Not looking good...
I just heard some not so good news through one of the Town of Yucca Valley Council Members today. Anyway, below is what I found and copied from a local radio station's website:


MARINE BASE EXPANSION EIS NOW AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW
The Draft Environmental Impact Statement or EIS for the proposed Twentynine Palms Marine Base expansion is now available for review and comment. Base officials released the draft EIS Wednesday. The EIS was prepared to evaluate the impacts on the proposed expansion of the sprawling marine base. A copy of the Draft EIS is available on line at www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las. The Marine Corps will be holding open house style public meetings to inform and educate the public about the expansion, alternatives under consideration, and to allow public comment. Locally, a public outreach meeting is planned for Tuesday evening April 12 from 5 to 9 at the Copper Mountain College’s Bell Center. Written comments can be submitted and must be postmarked by May 26, to 29 Palms EIS Project Manager, 1220 Pacific Highway, San Diego, Ca. 92132.



And this is what is posted on the Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center website:

Land Acquisition/Airspace Establishment Study

Marines must train as they fight. The Marine Corps must fulfill training requirements for a large-scale, Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF). This requires more training land and airspace than is now available anywhere in the United States; the training area must at a minimum provide three maneuver corridors for a ground combat element comprised of three battalions that are simultaneously maneuvering for 48-72 hours with combined-arms live fire and the accompanying special-use airspace; a Center for Naval Analyses study shows that Twentynine Palms is the only location with sufficient land and airspace potential to meet the training requirements.

Here's where to find the EIS:


http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/LAS/Pages/EIS.aspx

A friend of mine is a close friend to one of the Marines in charge of the land take over. He is pretty convinced they will have Johnson Valley by 2012. As stated above it is mostly for airspace for jet fighters.

i sent letters and everything a long time ago but i have been overseas and not following this latley. how much of johnson valley are we going to lose when this happens? all of it? sorry for my ignorance on the issue

nevermind just found it here

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=866301

how will the joint use areas work?

If you go to this site, click on the map and drag it over to Johnson valley area, you can see the airspace they have to work with.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=34.4024013899613,-117.823916132244&chart=24&zoom=

Joint use means they get 100% when they run excercises; we get it when they are not. If I remeber correctly, exercises would be twice a year for 1 month increments.

That is 100% of just the area defined, not all of Johnson Valley.

I encourage all to write another letter especially being they currently have a place on their site asking for such... "Submit Public Comment On Draft EIS"

Here's a direct link: https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/

Getter done!

I encourage all to write another letter especially being they currently have a place on their site asking for such... "Submit Public Comment On Draft EIS"

Here's a direct link: https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/

Getter done!
Done

I have sent my comments. If you enjoy JV make feelings know. If they decide to move into JV it will take almost all of it. No more Means, Hammers, Soggy, Rock pile area.

Why are we always getting screwed?

done

:confused:Did anyone notice that they want comments on this air quality conformity stuff by March 28?

http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/LAS/Documents/EIS/Air%20ConformityDeterminations-29%20Palms%20LAS%20Project.pdf

Submit written comments on that ASAP to:
Naval Facilities Engineering Command, Southwest
ATTN: 29Palms EIS Project Manager
1220 Pacific Highway
San Diego, CA 92132-5190

I wonder what the big rush on that is and why they can't at least extend the comment deadline until after the public hearings in April ?

Public comment period for Draft Environmental Impact Statement runs from Feb 25 to May 26.

Public comment period for Draft Environmental Impact Statement runs from Feb 25 to May 26.


So why do we have to comment on just the air quality stuff by March 28?
Something seems very fishy here that they are pushing that part of it through before having even one public hearing.

http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/LAS/Documents/EIS/29_Palms_EIS_NOA_NOPM_-_FINAL_-_2011-02-14_%20rev%2015.pdf

I encourage all to write another letter especially being they currently have a place on their site asking for such... "Submit Public Comment On Draft EIS"

Here's a direct link: https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/

Getter done!

done!

here's mine:

As a current military member, I can completely understand the necessity of having a place to train our Marines. As an avid off-roader, I also understand the need to keep what little public lands that are designated for off-road use...only for off-road use. In a time where we are constantly losing off-road areas to "wilderness acts" and other forms of land grabs by environmental groups, I feel that the government attempting to aquire what little we have left is completely un-acceptable.

I am currently stationed on a shore command in Bremerton, WA with the US Navy. In the past 6 months I have made the drive down to the Johnson Valley OHV area 2 times and have another 2 trips planned in the next 6 months. It is close to a 2500 mile round trip drive each time. I have spent thousands of dollars on fuel, food, and other necessities to make those trips. While I know I am just one person, i would like to think that my contribution to the cities and towns (especially given the current economy) would not go un-noticed.

I also know of people who travel, multiple times, from different parts of the country even further away than me. At the last King of the Hammers Race there were multiple teams from the east coast, some from canada, and even one team who shipped their vehicle from hawaii to compete. If the marines take over the proposed land, the race is all but done for. Think of the impact that will have on the small towns of Yucca Valley, Landers, Lucerne, Apple Valley, Hesperia, Victorville, and Barstow. Not to mention the economic impact on all the cities across the country where people were stopping to buy food/fuel/suplies.

also, the impact of condensing the thousands of off-road enthusiats into a smaller area must be thought about. every year environmental groups claim that we off-roaders do more damage than good, and while i disageree with their assesment, I feel that their fears will come true should the marines take the proposed land. while a majority of off-roaders are avid "tread lightly" fans, unfortunately when you put the same number of people into less than half the space their impact will more than likely double. so if the marines get their way, 3-5 years from now we as off-roaders will have to fight the environmental groups to keep what little the government left us.

in conclusion, while I fully support the need for the military to find an area to adequately train it's soldiers I do NOT support the marines expanding the 29 palms base into the Johnson Valley OHV area. I do NOT support any "joint use" areas and believe that the marines should either expand the 29 palms base another direction or locate another suitable area.

Done. Letter sent.

letter sent.

The air quality determination by itself has a 30-day public comment period. Because it is a part of the draft environmental impact statement, you can still make comments on it through the DEIS comment process through May 26.

DONE, letter sent!

I'm movin to Canada if they take it, in protest.
Seriously, the gov needs more f'in land? WTF

Letter Sent:

Keep our public lands accessible by the public.

Done, sent. Please send more letters in guys, we can't lose this one too.

here's mine:

im not bitching at you redneckrea but do you think they give a fuck about our towns and economy?

they run off of borrowed fake money anyways so i bet theyd read that and not give a damn:shaking:

bump

Letter sent!

IMPORTANT:

If you want to ensure that you are writing effective letters for this, PLEASE take the time to read this Power Point:

http://www.kurtuleas.com/comments1.pdf

It will teach you how to write EFFECTIVE letters for this kind of thing.

I may gear up the letter generator with sample talking points if everyone thinks it would be benefical...

Kurt

Let me get this straight, if they get the land, they will only use it for 2 months a year and the rest of the time it will be open to us?

Let me get this straight, if they get the land, they will only use it for 2 months a year and the rest of the time it will be open to us?

Take a look at this map, it's of Altertative 6, the prefered (by them) alternative. The yellow area to the south is the proposed shared use area that would be closed two months of the year. (I have never heard whether these would be consecutive months, or split up at different times.) The green area to the north would be closed, off limits, gone for good.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=866301

here's mine:

Thanks for the inspiration. I wrote my own but used your ideas:

To whom it may concern:

I am a patriotic American and an off-road vehicle enthusiast. I support the need for America's fighting men and women to have realistic training areas. However, I DO NOT support the acquisition of the Johnson Valley OHV area for our Marines to train.

Multiple-use recreation has been constantly attacked by environmental groups, and we have been forced into ever smaller and smaller areas. Johnson Valley OHV area is THE premier OHV area in the entire country. Its closure to off-road use is unacceptable. The military has the ability to take nearly any area necessary for training—please select another area.

I travel to the Johnson Valley OHV area annually, and spend thousands of dollars of my hard-earned money each trip. When several tens of thousands of people visit the area each year for rockcrawling, mining, desert racing, motorcycle racing, and camping in the desert with their families, the impact of our use is beneficial to every community along the way when we stop to stock up on food, fuel, snacks, parts, etc. The economic impact of this closure to the nearby California communities Yucca Valley, Landers, Lucerne, Apple Valley, Hesperia, Victorville, and Barstow will be terrible.

Finally, just as has happened when environmentalists have closed our trails, responsible off-road enthusiasts are forced onto ever smaller areas, and even though we go to great lengths to Tread Lightly and minimize our impact on the environment, our impact is cumulative. The vast majority of us are patriotic supporters of our armed forces—please do not take so much from some of your biggest advocates.

I am in full support of a realistic training area for the Marines.
I am in full opposition of using THIS area to train Marines.

This is far from a “not in my backyard plea”. Please do come to Montana to train. I am certain there are lands here similar to Afghanistan.

Done and sent. It only takes a few minutes to write a personal letter and I'd like to think it still makes a difference.

here's mine:

Well said! Mine is done too-

Is there anyone is SoCal that is willing to hold "comment writing workshops" for this at their home?

Would anyone here be interested in attending one to make effective comments if I can get a few rolling?

Done and done. At this rate if land isn't privately owned there isn't going to be anywhere to do ANYTHING OHV related.

Why are we always getting screwed?

Because it has been WRONGLY preached to wheelers that if we are nice, we will get our way. When is the off-road community going to realize, that being "nice", is absolutely taken as a sign of weakness.

I am so sick and tired of hearing from fellow wheelers, that we shouldn't "offend" those that are offending us! :shaking:

When the off-road community decides to get militant, then I will help. Till then you re just spinning your wheels sliding backwards down a hill that we won't conquer with the present train of thought and tactics.

It is a sick joke that is being played on us. They "give" us a crumb for token victory every now to appease us, but the land grabbers end up taking the whole pie. Just look at how much has been taken. Why do we even have a Tellico forum? Tellico is gone too! The list grows every damn month.:mad3:

If writing letters and giving money to multiple pro off-road organizations will make you feel better, absolutely go ahead. I commend you. Until the very splintered pro-off road groups decide to BUILD one extremely strong organization to viciously fight using tactics such as used by the Sierra club, the NRA and other groups that have effective National and state lawyers and lobbyist, we will NEVER gain sufficient ground.

We need ONE very large, not multiple smaller national organizations that encompasses ALL of the ATV, 4 wheelers, mud runners, snowmobilers, motorcyclists, ect. Then we WILL have a true voice in Washington.

done

Done.

At this rate if land isn't privately owned there isn't going to be anywhere to do ANYTHING OHV related.

Unfortunately that's what a majority of east coast OHV areas are.

DONE... Its easy. Just fill it out, say what you have to say and send.


https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/


.

Done.



Unfortunately that's what a majority of east coast OHV areas are.

Same in Texas. Everything here is private.

The part I love is that this area is now going to be used for live fire excercises, So much for tread lightly.

DONE... Its easy. Just fill it out, say what you have to say and send.


https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/


.

Thanks for posting this. Sent!

I just submitted the entire Pirate Virtual rally for JV as a comment.

I just submitted the entire Pirate Virtual rally for JV as a comment.

Cool:smokin:

message sent.

Done, message sent.

Done

Done. Letter sent.

Because it has been WRONGLY preached to wheelers that if we are nice, we will get our way. When is the off-road community going to realize, that being "nice", is absolutely taken as a sign of weakness.

I am so sick and tired of hearing from fellow wheelers, that we shouldn't "offend" those that are offending us! :shaking:

When the off-road community decides to get militant, then I will help. Till then you re just spinning your wheels sliding backwards down a hill that we won't conquer with the present train of thought and tactics.

It is a sick joke that is being played on us. They "give" us a crumb for token victory every now to appease us, but the land grabbers end up taking the whole pie. Just look at how much has been taken. Why do we even have a Tellico forum? Tellico is gone too! The list grows every damn month.:mad3:

If writing letters and giving money to multiple pro off-road organizations will make you feel better, absolutely go ahead. I commend you. Until the very splintered pro-off road groups decide to BUILD one extremely strong organization to viciously fight using tactics such as used by the Sierra club, the NRA and other groups that have effective National and state lawyers and lobbyist, we will NEVER gain sufficient ground.

We need ONE very large, not multiple smaller national organizations that encompasses ALL of the ATV, 4 wheelers, mud runners, snowmobilers, motorcyclists, ect. Then we WILL have a true voice in Washington.


I agree to a point. However, being "in the Loop" on the Board of Directors
on one of those Splintered off road groups you mention you are mistaken thinking that we do not use the court system when necessary.

The ONE large organization you want already exists. The Blue Ribbon Coalition is that organization. They are a national organization that also will file lawsuits when needed. They can't do it all. We need smaller organizations to focus on local issues and work with the larger ones.

In the case of Johnson Valley and the 29 Palms Marine base expansion, this is a new kind of issue. Typically it's the enviros that want OHV areas closed and they use the courts to do it. They use the EPA and other laws to bring lawsuits aginst us. A lot of the time they are sucessful but sometimes we win. The Marine expansion starts with to U.S. Government. We may not be able to file a law suit in this case I don't know, but we have to do what we can and that means send in comments right now.

I know of at least two organization that are preparing well written comments for JV. The best things any of us can do is write our own comments and, in my opinion, support one or more organization the have very dedicated, knowledgable people preparing comments.

V. Preferred Alternative: Alternative
6 is selected in the DEIS as the
preferred alternative: it is the optimal
alternative considering operational
and environmental impact factors
together. Developed in response to
public comments it was designed to
preserve public access to important
off-road recreation areas during
periods when MEB training did not
require use of those lands. The
Alternative would allow for reopening to public recreation use approximately 40,000 acres of the
acquisition area for 10 months a year.


I copied and pasted this. Is this 40,000 acres the hammer trails? Would the Marines take it for 2 months a year? I have written a letter and got my post card today of the proposed action.

What is scarry is everyone is only talking about option #6. What if they don't use option#6..:(

V. Preferred Alternative: Alternative
6 is selected in the DEIS as the
preferred alternative: it is the optimal
alternative considering operational
and environmental impact factors
together. Developed in response to
public comments it was designed to
preserve public access to important
off-road recreation areas during
periods when MEB training did not
require use of those lands. The
Alternative would allow for reopening to public recreation use approximately 40,000 acres of the
acquisition area for 10 months a year.


I copied and pasted this. Is this 40,000 acres the hammer trails? Would the Marines take it for 2 months a year? I have written a letter and got my post card today of the proposed action.

The 40k acreage is the southern part of JV and includes the most of the Hammers and it would be closed to public access twice a year during the "Large Scale Exercise". Those times would be in the spring and fall for approximately one month each. It's important to note that only individual comments can be accepted as part of the EIS unless a formal petition is submitted. Every person who submits at least a decent comment will have it included in the Final EIS when it goes to congress for decision.

What is scarry is everyone is only talking about option #6. What if they don't use option#6..:(

Alternative 6 is the preferred option as it does provide for protection of the Hammers and gives back some land for OHV use. As noted they develped this alternative after the initial comment period. Once the EIS is published it will go up to congress for the final decision on which of the alternatives will be enacted. Every comment counts and writing to your congressman will help too.

Mike

I encourage all to write another letter especially being they currently have a place on their site asking for such... "Submit Public Comment On Draft EIS"

Here's a direct link: https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/

Getter done!

done

Damn! They are going full force now! I was in the Marines from '97-'01 and I just got a postcard from Naval Facilities Engineering Command Southwest concerning this issue and asking me to put in my input. I don't think they sent it thinking that I am going to comment against it, but damn, if they are sending this out to all Marines now serving and those who have served, that sucks.

It says to visit: www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las to learn more and submit comments online. Lets blow that sucker up with comments!!!!:mad3:

FYI, it doesn't say anything on the card about what they will be taking away, it just makes it sound like "Hey, help us get some more training area, please come comment." :mad3:

edit: It looks like once you go to their site and then click to "make a comment" then it goes to the link that you guys have alread posted.

...I just got a postcard from Naval Facilities Engineering Command Southwest concerning this issue and asking me to put in my input.

Wife and I got ours (1 ea) today as well.

Everyone that has commented will more than likely get one.



k.

letter sent.

The 40k acreage is the southern part of JV and includes the most of the Hammers and it would be closed to public access twice a year during the "Large Scale Exercise". Those times would be in the spring and fall for approximately one month each. It's important to note that only individual comments can be accepted as part of the EIS unless a formal petition is submitted. Every person who submits at least a decent comment will have it included in the Final EIS when it goes to congress for decision.



Alternative 6 is the preferred option as it does provide for protection of the Hammers and gives back some land for OHV use. As noted they develped this alternative after the initial comment period. Once the EIS is published it will go up to congress for the final decision on which of the alternatives will be enacted. Every comment counts and writing to your congressman will help too.

Mike

While 6 is preferred, it only shares part of the hammers. Alot will be gone for our use.

Cal4 told me that there will be several letter writing workshops held in So Cal for this.

I am working on holding one of my own in Sacramento...

Cal4 told me that there will be several letter writing workshops held in So Cal for this.

I am working on holding one of my own in Sacramento...

If you can, forward / post the info to the rest of us throughout the US.

I received a post card yesterday and sent them my thoughts on this crappy idea. :mad3:
I'm working on 2 Ultra4 cars dammit I want the King of the Hammers to be around for a long time.

As recreation enthusiasts and member of Friends of Johnson Valley, we are writing to express our dismay and deep concern over the proposed acquisition of more than 180,000 BLM acres of prime recreational trails in Johnson Valley for expanded military uses.
My wife and I in the past year alone have spent more than $80,000 in a off-road vehicle and its equipment. We have finally found a recreation hobby we can enjoy together along with the comraderie of similar vehicle owners and now along with thousands of other off-road hobbyists discover we may be effectively shut out from one of the most important and highly prized OHV trails on the West Coast.
Transfer of the public lands would be devastating to the recreating public. It would also cause a regional impact on businesses catering to our hobby through sale of vehicles, parts, repairs, fuel, towing, food, camping supplies, restaurants and motels just to name a few.
In today's economic climate many of these businesses need all the help they can get to survive, and the resulting loss of sales and other taxes desparately needed by the state and local governments to provide safety and other services seriously impacts the general public.
Of all the proposals being considered for the expanded military uses, we wholeheartily agree with the national, state and local OHV organizations, as well as the City Councils of Yucca Valley and Apple Valley, that any expansion for military uses should be to the East and thereby sparing Johnson Valley.
We urge that you and any others who will make the ultimate decision in this matter give appropriate weight to the following concerns, in addition to those expressed above:
•
Johnson Valley hosts an estimated 800,000-1 million recreation visitors annually. Where will these users relocate?;
•
Won't these relocated off-roaders be forced into using areas already overly impacted by others, and eventually encroach onto private lands and restricted areas?:
•
What guarantee would be put in place to ensure that lands taken for what could be short-term military use be cleaned up and returned to public access and use?

Thank you for your consideration of these vital concerns to us in regard to the proposed expansion into Johnson Valley.
We are also sending copies of this letter to our Federal, State and local elected officials so they will have the benefit of our concerns.
Sincerely,

The postcard...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/thedirtybirds/1o.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/thedirtybirds/11o.jpg

What about the turtles we have to watch out for when we are wheeling out there? I guess its different if they get blow to hell or ran over by a tank?

Has anyone come up with a list of good ideas to keep hitting them with? We need to present a unified front and keep proposing the ideas that we can come up with.
Like: Want to train like you wage war, travel to the training area. You have to deploy to the war location, deploy to the trianing location.
Anything we can get together on and repeat to them....

Anyone?

Alternative 6 is the preferred option as it does provide for protection of the Hammers and gives back some land for OHV use. As noted they develped this alternative after the initial comment period. Once the EIS is published it will go up to congress for the final decision on which of the alternatives will be enacted. Every comment counts and writing to your congressman will help too.

Mike

Alternative 6 is not our preferred alternative. We still like the no change alternative and the go east alternatives. :)

Has anyone come up with a list of good ideas to keep hitting them with? We need to present a unified front and keep proposing the ideas that we can come up with.
Like: Want to train like you wage war, travel to the training area. You have to deploy to the war location, deploy to the trianing location.
Anything we can get together on and repeat to them....

Anyone?

CORVA Comments Workshop(s) are in the planning stages. Initial plans are for at least 2 in the South and 1 in the North. The tentative dates are for the first week in April for the South. That will give us 3 weeks before the deadline for the DEIS comment period.

These workshops will include ALL users of Johnson Valley OHV not just 4 wheelers - Access for All!! CORVA should keep everybody posted as details and dates become available.

Don't stop what you are doing now though, you can always write another letter after the information from the workshops gets back to this board.

Thanks!

Cal 4 Wheel

Letter sent, keep'm coming.

I posted my last letter in Jan 2009, the one I posted here in this thread. I think after hearing from all of us in the first comment period the Marines gave us Alternative 6..... WE DON'T WANT THAT. Once the camel has his head in the tent it will be destroyed. We need to modify our letter to total opposition of alternative 6 and WE THE PEOPLE comment in a way to have them go east. I'm working on a new letter.

My understanding of the process is that they want us to read the Draft EIS and then make direct comments on that, right? From what I've read, I see heaps of B.S. in there. I'm making a page by page list of all the stuff that just plain doesn't make sense. I'm going to send them a ton of questions I want them to answer. There's a lot of pertnent information that's missing. I think comments should tell them exactly (page by page) where and why their EIS asumptions are full of shit, data is bogus, analysis is flawed, and conclusions are incorrect. For example, going east would be fine if they'd just get rid of the wilderness there.

Received my post card, but like a tard i did not send another letter ( failed to read the card until today )... To make up for it ill have to donate some $.. who should it go to?

Received my post card, but like a tard i did not send another letter ( failed to read the card until today )... To make up for it ill have to donate some $.. who should it go to?

You still have time to send a letter, the comment period closes May 26. There are also 3 meetings in April where comments can be submitted.

If you're looking for a place to send some money, Cal 4 Wheel has opened up a legal fund for Johnson Valley. Send to:

Jack Edwards Memorial Legal Fund
Designate: JOHNSON VALLEY
c/o CA4WDC
8120 36th. Ave.
Sacramento, CA 95824

When it the date they will make a decision and probably close down the area? I want to make at least one trip before then?

I can think of a bunch of areas they could use to train along the southern border and act as a wall to the illegals.

My understanding of the process is that they want us to read the Draft EIS and then make direct comments on that, right?

Right on target Typsy. While many people have put their heads together for the alternatives presented, they still understand that drawing on the collective mind of the public will present more and possibly better ideas. That is what the NEPA process is all about, the public has a right to know the intentions of its government and drawing on the combined mental power of the public will yield better results. While Alternative 6 is not the preferred alternative of the off-road community it was brought about by the public comments from the scoping period in 2009. Educated, well thought out comments on the Draft EIS may yeild more alternatives or lead to a more desirable decision in the end.

When it the date they will make a decision and probably close down the area? I want to make at least one trip before then?


The Record of Decision from the Secretary of the Navy will not be published until April 2012. From there it goes to Congress and the President for final decision and there is no timeline for that.


Mike

We need to get the word out and have a Pirate campaign again. According to the meeting this weekend, the committee overseeing this has only received 90 letters. I find this hard to believe since my family as sent 4.

Letter sent,got a post card today.

Has anyone come up with a list of good ideas to keep hitting them with? We need to present a unified front and keep proposing the ideas that we can come up with.
Like: Want to train like you wage war, travel to the training area. You have to deploy to the war location, deploy to the trianing location.
Anything we can get together on and repeat to them....

Anyone?

Funny you should ask....

Below is the results of a facilitated workshop attended by CA OHV organization leaders that identified issues during the scoping period. If you want to comment, look at this list of issues and check to see if your favorite issue has been addressed in the DRAFT EIS.



Johnson Valley Scoping Comment Categories
Access for Activities
Processes
Water Quality
Ground Movement
Air Quality
Fire Impacts
DEIS Reclamation Plan
Displacement Impacts
Water Supply
Sound
Soil Impacts
Public Services and Infrastructure
Visual Impacts
FAA Compliance
Hazards (Ordinance)
Alternatives
Examine impacts of action on existing land use plans
Biology Impacts
Purpose and Need
Examine Safety Issues of new boundary
Cumulative loss to OHV
Impacts of Scientific Research
Quality of Life
Loss of outdoor experience
Traffic
Raise "Environment Justice" issue
Carbon Footprint
Renewable Energy Opportunity Costs
Road Damage
Economy
Traditions
Archeological and historical
Impacts on State-Local Jurisdictions

Access for Activities
Access to water sources for maintenance within the expansion area (controlled)

Controlled periodic access for occasional activities in expansion area (Like China Lake Petroglyph Tours, chukar hunts, rockhounding, occasional races or equestrian events)

An awareness of non-OHV users/stakeholders (scouts, rockets, film, aviators, rockhounds

Processes
EIS process compliance

Meeting format in future (i.e. no "Delphi Technique")

More of a BLM lead even though it is a military EIS

Reality of environmental impact

How will private land be compensated for?

I'll be at 2 of the meetings next week. Here's a few more questions:

- How is 29 Palms planning to deal with the liability risk at events? What will BLM's role be?

- What restrictions will be placed on people trying to hold events on this "dual use" land? BLM role will be?

- Illegal OHV use on private land will increase. What will 29 Palms and BLM do (if anything at all) to help curtail this activity?

- EIS says there planning "additional public outreach efforts, pamphlets, information and scheduling law enforcement." Why couldn't Congress create a fund of about $5-10 M/year to assist with recreation and economic development, outreach, education, OHV area land purchase in the desert?

- Why can't BLM sell off land they don't need or manage and then use the $s to buy other lands for OHV use?

- Why doesn't an alternative analyze the opening of National Park or wilderness land for Marine training? Isn't it true that Congress made them so Congress can take them away? That would open up lots of land east of the base for Marine training. General Patton used that ground for tank training back in WWII days. It was good enough for him. Marines would have to shut down Amboy Road for a few days, but I can live with that. Ask them to analyze opening Sheephole, Cadiz, Cleghorn and even more wilderness. Why can't the Marines use those?

- Why can't some wilderness be opened for OHVs? If they just have to train in Johnson Valley, get rid of the wilderness but then open it for wheeling. Open 3 acres of wilderness to wheelers for every acre lost in Johnson Valley. Theres already way too much wilderness. Hardly anyone goes there. There not accessible. Have you ever even seen anybody hiking, camping or riding horsies in them?

- Where can current OHV areas be expanded? There might be a way to expand Stoddard, Rasor and others. 29 Palms and BLM need to study this.

- Where can new OHV territory be created? A 3:1 ratio was suggested at BLM advisory committee meeting (3 new acres opened, for every acre closed). The law requires they look at mitigation. Where does the EIS talk about expanding or creating new areas for riding?

- If 150000 acres lost in Johnson Valley, they should suggest congressional designation for 450000 acres OHV area. Expand Stoddard to south. Expand Razor to west. Designate Dumont Dunes, Dove Springs, Jawbone Canyon, Keysville, Spangler Hills, El Mirage, Glamis Imperial Dunes etc. What other areas can be designated? I'm sending them a million acres to consider nationwide. Lawmakers can pick 450000 acres from that.

- Why can’t the Marines leave the whole area in the south for us wheelers? Run that 3rd (southern) brigade from the base through the channel just south of Emerson Lake (north of Hartwell Hills, Los Padre and Blue Ribbon mines). They'd still get lots of training time. All 3 brigades would still be able to converge together at red map dot ("MEB objective") during their couple training exercises. This new alternative would only require Marines to expand into about 60000 acres of Johnson Valley. It would leave over 120,000 acres for us to continuing riding in. Was this ever considered?

Last Saturday I went to Poison Spyder's Open House and talked a bit with the folks from CORVA that were there. They had a really good point about making comments. They said in some of the clinics they talked about when you write your comment, sit down and write it from the heart. Once you’re done don't submit it yet, go back and look at the Draft EIS and then write out the rest of your comment analytically with specific reference to the draft. That way in the end we have extremely valuable input on this document and the process as a whole.

If not already mentioned we will have plenty of tables set up for people to make comments at the public meetings. In addition to being able to take written comments there will be a court stenographer there to take comments down for anyone who does not want to write it out themselves. In line with my above comments, if you want to type out your comments and bring them to the meetings we can accept them that way also. The better the input we have on this process the more influence we'll have overall.

Mike

I agree with all the significant impacts that are mentioned related to land use, recreation, airspace, air quality, biology.

BUT I just can't understand why you guys say the economics impacts are "less than significant." The expansion takes over 100 private properties, closes mines, reduces sales & tax revenue, results in some business going under. Lucerne Valley could become a ghost town if they lose $1.5 million or
-24.7% compared to baseline due to reduced recreational and film industry spending.

Why is it "significant" in the EIS to take 154-714 desert tortoises but "less than signficant" to take that many private properties, mines, businesses? People are endangered species too. Taking one private property or closing one business is defintely significant in my book. :confused:

Letter sent!

I agree with all the significant impacts that are mentioned related to land use, recreation, airspace, air quality, biology.

BUT I just can't understand why you guys say the economics impacts are "less than significant." The expansion takes over 100 private properties, closes mines, reduces sales & tax revenue, results in some business going under. Lucerne Valley could become a ghost town if they lose $1.5 million or
-24.7% compared to baseline due to reduced recreational and film industry spending.

Why is it "significant" in the EIS to take 154-714 desert tortoises but "less than signficant" to take that many private properties, mines, businesses? People are endangered species too. Taking one private property or closing one business is defintely significant in my book. :confused:

I understand, and that is a great question for the folks who did the study. From any one of the business owners or families impacted it is a significant impact but the way they explained it to me, the economic impact on the Yucca Valley/High Desert area would be "less than significant". Not that I agree with it but that's the "Cliff Notes" version.

Mike

From any one of the business owners or families impacted it is a significant impact but the way they explained it to me, the economic impact on the Yucca Valley/High Desert area would be "less than significant".

:confused: I am still confused.

So Marine Corps beleives that reducing the sales and tax income in the high desert region by 25% would not be significant?

How much is it going to cost to buy 100+ private properties?

How much is it going to cost to buy out the miners?

Why wouldn't the noise from the tanks, bombs, aircraft, artillery be significant?

Why wasn't the repeal of wilderness studied as an alternative?

Why wasn't just north half of Johnson Valley studied as an alternative?

Can the Marines accomplish all their training objectives north of Emerson Lake?

How did you guys come up with just 300,000 visitors in Johnson Valley?

How do the airlines feel about more restricted airspace over the desert?

What do these signficant impacts mean?: "Minimal to moderate impacts on Victor airway and moderate to significant impacts on jet route IFR air traffic within or adjacent to new and modified SUA.  Minimal to moderates impacts on routes used by general aviation VFR aircraft.  Minimal to moderate impacts on public airports and instrument approach procedures within close proximity to SUA.  Minimal to moderate impacts on private airfields within, beneath, or bordering SUA."

Where's the OHV areas that can be expanded or created, to make up for acreage loss in Johnson Valley?

Why can't BLM sell some surplus land and then use the income to buy land for wheeling?

Can the Marines ask Congress create a $10-20M/year appropriation for OHV land purchase, management of dual-use area, education and outreach programs to prevent illegal riding etc?

All of those are perfect questions! I hope that all of our Subject Matter Experts (SME's) are prepared for you Typsy! Great job on doing your homework, that's exactly what we need to make a better EIS and get the right answers to all of those questions that concern all of us. I don't have the answers to all of that but I'll be at all the meetings starting tonight in the Alternatives section and we have "SME's" for all the areas to gather input from the public.

Mike

Check out this site for more info, and spam it on your social networks, websites, etc. From another desert racing forum...

http://www.savejv.org

letter sent...

I learned of a cool website that creates "Word Clouds" from text. The size of the words indicates how often they are used. This is the top 150 words from all 40 pages of CHAPTER 1. PURPOSE OF AND NEED FOR ACTION. I find it very interesting that it looks like a bomb.

http://www.wordle.net/

That's a pretty cool graphic. It tells whats important to Marines...like the word "TRAINING" and "Operations". But look how small the word "public" is. You barely see that word in their mix. Wouldnt you think they should be paying more attention to what we've been saying for years?

This month we need to turn up the heat with phone calls, emails, petititons, letters to editor, blogs, signs, comment letters, radio spots, rallies, newspaper advertising etc. We only have 3 weeks left to officially weigh in. Then they close the door and go their merry way. We should host some public meetings of our own and let people speak out about their concerns. Make headlines in a civil way.

I wonder how the top words from their CHAPTER 4 (impacts) would look. That might tell a more real story of this project with all the problem areas shown. I would expect "OHV" and "Recreation" to be in real big print but lots of other stuff too.