Long time lurker here, finally registered.

I am a Maintenance Mechanic in the great state of Iowa. Have had a thing for mercedes ever since I picked up an '85 300D Turbo that took a beating and kept on going far longer than anyone thought it could. Cancer finally took that car, although I kept the engine. I have been wholly impressed by most things mercedes has made, and have wanted a unimog ever since I saw Mulder wreck one in an X-files episode years ago.

I was recently contacted after placing a want ad about one sitting near my parents place up in MN, I talked to the guy for about an hour about mog history, his mog, why I want one and what I'd love to do if I got one.

What I know is: His is a '62 S404, original gas motor, don't know miles but I'm guessing quite a few. Was a radio truck, radio box is long gone, has a flatbed now, he's including the frame section that the radio box was on if I wanted to mount the flatbed to it for better frame flex. Has a spare and an extra tire, some misc additional small parts to go with - wasn't sure of exact inventory. Cab corners rusted out, he thinks fuel pump is bad and/or gas varnished because it won't stay running unless somethings being sprayed in the intake.

I'm told original paint, ragtop will need repair. Hasn't been driven on the street for 5 years or more. Has proper MN title and collector plates. Owner is retired and clearing out his stables to keep only the projects he anticipates being able to finish. Owner sounds like he quit driving it after losing a bunch of his places where he could actually stretch its legs.

So its a bit of a clunker, needs some definite love which I'm more than happy to give, and have a lot of the tools to accomplish.

Its hard to determine a price on one of these buggers in the midwest because they are so rare, as well most of the places like mog-exchange won't let you look up sales history and don't disclose the actual sale price (versus the asking price). And most run and drive....

I'm curious what you would offer for a mog in said condition, I know that price is also going to need to reflect hassle to get it from where its parked onto a trailer (I can use my dads 1-ton chevy and 20' gooseneck to haul it to my parents place to do some work before I attempt to drive it south to where I live)

That said I have a dream of getting this mog, cleaning it up/fixing the rust, convert it to diesel and use it as the bitchinest mobile welding/repair truck ever conceived by man.

I have a few questions/concerns about it if I do get it which I'm hoping can be answered here

- Any suggestions for keeping the mog safe from casual thieves? I do not have a garage big enough to house this bad boy so it will have to sit outside. I do not want to find my toy upside down in some mud hole by the des moines river. From pics I've seen it looks like getting behind the dash and hotwiring would not be difficult.
- Since this was a radio truck, I'm assuming 24v electrical system (didn't think to ask when i had the owner on the phone). Anything special I should know about converting it to 12V (I'm assuming I will when I swap out the gas motor for diesel)
- What do those of you who have actual mogs do for auto insurance? I realize that when this is actually a welding truck (probably a year or more away) I will have to have some sort of business liability insurance on the truck to keep the DOT from sucking my bank account dry, until then I would like to have it insured more or less like I have my '94 Toy pickup DD insured now. Currently I have USAA.
- Am I better off buying a replacement ragtop from a place like expedition imports or having one made by a local place that does canvas covers for boats, trailers, etc.?
Edit: a couple more
- I hear that these things are LOUD to drive. I realize that some of that is bound to be tires, but anybody try to combat cab interior noise with dynamat or any other strategies? It would be nice to be able to carry on a conversation or answer the phone if possible
- When did they start putting "road gears" in unimogs? Any idea of what the axle ratio in a stock 62 S404 is versus what the road gear ratio is? Does anybody sell replacement ring/pinion sets?
- I'm told it doesn't have power brakes, and that braking is a bit sketchy at speed (this from the current owner) anybody swap masters with something to get power brakes and better stopping ability?

Thanks for any advice you can give

$2500 - $4500 is the range I would offer. Proper functioning brakes work great, expect to do a complete brake overhaul.

With a 404 you have NO other gearing options without major money/custom mods.

If you need security, remove the battery dis-connect key when you park it, that should take care of most people.

Do your research before planning the 24-12 conversion. Most within the mog community would argue against this change, myself included. That being said, a good portion of the argument goes out the window if you are doing an engine swap as well.

Insurance is a regional thing, and not usually an issue.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Scott

(Edit: Scott beat me to the punch while I was making a snack. :P)

Hey,

If you love Mercedes', you should love a Unimog. You can tell they were engineered by the same people. I'll try to make this short and sweet (I want to go to bed!)

1.) As far as price, if you could get it for under $5K you would be doing well. I've seen similar trucks sell in the $3500-$5500 range.

2.) There is a battery master switch under the drivers seat, it has a "key" you can remove. I was never worried about a theft of the truck when I took it with me. IMO you'd have to be A.) Knowledgeable about Unimogs and B.) Stupid as hell to steal one. A rare combination.

3.) Just make sure you want to go the 12V route, its a total makeover. Starter/Alternator/Horns/Lights/Switches/Etc.

4.) I go through Travelers, they have a classic division. They weren't happy with insuring it though, but they had already told me they would insure my (in their mind) "Classic Mercedes" before they came and looked at it, haha.

5.) I don't have direct experience, but if I had to GUESS, you might be better off buying a new top.

6.) Short of some serious 'war on sound', there isn't much you can do to be able to talk on the phone or talk without yelling. In order to do so you'd need to use a lot of sound insulation on the whole cab. Noise comes equally from the gearbox/engine/tires. I gave up on trying to make mine quiet. Too many factors for me being it spends a lot of time in the swamp. Things like dynamat and carpet etc don't like water.

7.) 416 (I'm not sure if it was offered on 406's, I know it wasn't "recommended" due to their short wheelbase) series Unimogs were the first to get Fast Axles. There are unfortunately no options for regearing 404 axles, your best bet to combat high cruising RPM is taller tires. However, keep in mind that no 404's like cruising at highway speeds for prolonged times (heat can be in issue, especially in transmissions).

8.) I never had any issues with brakes on either of my 404's. A properly maintained/adjusted system has PLENTY of stopping power. Either of my trucks will lock up the tires at any speed. You just have to push the pedal harder than in an assisted system. If for whatever reason you don't find the stock brakes sufficient, there are some options, though costly.

Hope this helps. :)

Sounds like you might have a good opportunity there.

Low-ball! You can always go up. Try and buy it based on the value of the axles. I would offer 2500$ and see how it goes.

Don't plan to buy it, fix it and then take it home. This is going to be a project, know that going in.

Parts availability is actually pretty good. Scott at EI and Jim at Eurotech can probably get you whatever you need.

The carb likely needs to be cleaned and/or rebuilt. Check this by feeding fuel from a small gas can by siphon to the carb inlet. Also check pump function by loosening the fuel fitting at the carb and operating the priming lever. One other fuel system thing to check is that the tank selector switch is set to ON or RESERVE.

The battery shutoff key and the fuel tank selector are both pretty effective theft deterrents but ultimately there is no replacement for insurance. I have my 404 covered for 18,000 of "hot rod insurance" or "agreed replacement value" if/when it is stolen I will buy/build a 416.

As to the convertible top. What color are you going to paint you mog? If it isn't going to be olive drab I would plan on having one made, or build a hard top.

The cumulative axle (R&P * Portal) ratio of a 404 is 7.56.

The diesel conversion will lower your top speed.

The OE 404 brakes are surprisingly effective but... They are single circuit. Having had this system fail (while driving in traffic) I will tell you I would do something different with the master cylinder.

I converted to Disc w/hydro assist and would never go back. Weps Offroad makes a couple kit options for this and Andy is a great guy to work with if you go this route. My conversion cost about 2K all added up.

24v to 12v conversion only serves to limit your options. Get a battery equalizer and you can run 12 volt accessories safely off the center tap as well as 24. When my generator died I replaced mine with a 24v 70A Delco marine alternator. It works great and weighs about a third of what the OE one did, plus you can ditch that huge regulator. Also remember that most winches rated duty cycle is based on their ability to dissipate heat so... running a 12V winch on 24 volts means everything moves faster so you don't need to run it as long (so it doesn't get as hot for the same work) and it pulls twice as hard/fast.

If the plan for this truck is to use it as a work vehicle keep in mind that everything you want to put into the bed has to be lifted almost 4 feet in the air.

Good luck.

Sounds like you might have a good opportunity there.

Low-ball! You can always go up. Try and buy it based on the value of the axles. I would offer 2500$ and see how it goes.

Thats what I planned, I have about $3000 saved that I could spend on the mog right now, but the owner outright admitted that cash talks....maybe I should get the bank to give it to me in all ones so it looks like a real fat stack of money :smokin:

Don't plan to buy it, fix it and then take it home. This is going to be a project, know that going in.

If he accepts my offer, I'll be satisfied with getting it to my parents house and giving it a once-over to find out what parts I need to order, so the next couple times I'm in MN I can get it to road-worthy condition so I can drive it back.

As to the convertible top. What color are you going to paint you mog? If it isn't going to be olive drab I would plan on having one made, or build a hard top.

Any pics of hard tops anybody wants to share with me? I hadn't considered that possibility but I'm pretty handy with a tig welder. I think a polished AL treadplate top would probably look pretty awesome.

The diesel conversion will lower your top speed.

Do the factory gas motors really rev higher than the governor on the OM617?

Next question, if the transmission is the weak point for highway cruising (not that I expect to take it on the interstate ever, but I would like to be able to keep up with traffic doing 55 eventually) do people ever swap 404 axles for 416 axles, or swap transmissions with something newer that has OD to get a bit faster top end? Obviously you need the power to do so, which is why I planned on the diesel conversion. Not that I plan to do any of this immediately I'm just curious.

The OE 404 brakes are surprisingly effective but... They are single circuit. Having had this system fail (while driving in traffic) I will tell you I would do something different with the master cylinder.

I converted to Disc w/hydro assist and would never go back. Weps Offroad makes a couple kit options for this and Andy is a great guy to work with if you go this route. My conversion cost about 2K all added up.

On your conversion did you outfit the original master with the hydro assist, or how did you go about this? Weps offroad's site looks cool but didn't see much beyond the disc conversion stuff.

Another thing I'm curious about, how does the 4x4 system on these work? I've done some searching but not turned up a real good answer. I understand there's no transfer case, and I'm under the impression that the transmission just has a second lever like a transfer case would, to shift between 2x4 and 4x4, but I'm curious if the 404 has a difflock, open diff or if it was an option? How does that work (cable, vacuum, electric?) Excuse my ignorance I just can't find a straight answer about the 404, and am used to much different chevy and toyota 4wd systems...

I'm going to go look at the truck Saturday afternoon, regardless of whether I get it or not I'm going to snap some pics and let everyone know how it turns out. Wish me luck...

Do the factory gas motors really rev higher than the governor on the OM617?


The redline on both engines is actually pretty similar, the OM617 is a very high revving diesel. Pretty much a negligible difference IMO.


Next question, if the transmission is the weak point for highway cruising (not that I expect to take it on the interstate ever, but I would like to be able to keep up with traffic doing 55 eventually) do people ever swap 404 axles for 416 axles, or swap transmissions with something newer that has OD to get a bit faster top end? Obviously you need the power to do so, which is why I planned on the diesel conversion. Not that I plan to do any of this immediately I'm just curious.


You'll be able to do 55 without a problem with a well tuned/maintained engine, but a trans temp gauge is a must. I never drove my truck for more than a few hours without taking a long break.

Given the design of a Unimog, swapping axles/transmissions is one HELL of an undertaking. I'd like to call it impossible, but as we know nothing is impossible. Most people just live with it. I have an external gear oil pump and cooler on my truck. Good clean synthetic fluid will also help.


Another thing I'm curious about, how does the 4x4 system on these work? I've done some searching but not turned up a real good answer. I understand there's no transfer case, and I'm under the impression that the transmission just has a second lever like a transfer case would, to shift between 2x4 and 4x4, but I'm curious if the 404 has a difflock, open diff or if it was an option? How does that work (cable, vacuum, electric?) Excuse my ignorance I just can't find a straight answer about the 404, and am used to much different chevy and toyota 4wd systems...


The "transfer case" is built into the transmission. Its all one unit. There is a lever which controls the 4wd and diff locks. One pull up gives you 4WD, the next gives you 4WD with diff locks front and rear. It is all mechanically operated via linkage, and can be engaged at any speed.

My brake system is a pump and hydroboost off of a 90ish chevy astro (pull-a-part) I bored out the restrictor on the pump but that is mostly for my power steering conversion. I modified the mog pedal cluster to accept the hydroboost and I am using a CNC Brake corp side by side 1&1/8 master driving 6 willwood dynalite calipers (two per wheel in front). The left rear caliper is tied to one front pair and the right is tied to the other front pair. The hardlines are copper-nickle and the softlined are braided stainless.

If I had it to do again I would not use the mog pedal cluster (it really doesn't have enough output travel for proper operation when hydraulic pressure is not available.)

Oh well.

Offered $2500, the mog was in real rough shape. Not that I have a problem with doing a lot of fixing on it, but I didn't think I could get it roadworthy for less than 2 grand, much less roadworthy and descent looking. Owner was waffling on actually selling it and kept trying to steer me into buy one of his old landcruisers (which I'd already stated that I didn't have any interest in whatsoever). I'll get pics up in a few hours

My brake system is a pump and hydroboost off of a 90ish chevy astro (pull-a-part) I bored out the restrictor on the pump but that is mostly for my power steering conversion. I modified the mog pedal cluster to accept the hydroboost and I am using a CNC Brake corp side by side 1&1/8 master driving 6 willwood dynalite calipers (two per wheel in front). The left rear caliper is tied to one front pair and the right is tied to the other front pair. The hardlines are copper-nickle and the softlined are braided stainless.

If I had it to do again I would not use the mog pedal cluster (it really doesn't have enough output travel for proper operation when hydraulic pressure is not available.)

Do you have a link to a build? I have my mog torn down right now and I am trying to figure out exactly how i want to do my steering. Thanks

Unfortunately I don't have a build thread. At the time I was doing all this stuff I didn't think much of it since it was stuff I had seen pictures of. I figured if I wasn't breaking new ground it didn't deserve documentation. I can try and snap a shot of the assembled pedal cluster/brake booster/master cylinders if you like.

Might take me a bit though, I have never actually posted any pictures and everyone else seems to have trouble the first time or so. Also I am not sure this thread is the appropriate place for it.