I'd be interested to hear your take on the recent events.

There seem to be a lot of questionable actions on the part of the Marines in this process, any comments?

im not interested in anything lamar has to say. he will just try to appease us like he has in the past. he is NOT on our side!.....I know how that sounds. we should all be on the same side when it comes to our military but this whole deal just reeks to high heaven.

I definitely feel there were, and continue to be, total shenanigans from the Marines.

So here is a snapshot of problems that occurred because of the planning, or lack thereof, of the Marines in regards to the release of the DEIS document and the ability of the public to comment effectively.

1. The initial Federal Register notice, also referred to in the DEIS and linked from the Land Acquisition Study website had an incorrect date for the end of the comment period. When the DEIS was released, the public was told that the comment period ended May 26, 2011, however the comment date on the Federal Register notice was April 11, 2011. A later 'extension' was noticed in the Federal Register on May 13, 2011 that extended that comment period to May 26, 2011.

2. There was no address included on the initial Federal Register notice for mailing comments.

3. There were three subsequent public meeting held by the Marines, the correct mailing address for submitting comments was omitted from all the material given out to the public at these meetings. There was no indication to the public or notification that the address on the material, an office at 29Palms, was not the correct mailing address. There was no information given out at the meetings to indicate the correct mailing address.

4. There was no mailing address on the Land Acquisition Study website, either on the home page, or linked to the home page. The only place the correct mailing address could be found was on 1 press release, and on the 2nd Federal Register notice that announced the days and times of the public meetings. These are generally not notices that the general public either reads, or can easily reference.

5. When calling the public number for information, the message stated that the mailing address could be found on the website for mailing comments. The only address available on the website was the office at 29Palms, which was not the correct address to send public comment.

6. When attempting to hand deliver over 20,000 written comments to the correct office in San Diego, after being given numerous reassurances by Marine representatives that these would be accepted, the representative were both given the wrong address and subject to harassment when attempting to accomplish their task.

7. On the last day of the comment period, the website for submitting comments ceased to upload documents, and many commenters were not able to upload their comments, or forced to cut and paste comments to varying degrees in success. In talking with Craig Bloxham on Friday the 27th, he stated that he could tell who tried to upload comments and was unsuccessful, but when asked he was unable to determine that I had tried to upload my document for about an hour! He stated that the ability to upload a document was dependent on how many characters were contained in the address of the document, and indicated that there was a limitation of 100 characters. When I related that my document address had only 71 characters, he backtracked and admitted that he really didn't know what the limitation was, and it may have been 50, or 60, or 70 for that matter. In any case, no instructions were written on the website to indicate that there were any limitations, or tat any special instructions were needed.

8. By not supplying a simple email address the Marines made the process of submitting comments unnecessarily difficult for everyone. Generally, most people know how to email, it is the very first thing they learn to accomplish on a computer. But uploading documents through a website takes a little more computer ability, and that can make the difference between someone submitting a comment, or getting frustrated and unable or unlikely to submit their comment. This flies in the face of everything NEPA stands for, and the ability of the public to submit substantive comments.



Shenanigans:shaking:

Here's another good one for you from PRegner......


Here's what pisses me off about this situation:

The Marine Corps says they need the land so they can train an entire regiment at once.

I work at ESD (Exercise Support Division). We supply all of the equipment (tanks, trucks, artillery, crew served weapons, comm gear, etc.) for ALL units coming through Twentynine Palms for training, and we don't have nearly the equipment or personnel to support regimental-sized training operations. Additionally, to my knowledge there are no plans to expand ESD to accomodate/support regimantal-sized training ops (we're still under a strict hiring/pay freeze, and working under a tight budget).

This whole situation just plain stinks.


Shenanigans I say:shaking:

So here is a snapshot of problems that occurred because of the planning, or lack thereof, of the Marines in regards to the release of the DEIS document and the ability of the public to comment effectively.

Thats a good sumary mustard dog. There are more shananigans too -

1) The September 14 BLM notice say they would issue another federal registry notice at least 30 days before any public meeting about the withdrawl. Where is that additional notice BLM issued? Im still waiting for the BLM to let us know about the public meetings they will hold. I hope they are soon.

2) March 1 Marine Corps notice is mistitled "notice of public meetings". The title says nothing about a public comment period. People would ignore that notice if they dont care about or go to public meetings.

3) The draft EIS cover page or first page doesnt show the comment period or proper address where to send comments.

Another question:

The Marines gave an incorrect address to send our letters (hmmm a little fishy), WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE LETTERS THAT WERE SENT TO THE WRONG ADDRESS?

I am in no way in favor of the Marines taking over Johnson Valley.

I have been told by several sources that they want Johnson Valley mainly for the air space.

Again, i do not approve of this, it is just what I have been told. I point this out as it seems we are focusing most of or energy on ground troops and the damage they will do, when it will mainly be used for air space....

Thats a good sumary mustard dog.



I stole it from another thread, not sure who originally wrote it.

So here is a snapshot of problems that occurred because of the planning, or lack thereof, of the Marines in regards to the release of the DEIS document and the ability of the public to comment effectively.
- Different due dates and extension dates published in different venues
- No address included for mailing comments in the Federal Register
- Public meetings held by Marines omit the correct mailing address for comments, rather, release incorrect info
- The Land Acquisition Study website publishes an incorrect mailing address
- Responses from the public phone number reference the Land Acquisition Study website's incorrect mailing address
- Hand delivery of written comments to the correct office in San Diego were sent to another wrong address
- The website for submitting comments stopped accepting document uploads on the last day of the comment period.

Yeah, taken together, that's way too many 'coincidences.' i could see one or two, but all of those?!?!?

Shenanigans:shaking:
Ooh-rah... I guess that's psychological warfare from senior Marine leadership to John Q. Public? I'm proud of our armed forces, especially on this Memorial Day, but the way that senior Marine leadership has handled this Land Acquisition had been shameful. :(

Randii

I stole it from another thread, not sure who originally wrote it.

Amy Granat - 'Uglyjeepthing'

I'd be interested to hear your take on the recent events.

There seem to be a lot of questionable actions on the part of the Marines in this process, any comments?

Agreed, my perception of the situation is the same. The attention to details, especially as large as the comment submission address, has not been applied as Marine leadership would normally invoke. Part of the problem when you have so many links in the chain involved. IE: Naval Facilities SW, HQMC, MCAGCC 29 Palms, and numerous contractors. Who dropped the ball? Everyone involved.

I'll PM you and whenever you have a break we can get together.

im not interested in anything lamar has to say. he will just try to appease us like he has in the past. he is NOT on our side!.....

My participation in this process and on the JV boards has come from my own concern. I didn't have to post anything anywhere, I'm here as a Marine who likes to wheel and have one leg on both sides of the fence. I don't want to loose any recreational land that we don't absolutely have to but I also understand the need to train hard in a realistic setting.

I regret that you feel that I was here to appease the masses, it couldn't be farther from the truth. In March after finding out the DEIS was posted I went to ask how much input they had received and it was minimal (I understand the fatal error there now) so I got on the boards to try to raise some more awareness and get the ball rolling in the public sector, to include contacting members of SFWDA board and my old club to try and get them activated. I also wanted to dispel any myths or misinformation about the way we apply our trades, and help those that had questions about the way we do business. My hope was to provide information to the public that would assist them with the creation of substantial comments.

As far as what you think about me, in the end we're all entitled to our opinions and everyone sees things a different way.


I definitely feel there were, and continue to be, total shenanigans from the Marines.

In converstation with Amy Granat I understand the NEPA process is not something to be taken lightly and in this case there are some errors that will not have "do-overs". I'll pm you and we can hook up when ever you get a chance.

Mike

- I'm proud of our armed forces, especially on this Memorial Day, but the way that senior Marine leadership has handled this Land Acquisition had been shameful. :(



I am also proud of our armed forces. I for one am not going to whine any more about this project, at least until tomorrow. Best wishes to all on Memorial Day, a day to especially honor those Americans who died while defending our Nation and its values. At 3 p.m. today I hope you observed the universal "National Moment of Remembrance" that represents a simple and unifying way to commemorate our history and honor the struggle to protect our freedoms. If you forgot to do it at 3 p.m., then please do it at 4 or 5.

I know some have had less than favorable opinions of me but I recently got an article promoting our passion published in the Military Times that has gone out to military installations world wide that I'd like to share. The printed copy has a two additional pictures. My jeep is pictured here: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/offduty/automotive/offduty-diy-upgrades-for-4wd-062011/

I understand that some things may not be quite right and there was no mention of the expansion, that is discussed here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=987385&highlight=navy+times

See you on the trails,
Mike

I recently got an article promoting our passion published in the Military Times that has gone out to military installations world wide that I'd like to share. The printed copy has a two additional pictures.

I saw the article a few days ago. Good basic 4 wheeling mod article!

Thanks Mike.

Thanks Steve!

I know some have had less than favorable opinions of me but I recently got an article promoting our passion published in the Military Times that has gone out to military installations world wide that I'd like to share. The printed copy has a two additional pictures. My jeep is pictured here: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/offduty/automotive/offduty-diy-upgrades-for-4wd-062011/

:beer:

im not interested in anything lamar has to say. he will just try to appease us like he has in the past. he is NOT on our side!.....I know how that sounds. we should all be on the same side when it comes to our military but this whole deal just reeks to high heaven.

After reading more of Lamar's posts I realize that I may have been wrong in my assumptions. Maybe he is on OUR side....sort of. I in no way ment any disrespect. I apologize.

Vinnie

Thanks Gents.:grinpimp:

I've met Mike in person, he is the real deal who has put his neck out further than I think I would given his situation. He's been direct, honest... a wheelers wheeler. Aside from the respect he deserves as an active duty Marine, he gets my respect for also fighting for, and being a passionate about public use of public lands.

Thanks bubba.

d

Thanks Dave!