ok i have gathered together almost all i am going to need to extend out the wheelbase on my heep. exactly how far i will be streaching it will be figued out ones i mock everything up.
here is the vehicle and shat .82cj5 with scout 44's turned and all good i will be SOA using Cheorkee(XJ) springs with the shorter side facing front and back.
here is the question: I will be moving the rear axle back how ever many inches i like as there is nothing to get in the way(fuel cell in back) should i set up a 3/4 eliptical setup or should i just do a frame extention? mind you this is on my daily driver(only driver) I want to get more wheelbase and both of them will do it but the 3/4elipt will give some nice flex from what i have seen.
I need real world input on driving a 3/4 eliptical setup on the street (limiting strap them??) and if the handling quirks would be worth it on a daily driver.

no smart ass "get coil-overs and a 60" as i like my 44's and am working cheap here.

Thanks, Doc

new guy here so i am not gonna make too many comments yet...

however...no limiting strap for the 3/4...something i would do is just get another square ubolt...same as the ones you attached the spring with...and hook it on right after the eye....this would make it so the 3/4 is inactive....then when you hit a trail you just drop the 2 nuts off the ubolt and you are ready to go....make sence?

see ya...k

i was actualy thinking like a solid pinned link that allow upward travel but stop it at a neautral droop,pull the pin before the trail.
Also i was planning on running a rear sway bar to control body roll(ya right:D ) and make a futile attempt at giving me some highway manners

that would work too...screw body roll!

IMO you don't need 3/4 elliptic with springs that long and flexible. You are talking XJ rears right?

Long soft springs SOA with a buggy leaf seems like to defeat the purpose of using really long and soft springs SOA.

Bigdude yes XJ rears, i want to run a long spring with an offset pin and i got a good deal on a set of 4 new xj springs. I plan on moving the rear shackle point back one way or another and desiding between the benifits and faults of eather.

dam my spelling is on suck mode today:D

What are you hoping to get the wheelbase to?

What will the spring offset give you?

What is the difference in how much you still need?


You still need the fram to support the 3/4 elliptic spring. i don't think you want to just leave it hanging off the back of the vehicle. So either way you will have to extend the frame correct??? I'm just not partial to flex gimmicks :D

ok.. so can i hijack this thread a bit?

Whats the deal with useing the XJ springs. I asked before and people said they were too soft. Im right in the middle (re-loc'd the hangers last night) of extending the wheelbase on my 7. same scenario. 7 with scout 44's. I'm SOA on YJ leaves as of now. Are they softer than the YJ packs? cant i just add a few of the YJ leafs into the XJ pack to stiffin it up a bit? Thats what i had to do with the YJ packs. I think i have 8leafs in my YJ pack now and they work sweet.

any help please, as i have a set of XJ leaves at the house that i had decided not to use because of what i had geard before.


Nate.

Originally posted by bigdude
You still need the fram to support the 3/4 elliptic spring. i don't think you want to just leave it hanging off the back of the vehicle. So either way you will have to extend the frame correct??? I'm just not partial to flex gimmicks :D

Why would you need the frame to extend out any farther. You could chop it off right after the 3/4 elip mounts and it wouldn't lose any support. I would think the only thing you need to consider is bumpstops which wouldn't take much effort. Hell, I don't see why you couldn't attach the springs at the very end of the frame and have it hang completely out(addressing bumpstops again of course).

Dont know how long yet as i want to see how far i can push it till it causes problems or doesnt work out right.
spring offset is 51in spring 23 to eye 28 to eye
wouldnt nessisarily call 3/4 a gimmic as it has been around for quite a while(couple hundred years or so), and its not like i am gonna bolt some revolvers onto it while i am at it:flipoff2:
just want to know if this is worth it whith my setup or just fawk it and do a "normal" frame mounted shackle.
once again this all falls onto it being my DD

I'll agree with bigdude on this one... Just run the new leafs in a standard 1/2 elliptic setup... see how you like it, then decide if you need more..

If you're dead set on a 3/4, I like the pinning idea, and a limiting strap in the center can't hurt...

not set on any setup yet, has anyone ran a set of 3/4's on the street ? and i am not talking to and from the trail.
I commute 30mi or more a day in DC traffic! (in a lifted CJ this is fun :evil: )

Originally posted by broncorob
Why couldn't you attach the springs at the very end of the frame and have it hang completely out?Because that's stupid.

Think about it: Then all the weight of the vehicle would have to be supported by a one-leaf spring which, right now, smashes all the way flat against the frame as soon as it sees any weight.

Now you're going to support the entire weight of the vehicle with one main leaf? If you wouldn't run a YJ spring stripped down to just one main leaf at all 4 corners of your rig, why the fawk would you want to do it out back?

Oh, and can you imagine the wheel hop it would generate when that one-leaf-pack sticking out back there started cycling up and down on hill climbs? It'd be like running a 50 lb/in spring pack. :shaking:

Originally posted by TNToy
Because that's stupid.

Think about it: Then all the weight of the vehicle would have to be supported by a one-leaf spring which, right now, smashes all the way flat against the frame as soon as it sees any weight.

Now you're going to support the entire weight of the vehicle with one main leaf? If you wouldn't run a YJ spring stripped down to just one main leaf at all 4 corners of your rig, why the fawk would you want to do it out back?

Oh, and can you imagine the wheel hop it would generate when that one-leaf-pack sticking out back there started cycling up and down on hill climbs? It'd be like running a 50 lb/in spring pack. :shaking:

;)

TNToy i agree i would have it fully suported to prevent the single leaf from being negativly arched not because it would lay flat. there would still be an arch for the last 1/4 or else it wouldnt be a 3/4 spring:D it would just be some stupid wackyshacleflexocrap :flipoff2: also i was planning on using something a little stiffer than a single YJ spring.

AWWW SHIT!! Man I hate it when I do that. I'm sitting here reading and typing 3/4 elliptical and thinking quarter elliptic. Yes I will take my beating like a big boy:jester:

quick lesson for broncorob cause he is having a slow day:flipoff2:
(mind the cheasy photochopping i am not in a artistic mood)

i'm now sitting at 103" by using waggy springs and extending the frame.

http://bb.bc4x4.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=70986

http://bb.bc4x4.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=70987

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


Originally posted by usmcdoc14
quick lesson for broncorob cause he is having a slow day:flipoff2:
(mind the cheasy photochopping i am not in a artistic mood)

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
TNToy i agree i would have it fully suported to prevent the single leaf from being negativly arched not because it would lay flat. there would still be an arch for the last 1/4 or else it wouldnt be a 3/4 spring

I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that at ride-height (no flex) your 3/4 leaf (the extra leaf you add) will not be laying flat against the frame? That it will allow extra compression travel?

I have never seen a setup like that. All the 3/4 setups I have seen are meant to add droop, not compression.

I'm probably just confused, and that is not what you meant. :D

no you got it almost right:D a "true" 3/4 eliptical spring is a full load bearing spring. the last quarter of my spring will not have as strong as a rate as a "true" one but will not todaly lay flat on the frame. it will have a small amount of compression but could easily be designed to act as part of the "full" spring if you played with the spring rate(not something i feel like doing)
it will probly be like 1/2 to 1 in off the frame rail at the most but it still will flatten under compression

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
I commute 30mi or more a day in DC traffic! (in a lifted CJ this is fun :evil: ) [/B]

Couple other factors to think of...
Since it is your daily driver, how long can you be without a vehicle? Bolting on 4 leaf packs in standard fashion is probably going to be quicker.

What year is your CJ and is it registered as either historic or street rod? The reason I ask is.... your commute down 270 and 495 and MSP. That whole lift law thing with modifying the suspension. If you keep it looking like the stock set up, they probably won't notice. Or based on your screen name, is it registered in a different state?

And lastly, where do you wheel?

Look here to see what we did.;)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93065

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
not set on any setup yet, has anyone ran a set of 3/4's on the street ? and i am not talking to and from the trail.
I commute 30mi or more a day in DC traffic! (in a lifted CJ this is fun :evil: )


I've been running my Zuk with 3/4 on the road for about 5 years now with no problems at all. You will need to have the top 1/4 spring resting against the bottom of the frame as you will find the spring could bend back the other way causing all sorts of problems. I don't run a bumpstop for the top spring but with a heavier car/axle/tyre combo you may want to consider it as the clattering could get annoying.

It took me all of one hour to do the conversion. Cut the spring hanger off, grind it flat, cut the springs in half (get a good cutting disc) then bolt the spring to the frame with 2 u-bolts and weld the end of the spring to the frame. I appreciate with a heavier more powerful setup the spring will need to be secured with a better system but on the Zuk i haven't had anything shift in the 5 years and i've only had to tighte the ubolts once.

Tommy its a 82CJ5 and it is registered in CA.(but i think it will become my 67cj5 realy quick:evil: ) i will have to register it here (or wait) how the hell do you get around the friggen DMV here:mad: :mad: I havent gotten pulled over and i am sitting on 35's. down time for doing this is not a big deal. i have till march if they are going to move me and my "garage"(old factory) is able to get to by Metro.
oh wheeling umm lets see...Glamis,Jhonson Valley ...oh you ment here:flipoff2:
Not wheeling anywhere here yet i want to finish this thing and go play a little harder.

Mustard Dog, yup i hate you:flipoff2: that looks sweet !! Maybe if i get stuck back in Camp Pendleton i will tube the back but i still need a soft top here. hmmmmmm cj5 half cab with a tubed ass-end .... no.no i have to stick simple here and i have to have it done by march with the engine/tranny swap also.

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
. no.no i have to stick simple here and i have to have it done by march with the engine/tranny swap also.

We started that at the beginning of this month, working only on weekends. It can be done, get it:D