You may be familiar with the 427ci over head cam engine that Ford built to go in the 429 Mustang. Anyone use it in an off-road application?
I can't seem to find a whole lot of information on the net. Like block bolt pattern, weight, hp/tq figures... Anyone know a good site?

You must have a hell of a lot bigger bank account than I do. Any idea the price on one of those motors, provided that you can actually find one.....:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Priest
You must have a hell of a lot bigger bank account than I do. Any idea the price on one of those motors, provided that you can actually find one.....:rolleyes:


No kidding.:eek: :eek: :eek: Those things are rarer than hens
teeth and I hope you've won the lotto recently cause you'll need
the money to buy one.

Originally posted by CaptainFleXJ151
You may be familiar with the 427ci over head cam engine that Ford built to go in the 429 Mustang. Anyone use it in an off-road application?
I can't seem to find a whole lot of information on the net. Like block bolt pattern, weight, hp/tq figures... Anyone know a good site?

It uses an "FE" type bolt pattern. If you are looking for this type of info, then you probable don't have one. And you should plan to spend 10-20k to get one. Parts are very expensive. Drop 10k into any BBC or BBF(460) and you will have more power than the "cammer". Much more reliable. Although if I had one I would run it.

Originally posted by CaptainFleXJ151
You may be familiar with the 427ci over head cam engine that Ford built to go in the 429 Mustang. Anyone use it in an off-road application?
I can't seem to find a whole lot of information on the net. Like block bolt pattern, weight, hp/tq figures... Anyone know a good site?

Too give you a little more info. (this could be bunk, I'm working off of memory which isn't always the most reliable).

In the late sixties ford came out with this motor and decided to put it into a Mustang. They tagged it a Mustang GT-S. It was built for the factory NHRA AF/X drag class. In order to race them they had to produce 10 cars so that they could call it a "factory car". It is my understanding that they only produced 10 of these cars. I believe that they made something like a couple hundred of these engines and they were sold off to various racers and what not. Dealers would build kick ass cars with them for the sole purpose of racing.

I don't know about weight but if they follow the ford BB standard I'm sure they are quite heavy. The problem was the width of the motor. They had to heavily modify the mustang in order to get the motor to fit. Each head is something like 15" wide.

If I remember correctly the hp was something like 617hp at 8500RPM :eek:

Finally, I believe that the timing chain is close to something like 12' long. :eek:

I know of a guy that put one of these motors into a 32' hyboy roadster. He found the motor at a school auction. The motor had been donated to the school by FoMoCo back in the sixties and had never actually been in a vehicle (can you say major score). I'm of the understanding that one of these motors can sell for tens of thousands of dollars.

Let me know when you get it in your rig...I want to see it. :flipoff2:

Cool engine but as everybody has said rare and expensive. Also HUGE and probably real heavy.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/piranha4x/por/sohc.jpg

Originally posted by CaptainFleXJ151
You may be familiar with the 427ci over head cam engine that Ford built to go in the 429 Mustang. Anyone use it in an off-road application?
I can't seem to find a whole lot of information on the net. Like block bolt pattern, weight, hp/tq figures... Anyone know a good site?


http://www.thecarsource.com/fords/engines/427engine.html

http://www.me.mtu.edu/~prater/cammer.html

they are HUGE motors, retail for $15000 (junk, not rebuildable) to $30000 in rebuilt ready to run.

the 4 barrel motor makes 515 lbs./ft. @ 3,800 RPM and 616 BHP @ 7,000 RPM out of the box, and the 8 barrel makes 575 lbs./ft. @ 4,200 RPM and 657 BHP @ 7,500 RPM also as is, out of the box.

fuel requirement: 110 octane leaded
compression ratio: 12.01:1
camshaft: solid lifter, flat tappet
intake valves: 2.265"
exhaust valves: 1.968"
weight: 680 lbs.
Offered in 1964 in a Galazie 500. 65-69 through fords racing parts program. After late 1969 those engines were available from Holman-Moody.

One more note. Don't think you will run any pump gas in this thing. Unless you are pumping out of a 55 gal drum that says "TRICK". These things had 'PINGING" probs when gas was good.

here's a pic of one to drool over, IIRC they are around 32" across the valve covers...

Originally posted by CrazyHorse
here's a pic of one to drool over, IIRC they are around 32" across the valve covers...


Is that the same motor? Or has it been modified? I ask because it has a timing belt. I thought they used a chain. Hell, I didn't think anyone was using timing belts in the sixties.

I'm probably just ignorant once again....damn that gets old. :flipoff2:

Actually the "429" mustangs were the boss 429s witha different engine than the above mentioned cammer. It copied the Crysler hemi in design with the wierd rocker arms, etc.

I think the 427 SOHC motor was made for nascar but got outlawed before it ever debuted. I think it actually uses a nearly production FE block with a different front cover, and other small diferences.

Here (http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/v8sohc427.html) is a bit of info on the 427 cammer...



Here (http://www.sd455.com/mustangeng.htm) is a pic of the boss 429 engine, which is 100's times more common and still runs $10k+ just for a decent core.

-brett

Originally posted by Priest



Is that the same motor? Or has it been modified? I ask because it has a timing belt. I thought they used a chain. Hell, I didn't think anyone was using timing belts in the sixties.

I'm probably just ignorant once again....damn that gets old. :flipoff2:

I also thought that they used chains. But wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

Wes

Just found this on another site....

: Without a doubt the most powerful engine ever made, the Ford 427 Cammer was developed with the intention of taking on Chrysler's Hemis. Ford gave the 427 block new heads with hemispherical combustion chambers. To cap that, they fitted overhead camshafts -- one per cylinder bank -- which gave the engine its name and allowed it to rev to an unheard of 7,500 rpm. With the regular single four barrel carb, the "cammer" put out 616 bhp, but with dual four-barrels, it produced a massive 657 bhp. With this kind of power, the "cammer" 427 was totally unsuitable for street use. These engines were not sold to the general public, but about 50 examples were built, mostly for professional drag racers. Because of the low production volumes, NASCAR refused to accept the engine as a regular production option, and thus Ford couldn't use the engine to combat the Hemi's. This sealed this engine's fate and Ford discontinued it after 1965.

Ratings: 1x4bbl: 616bhp @ 7500rpm. 2x4bbl: 657 bhp @ 7500rpm, 550 lb-ft.
Installation:
Total Production:

those belts are aftermarket. all older engines used chains

Just found this kick ass pic. Holman and Moody's shop, building AF/X "Cammer" mustangs.... sweet!

From the link cruiserbrett posted. Here is the factory chain drive.

Originally posted by Priest
Just found this kick ass pic. Holman and Moody's shop, building AF/X "Cammer" mustangs.... sweet!

Hey, that car looks kinda "Funny"!:D

Originally posted by Priest
Just found this kick ass pic. Holman and Moody's shop, building AF/X "Cammer" mustangs.... sweet!

they had to stretch them - interesting.

Originally posted by KYODER
One more note. Don't think you will run any pump gas in this thing. Unless you are pumping out of a 55 gal drum that says "TRICK". These things had 'PINGING" probs when gas was good.

if you know where the pumps are you can. about 10-12 years ago when i was racing, i stopped at a regular old gas station near a race track that had the good stuff. i seem to recall about 100 octane unleaded and 108 octane leaded. i think 108 will keep it happy at 12.0:1. it was about $4/gallon back then. it's not like you will run the thing on the street anyway, so you don't need to go get it everyday. i bet a small municipal airport will sell it to you as well.

Originally posted by surlynkid


they had to stretch them - interesting.


I don't know if the "had" to strech them. Probably were just able to because of the rules... slide the motor back, better weight transfer.

I think you got the 427 cammer and the boss 429 mixed up. If the 429 is what you are looking for, the Cobra Jet 429 is the little brother of the 460. Open a SVT catalog, and you can score a 600 cid version for a pretty reasonable price with aluminum Ford racing heads. Can you say 1000 H.P. on 91 0ctane and a single 4 bbl?

Originally posted by CrazyHorse

the 4 barrel motor makes 515 lbs./ft. @ 3,800 RPM and 616 BHP @ 7,000 RPM out of the box, and the 8 barrel makes 575 lbs./ft. @ 4,200 RPM and 657 BHP @ 7,500 RPM also as is, out of the box.


A comparison to the medium riser LeMans FE 427's (or the tunnel port drag race FE 427's) will reflect the cammer has a flatter torque curve than the hi-po pushrod versions (more low rpm torque). The port cross section in the heads is smaller, and straighter, than the pushrod versions (higher velocity with less restriction). The range of the fatter low rpm torque is somewhat subjective (when you are comparing ~4000 rpm plus torque peaks and 500 plus lb.ft. on tap).

A number of streetrods run 427 cammers (Jay Leno has a Cobra Replica with a SOHC 427) and they can be de-tuned for detonation free mild rpm street duty on quality pump gas (easier than de-tuning a Boss 429, other hi-po FE 427, or hi-po Supra Cobra Jet 429/460).

Usage for low rpm duty is questionable, why spend the $$$$$ when a quality pushrod 460 with modern design Edelbrock heads will make comparable sub-5500 rpm power (for much less than $10K). The SOHC heads & cams are only part of the cost; FE crossbolt blocks, forged cranks and LeMans rods are cubic dollars.

If you have the resources, a SOHC 427 would make a sweet powerplant for show piece.

Happy Trails!

I dont think i could bring myself to run that motor in anything but a show type car cause id prolly have a heart attack when/if it:nuke: Also i dont think it would make much of a motor for a wheeler.....its be great in a mud runner or a sled puller :smokin:

Wow thanks for all the info and links. I had no idea they were so expensive and tempermental.
So scratch that idea. I don't know about ya'll but people around here easily drop a $15k motor into their cars. But definately not a $30k motor. And I'm sure that sort of power could be had for far less dough and be more reliable on pump gas. I'll stick to the engines built today.

The Boss 429 engine looks real nice. Aluminum Hemi heads, forged crank, and a 6,100 rpm redline. Maybe that would be reving too high for off-road.

Originally posted by zags
I think you got the 427 cammer and the Boss 429 mixed up. If the 429 is what you are looking for, it is the little brother of the 460. Open a SVT catalog, and you can score a 600 cid version for a pretty reasonable price with aluminum Ford racing heads. Can you say 1000 H.P. on 91 0ctane and a single 4 bbl?

i thought the boss 429 was a hemi head motor. how is that a little brother of a 460?

I was talking to my dad and he told me that this engine was copied from the SOHC BMW 2.0 engine in the 2002.
See how similar the valve covers are.
pic taken from 2002bmw.com
http://www.2002bmw.com/02engine/eng112.jpg

A friend of his bought the tooling from Ford when they stopped production. This guy took 428 cranks, machined them to fit, bored it out and made a 455 out of it. These were used as marine engines. Pete, my dad, thinks the guy passed away and doesn't know what happend to the tooling.

This engine apparently has a problem with the timing chain stretching over time. This would lead to engine failure. Much like the Mercedes V8's of that day. Obviously someone has fitted it with a belt drive which will work better.

Pete also tells me that the 429 CobraJet can make almost as much power as the cammer. Anyone use one of these for trail use?

Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens
(or the tunnel port drag race FE 427's)



Used to be a guy on my street, drag racer from way back, had a tunnel port in pieces in his shop. Very impressive! Massive intake ports.:eek: I think he had a pair of Cammer heads too. Lots of cool stuff. Wish I had taken some pics down there.

For sure a dream motor....

For a while in the 90s you could get an entire motor from a company called DOVE. I don't know if they are still around. I would LOVE to install one of these in a '67 GT500 widebody kit car from the chassis shop.....

The SOHC was built for nascar originally, then moved to drag racing when the rules changed....why do you think there are so many 7 liter motors! 426,427,427. Anyways, one of these motors rebuilt today with a gear drive cam system and weber style fuel injection, a shelby alum block, scat crank at about 510ci would make over a 1000hp I am sure if you get enough fuel to it. MMMMMMMMMMM road rocket....

Just thought I'd share... :D I'm REALLY not much of a ford guy, but my buddy's father was REALLY into drag boat racing in the 80's... At this point, I'd say he hasn't taken either of the boats that still remain out in the last 5 + years. Long story short, both of the boats have built 427 SOHC's and there's another 5 (yes I said 5) lined up on engine stands accross the far wall of the garage. ALL of these are 10-71 blown nitromethane motors... :eek: Polished everything, fabbed manifolds, mechanically injected, etc, etc... Juuuuuuuuust sitting there. :emb4: In passing (he isn't a very social guy) I'd asked about what kind of horsepower figures the engines were... He said the runt of the litter was 1100 hp... Hmmmmm.

Originally posted by surlynkid


i thought the boss 429 was a hemi head motor. how is that a little brother of a 460?
Yes, you are right. I saw my mistake last night when I posted it, but I couldnt get it to edit for some reason. I meant the 429 cobra jet.

Originally posted by zags

Yes, you are right. I saw my mistake last night when I posted it, but I couldnt get it to edit for some reason. I meant the 429 cobra jet.

The Boss 429 was the "Semi-Hemi"...

if anyone is interested, there is a company who began manufacture on an exact reproduction of the fod 27 sohc FE block and heads in steel and aluminum versions.

an online search should come up with the company's name. i lost the link i had...

the blocks are reasonably priced as far as FE blocks go...

oh, and mustang ill. ran a 6 pg article on the factory A/FX musties a few yrs back.. interviewed holman /moody etc. they built the car around the engine.! and the nose may be longer, but take a look at the rear wheel placement in the quarter panel. basically, the whole drivetrain is pushed backwards in the bdyfor better weight dist.....

pat

ps. the belt drive sohc was sold on ebay last year. i think it went for 15K...
and the belt drive kit is no longer available.

Originally posted by crashinaz
Just thought I'd share... :D I'm REALLY not much of a ford guy, but my buddy's father was REALLY into drag boat racing in the 80's... At this point, I'd say he hasn't taken either of the boats that still remain out in the last 5 + years. Long story short, both of the boats have built 427 SOHC's and there's another 5 (yes I said 5) lined up on engine stands accross the far wall of the garage. ALL of these are 10-71 blown nitromethane motors... :eek: Polished everything, fabbed manifolds, mechanically injected, etc, etc... Juuuuuuuuust sitting there. :emb4: In passing (he isn't a very social guy) I'd asked about what kind of horsepower figures the engines were... He said the runt of the litter was 1100 hp... Hmmmmm.

I'll take a guess and say your buddys dad is fat-ass wealthy! Or is he just saving all those SOHC's for your bud's inheritance?:D

WHAT? Did you say he had seven built SOHC 427's in his shop? Poor sod, should have at least a dozen! If this isn't a clear indication of why the we need to give the rich people in this country another tax cut, I don't know what is. Oh gee, did I get off topic?:flipoff2: