake. So we used some of my ideas and Randy fine tuned them. Now there is no spacer/hat just a one piece center.

Heres the link

http://www.ouversonengineering.com/inc/sdetail/104


:smokin:

Leave it to Randy O to develope the most bling pinion brake set-up out there! Looking good...


Dan, where are the tech photos???? cough, cough......errrrr photos of the ladies doing the install :cool2:

those look sweet, I like the Super 8 :cool:

Damn that is a sweet looking brake set up.He told me you were going to be posting the good pic's soon..:D

yeah i just gotta say thanks to dan for sending me down the right path. this one was much easier to make than the old one i had. plus this one has two clocking options, 1 oclock and 3 oclock, depending on which braket you want. also you can flip the bracket for 9 oclock or 11 oclock. brackets are laser cut and nickel plated, L-9 hardware for the pinion bearing retainer cap and absolutely everything you need except for the flexible brake line. wilwood rotor and caliper. wait till you see the shreader. later, ro