I've got a D60 driver side pumpkin. Need to more it over to passenger side. I know most people take the "easy" approach and simply cut the tubes. Insert a shim in the ID and then butt weld.
I wanted to do it right and remove the tubes from the housing itself. After about 30 secs of drilling I realized there was no way in hell I was going to drill out the housing-tube spot welds.
Question is? Do you think I can plasma cut out these spot welds? I've got a 1/2" plasma cutter. I'm worried about damaging the housing. Anyone more technical on the subject?

Devin

why not sell it and get another housing??

might be more trouble than it's worth

JESUS! Typical answer on pirate4x4. Damn. Why can't people simply address the question for once?

Who cares why I'm doing it? Or what is easier? Maybe I just like a challenge. Or maybe I want the HP. I can say I don't buy a thing pre-fabed expect my tools & raw materials.

So does anyone familiar with mods like this have any suggestion for getting those spot welds on the housing? If not, go to the next thread. Torching them is scary b/c of the heat. I don't see why a plasma cutter wouldn't do the job. Sure is an expense item to experiment on.

I did a similar thing to what you are referring to.

I had a std Jeep rear D60 and removed the tubes and pushed them into a Tera 60 centre. I had to go and buy about 5 carbide tipped drills (I think some of them were just masonry drills) and mounted the diff housing under a 3 axis milling machine. After about 4 hours of machining I finally had all the rosette welds machined away. I did not even want to go all the way through the tube as I wanted to save them.

My dad then made up a small ram to fit in between the tubes and we pressed them out. It was a pretty major job.

When we went to re-assemble we machined them to have 5-10 thou interference and combining ice and heat we were able to push the tubes into the new housing with minimal drama.

I have some pics on my website if you are interested in the diff sections.


My Web Site (http://www.eese.bee.qut.edu.au/QUAV/Rod/cj2a/97_white_tj/index.html)

Rod

Here's the search terms you can use: rosette weld drill
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=334744&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

This is the best post from that search, but there are other good ones...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32815&highlight=rosette+weld+drill

HTH,

Randii

Originally posted by dcg4403
JESUS! Typical answer on pirate4x4. Damn. Why can't people simply address the question for once?

Who cares why I'm doing it? Or what is easier? Maybe I just like a challenge. Or maybe I want the HP. I can say I don't buy a thing pre-fabed expect my tools & raw materials.

So does anyone familiar with mods like this have any suggestion for getting those spot welds on the housing? If not, go to the next thread. Torching them is scary b/c of the heat. I don't see why a plasma cutter wouldn't do the job. Sure is an expense item to experiment on.

How about you SEARCH next time? I searched, and found all the answers you'd ever want.

Bryan

These guys are right you know, about doing a search.
We've covered this a few times.
Yes a plasma cutter works well for removing rosettes.
I used a die grinder, then used a 6 ton jack inside the housing, heated the housing ends a little and smacked the inner knuckle with a BFH.
IMO, If I where you, I would pull the short side and retube it but cut the long side. Then set your pinion angle and re attach the inner knuckles to the desired caster.
Have fun setting those knuckles and pinion angle by just removing the tubes and switching them.

You have a Ford housing? Seriosly I would try to trade it on a Chevy. (that is unless your Ford is HP)
That way you can forgo all the work as far as re-tubing and go with 35 spline stubs without the $$ conversion.

HEy Doctor,

a plasma DOES NOT work well for rosette-weld removal.

I damn near ruined the gun on my Hypertherm 1100 (1.250" cap)

plasma..... I tested this on a donor/junk 60 housing BTW.

all it accomplished was: nearly ruined plasma gun, and made

A WHOLE LOT OF MOLTEN METAL BLOWING UP IN MY FACE.

I do know that shops use "arc-air" for removing welds.... you

could check into that.........

here's what you do:

spend 8 hours making some "fixtures" to hold the axle assembly
for use in a bridgeport mill.

you then take the fixtures, and your axle to a machine shop
to have them drill the welds out. you pay the shop owner
$150 bucks, and leave with your junk.

then hopefully you already have a 50-ton press at home. or,
you spend 4 weekends making one.

using some pipe/tube for pressing, hopefully the housing doesn't
crack, deform or get tweeked....

I did 2 RC60 ford housings........

lotta work, lotta time, lotta money.

but if you were close to San Jose, I'd let you borrow my fixtures,
and can recommend a local machine shop for the milling work.
plus I still have my 50ton press...

--Sherpa

Lay the axle housing on a Bridgeport and mill those welds outta there. Easy, fast and clean......

BTDT.....;)

Originally posted by billj
Lay the axle housing on a Bridgeport and mill those welds outta there. Easy, fast and clean......

BTDT.....;)

billj get's one out of three correct.

IT'S NOT EASY

IT'S CERTAINLY NOT FAST

IT IS CLEAN THOUGH.

--Sherpa

Originally posted by SHERPA


IT'S NOT EASY



What could be easier than laying the diff housing on the mill and cutting away the welds?!?! Granted, you gotta have the equipment at your disposal, but if you do, it´s super-easy...

Originally posted by SHERPA


IT'S CERTAINLY NOT FAST



I had both tubes pulled out of the diff housing in 04 hours. For me, that´s fast......;)

Originally posted by SHERPA


billj get's one out of three correct.

IT'S NOT EASY

IT'S CERTAINLY NOT FAST

IT IS CLEAN THOUGH.

--Sherpa

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/TJCrawler/MyDeTubedPumpkin.jpg

Originally posted by Jaffer


http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/TJCrawler/MyDeTubedPumpkin.jpg

Hey,

I resemble that housing!

how's it going MR Jaffer?

when are you gonna build those?

--(Almost wishing I kept them).........

--Sherpa

yeah Doc, it's my opinion...

here's what I tried first:

hougen-carbide-tip hole cutter. cost: 50 bucks. worked ok
for about 12 seconds..........

next:

die grinder: cost: another 50 bucks for some good carbide
cutters... worked "o.k." for awhile... it destoyed 4 cutters in
about 2hrs.... (I hope you LIKE small sharp shavings) I don't.

carbide drills: cost: another 40 bucks.... no worky.

next: 1.250" capacity HYpertherm plasma.... tested on donor/
junk 60 first. amps were on MAX.... air at spec pressure.

all it did was shoot ALOT of molten metal back up into the torch
handle, and into my face. boy, that was fun. not.
cost: about 50 bucks worth of replacement parts.

the machine shop that drilled the welds out said: "this is by
far the hardest shit I've ever had to drill thru".... word...
and this guy wasn't a bozo, he owns a multi-million dollar shop
with 4 cnc's cnc-lathes, and about a dozen man-mills. so I think
he knew his stuff....
he had to resharpen the mill bits about every hole to keep things
moving.......

--so, yeah, plasma works great, it's clean and quick. yup.

now, I know a axle-builder that only uses arc-air. their cuts are
clean, and quick.

so, if ya got a large DC welding power source, say, 300-400 amps.
then go that way.

--Sherpa

also, I don't think using heat my self is the way to do it.......
that's why I had the welds milled out..... no heat was used in
removing the tubes either.... it took a 50ton press to do it...

Originally posted by SHERPA
HEy Doctor,

a plasma DOES NOT work well for rosette-weld removal.


I believe that is your oppinion which, you are entitled to.
I know guys that use a plasma gun, guys who use a torch and some that use air-arc and those things work for them.
I use a die-grinder, it's cheap and clean but, just takes a bit longer.
(IMO) I can't see spending 8 hours to make a fixture and then spending another $150 to remove plugs. Unless you'll be doing a lot of them AND you allready have a Bridgeport.
I can remove the rosettes with a die grinder and pull the tubes in less than 8 hours.

EDIT:
Sorry Sherpa, we're getting crossed up, I deleted that other post, it didn't turn out right.

I got a hp ford I would like to get done also.
Would rather pay someone local and with experience to do it.
Am not having much luck with that though.

Sherpa,
I use cylindrical and conical shaped stones in my die grinder.
Carbide burr didn't work for me either. :D
I have a Bridgeport and I tried cobalt drills, the rosettes laughed at them.
A carbide tipped masonry bit worked...........for 1 plug. :mad:
I didn't want to risk using a carbide end mill, I may try that next time. ;)

Hey Doc, all is good............

I like this:

> "Instead of being a trail guide, you should put on a clown suit and give pony rides at kids' birthday parties"


so, I see you've been on Sierra Trek before on a saturday!

--wheel on,

--Sherpa

Why not torch them out? You expose the assembly to several (10) times that heat when you weld it...

Bryan

Originally posted by SHERPA
Hey Doc, all is good............

I like this:

> "Instead of being a trail guide, you should put on a clown suit and give pony rides at kids' birthday parties"


so, I see you've been on Sierra Trek before on a saturday!

--wheel on,

--Sherpa

LOL. Actually it was at a SITR event. Signed on for some challenging trails and wound up driving around all day on dirt roads. When the guide stopped to have us :rolleyes: "watch" some crawlers getting it on a creek bed, I went off. :D

I got a hp ford I would like to get done also.
Would rather pay someone local and with experience to do it.
DING! That's the winning plan, I think, unless you really want to say you did it yourself...

Contact Sean at River City Differentials, or call the Currie boyz:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/html/custom/rearendservices.htm
http://www.currieenterprises.com/html/custom/dana60/rearendDana60misc.htm
Those links shows their prices -- IMHO, those are pretty fair prices for the work that they do -- shipping may put a kibosh on the deal, tho.

I credit the folks who do this on their own, but I can't see doing it in my shop, and I have a torch, plaz, and press at my disposal, and a buddy in town with a full machine shop.

Randii

I've never even tried to drill out the rosettes, that shit's hard, and I have never had much luck with a torch, what I have had good luck with is cutting rod that you use in a plain old arc welder, get like 1/8" or 5/32 and crank up the current. It takes about a half hour to do all of them. It works best if you just blow a hole through the tube, so you will probably end up re-tubing.

Originally posted by GOAT1
It works best if you just blow a hole through the tube, so you will probably end up re-tubing.

My axle guy burns them out, but if he's shortening and needs that part of the tube, he'll weld it shut, then turn it down so it's smooth again.

Bryan

Great stuff guys. Still undetermined at this point. I would like to use my plasma cutter (1/2" capacity) but I also don't want to replace every consumable.
I think I'll try annealing the rosettes and then drilling them out. If not, I'll go with a die grinder. If not, I'll try my plasma cutter. If not, I'll crank up the older Lincoln box and try to burn through them. If not, I'll get a stick of dynamite and blow the whole damn thing up.
BTW, as usual I tried to do a search and found some info. Just not as good as this stuff. This has been a very helpful post. I thank you all.

Originally posted by dcg4403

I think I'll try annealing the rosettes and then drilling them out.

I forgot to mention that. Before I tried to drill them out, I made an attemp to anneal the rosettes. I think the housing has too much mass to be able to do it properly.
What I mean is, almost as fast as you apply heat to the plug, the housing pulls it back out and the plug won't cool slow enough.
Like I said, I tried that and then set it up in the Bridgeport and took a cobalt bit to it.
The bit just danced around on the surface. It finally made a shiny spot after about 3 minutes of hard drilling.........screw that.

Originally posted by dcg4403
I think I'll try annealing the rosettes and then drilling them out


have to agree with Dr. G on this one.

I searched this same thing a year ago (probably pulled up my thread on a search)

Tried the masonary... ha, what a joke. Masonary bits are desined for pulverising stone, not drilling metal. The profile is all wrong and it laughed at me.

Some said "anneal the thing then you can drill it like butter". Sounded good in theory, so I bought a rosbud tip for my torch, and went at it. Got everything nice and cherry hot, BUT the rosettes. So I switched to my cutting tip to get a much more "pin point" heat for the rosettes... got it nice and hot, hit the O2 and WOW, blew right through it.

After that, took about 20 min (maybe) to blow all the welds out, then some pipes and such and a sledge hammer to drive the tubes out.... couple hours and it was done!

I'd suggest torch, and blow through the tube. Then just cut down, re-tube, or weld up and turn down... new tubes are pretty cheap though (you an even get chromemoly for pretty cheap, then turn the ends down and turn for the seals)

Rusty,

now that you've completely changed the integrity of the cast
housing, you think it will be as strong as BEFORE you heated
the hell out of it with that torch?

does DANA heat the f_ck out of the housing to press the tubes
in?

I doubt what you have left there is worth it's weight in scrap.

--just my opinion, besides, I've been told before I don't know
what the f_ck I'm talking about anyway.


--Sherpa

does DANA heat the f_ck out of the housing to press the tubes in?

I bet they heat it up quite a bit to make the pressing easier, then they weld the tubes to the housing? Again, my axle guy does this day in day out, I don't see how the torch could do any more damage than welding to it.

I'm just trying to understand the basis for your statement(s).

Bryan

now that you've completely changed the integrity of the cast
housing...
Just to clarify, you're worried about uneven heating and mis-paced cooling?

If the whole axle (kaching!) were brought gradually up to temperature, then coasted back cool (as if you were production-annealing a part), would you still have this concern?

Randii

Ok, I've tried everything but using my plasma or a torch. I have a pretty good solution. BTW, those masonary bits do work. Thing is, you'll be spending some dough replaced them every 3 minutes. It took me three 1/4" bits to get through one rosette. I still needed to bore out a 1/2" overall diameter.
Anyway, I keep hearing the term "air arc". I searched on the net and couldn't find jack on these things. So being a crazy engineer, it came to me. I nice rig job. Actually, I simply took my Lincoln box welder, cranked it up to max (275amp I think, too lazy to look), used 6011 rod, and started blasting through my rosette. This was done very carefully WHILE I also used my compressed air nozzle and blew out the molten metal. :flipoff2:

It seemed to work very well. I was able to control my burn quite a bit. I just scored the surface of my axle tube from my measurements. I figure I removed about 80-90% of the material. I just need to grind out the excess. A huge time and money saver. :D
Oh, before I did my burns. I prepped the area around the rosettes with mig gun nozzle-gel. This prevents splatter from sticking. I was worried about heat. Of course, my diff did get hot but not nearly as hot overall as a torch cut. I placed my finger on the area around the rosette without burning myself.

Devin

Here is one way I did it. I used a hole saw that was just larger then the plug weld. It took some time but worked great.

Next chained the housing to one side of a dozer yoke, hooked a come-a-long to the other side. Cranked it tight, heated the center with a tourch (about 1 min) came right out.

heated center, and iced the tubes, slide right together.