I'm doing an engine swap on an 88 Toy P/U and I'm wondering if the external pump I bought (MSD-2225) cares where it is placed? The thing has no instructions. I was thinking to place it somewhat toward the middle of the fuel line simply for convience. Does it matter if I leave the stock EFI (22RE) pump in the tank? I've heard it both ways, reasons would be helpfull. The MSD pump uses barbed fittings, and I need to go to hardline as that's what both ends use. Is there a better way than brazing hose barbs on to the cut hardline? Seems like if I just clamp it, it would slide off without a barb fitting to hold it in place.

Put the pump as close to the tankas possible, within reason. Electic pumps push mush better than they pull.

Also, a buddy of mine was all clever and took an hour to flip the pump over for extra clearance only to discover his external pump wouldn't run upside down. See if it matters (is there "top" to it?) before doing anthing like this... and make sure to tuck it up nive and high (duh).

I have an external MSD-EF60. It came with instructions, and they said mount it no farther than 2' from the tank (should be below as well). Most pumps are better at pushing than pulling.

The pump I have came with AN fittings so I can't help ya' there. But with hp efi I would do threaded fittings...But that's just me. A lot of folks I know don't and are just fine with barbed fittings.

--D

I've sold tons of fuel pumps over the past couple of years while working at AutoZone, every single one instruced that they be pacel as close to the pump as possible in a location equal or below the tank to prevent strain on the pump. Like said above they push much better than they pull. If your setup requires mount the pump closer to the engine, runa second helper pump. Some do this while using a baffle tank...or such designs....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ttabbal
[B]Does it matter if I leave the stock EFI (22RE) pump in the tank?


>I can't vouch for this personally, but have heard many people leaving the stock in-tank pumps and having no problems.




The MSD pump uses barbed fittings, and I need to go to hardline as that's what both ends use. Is there a better way than brazing hose barbs on to the cut hardline? Seems like if I just clamp it, it would slide off without a barb fitting to hold it in place.


> I would agree with RockRover on the threaded fittings thing when it comes to higher psi fuel lines! I *believe* barb fitting pumps are only used for carbureted applications with electric pumps aren't they? Did you get the right pump?

>I sure wouldn't feel comfortable with barbed fittings on a 40+ psi fuel line..............

FWIW I just put a motorcycle oil cooler in for my power steering, the low pressure side of the reservoir had barbed ends and the oil cooler had AN fittings. Aeroquip has adaptors that go from AN to barb, accepting a push-on hose. But I wouldn't use them if I were you:p

Close to the tank it is then. Thanks for the info guys.

What's wrong with barbed fittings at 40 psi? My sandblaster uses them at 100+ psi. I realize the consequences are a little more severe if I get a leak in a fuel line, but is the concern being realistic? I've seen a lot of people run EFI hose with barb fittings and clamps. The pump is designed for EFI systems and is rated at 45 psi at 43 GPH, 105psi max IIRC.

The current plan is to run mostly hardline with the barbs/hose just where the pump is. I'd like to get less than 2 feet of hose in the system. Mostly because it's harder to cut a hole in the hardline. :D

Oh, and there is no "up" on it, it's round.

Are you leavin the Yoda pump in the tank?

I wouldn't, from what you'r saying your swapping in a SBC or a 4,3 EFI I take it? Volume becomes a issue with the SBC setup and the small (8mm) supply line in the Yoda tank aint gonna get it on high demand, high load situations. I'd ditch the internal pump, replumb the tank for a side supply and a weighted flexable pick up. (7/16") Or replace the Yoda pickup with 3/8" solid, keep the tank higher than the pump and run 3/8" from the pump foward. Using barbed fitting is no biggie provided you use real FI clamps. (the banded ones that see on some fuel filters) Making the transistion from rubber to hard line is simple, rerun a new hard line from the pump foward, or from the filter foward is your running that right at the pump.

Get a flaring tool and ends and have at it. Just look at the volume issues, no fuel pump likes to be run dry. You can get some trick flex lines for the supply and return as well or run the OE GM stuff.


Joe


Joe

I had intended to leave the Yota pump in the tank, yes. The more I read, the less I think that's a good idea though. Damn, another thing to do. As it is, the gas in there is about 4 years old, so I need to drain it anyway. I guess changing the pickup isn't that much more work.

The motor is a Ford 4.0, I'm thinking it has similiar fuel supply requirements to the SBC 4.3L engines that are so popular around here.

By side supply I'm thinking you mean to drill a hole in the side of the tank and put a new pickup fitting in there. Are there parts designed for this, or do I make it up as I go along? Any tips for this sort of thing would be helpfull.

The only clamps I've seen on filters are the normal stainless screw clamps I put on most everything. A band with slots in it and a screw that tightens/loosens it. Is there a better clamp to look for?

Does anyone have milage numbers for thier swapped Toyotas? It might be worth it to swap the tank out as well if the stock one is too small for decent range.

Dude I run a high pressure system with barbed fittings and hose clamps and havent had any touble in 3 years youll be fine:D

Originally posted by pumpkinbronc
Dude I run a high pressure system with barbed fittings and hose clamps and havent had any touble in 3 years youll be fine:D


Cool, just making sure I don't go :nuke: ... And getting ideas and info for my fuel system. Always looking for cool ideas to steal. :D

If your running a high pressure EFI pump might want to consider a low volume feeder pump for it. I know a couple of guys whose high pressure pumps went out, after adding a feeder pump, no problems. Anybody else run into this?

When I put mine in just added a 2nd pump (low press, high vol) before the high press pump...just a simple carter...never have had any problems.

Oh also running barb fitting and no problems 3 years later...

http://asuaf.org/~schulze/misc2/fuel_pumps.jpg

Barbs are ok but, rubber gets torn, dry rots etc... I like hard line with true flex hose from the frame to the mill. (even solid mounted mills will workharden the lines due to harmonics) We set up a few "wandering" pickups in tanks for dirt track cars with cells, nothing more than submerisable fuel line with a weighted end, we cut out the foam in the corner that the pickup was in and added the line to the pickup. I gotta do this on my rigs fuel cell.

Doing this on a steel tank depends on how its made internally, the baffles and such. Ifs its a open can, just braze on a tube, add the weighted line to the inside and cut the thing so it wont bind in a corner. The band clamps are available from Wurth and Winzer, used mostly by german manufactors for fuel filter connections and such, Z clamps (the ones with the slots or rainsed teeth) tend to bust the internal nylon webbing used to reinforce the hose. Bad thing under the right conditions. Rather than the barbed fitting, look at the flared type, the ones that have the raised surface towards the end of the fitting.

You do know ford uses those weird quick connects right? why not transplant the entire line, they sell repair kits for these that could be used to shorten it and then run the OE filter with the shield.
from there, just run a short line to the pump using either a "repaired" OE line section or good clamps on HP fuel hose.

Just a fw thoughts,
Joe

Here's how I modified a Toy tank. Removed old tubes and brazed new ones on the top plate.

Jay

Originally posted by Rocktoyo

You do know ford uses those weird quick connects right? why not transplant the entire line, they sell repair kits for these that could be used to shorten it and then run the OE filter with the shield.
from there, just run a short line to the pump using either a "repaired" OE line section or good clamps on HP fuel hose.

Just a fw thoughts,
Joe


Yep, I discovered those quick connects the hard way. I have the lines from the donor, but they have all kinds of odd bends in them making it very difficult to get them where I want them since I don't have a C channel frame. I'm going to get a bender and see if I can straighten them out a little, if that doesn't work out I'll have to cut and repair them. I didn't know about the kits to repair them, I was just going to use flare nuts or compression fittings. How do those kits work?

Right now, it looks like I'm going to run the hardline down the driver side frame rail and over the rear crossmember to the tank. I'll have to find a spot for the new pump over by the tank. Since I have all the parts, I was just going to use the Ford filter w/quick connects.

Do any of you have sources for this stuff you recomend? I know Summit has hardline, fittings, and tools. Is there any reason to preffer aluminum or steel?

Thanks for the pic Jay, that's a good way to do the tank mod.

my brother just put in a holley projection system on a 360 and the directions with their pump say to mount it below the tank and as close as possible. Which agrees with what everyone is saying. Not sure on the barbed fittings. His used hardlines i think.

What is everyone using for pumps and what did it cost ya. I am looking to run an external inline for a stock 350 setup. Didn't want to pay $100 bucks for the holley pump though. Best i could do at the local parts store was another pump for $100. I think they system should be about 15-18psi, 45gph. Correct me if i am wrong.

Jim

Howell supplied Walbro in-line....about $100 to my door. Last one
worked for 10+ years fine. Still keep it as a spare.

Jay

Don't think it's been mentioned yet and you probably already know it but just in case, make sur you use injection line from the pump foward.

also I had two pumps on my jeep for a while. Like the ones in the pic obove. Did away with the low presure high flow and used a higher presure in line. Works like a champ now.

Good luck!

Bud

Have used steel line and rubber hose forward on pump on TBI systems with no problems.
Jay

I paid $145 for the Mallory 60EF (Summitt)...Has 6AN female in/out's, and an interesting 3/8ths NPT on the bottom. Basically it plumbs into the return line. I had no idea why it would be necessary, and I almost plugged it. Then I called Mallory...The service tech said use it! I asked why, and his explination was that it prevents' any chance of cavitation and allows for self-priming. I still wonder about it because my system is a closed-loop. Anyway, I bought the extra fittings and plumbed it .

He also recommended a 100 micron pre-filter....I used an Earl's 30 micron.

My system requires (stock Rover 3.9 efi) a minimum 35psi....And the recommended is 60.

--D

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Have used steel line and rubber hose forward on pump on TBI systems with no problems.
Jay

Yeah, I have about 36" of rubber line in front of the pump too! But it's injection line. Not regular fuel line. I'm running a 95 psi pump on a JFI injection. works fine but I wonder how long the regular line would last with that kind of presure. The fuel rail keeps it at 35/40 all the time. I also used barbed w/no clamps.

Bud

Yeah, good idea on the high pressure system....I'm running TBI...only 13-18 psi.
Jay

I added an intank high pressure pump (45 PSI) for my EFI. I cut the pickup line off, double flared it and connected the pump to it using EFI hose and clamps. I replaced all downstream hose with EFI grade hose. Only one pump and it works like a champ.

-Mark

Originally posted by Old Army
I added an intank high pressure pump (45 PSI) for my EFI. I cut the pickup line off, double flared it and connected the pump to it using EFI hose and clamps. I replaced all downstream hose with EFI grade hose. Only one pump and it works like a champ.

-Mark


So you just flared it and put the hose over the flare with a clamp? I was thinking of trying that, but I wanted to see if anyone had done it yet. My only concern was that the flare might not be strong enough for that use, not being intended to see force in that direction.

There are tools intended for this use that put a rounded bump on the tube. I haven't found one for reasonable cost yet though. The result looks like the OEM lines I've seen. And at the moment I'm having a brain fart and can't remember what they are called. Too much :beer: last night. :flipoff2:

About priming, do fuel pumps need to be primed? I hadn't considered that.