I want to do full hydro steering on my mog (manual steering sucks!!!) and i already have the char-lynn orbital valve. What i am wondering is if i could get an electric motor, like the ones used for electric water pumps and run a saginaw pump or some kind of pump so that if my engine died i would still have power steering. The valve will let me have steering when the engine is off, so if the electric motor died i could still steer. TIA

what about the pump from a lift gate on the back of a truck?

Not really sure how one of those work or where to find one? I will need a motor with a 100% duty cycle too, that's why i was thinking of the water pump motor, but i'm open to suggestions. Also, the motor i am looking at spins at 1500 rpm, will this be enough or do i need something faster?

try a pump for a dump truck. Lots of auto trucks with a dump run the electric set up. I think if it could lift 6 tons it ought to be altright for strring.

Toddy

You will not find a cheap hydraulic pump that will do what you are wanting.
I have the specs for a pump that will do what you are wanting.

It costs $1500.

The problem with 12/24 volt pumps is the amperage that it is going to take to make enough flow/pressure.

To make 1500psi at 2gpm at 12 volts it takes a constant flow of about 150 amps. Do you have an electric system that can handle that much amperage draw?

Either way, I do not reccomend you go with an electric pump as your main power source for power steering. You could get a really cheap power unit that would be able to handle the duty as backup pump, only for when engine driven power wasn't available.

Sean

Sorry, i guess my post is a little misleading, what i am talking about is using a small electric motor with a pulley to spin a regular power steering pump, like this:

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=6855&prmenbr=361

Still not sure if this will be up to the task, but it would be like spinning a saginaw pump with the engine at 1500 rpm right? That should be fast enough since you normally only rockcrawl at 1000 rpm or less, so this would actually be spinning faster than a regular pump. All i need to know is if this motor will be able to handle spinning a power steering pump?

that motor could never do it, i was thinking rear steer for the other pump i was talking about. you better figure how to run a saginaw pump off your motor.

ok, just thought i'd ask. Shouldn't be too hard to run it off the motor. :D

Nope, your still in the same ball game. It soesn't matter if you are spiining a Saginaw, or the pump built into a power unit. To be able to put out a given ammount of flow/pressure + power loss due to friction, you need a given ammount of energy. The ammount of energy (which is electrical energy in this discussion) is very high. Electric motors that can make that much power with a constant duty cycle are very expensive. And require electrical systems that can provide ALLOT of power to them.


The actual pump part of the electric power untit that I mentioned(which costs $1500) probably only ammounts to about $150 of the price of the power unit. The motor is the most expensive part.

Sean

I saw someone post something about a stock older subaru that used a 100% duty cycle electric motor for it powere steering.

I think it was in the "how to improve milemarker speeds" thread.

Originally posted by Lowrangerider
I saw someone post something about a stock older subaru that used a 100% duty cycle electric motor for it powere steering.

I think it was in the "how to improve milemarker speeds" thread.
this was off the 4 wheel steer japanese vehicles from like the mid 80s thing?

will one of them work station?

well iv'e been waiting to see how long this little secret would stay a secret :D the subaru electric/hydraulic pump will work great! my friend who told me about this idea uses it w/ 44" tsl's bolted to rockwells on a leaf sprung rear steer setup. i do not have pics at this time, but basically he just hits a dash mounted switch and they turn even at low pressure! :D with this setup he is able to turn opposite the front (for tight turn radius) or same direction (manuevarbility?) anyway it works fawking great!!!!!
worley

I still have not seen one of these electric pumps used in the foreign cars. I have heard people on here talk about them, and what they have said is all that I know about them.

I am willing to bet though, that they are very low ouput pumps. The cars that they came from only steered the rear wheels a few degrees while moving with some speed on pavement.
I would have to see how these steering systems worked on these cars, or play with one of these pumps to give any real opinions. The next time I am near a foreign car junkyard, I will try to find one of these cars.

Does anyone here know which models specifically had these pumps for the rear steer?
I know that Some Honda Preludes had rear steering, some Nissan 300Z's had rear steering, some Mitsubishi sports car had rear steering. I know nothing about Subaru's.

If anyone can give me some specifics on which car to look for I would appreciate it. I will go find one of these cars, and give the board a report back on my findings.

Sean

I dont know what cars to find them on but it is subaru. I have seen the set up Whorley is talking about on the rear. It is slow and would not work in the front for steering. I would be willing to say it will burn up th elittle pump in the front due to all the turning it would have to do. I will check with kenny and see if I can get a model or yeart for the pumps.

Toddy

Station,

Try around an 87-90 Honda Prelude. I think that's what my buddy had incollege, and it had rear steer.

What do the new GM quadrasteer trucks use?

Originally posted by Station
If anyone can give me some specifics on which car to look for I would appreciate it. I will go find one of these cars, and give the board a report back on my findings.
Sean

The pump you are talking about came on a late 80's, early 90's Subaru XT-6 and it is the main power steering pump, not for steering the rear end. It is mounted on the firewall and supposedly puts out the same pressure as a Saginaw, but we have yet to put a guage on it.

I know another guy that uses one on a Samurai with a Toyota box and it works fine.


Originally posted by AGGIE_04
I want to do full hydro steering on my mog (manual steering sucks!!!) and i already have the char-lynn orbital valve. What i am wondering is if i could get an electric motor, like the ones used for electric water pumps and run a saginaw pump or some kind of pump so that if my engine died i would still have power steering. The valve will let me have steering when the engine is off, so if the electric motor died i could still steer. TIA

As far as this goes, you will still have steering even if your engine dies. It is the same as regular power steering without power assist. I just pulled a buddy of mine with full hydro, that broke his distributor, about 5 miles out of the woods and he had steering the whole time.

yes todd you are correct it would be good for rear only. but my point is the subarus use this setup as the primary steering up front! i don't think these cars are 4 wheel steer, just 4 wheel drive. i'm pretty sure of that! (my ex used to have one). anyway subaru did'nt have the room to mount a belt-driven power steering pump on a flat-four motor so they used a electric/hydraulic pump. you will have to talk to ken about pressures and volumes though :confused:

station: the hondas you are referring too do utilize a rear steer, but just like you said just a few degrees at speed! i think they are rack and pinion too!

I seem to recall the Toyota MR2 also used an electric power steering pump.

Didn't the Pontiac Fiero also use a electric power steering pump?

On the Nissan HICAS (rear steer) they used a convential engine driven pump.

Tom :usa:

My wife has a lexus 470 with adjustable ride height. It works with a hydro/electric pump with a atached 2qt fluid holding tank. Im not shure if the volume would be enough for this application. It is a compact and quiet unit.

Dan

Electric motor and hyd pump for steering are very common on electric forkinglifts.
Most are 24 36 or 48 volt.
Some use a on-demand system to turn the pump/motor off when not needed to save battery.

I am pretty sure the amperage draw would make it tough to use on anything other than a rock racer.

You would add quite a bit of weight in pump/motor and batterys.

Good luck
K.

:usa:

Main steering pump size on a little Suby XT-6 is bit less than a unimog. Just a little...
Ken

Rockauto.com as well as partsamerica.com list the PS pump for the subaru xt6, but it's gonna cost over $250 and you;ve gotta eat the core charge too. I'm a little wary about buying it and not making it work. But, I guess you could just walk into advance autoparts and have them order it(they deal partsamerica stuff). Then if it's wrong or you can't figure it out, just take it back to the store.

I've had an XT6 pump sitting around for years, never got around to installing it on something... some of the VW Rally car drivers were useing them as the the stock pump was low mounted and vulnerable to being torn off. Not to mention the XT6 assembly comes with a little computer that will vary the speed of the pump. On the Suby it used road speed (maybe other inputs) to adjust the flow, obviously much less assist is required at higher speeds.

I never got around to obtaining the wire schematics... it would be neat to wire extra assist to come on when the t-case is shited into low range, maybe just a knob on the dash to adjust it, or a switch, as mentioned above.

One thing to mention, the early units had problems with the piece that adjusts voltage/amperage to the pump motor, not a problem if you plan to bypass it. Some of the units also came with a 12V heating unit that wraps the entire reservoir - simlar to those orange stick on oil pan heater pads. Obviously cold fluid was causing some type of problem for the pump or control unit.

They are available at many yards for under $100, I got mine for under $50, If I remeber right. A little internal tweaking and a larger reservoir could make it a nice performer.

Brian

my friends peugeot 106 gti has electric power steering pump.
:p

Cool on the subaru pump stuff, not that i need one but still cool...

I have seen a few drag cars running a moroso type waterpump "motor" mounted on the fender well. About 12 years ago in HS we fabed up the brackets to mount it all on the fender well. It ran a v-belt with ONLY the stock power steering pump and allowed for some minimal adjustment. It was ford 460 ( think) in a mid-80s mustang that was a shoe horn deal. He did drive it on the street cant speek for long term results....

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new chev trucks with the rear steer. Granted its a rack but the ability to turn a D60 rear loaded + possible toung weight, might lead to a creative solution down the road.....

L8r -yag

I've been watching those Chevy truck commercials pretty close
in regards to that rear-steer set-up...

but then, how many 2003 model wrecked chevy trucks can expect to find in a yard? none...

and so the search continues along the avenues for the
crappy Peugeots, the older subaru's, and possibly MR2's
and fiero's.........

--I myself have been wondering about running dual remote-
resevoir sag pumps on my tpi motor...

you add alot of use when:

power front steering.

hydro-assit front steering.

hydroboost brakes.

full hydro rear steer.

small cylinders to "lock" the rear inline for street use.

that's (5) uses.......... waaaaay too much for 1 pump to

handle..............

looks like I'm making a trip to PnP soon to scout for

these "electric-powered steering pumps!"

--Sherpa

I saw a sami running one of the Subaru pumps at Barret and it turned big meats easily...I fell in love...I tried to get one but they were hard to find and really expensive at wreckers in Rancho...about $500, $1200 new:eek:

There are a dozen+ units on car-part.com right now, they range from a nice $40 all the way up to $695!! What are some yards thinking? Several units are less than $100 - hurry, before they are gone.

Brian

Originally posted by Bjowett
There are a dozen+ units on car-part.com right now, they range from a nice $40 all the way up to $695!! What are some yards thinking? Several units are less than $100 - hurry, before they are gone.

Brian

post a link or what you searched for

car-part (http://www.car-part.com) run a seach for a Subaru XT, any year 88 - 90, PS pump, 6 cylinder.

Originally posted by Bjowett
car-part (http://www.car-part.com) run a seach for a Subaru XT, any year 88 - 90, PS pump, 6 cylinder.

Thanks man

Crap! This thread died too soon... somebody should have finished their built and completed testing by now!

So, what were the results? Anyone?

zn