Who sells the return to center double throws that were used on that 6x6 TJ? I was told it was someone on the board but the name I was given doesn't exist. Does anyone know??:confused:

<cstapley@jam.rr.com>

try this board name: Station

was going to suggest ya station too.. talk to him.. hes cool guy..

I did the return setup on the 6x6 TJ.
John

Is it allright if I gave you a call and got some info and maybe get some stuff ordered????

give my cell a call now if you want.

I never realized that the ram had anything to do with return to center

the ram would be normal the electrics and stuff will make it return to centre right?:confused:

i think the valve and caster make the wheel return to center

The ram doesn't have anything to do with "return to center" it's a fuction of the valve.

And "return to center" is a bit of a mis-nomer....it's actually called a "load reactive" function of the valve. They come in load reactive and non-load reactive. As the name implies, the load reactive type allows a load on the steered wheels to be transmitted back to the operator conrols, and this can give you some "return to center" effect because the axles caster will impose a "load" when te wheels are steered, tending to cause them to "return to center".

I know all this just from having talked to Station (Sean Stapley) who has spent ages explaining stuff to me, even when I wasn't buying. Great guy, very knowledgable, and the best products and prices. HIGHLY recommended....you can't do better.

PS - don't cunfuse load reactive with load sensing....load sensing has to do with multiple hydraulic equipment (like a bucket on an excavater) and is so that the steering receives priority so you don;t lose steering when lifting the bucket etc. Not something you need / want for 4x4 steering.

What's wrong with turning around and looking at it :confused:




:flipoff2:

Originally posted by BillaVista


PS - don't cunfuse load reactive with load sensing....load sensing has to do with multiple hydraulic equipment (like a bucket on an excavater) and is so that the steering receives priority so you don;t lose steering when lifting the bucket etc. Not something you need / want for 4x4 steering.

Sounds like that could come in handy for using a hydrolic winch so you dont loose your steering while winching...

Sounds like that could come in handy for using a hydrolic winch so you dont loose your steering while winching...

You're right, if you put a homebrew system together. But I believe the commonly available Hydro winchs (Milemarker etc,) incorporate their own valving to accomplish this, as they are designed to be run off regular power steering - I think they advertise that the steering always has priority.

lets straighten this out. On the rear steer, the hydro ram has nothing to do with the returning nor does the caster, (if you used the caster to bring it back to center it would not work on a side hill or when your stoped) (also the rear system has nothing to do with load reactive valving) the key to the system is the sensing ram that piggy backs the hydro ram. On a basic kit the sensing ram will only have two sensors on it and only three wires running to it. I know the wiring on the 6x6 tj was a little extream but it was because the customer wanted alot of automatic and extra functions which acounted for making the harness like ten times more complcated. all the sensors do is determin which direction the wheels are turned, and through the circuitry will tell the electric valver which direction to bring it back. when it is at center neither sensor is reading anything and it will shut off the valve. One nice thing about this method is it keeps the actual sensors out of harms way, water, dirt, mud, wont hurt it and it will have to be a big rock and a hell of a hit to damage it, but even if you somehow did manage to bend the 3/4" chrome shaft it is nothing to put another one in. the sensing ram is intended to be run like half full of oil to prevent it from efer siezing up in case water or moisture would ever get in it. all the wiring in the kits will now be 3 conductor cable in heavy sheathing and will be using weather pak conectors. the kit does include a micro chip that is used for the return to center that is fully water proof and warrentied, the joystick is just a simple stick about 4" tall with a black knob on it. In refuring to the 6x6 tj the customer wanted a elaborate add on handle. that added like an extra 20 or so wires that in volved a ton of relays and extra wiring. now on the basic setup the return to center is activated by a simple momentary push button. So in cab the controls will be very simple, a joystick, a push buton, and an optional arm/disarm rocker switch. This whole system is very modular in that their is alot that can be added to do what ever you want to do. In working with station we have incorporated an option that can have the rear controled by the wheel at times in two differant modes circle and crab steer, with joystick over ride. their is allot of things that can be added. I am curently working on getting all the info together with some good pics to send people when they ask about it. also keep in mind that I only use hydro rams from station, and that he has been a big influence on this kit development. The kit starts at 1600$ keep in mind that the cost is due to alot of expensive parts, and is "comlete" with the exception of the hoses. (due to fact that they will be differant for every one it is not practical to try and include them) I am curently re working the sensing ram to make it more compact and easier to install. Do keep in mind that this is still a new product and it is still getting little things up graded on every order till it is perfected.
I hope this answers any questions and straightens out any confusion on the system. I hope no one getts pissed at me for writing it out like this.
thanks,
John

joystick

How much would a setup like that run ?

As I described it above is 1600$.
feel free to give me a call on any questions about it.
John

Whats used for the pump?

damnit!!!! I need REAR STEER!!!!

Lee, if you buy this shiat, i'll be really pissed off!!!

Alright what about a simple side to side joystick? What about any other more simple ways to make it to return to center like a spring loaded joystick.

Kudos to you John.......that looks like a badass kit you're putting together:D I wish I could afford rear steer. Hopefully next year!!

John,

Sorry if I mudied the waters...I jumped right in not knowing it was rear steer return to center that was being discussed. That stuff is so cool BTW!

Broncorob - the joystick looks exactly like an arcade control joystick available from

http://www.happcontrols.com

Thay have many differnt types from 2 way, 4way, 8 way, flight stick etc.

I've used them to build arcade video game controlers (for those that simply must have the original feel when playing pac man or Galaga :D ) They're very rugged - think of the abuse your average arcade game must withstand...way more than you'll subject your rig too. I DO NOT mean to imply this is the product John uses- just passing on some info.

OK, I am getting here pretty late, and a lot has already been explained, and discussed.

The steering cylinders (rams if that's what you like) have nothing to do with getting the steering to return to center. Although the ram that you use will have some effect on the way that the steering centers.

I could not tell if you were interested in front or rear steering with your question.

The load reactive orbitrol valve and the steering geometry that effects it was already explained very well by Billavista. I will just go over that again.
The way the front steering reacts is controlled by the hydraulic orbitrol valve. If you want the front steering to have some feel through the steering wheel, then you need to get a load reactive orbitrol valve. Depending on the castor of your front axle, the valve will allow the force generated by by the castor when moving forward to straighten out the front wheels.

If you were asking about rear steering, and you want push button automatic recentering , then Johns351C has already explained that to you. This system is very complicated, and John has the electronics figured out. He even makes his own microchips to control it.

broncorob...
No a spring loaded joystick will not work to center the rear steering. All of the joysticks that you will find are spring loaded and automatically center themselves. The position of the stick has nothing to do with the position of the rear axle, only the speed and direction in which it steers when you are using it.

PYRO.....
You can either use an 12v electric pump, or use an engine driven pump/pumps. It all depends on how you want the system to work, and what options you are looking for.

Sean

What's the deal with that position sensor? Is it just open/closed switches or do they give a resistance value like a throttle position sensor would?

man wooosh over my head :eek: