I'll post any new information I get as recieved. For now, I talked to PG&E a few days ago and was told Fordyce Lake was at 30k acre feet of water out of a possible 49K. The present flow rate should continue until the lake starts to spill. There is no way to estimate when that will happen. It'll depends on the weather. How much more rain and snow we get and how warm it gets how quickly.

I was told however that once the lake spills the flow will go up and because of the amount of snow, most likely stay high since there will be massive run off. It doesn't sound promising for moderate flows that will make crossing the river a safe proposition.

So we'll see how it goes and keep reminding everyone not to undertake unneccessary risks while enjoying the trail this year.

top down ;) sooooo far though.

top down ;) sooooo far though.

Phil do you remember the thaw of 94/95 from the meadow side.......

YIKES


Hey BTW let your buddy know that 5.0 we picked up right before KOH for my buddy runs like a swiss watch has 2 injectors that hung up but what the heck thats an easy fix. he's real happy with the engine in his bronco buggy

Phil do you remember the thaw of 94/95 from the meadow side.......

YIKES


Hey BTW let your buddy know that 5.0 we picked up right before KOH for my buddy runs like a swiss watch has 2 injectors that hung up but what the heck thats an easy fix. he's real happy with the engine in his bronco buggy

Glad to hear it! That was a :smokin: deal... Does he have any pics of the rig? I'd like to see it.

Its odd to me that they usually release basically zero all spring until it overflows and then jump way up to 400+ instead of letting some out the entire time and evening it out. Especially years like this when they know they've got way more than enough snow waiting to melt, and then they end up having big flows most of the summer. :confused:
This early summer the river is going to be huge once they open the valve AND all the additional snow is still melting. Trail is basically going to be unusable/unsafe for most for quite a while it seems like.

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/yir.063.png

I agree Erik! It would be nice if they thought of it like that. But I can also see why they do it. Their goal is a full lake.

I don't know what they are bound to, but the recent Upper American River Project relicensing gave a real eye into how many rules, regulations, and interested parties that the utilities have to please in order to run their lakes, outflows, and etc. It might take some research, but I'd bet that PG&E has pretty strict guidelines to meet...

Once these guidelines are identified, it might be possible to identify the process/timeline for making change... and then work that process.

Randii

I don't think PG&E take recreation into consideration when deciding on release figures. Not to say the are anti-recreation it's just that their main concern is the most efficient generation of power and maximum use of water resources. I've talked to them about it and they understand there are multiple uses down river from the lake but can't tailor release to those concerns. We're probably Cal 4x4 has enough pull to get it turned down for Trek each year.

Well they did bump it up the last couple years to 400 so they could do the work on the damn. the years before that it wasnt raised up that high. Just glad we havent heard anything about damn work this year. Might actually have a decent wheelable summer up there!

Anyone seen the washout on rattlesnake road on the way into the lake? the road passable or they going to be getting it opened back up?

how fast is to fast? seems to me I've crossed anytime below 300 and driver beware over that but its been a minute or too since I even gave it some thought and may not be remembering too clearly. :shaking:

I've crossed at 350 one time trying to get back to fordyce lake at night, and my 42's were completely gone, water up to my nipples... Real Scary... Not worth it..

Well they did bump it up the last couple years to 400 so they could do the work on the damn. the years before that it wasnt raised up that high. Just glad we havent heard anything about damn work this year. Might actually have a decent wheelable summer up there!

Anyone seen the washout on rattlesnake road on the way into the lake? the road passable or they going to be getting it opened back up?

I haven't heard anything about it being repaired but I'd be surprised if the road up to the lake is passable before several weeks (a month?) There must be a ton of snow up there.

I've crossed at 350 one time trying to get back to fordyce lake at night, and my 42's were completely gone, water up to my nipples... Real Scary... Not worth it..

I've crossed at...well we won't go there. I won't do it again unless it's a dire emergency. I installed a snorkle into the cab just in case but I hope I never have to test it.

Let's just say that unless you know the lines and your rig's capability don't chance it. Unsure? Turn back. I stayed an extra night to wait for the thaw to slow during the night so I could cross safely.

Well according to Dreamflows Fordyce release is up at about 345 cfs.:mad3:


Won't be long before we can reach the water crossings so be careful!!

peaked over 500, now settling in to about 480.

peaked over 500, now settling in to about 480.

Whoo Hoo the Thaw has started

And that's measured near the dam. I'm sure its far higher down river with all the melting going on...

I've talked to them about it and they understand there are multiple uses down river from the lake but can't tailor release to those concerns. We're probably Cal 4x4 has enough pull to get it turned down for Trek each year.

The "pull" CA4WDC has is they $pay$ to have the flow reduced. The story I have heard is PG&E reduced the flow at no charge for many years until PG&E realized they could get some money from CA4WDC. Not saying that is good or bad thing.

WOW!

575!:eek:

Ripping!! the waterfall camp spot must be quite the site, if it's not under water

The "pull" CA4WDC has is they $pay$ to have the flow reduced. The story I have heard is PG&E reduced the flow at no charge for many years until PG&E realized they could get some money from CA4WDC. Not saying that is good or bad thing.
Cool story, but that's mythology.

CA4WDC's 'pull' comes from doing the work to reclaim the old mining road from where it lay abandoned and nearly forgotten. Cal4 worked with public and private property owners to permit passage, and synched with the dam-keepers to reduce flows for the event, but as far as I know, no money changed hands for the latter. I can tell you for certain that it ain't in my event budget!

Randii
Randy Burleson
Sierra Trek 2011 Chairman

Wait...what!?

750!!

I didn't even know it could go that high. I would sure like to see some of the spots along the trail at those numbers. It must be spectacular.

We need a member with a Chopper :D

Went out on Snowmobiles yesterday from Jackson Meadows rd, Snow line to Webber lake turn-off. Looks like mid winter out there... we brought skis and boards and took 3 runs each. Gonna be a while...My crawler is getting bored out in Prosser.

Over 900cfs. Now that's a heavy flow day.

We drove by Cisco/Eagle exits yesterday on our way to Tahoe City.

I've never seen a river flowing like the one right next to the highway just before the exits. I can only imagine what the crossings are like.

We drove by Cisco/Eagle exits yesterday on our way to Tahoe City.

I've never seen a river flowing like the one right next to the highway just before the exits. I can only imagine what the crossings are like.

Did you go all that way with out a camera?

No but I had a hungry wife & kids who were asking (every 20 minutes) "Are we there yet?".

no but i had a hungry wife & kids who were asking (every 20 minutes) "are we there yet?".

lol!

This chart should show it well. http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/yir.063.php

Talked to PG&E and here's the scoop. Keep in mind that these are all based on estimates of water and snow pack and it all depends on the weather as well.

Currently the lake is full (49k acre feet) and is spilling at around 1000 cfs. Only 47 cfs of that is out of the low release point (the pipe.) The rest is all going down the spillway. By the way the maximum the pipe can release is 500 cfs depending on how full the lake is.

They estimate there is around 75k acre feet sitting up there in the mountains. They intend to spill 45k of it. The current flow will continue most likely through at least through mid July. It could be longer or not. If it stays cooler and the snow doesn't melt as fast the water won't be released as quickly and the flow will have to go on longer. The way I understood it they will lower the lake to make room for the runoff then reduce the flow to 150 cfs, let it fill back up and then raise the flow again to spill the rest of the water.

That's the closest we are going to get to a projection. I assume the 150 cfs will continue for a while but it depends on how low the lake is when they start to refill it. It should be kind of low if they spill 45k and there's a total of 75k. That would leave 30k to put in the lake and that would be less than half full. Aside from Trek when the water is turned down (hopefully) the wheeling season at anything resonable in terms of managable river crossing may be really short this year.

whoa, says 1019cfs on dreamflows right now. I'd bet that the lines at all the crossings have moved around more than a little bit after this.

Yes I would not go diving in later assuming you know where the holes are.:D

If I have 33's and a snorkle would it be safe to cross at 1100cfs :grinpimp: I had to ask because if I didn't, someone would :flipoff2:

If I have 33's and a snorkle would it be safe to cross at 1100cfs :grinpimp: I had to ask because if I didn't, someone would :flipoff2:

Like you would be able to get your rig out of the staging area.:flipoff2:

It gets scary if I leave the staging area :D

:laughing:

Anyone have the vid of the POR trip back in 98 or so when the river was flowing in the high 400s? I remember rigs floating downstream...

Paul

Anyone have the vid of the POR trip back in 98 or so when the river was flowing in the high 400s? I remember rigs floating downstream...

Paul

best for that to remain out of sight and mind for publicity sake imho

doh :homer:

We drove by Cisco/Eagle exits yesterday on our way to Tahoe City.

I've never seen a river flowing like the one right next to the highway just before the exits. I can only imagine what the crossings are like.

Did you go all that way with out a camera?

Heres a picture for you. I took this 6/14/11
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/connor0770/Jeepin/Fordyce%206-14-11/3baf0780.jpg

Nice flow

Any updates on the flows ?
On the upper Sac (Dunsmuir,it's 200' from my house) we are still getting "spring" runoff :eek:

Seems like the fourth is out of the question,at least heading in from the south....

1320cfs and no end in site!!!!!!

Thanx Robert,looks like the other R trail then:D

Make that about 1575cfs as of 6:45am today :eek:

Make that about 1575cfs as of 6:45am today :eek:

I am going to say we hit 1700 before it's done. (total guess)

I am going to say we hit 1700 before it's done. (total guess)

That’s crazy even thinking about it that high! :eek:

I just want to wheel the trail :(

Maybe I'll just sell the rig and get a kayak! Who's with me? :laughing:

That’s crazy even thinking about it that high! :eek:

I just want to wheel the trail :(

Maybe I'll just sell the rig and get a kayak! Who's with me? :laughing:

Would have to be a well built kayak. :flipoff2:

I'm there!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/BarrettLake0910/P1000129.jpg

http://photoshopcontest.com/images/large/kl4g38a8ctm8vgcmiyh2b151haeakecjc60x.jpg

http://photoshopcontest.com/images/large/kl4g38a8ctm8vgcmiyh2b151haeakecjc60x.jpg


OMG! I spilled my coffee and I almost fell out of my chair....


BLAHHAHHAHAHAHA~!!!!! :flipoff2:

Just got to cisco parking lot. Talked with the store work and was told that rattlesnake is closed off about a mile up from here. Also the $5 trial is available to run, but nobody has tried this year. Oh and if your planning on parking at cisco stay I'm the slow lane at blue cayon, if your goin straight to eagle lakes then stay in the fast lane. Trust me on that!

Jason

Oh and if your planning on parking at cisco stay I'm the slow lane at blue cayon, if your goin straight to eagle lakes then stay in the fast lane. Trust me on that!

Jason

Can you add some detail as to why?

Road work starting at blue canyon. If you stay in the fast lane and want to get off at cisco you have to cut 2 lanes of freeway truck traffic to make the cisco exit. It was sketchy in my rig and with a trailer it would have been much worse.

Thanks for the heads up....

I'm in Sacto now (In N Out).

Our Club (WeBilt) will be camping @ Cisco all weekend.

Snow in the Sierra's forecasted for this Weds :shaking:

Pix from yesterday....

First Water Crossing:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0487.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0488.jpg

Slide Area:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0481.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0482.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0498.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0499.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/Family%20Camping%2062011/IMG_0500.jpg

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php

2700 cfs wednesday night :eek:

whoa! should I order rockwells or start saving for a helicopter??

Good work keeping the pooch on the leash that close to the water... a moment's inattention (mine) yesterday on Rubicon and I almost had to go wading/swimming after Turbo in the creek 200 yards uphill of the Tahoe staging area. It was moving too fast for him and he's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I got a hand on him quick and it was a question of gravity/balance whether we were both going downstream.

Who woulda ever thought I was 'balanced?'

Randii

350 Today!

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php

Anybody got an idea of when they are going to crank the flow back up or predictions of what it will be when they do?

Edit: Just saw this. Reliable info? http://www.dreamflows.com/forums/viewTopic.php?topic=879

thats the bible, unless you know someone working the valve!

Yep, water's back up. Be careful!!!

Yep back up into the 300's. I'm sure it will be there for a while. I have never seen Fordyce lake as high as it is now this time of year.

thats the bible, unless you know someone working the valve!
I talked to the guys working the valve as I was closing out Sierra Trek at Meadow Lake on Monday... their helicopter was hard to miss. They dropped notes to the few folks on the trail, and turned the water up... Dreamflows is right on.

Randii
Randy Burleson
Sierra Trek Chair, 2011

What is the general feeling concerning flow rates and being crossable?
I have a brother coming up from Wyoming the last weekend in august and he would like to do fordyce
Our rigs are the typical TJs on 35s

I crossed early in sept 09 with a different group and it seems like the flow rates were pushing 300 then, pretty fast and scary. My TJ has 5 1/2" of lift and 37s and water was coming in the door a little. Thats about all I have to go off of

thanks for your non-sarcastic input

I am curious as well in low toy with 37's, I am about 26" to the frame. I haven't been back to first crossing since late June early July.

The flow is up at 350 right now and if it stays that way your rigs will get pushed all over and there is a good chance they will drown out. This is committee at 350. My rig is on 42's, weighs in at over 5000 lbs and it got pushed around a lot. Want to chance it on 35's?

PG&E told me flows would be up until mid September. I'm going to call for an update and will post any new info I get here.

crossings 1, 2 and for sure 3 are probably doable with a rig tall enough on 37s but i wouldn't chance it on committee. a few weeks ago when our group went through at about 300 it was nuts and we had some serious carnage. have your intake up high.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/wheelingtrips/DSC02485.jpg

I'm in a light weight <3000 lbs Sami 23" to bottom of frame on 37's and I will not cross above 200. It's just not worth it to me.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q252/woodytoyota/Samurai%20phase%204/WP_000153.jpg

The flow is up at 350 right now and if it stays that way your rigs will get pushed all over and there is a good chance they will drown out. This is committee at 350. My rig is on 42's, weighs in at over 5000 lbs and it got pushed around a lot. Want to chance it on 35's?

is "commitee" the crossing that takes the short cut out past the lake to the hwy?

is "commitee" the crossing that takes the short cut out past the lake to the hwy?

Yep

Yep

So.... if we run the whole trail we can actually by-pass the committe river crossing then, correct?

The unfortunate aspect of this is I have only ran from the staging area, crossed commitee and up the gate keeper there and out to cisco. I dont know the rest of the trail. Daggum I want to run the whole trail one of these days. I got sh it to break on my junk

So.... if we run the whole trail we can actually by-pass the committe river crossing then, correct?

The unfortunate aspect of this is I have only ran from the staging area, crossed commitee and up the gate keeper there and out to cisco. I dont know the rest of the trail. Daggum I want to run the whole trail one of these days. I got sh it to break on my junk

yes that is correct, you do not need to cross the committee crossing unless you want to exit the trail, if you want to run from eagles lake all the way to meadow you dont need to cross at committee.


will be heading in through committee tuesday morning :grinpimp:

crossings 1, 2 and for sure 3 are probably doable with a rig tall enough on 37s but i wouldn't chance it on committee. a few weeks ago when our group went through at about 300 it was nuts and we had some serious carnage. have your intake up high.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/wheelingtrips/DSC02485.jpg

Was up there that weekend and watched you guys cross saturday night. That sure was fun. Pretty much every one of you took the deepest line you could have taken across commitee. Sure sucks crossing it at night not being able to see where the rocks and holes are and only haveing the rig in front of you to base your path off of dosnt it! lol Sure was fun watching though. how many had to be towed out? about 5 or so?

Let's get this straight. 350 cfs is 350 no matter which crossing you're talking about with the possible exception of 3. It's a lot of water coming down the river. They are all bad at that flow. As Blue Devil Toyota said he's not crossing above 200 which is a smart thing and even that's high for a stockish rig. We've had a good year with no problems. Let's not mess it up now.

yes that is correct, you do not need to cross the committee crossing unless you want to exit the trail, if you want to run from eagles lake all the way to meadow you dont need to cross at committee.


will be heading in through committee tuesday morning :grinpimp:

Id be very interested to hear how that goes

i'm not advocating for people to cross at 350. your right tinman that 350 is a lot of flow no matter what crossing it is. i will say that there is a significant difference of difficulty in crossing committee compared to the first 3. that weekend the first crossings were pretty easy but committee was not at the same flow. being we all crossed at night didn't help.

out of 9 rigs 3 had to be towed out. one because his motor was seized and 2 blew up driveshafts on a boulder in the water. the line on that crossing is important. i don't recommend crossing committee at night for sure. it was alot of work winching 3 rigs out of the river and dangerous.

in this link a member says Fordyce Creek was turned down yesterday for Sierra Trek. It will be turned up on Aug 15 and will be at 350 cfs through Aug 21, when it will be turned down

http://www.dreamflows.com/forums/viewTopic.php?topic=879

its going to be turned down on the 21st? does anyone know where this information is coming from? pick up the phone and call pg&e?

in this link a member says
http://www.dreamflows.com/forums/viewTopic.php?topic=879
its going to be turned down on the 21st? does anyone know where this information is coming from? pick up the phone and call pg&e?
The information in that post is incorrect. PG&E turned the water down on August 8th and back up on August 15th -- I negotiated this with them and verified it by phone, and met with their contractors on the Meadow Lake dam after they turned the flow back up on the 15th.

The dreamflows numerical information (not the BBS) ia the best place to get flow information, and calling PG&E isn't a great idea, even if you do know exactly who to call. They're pretty busy with FERC relicensing, these days!

Randii
Randy Burleson
Sierra Trek Chaire, 2011

The information in that post is incorrect. PG&E turned the water down on August 8th and back up on August 15th -- I negotiated this with them and verified it by phone, and met with their contractors on the Meadow Lake dam after they turned the flow back up on the 15th.

The dreamflows numerical information (not the BBS) ia the best place to get flow information, and calling PG&E isn't a great idea, even if you do know exactly who to call. They're pretty busy with FERC relicensing, these days!

Randii
Randy Burleson
Sierra Trek Chaire, 2011

the first part of the post says turned down on the 8th (yesterday, the post being on the 9th)and back up on the 15th how is that incorrect? you mean the part about it being turned down after the 21st is incorrect?

The part I quoted was the part I responded to... hope that helps.

Randii

thanks for clarifying randii

The water is deep and fast right now. Myself and one other rig went from Indian springs to meadow yesterday in about 8hrs. X-1 and 2 will get you wet. Do not attempt these to cross unless you are skilled and familiar with them.
We are goin to attempt to go out committee later today.

Oh, I'm in a toy on 36 and 28" or so to my slider. My lap got wet. BE CAREFUL

I think that Regaurdless of flow, comitee is going to be the worst one because of hom narrow it is, the first crossing at 300 is less than three feet deep and comitee at the same flow will easily swallow my 38.5s I'd say it is at least 6-8 inches deeper

a group is planning on heading there this weekend, smallest tire is 37's. Dream flows seems to say its at 250 right now, any input?

a group is planning on heading there this weekend, smallest tire is 37's. Dream flows seems to say its at 250 right now, any input?

Yeah! Finish your truck and come with us.

got laid off So i may have a chance to work on it, but Tyler is using my trailer. Doesnt Pete have 33's?? need an accurate flow rate

Pete is on 36" tsls. He's been through it last year but the flow was low. It's showing mid hundreds for flow right now.

the tire size isn't nearly as important as how heavy your rig is, how waterproof your ignition system is and the height of the air intake. I'd spend some time on this before trying committee, lots of stuff can get wet but you're not totally screwed till the engine stops running.

I can say from experience that crossing at night isnt the best idea either.

The information in that post is incorrect. PG&E turned the water down on August 8th and back up on August 15th -- I negotiated this with them and verified it by phone, and met with their contractors on the Meadow Lake dam after they turned the flow back up on the 15th.

The dreamflows numerical information (not the BBS) ia the best place to get flow information, and calling PG&E isn't a great idea, even if you do know exactly who to call. They're pretty busy with FERC relicensing, these days!

Randii
Randy Burleson
Sierra Trek Chaire, 2011

looks like the information was actually correct, dreamflows shows that it has been lowered from roughly 350 to roughly 130.
http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php

a group is planning on heading there this weekend, smallest tire is 37's. Dream flows seems to say its at 250 right now, any input?


id say doable if you follow a good line and dont try it at night at 300 and below, its at 130 right now but you never know when their gonna turn it up or how much.

this is 300 on 8-6-11, not me or my video just a reference what a good line at committee is.
Bill & Nancy Crossing Fordyce at Comittee 300 8-6-2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMqDWnbfq2w)

and a bad line that makes everyone scared to cross, same day, same flow, same committee crossing.
Fordyce Crossing at Comittee 300cfs 8-6-2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ciQb5lp0A&feature=related)

white rhino snorkelin across fordyce at committee - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvfre850FLU)

that is at around 300 can get a lil crazy i know

the first part of the post says turned down on the 8th (yesterday, the post being on the 9th)and back up on the 15th how is that incorrect? you mean the part about it being turned down after the 21st is incorrect?


It's back down below 150....

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.png

looks like the information was actually correct, dreamflows shows that it has been lowered from roughly 350 to roughly 130.
http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php




It's back down below 150....

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.php

http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/day.063.png


yep i know, just got back from being on the trail for 4 days only saw 1 jeep on the trail the entire time :smokin:, and the water was down the whole time.